(Topic ID: 200502)

Somebody explain Bitcoin to me


By Pinballlew

2 years ago



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    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Clearly you are referencing US Gov fiat paper, correct?
    Fact: In the last 2 years, the value of U.S. fiat paper has decreased about 4%. U.S. fiat paper is regularly counterfeited. Finally, there is NO LIMIT to the amount of U.S. fiat currency being produced, therefore its value MUST decrease under the laws of supply & demand.
    Fact: In the last 2 years, the value of Bitcoin has increased roughly 7,000%. Bitcoin cannot be counterfeited. There is a finite limit to the total number of Bitcoins which can be mined. That number is 21,000,000 coins. Additionally: Unlike stocks, bitcoin can be traded in fractions. No, you cannot buy 1/100 of a share of Berkshire-Hathaway. But, you CAN buy 1/100 of a bitcoin, currently costing you about $57.63.
    Note: I own, and actively trade, Bitcoin, Ethereum & Litecoin. These are the 3 most popular of the dozens of crypto-currencies. I also use Bitcoin as a method of payment for goods & services.
    In my opinion, crypo-currencies are the future. Currently, there is a TREMENDOUS amount of short, and possibly long term upside in owning/trading cryptos.
    Again, in my opinion, stocks & fiat currencies are far too easily and frequently manipulated. Therefore, I currently have no faith in either of these financial products.

    Unfortunately this is incorrect. Bitcoin is a worldwide currency. The U.S. makes up a very tiny portion of the global crypto-coin market. It is unlikely that the entire world eventually wants a USD conversion. In fact, one of the largest trading platforms, Bitfinex, is ceasing all U.S. related trades and closing all U.S. accounts on Nov 9. In the global Bitcoin market, the U.S. is completely irrelevant. So, the reality is quite the opposite. People all over the world are trading in their fiat currencies for Bitcoin, etc. And the more businesses that accept bitcoin, and the more governments that accept bitcoin, the higher it goes.
    Supply and demand at its finest.

    Bingo!

    Jamie Dimon might as well wear a mask and carry a gun. He belongs in jail.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Ridiculous that this even exists. People need to google the whole tulip bulb crash that happened a hole back in Holland.

    Yeah...because it's exactly the same.

    #57 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    backing - I don't trust the government, do you think I'm going to trust a corporate entity to back my money?

    Explain

    #60 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    The USD is backed by the guaranteed probability that the economy will generate enough GDP to guarantee the amount of tax revenue that the US Government needs to collect. And that the Government is not constricted by a "rare" backing method to be able to grow and shrink the money supply to ensure the economy generates that revenue. It's why US Bonds are considered the safest investment in the world, the fact that guaranteed tax revenue will be used to pay off that debt. "Fiat" is a term bitcoiners or cryptos focus on to mean that the actual money is worthless and can be replaced by something, bitcoin or crypto currency, that truly is worthless. It's a completely naive belief. Running $1 trillion deficits is another story.....some day the amount of debt re-payment will be unsustainable if this continues.
    The US proved in 1933 that basing money's value on a commodity's "rareness" is a ticket to economic disaster and the variables (money supply/interest rates) need to be more controllable to steer a huge economy.

    I don't think anyone is saying Bitcoin will replace fiat currency. It will likely be just another form of currency (somewhat like gold on that front). Even though there can only be 21 million Bitcoins ever (the rarity argument) that doesn't make it a "ticket to disaster". Even if Bitcoin's value went to $1,000,000 per coin (highly unlikely) it would still be divisible down to one Satoshi with a value of one cent.

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Which part, that a company might manipulate its product to make a buck at my expense

    This part. What "company" controls Bitcoin?

    #74 2 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    The "valuable" things will be food, clean water, guns, bullets and liquor.

    Liquor?

    When you are scrounging for water food and shelter I think liquor falls right off the list.

    #75 2 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    So far, I have not been impressed by the level of understanding of Bitcoin by anyone in this thread or anyone else I have talked to in person.

    Followed by:

    Quoted from TRAMD:

    This is because I still don't understand it

    Followed by a diatribe about something you admit you don't understand.

    -1
    #88 2 years ago
    Quoted from BrianBannon:

    I don't pretend to understand cryptocurrencies, or all the explanations offered here. My question or caution would be this, normally when something is wanted or needed there is a long line of people clamoring for it. In the case of these cryptocurrencies, I see this long line on the supply side of the equation with people offering a solution in the form of cryptocurrencies, but where are all the people on the other side? I think if we see a like demand for this type of currency, say acceptance by mainstream retailers, it will be here to stay, otherwise it looks like simple speculation to me.

    These are the companies that currently accept payment via Bitcoin (as of Oct 13th):

    Bitcoin Companies.pdf

    #90 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Why did you fax that to yourself seven times before posting it?

    lol...you have to click on it to see it clearly. It's a pdf file - three pages.

    #97 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Understand, I'm not pushing cryptos. I'm not selling this stuff. I'm a buy & hold player in this market when I'm not trading for profit. If I lose my entire $15k investment. BFD.

    Exactly. No one is saying this isn't an extremely volatile market. Only throw at it what you are willing to lose. I'm with you...in for the long term (which could go to zero and I understand that risk). Blockchain is here to stay and Bitcoin itself...who knows. Looks like it's slowly getting more and more accepted as an alternate form of currency. I think it has a brite future...I could be dead wrong.

    #129 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    It's pretty straight forward to buy. I use Coinbase, but there are a bunch of different exchanges out there that will be more than happy to take your money. I chose Coinbase because it was based in the US (San Francisco) and have worked to comply with governmental agencies where required. The downside IS that they comply with governmental agencies.
    Anyway, the other option is to purchase through something like GDAX.
    https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD
    It's a little more complicated, but the fees are much lower, if not free (if you're a market maker). For your first few transactions, I'd suggest just buying through an exchange as opposed to a trading platform.
    With that said, let's assume you're going to use Coinbase. All you really need to do is create the account and make the purchase. I think you get limited to $500/week unless you give them a copy of your driver's license. Once I did that, I think they bumped me up to $25,000/week.
    Once you purchase your Bitcoin / Ethereum / Litecoin it gets stored in your wallet. From there you can do anything you want with it. You can leave it there, transfer it to a different wallet, spend it, give it away, etc.
    Keep in mind that you won't actually get anything. They aren't going to send you a piece of paper saying that you own x.xxxxxxx bitcoin. Similar to the stocks that I buy. They don't send out a certificate anymore, it's just held by my broker electronically. What you get is a public key, a private key and a wallet address.
    With that said, we need to define a few things before we move forward.
    The wallet address is like a bank account number. It's where you would send the Bitcoin if you wanted to buy my shoes or pay me for a pinball machine in bitcoin.
    The private key is mathematically related to the wallet address, but impossible to reverse engineer. This private key is what allows you to sign a transaction and prove you own the coins and prevents the transaction from being altered. This is something you want to guard very closely and never give to anyone. I don't have mine written down anywhere, nor do I keep it on my computer or anything else that's online or connected (more on this later). Keep in mind that if you have $50,000 in bitcoin, all someone needs is the private key to send it all to themselves.
    The public key is what you hand to people to during the transaction. It's derived from the private key, but once again, it's impossible to reverse engineer.
    Now that we have that out of the way, we need to talk about wallet and storage types. There are two types of storage, a hot wallet and cold storage. A hot wallet is something that you use and have online access to. In most cases the wallet is stored on the exchange. This is where you keep bitcoins that you want to use to buy coffee, a computer from Microsoft, stuff from NewEgg, or buy your neighbor's lawnmower.
    What that means is that you hold the public key and the exchange holds the private key. This is how it's dangerous. If the exchange gets hacked and someone gets your private key, game over. All your stuff is gone. It has happened to exchanges over the years, which is why I don't keep much in a hot wallet.
    Cold storage is the exact opposite. It's not intended to be used for day-to-day transactions. It's an offline storage repository that has no connection to the Internet. It's quick to move Bitcoin from cold storage to a hot wallet, so don't get the wrong idea. More like a checking account at a bank (hot wallet) and a pile of cash in a the safe in your basement.
    The next option is cold storage. This is where you want to keep the majority of your investment. There are different types of cold storage, but what I use is a hardware wallet. There is also a paper wallet, where you can actually print out your bitcoins (weird huh?), but I never got into it so I can't comment much. I just know that I lose paper so it's probably not a good idea for me.
    I use a Trezor. It's a hardware device that allows ME to hold the private key. Remember above, that when you keep it with an exchange, THEY hold the private key, not you. I like to be in complete control of my keys. You can also keep the private keys on your own computer in a wallet if you want, but that never sounded like a good idea to me.
    https://trezor.io/
    When I buy / mine coins, I send them to my Trezor wallet address where the private key is stored on my device. I'm in complete control of my coins. Unless someone were to steal my Trezor and my PIN, or my recover seed, it's worthless. The recovery seed allows you to recreate your private keys if your hardware wallet were to be stolen / destroyed / lost. The PIN just allows you to move funds from your Trezor.
    Whew, I think my fingers hurt.
    Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything I can clarify.

    Just as an F.Y.I. you can also own cryptocurrencies (and other assets like property / gold etc...) in a personally directed IRA account or through brokers which manage a personally directed IRA account for you. If, you want to direct retirement funds into these types of investments.

