(Topic ID: 327710)

Some Switches in Column Not Working

By wastedthelight

3 months ago

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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 44 days ago by frunch
  • No one calls this topic a favorite


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#1 3 months ago

I've gone through many forms and videos, but they always talked about an entire row or column being out. My issue is that I have 5 out of 8 switches in the same column not working on my Flash. Only the three bumpers consistently work on Switch Matrix column 3. What I find most crazy is these three bumpers are not even wired in order, switches between them don't register. Every now and then though I can get the other 5 to register, but it's very very rare.

I've traced down the green/orange and confirmed a good solder connection at every