    #130 2 years ago
    Quoted from VacFink:

    every new coin mined has blood on it the moment its in circulation

    #144 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    I have a question, if you would care to answer it.
    Let's say I have a spare $5,000.00+ and want to buy just one (1) Bitcoin. I go to Coinbase to purchase it. I 'slide over' the amount needed to buy that one Bitcoin. If the value of the Bitcoins are moving rapidly up and down, how do they nail down the amount to the Penny for purchasing that one Bitcoin? Is this an easy process?
    Also, let's say I park that one Bitcoin in 'cold storage', and in two years, after it makes a substantial gain, I decide I'm ready to cash it in. Do I just simply go back to Coinbase and put in a "Sell Order" and the REAL money appears in my bank account in the next day or two?
    I'm not afraid of losing the money or the other security issues. I don't have time for complex things like 'mining', etc. I just want to buy one unit . . . leave it alone . . . and then hopefully cash it in for a profit.
    Thanks for your time.
    Mike in Kentucky

    It's pretty much like that yeah. Coinbase is an exchange. Buy/Sell in US $.

    #165 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheHueManatee:

    You pretty much just described gold too. And it has been used since the dawn of civilization....and will continue to be used until the end.

    Agreed. But what's your point? There are many alternative forms of value. Gold, Silver, Platinum, Bitcoin, Real Estate...etc...

    #166 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Mass delusion.
    And when people start pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, it will snowball into most everyone pointing and laughing at the naked man.
    This is basically what happened with the tulip bulb trade. Some genius looked at his bulb, and thought "did I really just pay $5000 for a flower seed?"

    Bitcoin has no relation to your precious "tulip bulb" analogy. Other than it might be a bubble. In that sense it would be more analogous to the famous "dot com" bubble.

    This (current valuation) might also just be the tip of the iceberg. If bitcoin actually catches on as an alternative form of currency then 6k per coin is just the beginning.

    If it doesn't then it's value could drop to zero. Or, it could even be supplanted by another form of cryptocurrency.

    #184 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    someone looking to invest their retirement in something that has "a 1000% return every year indefinitely..."

    I "hope" no one is doing that...although I'm sure there are some...always are. I've invested in Blockchain/Cryptocurrencies with eyes wide open. It wasn't a tiny sum but nothing that will affect my long term retirement plans if lost completely. Basically a "maximize my gains while containing my losses" approach. I also invested in gold at the same time as a hedge.

    #198 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    The exhanges being hacked are probably not the biggest worry. From what I have gleaned on the subject, it's actually the wallets and such storage methods that are more often hacked to steal cryptocurrency. Brute force hacking is especially easy when the owners set weak passwords, ransomware is common and even cell phone data theft - but even more sophisticated methods are being implemented by hackers as well. This also gives rise to one of the cons of cryptocurrency: You can reverse a credit card transaction - but you can't with crypto, similar to cash. Once it's stolen, you basically would have to find the thief and execute your own brand of personal justice.

    Hard to do if your using the "cold storage" method. If you're not...well you take your chances I guess. Your own personal coins will be as safe as you make them.

    #199 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Any speculators have an explanation for why Bitcoin is trading on the markets at nearly 10x what it was just a year ago after sitting stagnant for almost 2 years?

    Sure:
    #1 Speculation of future value.
    #2 Greater understanding of what blockchain technology is and what cryptocurrencies are.
    #3 Greater acceptance of Bitcoin worldwide as an actual form of payment.
    #4 "Hedge investing" to offset other "traditional forms of investment"

    #204 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    And when do you conduct your "How to day trading crypto" classes?
    I really want to give it a shot, but I've been being a wus.

    I have NO Interest in day trading. Buy and hold thank you. Way too volatile for my blood...too much work also (maybe when I retire ).

    #206 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    It's called bitcoin, because when people come to their senses and it all crashes down, 1 bitcoin will be worth exactly that. 12 and a half cents.

    Well if you bought at .06 in 2010 that would be a 20,733% increase to 12.5 cents.

    #209 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Did you buy in 2010?
    If you invested early with Bernie Madoff and got out at the right time, you would have made a killing. My point has never been about whether you can make money investing in the emperor's new clothes.

    You say it has no value beyond pure speculation. I disagree. I has value as an alternative asset class. It has value due to the pure transparency of the public ledger upon which it's built. It has value by being completely decentralized from any government. It has value in the relatively quick transaction times and lower fees VS traditional banking or credit card transactions.

    And lastly it has a base value today of at least $1000 per coin since that is roughly the current cost in just electricity to mine one (which will continue to go up).

    #215 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    So besides the wasted resources in computer hardware and Human labor, this endeavor is wasting tons of electricity thus helping pollute the planet for absolutely NOTHING of value. It should be banned. And it probably will be.

    Well It's a good thing I don't care at all what "you" think it's worth.

    I've already stated it could go to zero. It could also continue to rise for decade/s. Neither one of knows. If it goes to zero it certainly won't be becasue you knew better. If it sky rockets it won't be becasue I knew it would. That's the nature of investing in the future...especially in something as new and volatile as cryptocurrencies.

    #217 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    What it cost you really has nothing to do with establishing value... just sets an expectation of what someone would expect as the minimum to recover. Value is set by BOTH parties, not one.
    You are confusing the term. It may have value as a TOOL/Technology.. that does not equate to value in terms of a intrinsic value as a tradable commodity.
    If it costs me $10 to make a pretty piece of paper... that doesn't mean it has a market value of at least $10 or some inherent value at all. Just that it had a cost to produce.

    True enough...point retracted.

    #233 2 years ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    Does this generate a taxable event? Will I get a 1099?

    On the gains.

    #243 2 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    It seems that Bitcoin will continue to rise until it doesn't. At some point, people will mostly stop buying and the first few to sell out will do well and the rest will lose their entire investment but since most of those people with huge gains on Bitcoin bought in early, they won't really lose that much and the whole thing will just go back to normal. The fools are the people buying in recently/now. They believed what the believers (aka, early adopters) told them ("Bitcoin is a great investment! I've made a 125,000% gain!") and they will suffer the loss of whatever they chose to invest. Anyone who thinks Bitcoin has a long term future is truly a fool. That doesn't mean that everyone who invests in it is a fool. Some will easily make a fortune in a few years, at the cost of the morons investing later.
    Also, Bitcoin is a HIGHLY SPECULATIVE AND FRAGILE INVESTMENT, NOT A CURRENCY. As a currency, it's viability is tenuous at best.
    Of course this is all just my opinion and I don't claim any of this with 100% certainty. Time will tell if I am right.

    So you learned everything you needed to know about Bitcoin in 24hrs? Impressive.

    #258 2 years ago

    Not an insane estimate.

    #262 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Bitcoin's electricity consumption as a percentage of the world's electricity consumption = 0.10%

    You don't think that sounds HUGE? I do; For one cryptocurrency to consume that much energy seems a bit ludicrous.

    Not that their aren't known cures for this issue already.

    #267 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    You couldn't possibly understand the intricacies of such a complex subject as bitcoin. Graduating medical school hardly shows you have the intelligence to grasp such concepts.
    Best to leave it to the "experts" on here.

    #278 2 years ago

    I'll be honest, the power issue is one I had not considered before. I'll be watching this issue.

    #286 2 years ago

    Sure...but Bitcoin could switch to "proof of stake" vs the current proof of work. Much like Etherum. There are obviously other options as well and most likely some new ones will come along.
    It wouldn't necessarily involve a fork either...as long as there is a consensus.
    Although that may or may not be difficult until the last coin is mined (approximately 2040).
    Added over 2 years ago: Addendum - the last coins will be mined by 2140...not 2040.

    Added over 2 years ago: Addendum - the last coins will be mined by 2140...not 2040.

    #289 2 years ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    What is Bitcoin?
    Simply put, the smart money is already in and the dumb money is currently chasing...

    Sure...because you know exactly what's going to happen.

    #294 2 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    How many bitcoins have been mined? Does the mining process always create exactly one Bitcoin? How many coins are being mined in a day/week/month/etc? Is this rate slowing down due to complexity of solving the equations or speeding up due to increased computation power usage?

    Approximately 16 million have been mined. I don't know the current rate but when the rate of mining increases the difficulty soon adjusts to essentially keep the rate of production on pace. A pace that puts the last coins being mined by 2040 (approximately).

    #301 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Bitcoin makes looking at pinball as an investment a wiser move. Lol.

    Good thing you added the Lol...almost thought you were serious.

    #303 2 years ago

    We are still way, way, way at the early begining of Bitcoin.

    #305 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    Anyone want to make some comments on the volatility of the market(s)?
    Speculate?
    Offer some tall tales?
    Some do's and don'ts?
    I'm leaning toward buying a large amount of Bitcoin and then some small amounts of Ethereum and Litecoin.
    Mike in Kentucky

    This market is extremely volatile and probably won't ease up for years.

    I'm speculating that cryptocurrencies have a future...I could be dead wrong.

    Don't buy high and sell low

    Also...don't bite off more than you can swallow.

    Those are your three safest bets IMHO. Those are the same three I'm speculating on. You could also look at Ripple. There are others but it can soon become overwhelming...stick with the leaders.

    2 weeks later
    #315 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Lots of volatility?

    Extreme....what's really scary is I'm kind of getting used to it. It can drop $600 in an hour and I just shrug now.

    #318 2 years ago

    I say post it up... interesting stuff.

    #321 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    okay, okay.
    I built a mining rig with five Radeon Vega 56's.

    Excuse the mess. That's not it's final resting place, that's just where i'm putting it together. It's not quite finished, but it does hash perfectly (so far).

    Here it is going full blast. those red and blue LEDs indicate the level of usage of the GPUs -- they're all pegged at 100% in that image. Hash rate is about 10k/second.
    The rig is pulling a constant 800 watts. That'll add a little over $50 to my electric bill. (9 cents per kwh in my area)
    Each Vega is currently netting me about 1 Monero per month apiece. For now, it looks like i'll break even on the hardware costs in about 3-4 months, but there are several variables. Worst case scenario, I can always sell those cards - they're desirable for gaming. So there's a bit of an escape hatch if things turn sour.
    The rig is pretty loud and hot. I've got the windows open in my office, and even though it's like 40 degrees out, it's at least 70 degrees in here, haha.

    That's pretty cool. Definitely need to be an "enthusiast/hobbyist" to get into that I think. I'm good just throwing some money at the crypto's.

    #327 2 years ago
    Quoted from ninjabones:

    Anyway, I did buy some bitcoin for giggles a few years ago and for the time being, I'm letting it ride.

    A Few years ago! Hell yeah let it ride. You don't have much to lose.

    #337 2 years ago

    Bitcoin is up but Etherum and Litecoin are on a tear (as is Bitcoin cash).

    #339 2 years ago

    Jesus....how long before it corrects from profit taking?

    #343 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Are you pulling money out?!?!?!

    God no. I'm in for a long haul.

    #347 2 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    See, that's what I'm talking about! I'm learning!
    Who is the creator and what are they getting out of this? I'll be rich, with knowledge!
    Craig Wright? If so, why keep himself secret? I guess that is part of my issue with Bitcoin - people "investing" without any idea (at the start at least) who was behind it.

    Does matter who's behind it...only that the concept was sound (which it is) Bitcoin operates on a 100% open/public ledger. There are no secrets about how it operates. The best part is you do not even need to trust the people using it....the system guarantees that all transactions are fair and open.

    #350 2 years ago

    BTC briefly hit 9k and is still hovering near it.

    #358 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    But wouldn't it fun to be the guy that sold at all of his accumulated "real estate" for $975,000 15 1/2 years ago? Seems that it would have worked out pretty well for him.

    It has run up to $9,675 as I'm typing this 7:40pm Pacific. It could hit 10k before I go to sleep.
    Seriously, I see $10k within 2 weeks. And I've been doing what I can to help it along.
    Litecoin & Ethereum have been running strong too. They actually gained multiple percentages over Bitcoin during the last year, resulting in a better overall investment for the time period. They just don't get the publicity that Bitcoin does.
    I do suspect that when Bitcoin crosses $10,000, it will get a ton of press, and then rally even further to $12k before a much needed correction. But I'm in it long term, so these early moves are but a fart in a hurricane.
    But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Yep...and the institutional investors are about to get involved with Bitcoin for the first time in less than two weeks. Should get real interesting after that. I think a big part of this runup is due to that upcoming event.

    #363 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    It's funny, I've been watching people bitch and moan about BTC since it was $1/coin. I bought a couple on a lark at $100/coin.

    Cha-Ching!

    Edit...but I wouldn't even dream of cashing out if I were you. You don't have much to lose so let it ride (for like 5-10 years).

    #367 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    sorry didn't read the entire thread, but if someone created the bitcoins that can be mined, why did they do it? I mean it sounds like someone put them in a mine and you need to use a computer to solve (mine) a problem. But what is the point of the computer (is there any value to solving the problem?).
    I'm just not getting this point, usually, when someone does work they get paid. For example, let's say you are stuffing envelopes and you get paid $1 for every 100 envelopes you stuff. The point being you are doing a job, and the person paying you needs the envelops stuffed and so both parties get something out of the work.
    With mining bitcoins, what is the value of the calculation?

    At first it was just a concept. A completely decentralized (peer to peer) internet currency using blockchain (an open public distributed ledger). Whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is/are it was rather genius. In the beginning solving the equations to produce a Bitcoin was relatively easy and a fair number of people "mined" them just for the fun of it. One guy traded 10,000 Bitcoins for two large pizzas early on. But...as coins are mined the solving of the equations becomes more difficult...and expensive both in the cost of computing hardware and electricity.

    Today it's approximately $1000 just in electricity to mine one Bitcoin. So why do it? Because today one Bitcoin is worth over 9.5k. Why is worth that much? Because we all (currently) say it is. Why is a dollar worth a dollar....becasue we all agree it is. But with Bitcoin there can only ever be 21 million of them...no more. And the last coins won't be mined until approximately 2040. Currently there are approximately 16.6 million Bitcoins (actually less becasue some have been lost and more will get lost over time). Of course every time it splits (Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Diamond) there can be up to 21 million of those...but they are separate coins with different features and none are currently worth anywhere near what the original Bitcoin is. That may or may not remain true.

    #372 2 years ago

    How much?

    #379 2 years ago

    I think that's the part the "tulip" yellers are missing. Cryptocurrency could (could... might) have real future value (usefulness / longevity). It could end up eventually being the defacto world currency (maybe...someday). Will that be Bitcoin specifically? Who knows.

    It could also just end up being a new store of value (similar to gold). A hedge against the stock market.

    It could also end up failing and being completely worthless.

    I think just about everyone here who is investing in them is aware of these things. My eyes are open. I think it has real legs...I could be wrong. If I am wrong... oh well, I took a shot.

    Again... yes the value has shot up... and that sets a lot of people's alarms off. MUST BE A BUBBLE... JUST LIKE TULIPS THAT NO ONE ELSE BUT ME KNOWS ABOUT... MUST WARN THEM.

    But if Bitcoin has a future use as real currency...or even if it has a future as a store of value...then 10k is still just the early begining of its long term value.

    #398 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    But that's just it.... The future of Cryptocurency is not the same as the future of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is just one iteration... there is nothing locking it in place as 'the winner' or even a player!
    So saying "block chain is the future..." or "cryptocurrencies are the future..." may all be perfectly valid... but that doesn't mean anything about Bitcoin. The only thing holding bitcoin in place is the current bitcoin holders and the miner's willingness to participate.

    Which is why I said "Will that be Bitcoin specifically? Who knows." I'm not just invested in Bitcoin. Of course even the other coins I've invested in could fall by the wayside. I believe cryptocurrency has a future...I've "placed some bets"...I could be wrong. I'm aware that I could be wrong.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    hink about this... let's say you are a major player in a economic loop... a person holding goods of value or a policy driver.. like a government. You've decided that blockchains are the future... you are big enough to shape the landscape. Do you think that entity is going to pick bitcoin as the foundation when someone else has already created all the value you start with zero?? Hell no.
    A disruptor will start another system and lure people into buying into their model... not take an existing one completely controlled by other people... that itself is only anchored by history, not holding onto anything that intrinsically makes it hard to dislodge.
    Look at how quickly something like Pokemon Go propagated... in weeks you had tens of millions of downloads. That is the new world order... with purpose something can spread to millions of installations in days. "prior footprint" means almost nothing anymore.

    Maybe. Maybe if Bitcoin gets a strong enough following it can't be stopped. The only way to completely shut it down is to shut off everyone's computer. Outlawing Bitcoin in and of itself, might (might) not be enough to stop it. Certainly it would be a serious blow but it could eventually crawl its way back even from that.

    Governments or Corporations pushing their own crypto just might not be powerful enough to shape this new landscape. Bitcoin is popular BECAUSE it's decentralized.

    Now I admit I could be very naive on just how much power governments and the central banking system might bring to bear on this. Maybe they could "shut it all down"...maybe they can't.

    #402 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    I have been trying since October to open an account on Coinbase and/or GDAX but can't get either of them to accept my driver's license photo.
    I've written on here before about this. But since there has been a flurry of new postings, I thought I would try it again.
    I need some recommendations on what exchange to use other than those two. Some of you have surely bought on a different exchange. I read a lot today about Bitshares.org. I can't find any fee schedules on their site. Can anyone vouch for them?
    One last question. If I successfully buy Bitcoin or Ether from, let's say Bitshares, can I sell them someday using another exchange? Just pull 'em outta my 'wallet' and sell them?
    I'm trying SO hard to get rich and I can't even GIVE my money away!

    The photo has to be clear enough to see the details. Try scanning your driver's licence...that's what I ended up doing.

    #403 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Pintucky- if you are buying it at 10k you are not getting rich, so there is no rush. :$

    Oh I don't know about that. I can tell you that my little "crypto fund" has earned more than that in just the last two weeks. Of course it's not a profit until I sell and this whole thing could come crashing down before I ever sell becasue I'm stubborn like that. I'm going big or losing it all...flip a coin.

    #433 2 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Cash out and move on.
    Any profit is a good profit.
    Where people go wrong, is they ALWAYS get too greedy. “It could be $20,000 next year!” Hey, it could be. But hey, it could be worth nothing. Don’t be greedy, you take a profit and move on. If you bought low, you’ve done extremely well, take the profit.
    I started buying and selling stuff at 16. (1986) Lets just say I don’t have to do that any more. Seen all the bubbles come and go. Too numberous to mention. It’s always the same. I’ve seen people lose everything gambling on the silliest things. It’s always greed that gets them in trouble. Always that carrot dangling in front of them “just a little bit more ...” ....
    Anyways, as always, your money, you’re free to do as you please with it.
    rd

    That's why when I "speculate" I only do it with money I can afford to lose. That being said "speculation" was not my only reason for getting involved with a few of these cryptocurrencies. I think there might be a real future here. So I am betting long not short. If I lose what I put in so be it...I'll be fine. 5-10 years for me (Bitcoin has already been around for 8). I either get at least quarter million out or I lose (or just cash out in 10 years with whatever is there). This was a "gamble" so if I'm going to gamble it's go big or go home. I'm not throwing in 15k (just an example) to pull out 30k on a gamble. I could make that in the regular ol' stock market.

    #437 2 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I can’t afford to lose any money. Ever.

    I can when I think there is a potential huge upside

    #438 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    I can when I think there is a potential huge upside

    BTW...looks like Bitcoin just dropped over 1k in the last hour (profit taking).

    #445 2 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    If it is a “good” investment, there should be no chance of losing your money. Worse case, you make a little profit or break even.
    Anything else is gambling. You may as well go to the roulette wheel and keep betting on Black. You’ll be right around 40%.
    rd

    See...I have a TOTALLY different view of this market. I have never played roulette in my life. In fact when I do go to Vegas I only play poker (and go to shows). At least in poker I have some say in the matter.

    With the cryptos I see a potentially bright future.

    #450 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Dave,
    Can't believe you are spewing these rational thoughts in this thread. The pitchforks came out quick when I did it.

    Dave has a "better/nicer" way of presenting his thoughts on things (IMHO).

    #452 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    yes! (2 years ago)

    LOL! Isn't that always the case!

    But we shall see...I'll either lose a little or make a lot.

    #457 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Now Coinbase is offline due to load. The big sell-off begins!

    Nope...already bouncing back - $9,897

    #460 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    That's the zillions of people waiting for the dip buying in.

    Bitcoin had a $2,087.03 swing over about a 5 hour period today....lol

    #466 2 years ago

    The "Bulls" won't let it slide.

    Dash is now on a tear.

    #472 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Can we please call it a mania now?

    If it's a bubble then its a hot air balloon and someone just lit the candle.

    #473 2 years ago

    What a roller coaster....haha.

    #475 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    I think the ratio of risk to reward is significantly in my favor.

    Bingo (and I agree with your assessment...only reason I'm invested).

    #481 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    At the beginning of 2013, Bitcoin was trading at about $25 per coin. A $4,500 (Avg cost of a NIB) investment then would have given you 180 Bitcoin.
    If you sold it right now, at $9,475 ($2,000 Below its recent top) it would have net you $1,705,500. In 5 years. Doing nothing.
    So, honestly, how do you feel about not having "invested" at that time?
    I honestly just don't get it.

    I'll admit that Bitcoin first caught my attention in 2014 when it was hovering in the $600-800 range. I didn't invest then becasue I didn't understand what it was and I didn't like the options/vehicles at the time for investing in it (they seemed "iffy/shady" to me)...so I forgot about it.

    Obviously the explosion that happened this year caught a lot more eyes...including mine (again). This time I did a LOT more research, and I liked what I saw. So yes I jumped on a speeding freight train...but not just becasue it was a speeding freight train but because of what I learned about it.

    The price increase this year appears absolutely insane...until you really start to think about the potential. That potential may never be realized; but if it ever is then 10k, 15k, 25k are all still early. If it really does become a new World Wide currency...even if it's just "in addition to" existing currencies...then 100k+ is well within reason.

    Remember that a single Bitcoin is highly divisible. Even if the value hit 1 million then the smallest denomination (one Satoshi) would still only be worth 1 cent. That's a lot of headroom....necessary headroom, if it's going to actually work as a currency.

    THAT being said there is a second option for value. Bitcoin could simply become an alternate store of value (yeah, yeah...sort of like gold). Under this scenario I do not see the eventual price going as high but we could still see prices tipping 50-100k.

    Thirdly - Do not forget about or ignore ATOMIC SWAPS (so don't forget to pick up Litecoin if you do pick up Bitcoin). Atomic swaps solves many of Bitcoin's big issues right now (cost and speed of use). Atomic Swaps allows two people holding tokens on two different blockchains to trade directly – and instantly – without the risk of one party running off with the other's money before the trade is complete. That is where the word 'atomic' comes in. It means that either the trade happens in its entirety, or it doesn't happen at all. So, if a Lightning node goes offline or Bob reneges on his end of the deal, everyone gets their money back. The swap happens FREE of charge. https://cryptovest.com/news/lightning-network-first-atomic-swap-between-bitcoin-and-litecoin/

    Then again it could ALL crash and burn (invest accordingly).

    #484 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    To date, I've accumulated 2.2+ Bitcoin, 326 Litecoin, and 38 Ether. I should have picked up more of all of them this morning when there was blood in the streets. There may be more downside to come but I'm also looking at the long term potential, not the daily ebb & flow.

    We are VERY close to each other....I have slightly more BTC and less LTC and Ether. Although I definitely would like to pick up more of those.

    #493 2 years ago
    Quoted from Shoot_Again:

    Couple years late for this question...
    As for mining you would need so much processing power at this point in the game!

    For Bitcoin? You can forget about it. There all multimillion dollar farms in China, Japan, Iceland...etc... way to expensive for a solo operation these days.

    Now other coins you could still mine. Litecoin, Monero, etc...

    #500 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Sounds like the IRS is coming for the Bitcoin tax cheats.

    Luckily I won't have to pay any taxes (legally) when/if I convert my coins back to USD. Of course I'll have to pay the tax when I actually start taking the money but only on the amount I take.

    #502 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Astro, you need to check with your accountant on that. Once you convert it back to usd you have a gain, not when you withdraw.
    Think of it like bank interest or mutual fund gains. You are taxed when the event happens not when u take money out of the account.

    All of my crypto is being held in a "self directed" IRA account...I'm good.

    #504 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Oh, i missed that detail earlier.

    Yeah...I was being a little coy with my initial response.

    #505 2 years ago
    Quoted from BeaglePuss:

    Once the CME futures go live, I might jump back in if there's a significant dip.

    I think if the CME futures cause a dip it will be very brief. Of course with institutional money jumping in we could see even more "pumping & dumping".

    #506 2 years ago

    It's a good thing I love rollercoasters. One time I look and all the numbers are red as values plummet...next time I look they are all green as prices shoot up.

    Litecoin is on a tear now.

    #508 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    but I don't want to pull away from my other saving habits

    Good plan. I'm about to put some money into my regular SEP IRA. As "exciting" as crypto is, can't get carried away.

    #513 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Bought 100,000 shares of a marijuana stock this morning. Came back home this evening and it was up 17.82%. Beat Bitcoin.
    I also bought some put options contracts on MGM.
    Plus I put an offer on 6,000+ sf retail space just off of Fremont Street this afternoon.
    Now it's off to the Baccarat tables to close out the day.

    Yeah I tried a different marijuana stock a few years ago...apparently I picked the wrong one.

    #515 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    ugh all anyone uses the stock market for is illegal purchases and speculation.

    lol

    #518 2 years ago
    Quoted from snowvictim:

    Bitcoin is basically the modern day tulipmania. It's purely speculative at this point, from just north of 2k to crossing 10k USD per BTC a few days ago. The worst thing is that it's not actually a tangible asset, it's just information. The mining process is weird and complex, and liquidity is an issue. Basically you've got people hyped up about it cause they suddenly have a portfolio that's worth tens of thousands, maybe even a couple hundred thousands, dollars. Good for them, but it's all an illusion. Nothing appreciates in value this much, and I mean nothing that grows organically i.e. the growth is a result of book value, not market value. Bitcoin is heavily overvalued, largely a result of the speculative actions behind it. Remember what happened to the US housing market 10 years ago? That wasn't the result of houses, that was the result of speculation in non-tangible assets. Bitcoin claims to be a currency, but there range of commodities you can buy with it is still limited (largely due to the liquidity problems). The problem is that it's self-proclaimed status as a currency makes it liable to being taxed as income.
    My friend approached me back in September 2012 asking whether we should put up 500 British pounds each to buy some bitcoins. At that point, it would have gotten us about 50 Bitcoins each, so my portfolio right now would be worth around 500,000 USD. Would I liquidate? No, probably just because of the problems involved in it (it's not like selling stock on the market), the commissions and fees involved, etc. Also why would I? All Bitcoin had done was appreciate over the paste decade, it would be foolish to sell, right? One day Bitcoin will crash, and when it does it will really hit hard. This thing has an insane volatility rate. Fluctuation of 600-1000 USD are normal. When the crash comes, it'll take everyone with it just because it will be so hard to distinguish it from "normal" fluctuations.
    If you're looking into alternative currencies, try Glint. At least there you have some tangible asset.

    I really wish there was a giant yawn emoji.

    #523 2 years ago

    I see what you did there.

    #526 2 years ago

    Zero sold by the original creator. Who mined the fist 1 million coins. This is known because it's an open ledger.

    #532 2 years ago

    So CBOE begins futures trading Bitcoin on Dec 10th. Will this be the next "Big Short"? Or will they jump on the train and propel it forward even faster?

    I am concerned that this opens the doors for greater manipulation. They could force a major downturn if there is a consensus of shorting. How can they force the price of BTC down just by shorting it...by creating an arbitrage situation. If the futures value drops significantly below the actual trading price of BTC then the holders of BTC would purchase the futures and sell their holdings thus netting an instant profit. If enough of that happens then the value of Bitcoin could plummet.

    On the other hand if they are just jumping on the bandwagon then the price could soar even higher.

    #535 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Astro, you are funny. I mentioned value manipulation on page 2 and you wanted to argue about it. Glad you saw the light!

    You mentioned trusting a corporation to back your money...I replied that no corporation owns Bitcoin.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Just remember, the CBOE doesn't buy or sell the futures themselves, they are just creating a place for them to be bought and sold. They make their money on the transaction itself.

    I understand how it works

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    It will be interesting to see how active this market is.

    Coinflip (pun intended)...It really could go either way. But we still have to remember that Bitcoin is global...even though the US (and China...and probably even Russia) could do the greatest amount of manipulation.

    I still believe that even if it does get shorted down in price that it would still eventually rebound. It has shown amazing resiliency to downward pressure in the past. Just depends on (if it gets shorted) how severe it is. Wonder if the Winklevoss twins will sell all or part of their billion dollar holding in Bitcoin just prior to the futures market going live?

    #540 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    I'm left wondering what the heck is going on in the world when millionaires and billionaires can be created overnight

    Some millionaires sure....only billionaires I'm aware of are the Winklevoss twins who put up 11 million back it 2013...huge risk...big return, good for them.

    Quoted from acebathound:

    It has a potential impact (even at today's price per coin) to redistribute a large amount of the world's wealth to a HUGE number of illegal entities that were doing business in Bitcoin the last 8 years.

    Quoted from acebathound:

    The average Joe doesn't understand it *at all*

    Then the average Joe shouldn't be investing (a fool and his money... )

    Quoted from acebathound:

    Many don't know the illegal origins of the currency

    Please explain...in detail the nefarious origins.

    Quoted from acebathound:have more purchasing power or control when they inevitably cash out and use whatever currency nets them the most to purchase weapons.

    Ya got me... I'm invested so I can buy more weapons! Aren't we all?

    Quoted from acebathound:

    the top dogs are already established YEARS ago when it was $1 or $10 or $100 a coin.

    They saw the potential early they reap the rewards. To buy more "weapons" of course.

    #542 2 years ago

    It's a risky endeavor to be sure. Don't put in more than you are willing to lose. That's pretty simple. But...stupid is as stupid does, and I'm sure more than a handful off people will likely go broke over this someday...if it's a bubble or becomes a bubble.

    If you don't understand what you are investing in then don't do it.

    To answer your first question... you are purchasing from exchanges. If you cash out to USD it happens pretty much right then (as soon as your sell order goes through). USD in your account, same day.

    From there you can transfer the money to a bank account or pretty much wherever you want to transfer it to (another brokerage etc...).

    #549 2 years ago

    There are so many ways to backup your private keys. Offline "cold storage" on an encrypted usb. You could literally have them printed out on paper and stored in a safe or saftey deposit box.

    Quoted from vicjw66:

    The thing that would worry me as a holder of bitcoin is not knowing who has large holdings in it that could manipulate the market or short it. Doesn't anyone find it strange that the creator of bitcoin has 1 million of them and hasn't cashed in a single one? Who is willing to risk billions of dollars by not diversifying and cashing out at least some of that. What happens if he cashes them all out tomorrow and starts a major panic sell off?

    Maybe he died? Maybe they are lost like so many others? Maybe 10,000 other reasons. Why would the creator try to crash the value all at once? That wouldn't make a lot of sense.

    #555 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinballNewb:

    Cashing in on millions / billions of dollars doesn’t make sense?

    You answered your own question:

    Quoted from PinballNewb:

    The influx of supply would cause the price to drop before you could sell it all.

    So...he/she/they would not sell all one million Bitcoins all at once. You sell them slowly over several years...probably make a lot more that way anyway.

    #557 2 years ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    What happens when they near the end of 21M Bitcoins mined?

    Well we have approximately 22 years to worry about that.

    #558 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinballNewb:

    For sure, except when I have a million total to sell I’ll gladly take a tenth of the current price and walk away with my billion happy.

    I don't know about you but if I was genius enough to invent Bitcoin and the Blockchain I wouldn't destroy my own creation by crashing the market. A couple hundred million could probably hold my over while I slowly sell the rest. Hell if I really believe it's the currency of the future I'm going to keep a sizable chunk of it....it would then be fiat that I would need to get out of.

    #561 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    The problem is, the instant someone accesses that wallet, the anonymity of the creator(s) is gone. It's long been a secret. So, that's part of the motivation on their part.

    The transactions are public...no names are attached to the transactions however. That being said the IRS can likely obtain that information from the exchange/s used...but not the public at large.

    #564 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    But in the future, will undocumented immigrants still be legal??? I kid. I kid.
    Please hold your applause.
    Who needs it to be undocumented?!??! One just needs to study IRS law, or hire a financial professional who has. Personally, I'm not trying to hide anything, from any entity, as clearly evidenced by this, and previous posts. I'll happily, and I mean very happily pay any and all taxes due on any capital gains. What's 15% anyway, if one is making massive amounts of money, essentially out of thin air. And if one is trading in a pre-tax Roth IRA, there are no taxes due on the gains.*
    BTW - With $12,000 in the rear view mirror, I've got my eyes on $15,000.....
    Before Christmas.
    * Consult with a financial professional before investing any money. One should only invest money one can afford to lose. Past performance is not indicative of future gains. Do not attempt to emulate anything I do. I'm not an expert, I'm just an idiot with too much time and money, at the moment. If I lose it all, you'll be notified by the immediate sale of my entire pinball collection. Enjoy the show.

    lol...my crypto crashed...my wife is pissed...games for sale.

    #565 2 years ago

    Should have picked up some IOTA!

    I like the technical specs on IOTA but I don't like the volume (over 2.7 BILLION coins in circulation). Still...missed the train on that one (or did I?...who the hell even knows anymore).

    #570 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Yes but the inventor(s) haven’t cashed in any of that million. Seems odd.

    Agreed...it's a bit odd. Quite the mystery/s. Who(whom) invented it...and why haven't they cashed in any of it?

    The only reasonable answer is...we don't have any idea.

    #573 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Is it possible the inventor lost his key and can’t access it? Can you imagine the guy punch of knowing you’re worth billions, but can’t acc as it?
    The nice thing about my fidelity investment account is that if I forget my password or account number, I am confident that eventually I will be able to access my investments and cash out when I choose to.

    This certainly isn't for the faint of heart. A lot of people have been hurt already (MtGox, lost keys, stolen keys, tossed laptops...etc...).

    Can you imagine if the creator/s actually lost their coins! Maybe that will be why they remain anonymous...too embarrassed...or hung themselves!

    #581 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    but here's one with a positive ending:
    My $200,000 bitcoin odyssey
    https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/05/how-not-to-store-your-bitcoins/
    How I recovered cryptocurrency from a broken laptop.

    That 200k is currently worth 566K.

    #584 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    The whole IOTA naming convention is a bit convoluted. An iota cannot be divided into a smaller unit. It is analogous to a Bitcoin satoshi, which is the smallest possible fraction of a bitcoin (1/100 millionth of a bitcoin). Apparently the IOTA creators went with this scheme to help eliminate the misunderstanding people have with Bitcoin's divisibility, but the price you see for IOTA on the exchanges is for an MIOTA, which is 1,000,000 iota.
    So to compare total units of IOTA to Bitcoin, you have to compare the number of sats (shorthand plural form of satoshi) to iota, or whole bitcoins to GIOTA (1 billion iota), or mBTC (millibitcoin, 1/1,000 of a bitcoin) to MIOTA.
    There are 21 million total bitcoins * 100 million sats per bitcoin, which means there are a total of 2.1e15 sats vs. 2.78e15 iota, or 21 million bitcoins vs. 27.8 million GIOTA, or 2.1 billion mBTC vs. 2.78 billion MIOTA. If you want to get a feel for IOTA's comparable standing against Bitcoin, you would have to multiply IOTA's exchange value by 1,000 or divide Bitcoin's value by 1,000.

    I did not know that...thanks.

    #586 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    bitcoin seems like a losing battle, especially after nicehash getting hacked (probably the most popular mining software out there). There are other crypto-currencies out there, many that are more secure than bitcoin. I just started mining Zcash, will probably run it nightly since my computer is running every night anyway. It's supposed to be anonymous (which bitcoin isn't), and JPmorgan is backing them. It's currently floating around $300 each.

    Other coins are not safer than Bitcoin. It's just that the thieves go after the biggest reward which is clearly Bitcoin.

    Zcash is a good one and it's also good to be diversified. But ultimately it's up to you and only you to protect your crypto' s.

    They wouldn't have gotten squat from nicehash if people didn't keep their coins on there . Probably an inside job.

    #591 2 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    We should all come up with our own coin, Pincoin. Built into the latest pins each new high score generates a QR code that when scanned grants 1 Pincoin for a high score and 2 Pincoins for a grand champion score. There will only be 21 million possible Pincoins, just like Bitcoin.
    Games would need to be on a network together for "mining" (playing) and high scores would need to be regularly beat to generate more Pincoins.
    A new glass on detection system and required video surveillance for verification is required for every game on the Pincoin network.
    ****
    Here's another one, BeefCoin. Supporting super markets provide a unique code for every pound of beef purchased. Buy 2 lbs of ground beef? You get 1 BeefCoin. Buy 24oz of fillet mignon? You get 10 BeefCoins!
    Lol

    Not sure what your point is? If it's that there are a lot of "shit coins" out there, then yes there are... so what?

    #617 2 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    I can single-handedly destroy Bitcoin's value. I will invest in it starting today. Prepare for the great crash of 2017.

    LOL....should we thank you now?

    BTW...the price of Bitcoin will "correct"...might even overcorrect, and then it will march upwards once again...HODL! (Or sell and then buy at the correction if you're into that sort of thing). With my coins being held in self directed IRA I really can't move quickly...I can't just jump on Coinbase and buy/sell instantly. That's okay though...I'm holding at minimum through the end of 2018 into 2019 depending on what's happening. Like I said...I'm going big or losing it. I don't plan to cash out with just 2-4x what I put in (if that were the case I'd be cashing out already). Might sound stupid to some but that was my plan from the get go. Buy, hold, get a massive profit or a possible total loss.

    I get the concept of "playing with house money" but I didn't put in just to cut some of the potential profits...even at the cost of losing my initial investment. So what price will I sell at? I currently have no idea (which probably isn't a good thing). I see potential of Bitcoin exceeding 100k. My thoughts right now is if it does hit 100k then at that point I might pull out 2x what I put in (which at that point would be less than one Bitcoin) and then let the rest ride.

    If it really catches on as "digital gold" then I now expect the price to hit at least 400k. That's a massively big if though.

    #623 2 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    Either you're correct and Bitcoin will go crazy in the next 1-2 years, or you will be reading my viral article "How I destroyed Bitcoin with $400"

    It will go crazy over the next couple years but I don't see 400k being that fast (but what the hell do I know). There will be many "peaks and valleys" along they way.

    Quoted from Underspin:

    I'm already down to $377.98 SUCKERS
    update: $370.84 and falling

    Well you did buy near one of the peaks....maybe...possibly (who the hell knows anymore?)

    #626 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Is anyone still using Bitcoin as currency or is everyone just speculating? Steam just recently dropped Bitcoin as a mode of payment due to it's price volatility and the per-transaction cost.

    Let's be honest here very few (if anyone these days) is going to be using Bitcoin as a currency in daily transactions (except maybe to speculate on other crypto's). It's just going up too fast.

    That being said Bitcoin does not actually EVER need to be utilized as a currency to become even more valuable. It looks like it's literally turning into the de facto "digital store of value". I know many of you hate this but...... "digital gold".

    #636 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Such a model always requires 3 separate parties to agree... The buyer, the seller, and the NEXT buyer. As such, the strength is only as good as the faith of the NEXT guy in the chain.

    True...but if "the next guy in line" involves the entire planet it could still serve that purpose for a long time (possibly).

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    or if the thing traded itself has other uses, the buyer is confident they will be able to move it on again for value.

    It does have other uses. In the future (possibly even the near future with successful lighting network transactions having already taken place) it may very well serve as a useful currency once the volatility eases up (and as long as it doesn't completely crash beforehand). It's ultimate value as a useful currency (maybe) could push its value even higher than its usefulness as a "digital gold".

    It's all extremely speculative...I've never denied or even shied away from that reality.

    Quoted from XXVII:

    If I were in your shoes, I would leave it there. You already weren't missing it, so why not ride it out and see if Bitcoin goes 10x again? Worst case is you lose something you've already once forgotten you had.

    Easier said than done...but I'm with ya.

    #639 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I might be banging a supermodel.. and get hit by a meteor at the same time. Maybe...

    so your telling me (resized).jpg

    #641 2 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    If he invested $1000 seven years ago he'd have more like $15 million now.

    Can you imagine? If that were me I'd cash out half right now and let the rest ride.

    #645 2 years ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    investments though a "regular" bank

    If you're investing anything through a "regular bank" you're doing it wrong...IMHO.

    Most people use brokerages for investing.
    For cryptos you need to use an exchange that deals in cryptocurrencies.

    #648 2 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    So guys, if somebody has a few expandable bucks to gamble at this thing, what do you suggest?
    BTC because it's the big name in the game?
    Some others because they have more room to grow and aren't as wildly volatile?

    1st. Do some homework so you know what you want to invest in and why.

    Personally I'd stick with crypto's in the top 10 (by market cap).

    #652 2 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    Oh and we made fun of him because he was worried about the singularity and an AI takeover too.

    Not sure why you would make fun of him for that? Unless he thinks it's going to happen next week? Because make no mistake that it is coming and most likely within most of our lifetimes. If you put a gun to my head and I had to guess I would say right around the time the last Bitcoin is being mined... give or take a few years.

    #653 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Plan to just lose the money. I don't know how anyone entering the market now could throw major cash at this thing at its current price & feel comfortable. You're trading with a market full of gamblers that got in early and are as dumbfounded as everyone else at where this thing has gone. It's like Farmville currency being brought out into the real world and everyone that was just playing it as a game suddenly finding themselves overnight millionaires and billionaires. People sitting on tons of coins have nothing to lose & everything to gain by hyping it up more. They're trading between the cryptos to make money -- pulling out at the peak, buying back in when they (or others) cause a dip. Case in point, this morning around 6:30am Bitcoin dropped $2k for a bit. All the other major cryptos saw a spike. Then as Bitcoin was bought again, the other cyrptos went down. Major players (maybe the minors) probably have this stuff automated. Buying low, selling high.. skimming off the top.
    https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/04/30/tutorial-altcoin-flipping-cryptocurrency-trading-strategies-always-win/
    The good thing is the new tech coming out of this will be useful for a lot of things & blockchain tech itself is getting a lot of press. It's also highly interesting that something was created that few under the radar long-enough that it's ultimately allowing for "the greatest transfer of wealth in history". Hopefully enough of the new-found rich will be doing good things for society.

    You act like everyone jumped on this train 5 years ago... not the case. And even most off the ones who did bought a few Bitcoins as a goof... they aren't millionaires.

    #663 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    But i just want to say, we had a thing here with tullip bulbs in our past.......

    Whaaaaat? What are these tulip bulbs you speak of?

    #667 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    I think we should figure out what family boardgame or street game Bitcoin resembles the most.
    HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS
    I saw someone mention musical chairs somewhere..

    Monopoly...and Bitcoin is Boardwalk.

    #672 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    I, for one, appreciate your openness and candor about your financial trades. I'm dying to get in on cryptocurrency but have had no success in setting up on an exchange. I wanted to buy Bitcoin back when it was $3.000 and can NEVER find a way to make my application to GDAX or Coinbase work.
    Mike

    Wow... that blows. Got to be a way around that?

    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Last night in a smoky haze I decide to sell 160 LTC @ $97. It's trading at $130 as I type this. A $5,280 mistake there.

    Whoops....Litecoin is one of my favorites as a long term hold.

    #679 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    so 10 people share this opinion about the bitcoin situation an possible outcome , witch is not your opinion.... so it's annoying?????
    insert welcome to pinside post in 3....2....1........

    Everyone already knew about the TULIPS before the 1st person even mentioned them!!! So to hear about them over and over and over and...
    Gets rather annoying yes. We're all big boys and understand the risks. If you don't understand the risks and you bet and lose your life savings...well that's on you and no one else.

    The entire Tulip mania lasted about 2 years. Bitcoin has been going for eight years now. Virtually that entire time people have been yelling TULIPS! When Bitcoin got to $100...Tulips...$200...Tulips...and on and on and on it goes. BTW it's currently (down) $14,450 (thanks Underspin!) still up a bit from the original $.003.

    #681 2 years ago
    Quoted from mesmashu:

    what wallet do you guys use. coinbase requires a drivers license? you trust that?

    I'd recommend the Ledger Nano S. Cheaper than the Trezor but just as good.

    #682 2 years ago
    Quoted from ninjabones:

    » YouTube video
    Another interesting perspective , somewhat paraleling my previously mentioned concerns with regard to how bitcoin will perform when tested in a recession.

    He makes some good points. Is he right? No one knows. How will it handle a recession? He thinks it will totally crash in one. He's got at best a 50/50 shot at being right. Look the old farts (And I'm one of those) mostly do not get it. The millennials mostly do. They have already stated that they would rather put their money into Bitcoin than into gold in a market downturn. Will they actually do it? Who knows. Plus the "old farts" probably have a lot more cash to work with than the millennials do so that might sway things in gold's favor when the recession hits...again...who knows. Me...I bought both at the same time...gold and Bitcoin (diversify).

    #685 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    No. - he said he didn't know what it would do while he does have a track record on others. Uncertainty vs a probability based on past performance.

    Well you're right about him not saying it would totally crash. What he did say about how he thought it would perform in a recession was "My estimate, not very well".

    #690 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Speak for yourself.
    I'm an immature, 51 year old child who actively seeks risk.

    50....and moderate risk. Although being in crypto some might argue about that.

    In my younger days I totalled a snowmobile at 70mph, totalled a motorcycle (FZR-600), hit boat while pulling a skier and put a two door car through the ice a mile out from shore with 5 people on board. Luckily no one was ever hurt...except me on the motorcycle deal. Couple nights in the ICU and some new dental implants.

    #695 2 years ago

    Has anyone ever heard of any possible downsides to any investment that appears to be rising faster than usual? I can't think of any... guess I'll bet the farm.

    #697 2 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    Bitcoin futures will begin to trade today in roughly 6 hours. Talk about a stress test. This should be wild ride.
    I mentioned to the wife this morning that if Google were to start it's own Crypto (I'm calling it "G-Money" because it makes me laugh) that Bitcoin would die a fast death. Google could steer results to retailers that accept G-Money, and in a final blow pair up with Amazon and essentially take over online commerce.

    Nope...because G-money would be "centralized"

    #698 2 years ago

    Clearly there are two kinds of people in the world - Those who know Bitcoin is a shame/bubble with zero intrinsic value and will therefore eventually go to zero.
    - Those who believe that Bitcoin has a future as either a store of value or a usable currency or both. If either or both of those end up being true then the value is going to go a lot higher.

    Both scenarios would look and behave the same. So we won't know who's right for quite a while. Vs traditional investments Bitcoin will "bubble" and "crash" many times along the way (already has). So until to goes to actual zero or shoots up and then eventually starts to stabilize in value we still won't know who's right.

    Your call.

    And option 3 - Those who don't have a friggin clue but know it's going to zero or know it's going to a trillion dollars becasue their second cousins nieces brother-n-law told them so.

    And....option 4 - Cryptocurrencies are the future and blockchain is the future...but neither of those necessarily include Bitcoin itself. We've seen this scenario again and again in new paradigms. AOL was the king of the internet...until it wasn't.

    #704 2 years ago
    Quoted from BrianBannon:

    I believe that any cryptocurrency that can process a simple transaction as cheap and easy as any current method will win the race. Bitcoin doesn't seem to fit that profile. Is there another crypto that does?

    Quite a few...just a few of the leaders on that end...Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash, Dash, Zcash, Monero.

    But that still might not have any affect on Bitcoin becoming the "de-facto" "store of value".

    Also...they are working on a lighting network for Bitcoin which has already been tested and shown to work. That would greatly reduce Bitcoin transaction times and costs.

    #705 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    You missed the most important group...
    - The people who have no interest in bitcoin's future as anything except something with lots of upside potential for appreciation in a short period - so it's a flipper's dream. The ones buying and pumping bitcoin as an investment purely because they see the potential to buy now, and sell much higher.
    This group doesn't need to see bitcoin be anything but something to sell higher than they bought it. They don't care if bitcoin goes to zero.. as long as the crash is after they sold. They don't care if the doom is near.. because they feel they have so little exposure that if it crashes 'no big deal'.
    This is the group that is pumping real money into exchanges... while the real manipulators are happy to see them and others keep coming in because they help validate their scheme.

    Certainly there is a LOT of that going on as well.

    #707 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Anyone else using the Blockfolio app? A buddy of mine introduced it to me. You can punch in all of your currencies along trade dates and prices. Then it keeps a nice log of what is up and what is down.

    Yep...that's the same app I've been using.

    #713 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Wow, things have been flat since last night after the derivatives launch. I was doing alright buying and selling the swings yesterday, but my buy order has just been sitting there.
    Oh well, worst case scenario is that I've paid myself back for my investment and I still have some BTC left.

    Litecoin has skyrocketed

    #720 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Funny, I thought about dumping my BTC and going Litecoin on the weekend but chickened out. I'm still up 60% but I'm beginning to think the BTC bullet train is over for now but it's hard to cut bait.

    Well I can tell you that since I got in my BTC is currently up 159%
    My Litecoin is up 200% over the exact same timeframe.
    My Ether is only up 42% but I still like the long term prospects on that one. (Only 42%...lol)

    I have no plans to alter any of my positions...but I'm not a "trader".

    #721 2 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    I can single-handedly destroy Bitcoin's value. I will invest in it starting today. Prepare for the great crash of 2017.

    Underspin we must be in the Twilight Zone because you sir are UP!

    #729 2 years ago

    My off the cuff recommendation to people is:

    1)Do some research before investing.
    2)Start off with 5-20% of your current portfolio depending on your risk tolerance and comfort level with cryptocurrencies.
    3) Never put in more than you are able to take a total loss on. Frankly no one knows if this is a bubble or not. If it's a bubble no one knows when it will pop.

    #731 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Gonna be a wild ride for the entire world.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/people-are-taking-out-mortgages-to-buy-bitcoin-says-joseph-borg.html
    "We've seen mortgages being taken out to buy bitcoin. … People do credit cards, equity lines," said Borg, president of the North American Securities Administrators Association, a voluntary organization devoted to investor protection. Borg is also director of the Alabama Securities Commission.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    #736 2 years ago
    Quoted from ninjabones:

    John F Kennedy's father (Joseph Kennedy)had a method to identify a bubble; when a shoe shine boy gave him a stock tip in 1929, he sold everything and and shorted the market. Does 15 pages of bitcoin analysis on a pinball forum suggest that we've hit that shoe shine moment?

    Nope...not yet. Most of the people in my small town still have ZERO clue what Bitcoin is or cryptocurrencies or a blockchain and they certainly aren't invested. So we have a ways to go yet.

    #740 2 years ago

    .

    #746 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    My Litecoin is up 200% over the exact same timeframe.

    Correction...392%...one day later.

    I'm expecting a correction soon.

    #748 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Anyone into any of the crypto based stocks? I've been doing really well with RIOT (up 100% in the last 2 days), SING (pot and crypto, what could go wrong!), and MGTI.

    My only fear there is it's not a form of diversification. If this is a bubble and the bubble pops they all go down with the ship.

    #751 2 years ago
    Quoted from BeaglePuss:

    Are you planning on moving your LTC to something else? I think I'm going to hodl everything for now, but I'm open to insight.

    I'm a holder...not a trader. I made my initial play (40% Bitcoin, 35% Ether, 25% Litecoin) and I'm letting it ride. My Litecoin alone has exceeded my total initial investment. Sure at some point I'll sell a little to reduce my overall exposure but this whole play was a risk/reward gamble. Going for a big reward or risk losing it all. At least I know exactly the amount I can lose and was prepared to do so going in.

    #753 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    'Bitcoin Jesus' explains his vision from the beach:
    » YouTube video
    I think the 'wars' between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash are more interesting than the current spike/attention in Bitcoin Core.

    The biggest thing I have against Bitcoin cash is it's not decentralized! That's huge (IMHO). Now you need to trust the people running it...I don't.
    I think Roger Ver is an asshole. It might go up but I'm not buying any.

    #755 2 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Hummmmm........ETH is way up and LTC has pulled back a little today. I'm wondering if it would be a good time to sell some ETH and buy LTC with the proceeds?

    Down a little? I'm seeing LTC at $319.

    #762 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I was going to dip my toe into the bitcoin market but since it’s gone up 10,000% or whatever I think it’s more risky, less room to run.

    Maybe yes...maybe no. We are certainly at the beginnings of a mania phase right now. So there will be a correction at some point. The big questions are: How long can this mania phase last? When it crashes will it totally crash, or just correct and then march upwards again?

    A lot of signs point towards a big correction and then back up again. But...that doesn't help with telling us how long the mania phase will last (this is a global phenomenon...not just the US). No one knows. It could "correct" any minute...or go to 100k+ (for Bitcoin). Odds are once it corrects it could take several years to get back to same valuations...if it really shoots up before the dump. It's a risky guessing game.

    #769 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    When people preach about "currency of the future" and why you should buy now.. that's gonna be scam territory.

    Agreed. Has anyone in this thread done that?

    This is a risky game we are playing. Will it be the future of currency? I have no idea. I personally think some form of cryptocurrency will be the future of currency...but not necessarily any of the coins that exist today.

    #771 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    i have a bit. i do believe blockchain-based digital currency has an amazing future for transactions. there are tons of advantages.

    You've never encouraged anyone to "buy now".

    #778 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Which is basically the same thing

    I disagree.

    #779 2 years ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    Please don't derail a non-pinball thread.
    I would dabble in the crypto, but I don't see a way to get in that I like. If my local bank/broker acted like a casino and said they would process my transactions as they do my securities I would. I want to walk up and say here is $5K, put it on Ether. Cash it in when either on this date, when it hits this price or when I call you. And at the end of year send me a 1099.
    As a hobbyist I would love to throw a couple bills into a machine and watch the little transactions add up. And if it didn't cover or by much shrug my shoulders and walk. But where is it going and how do I cash out? I would not trust giving my personal information and a bank account number to a "Group on the web" with no support, accountability or recourse.
    I guess that is part of the trust and globalization of the system and the value. And I just feel without punitive controls people inherently are greedy to the point of being [dare I say it], unscrupulous.

    You wouldn't give your bank account number to anyone. You hold your cryptocurrency...not the exchange and not a bank...you.

    #781 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    I bought some TRON (TRX) about a month ago. I did the most minimal amount of research on it and bought a small amount. Now I kinda wish I loaded up, because it's been skyrocketing.
    https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tron/
    I still don't know anything about it, so I have no concept on whether it's just on a pump and dump path right now or it's turning into the next Ethereum.

    Just skimmed their "white paper" (https://dn-peiwo-web.qbox.me/Tron-Whitepaper-1031-V18-EN.pdf). Sounds noble and a little grandiose. Can't say I love their chances.

    #783 2 years ago
    Quoted from Gerrard17:

    Perfect traits for Asian business markets..

    Could be...outside of my expertise.

    #785 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Don't be naive. Just because someone doesn't say it outright doesn't mean it's not there. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book... generate sales indirectly by raising awareness and setup the audience to make them draw the conclusion that they should get in, and don't delay or you may miss out! It plays out in so many cons...
    All these stories and blogs about how great bitcoin is and how "the sky is the limit" are not historical pieces Running around boasting to strangers about how hot and success you are for investing in crypto is self-serving because all prior buyers benefit from new money and interest in the product.
    It's not people just defending their own speculative purchases against external scrutiny. If it were, all they'd do is say "Scoreboard..." and laugh while counting their money.

    Meh...guess I'm not so easily persuaded/gullible. I'm responsible for handling my own finances... you're responsible for handling yours. I read both the negative and the positive... do a lot of research and then draw my own conclusions. Often times I'm wrong.

    #794 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    And how many people do you think are really holding onto their own wallets vs people who are using online wallets? Still have to give (and maintain) identity information and banking details in those exchanges to realize any value.. and most now are doing that up front, because they aren't mining themselves... but buying.
    When sites promote 'make sure you keep your recovery phase' as the backup strategy.. that is not really the same as keeping the wallet (addresses, and keys) offline yourself.
    As usual, convenience will erode security and promote lax behaviors that will create liabilities. It just comes with the turf of dealing with the general population.

    Not my problem if people don't know how to protect themselves. I'm not pushing this on anyone. Not my mom, brother or sister...not my friends...nobody. My wife knows I'm playing in the market but does not want to know the details (she does know how much I put at risk). I'm far from being a "pumper".

    Not to mention for every pumper that is out there, there's also someone screaming TULIPS.

    EVERYONE should know by now that this is a high risk market. If they don't that's on them.

    #800 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Not sure how bitcoin would be immune to inflation: if the price of bread increases, you'll still need more bitcoin.

    The "theory" / assumption is that Bitcoins value will always outpace (USD) inflation (if it becomes a usable currency). Therefore you would need less bitcoin for the rising cost of bread...etc...

    #801 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Recheck your math.

    I count 0 pumpers and at least 6 Tulip screamers in this thread.

    I meant...in the world...not this thread. For every "pumping" article there's a "tulip" article. If you're only reading one side...well good luck to you. I personally think they are both wrong (as usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle) gauging where that middle ground is, is the really tough part.

    #803 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    So now we have invented something with infinitely positive returns? Getting more far-fetched every day.

    Only as infinite as the devaluation of the dollar. Actually all it needs to do is hold it's value vs the dollar to make that loaf of bread cheaper every year.

    Again...that's the future/hope. 10,000 miles to go and 1000 hurdles to jump before that becomes a reality.

    #811 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    It will be when the next mt gox situation happens and your portfolio gets pummeled because of the backlash... or the rash of "I lost my millions..." wallet stories gain too much press and it slow things down. The public perception of bitcoin IS your concern since that is the only thing driving it.
    The point is it really doesn't matter how far you can take security if the bulk of the pack isn't... and the ecosystem is promoting lax behaviors... it creates a tinderbox that is ripe to burn.

    Which is one reason (one of many) why I've posted over and over again:

    Quoted from Astropin:

    This is a risky game we are playing.

    #814 2 years ago
    Quoted from bkbirge:

    I don't know if this has been posted in the thread before, hard to stomach wading through all the argumentative posts, but this article discusses the question of intrinsic value in bitcoin and how it's not just "make work" for monopoly money. The article itself is about the concept of triple accounting and gives you an idea of why the big financial companies are investing heavily into this technology, even as they denigrate bitcoin as a currency ...
    https://hackernoon.com/why-everyone-missed-the-most-important-invention-in-the-last-500-years-c90b0151c169

    Great article...thanks.

    #818 2 years ago

    I disagree that Litecoin was a "pump & dump" by Lee. I think he was really having issues with "conflicts of interest" promoting Litecoin while also holding it...that is why he sold (if you notice A: he didn't hold a massive amount and B: he gave some of the sale to charity). He will also continue working on and promoting Litecoin full time...without holding any.

    Roger Ver on the other hand is a total pump & dump douchebag and should be looked at by authorities very very closely.

    #846 2 years ago

    For me this is not surprising...at all. Probably good for the crypto market that this happens now instead of 6 months from now... which would have resulted in a much larger crash.

    Things will shake out and then slowly rebound (IMO). My prediction (and that's all it is) is BTC will end 2018 higher than it ever peaked in 2017.

    #855 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    The SEC is getting more agressive about shutting down unregistered ICOs as are most other countries.

    Good! I hope they do. It's gotten a little beyond carried away with the ICO's...and everyone adding "Blockchain" to their name as a total money grab.

    #856 2 years ago

    "Ledger X Trader Pays $1M to Peg a Bitcoin-Based Futures Contract at $50,000 for December 2018"

    https://news.bitcoin.com/a-ledger-x-bitcoin-contract-is-pegged-for-50k-amid-this-weeks-price-decline/

    "According to Ledger X, the long-term trade was the “first of its kind” held on the exchange for a sum that large. The Wall Street Journal details the trader had to put up $1 million USD to purchase the long bet, and if the price of bitcoin is below the $50K on that specified date, the investor will lose that money."

    Now that's gambling! Gotta love it.

    #859 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    people do the same shit on the stock market. are people really under the impression speculation and gambling don't take place all over wall street?

    That's true...but I would still consider Bitcoin to be far more speculative than soybeans or pork bellies...especially that far out and that big of a prediction. Maybe I'm way off.

    Of course if the price goes above $50,000 on that date he/she/they stand to make many X their 1 million.

    #865 2 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    I didn't say that at all. It is being used for money laundering and various other criminal activities though, and that's a big part of the popularity. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the DEA has a few. Have a read....
    https://www.dea.gov/docs/DIR-040-17_2017-NDTA.pdf

    Poppycock

    #888 2 years ago

    I think we just saw the "bear trap" phase on your first chart.

    #893 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    IMHO You should be able to buy hookers and blow with BTC or USD.

    I would use Monero for those.

    #895 2 years ago

    You undershot it.

    #922 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    for a total investment of $59.36. So for less than the cost of lunch

    Lunch costs more than $60?

    I make a decent living but I'm not eating prime rib for lunch most days. PB&J at home is far more likely to happen than a $60 lunch.

    I don't think lunch would cost me $60 even if I was a billionaire. Of course if I was a billionaire I'd still be wearing blue jeans (in my Aston Martin )

    #959 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Just because bycice sharing (or crypto currency) may be a good thing there is not need of hundreds or thousands of companies/coins.

    Of course...which is why "most" crypto currencies will go to zero. I don't think too many would argue that.

    #967 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    i don't think bragging about wealth is an effective move anywhere. i grant you Pinside is richer than your average forum, but i disagree that it's necessarily more intelligent. there is not as strong a correlation between wealth and intelligence as rich people tend to think there is. some of the smartest people i know are actually pretty poor (and i know a lot of very wealthy people).

    "intrinsic value" is a loaded term. a dollar has no intrinsic value, either. do you avoid consuming electricity to make dollars?
    and the truth that most people don't want to admit is neither does gold. gold's use in industrial applications is completely trivial relative to its market value. and you know what? a long history of being used as a store of wealth does not constitute "intrinsic value" either. that's just tradition. furthermore,"intrinsic value" is a completely useless term, wielded solely to hypocritically bolster older currencies against newer ones. it's also useless in practical terms: if the world ever reaches a cataclysmic point where financial system collapsed and the only currencies worth anything were those with "intrinsic value", then three quarters of us would likely be dead already from the nuclear holocaust anyway. i want to make it clear that my investment portfolio is utterly unconcerned with planning for that eventuality. similarly, my portfolio strategy is not based around the possibility of alien invasion, zombie apocalypse, or the sun spontaneously exploding, either. my future financial plans are for the world i'm actually likely to be living in.
    gold is backed by nothing more than tradition. dollars are backed by the institution of the U.S. Government. Bitcoin is backed by the blockchain and its distributed public ledger. ultimately, though, all three only hold value as a result of abstract human concepts, and the truth is that worldwide momentum is, in practical terms, far more important to their value than any other factor.

    this is wrong. there's no self-selection at work in this particular case, only because bitcoin has risen over 1,000% in the last year. just about anyone who has taken part is a wild success story right now. it's almost impossible, over the last few years, to have not made a huge profit margin on whatever you've put in. of course, past performance is not indicator of the future! i'm NOT saying it is impossible to lose money or that it will go up forever! and i want to re-iterate (for the hundredth time on this thread) that it's a high-risk investment that could go down at any time and in my opinion shouldn't make up a large percentage of anyone's investments. but the point is, there are probably very few people here sheepishly holding their tongues because they've lost money on bitcoin - if you've been in at all over the last few years, you're almost automatically up by a ton. (well, unless you lost the keys to your wallet or were the victim of theft or something).
    edit: actually it has been down from its all-time high over the last couple weeks, but over the last year, it is still up over 1,000%.

    dude anyone with the qualities you are describing is destined for ruin no matter what. yes, people with uncontrollable gambling addictions should not gamble. point taken i guess? most people aren't gambling addicts, though.
    i hope you have the exact same level of absurd vitriol and fatalism for mutual funds and the stock market, because they are pretty much the same thing. retirement funds are all evil, deadly, suicide-inducing gambling addictions if you're addicted to putting all your money into high-risk ventures. yes, ANY market can go up and down. that's what makes them investments. there are plenty of high-risk mutual funds, hedge funds, and stocks available to anyone with a 401k.
    the advice i've always received from financial experts is that a healthy portfolio contains a variety of safe and risky investments. if your friends lost their asses by betting the farm on all risky stuff, i'm sorry, but they're stupid. my mining represents less than one tenth of one percent of my total net worth. Do not blame me (or bitcoin) for dipshits being irresponsible with their money. I've been both preaching and practicing pretty responsibly, i think.
    hopeless gambling addicts are not my responsibility, and are kind of irrelevant to this discussion.
    investing in cryptocurrency is on the extreme risk / extreme reward end of the investment spectrum. nobody should be basing their future financial security on it. for me, mining coins has been a fun and extremely profitable endeavor. i'm happy to chat about it or share what i've learned. but if someone else ignores my advice and ends up broke ... i am not going to blame myself.

    Post of the thread! Nice one Pez; couldn't agree more.

    #987 2 years ago
    Quoted from wcbrandes:

    in fact Im gonna guess there will be a gold backed crypto currency coming. I wonder what that may do to the rest of them!

    Umm....there are several already fully backed by gold.

    #1062 2 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    I'm a newbie to all this and maybe my understanding is limited, but given that nothing prevents anybody from creating their own currency, and that most of its value is based on the confidence people have towards it (on the speculation end of things, it's rather that somebody else will be willing to pay more for it, but let's forget about that part for now), what happens if or when Google or Apple announce their own crypto?
    I'm guessing it's going to shoot to the very top of the heap instantly and all others will crash, unless one or some of them are a "gateway" currency to get the Google or Apple coin, such as BTC or XRP?
    Isn't it a bit preposterous to think that one of the small alt-coins will somehow "win" the crypto-battle and that those giants will sit by and watch it all go? Unless I'm missing something I'd think that Google is secretly working on their own crypto to make sure it's 100% fullproof and as perfect as they can make it, they put it out there and keep a 10% to create billions of dollars from thin air?

    The single biggest thing Bitcoin and some of the others have is their Decentralized formation. An Amazon coin would be controlled/manipulated by Amazon...etc...

    That's why any coin created by the central banking system or a major company would never be as legitimate as Bitcoin.

    Not saying you're wrong and that an "Amazon coin" wouldn't be successful...but at the same time I don't think they could knock out Bitcoin and might be forced to work with it along with their own.

    #1102 2 years ago

    Coinbase dispels rumors of adding Ripple (XRP) and Ripple drops 20%.

    Co-founder and chairman of Ripple Chris Larsen currently worth 118 Billion (on paper).

    #1104 2 years ago

    Multiple Bitcoin debit card providers suspend service under orders of Visa - https://tnw.to/2Cvzarz

    #1108 2 years ago

    Tron, The $14 Billion Whitepaper With No Product - http://www.trustnodes.com/2018/01/05/tron-14-billion-whitepaper-no-product

    "It is a nice idea, but its implementation in a truly decentralized manner while having the speed and convenience of centralized services is very difficult, if at all possible, to achieve at this stage. Which might perhaps be why Tron doesn’t even offer an alpha, as far as we are aware, let alone a full on product, for us to see just how it all works."

    #1112 2 years ago
    Quoted from tatman9999:

    I bought on Bleutrade HTML . Bought 650,000 coins at .0000003. It is now at .000030

    So you're telling us you turned 19.5 cents into $19.50?

    #1113 2 years ago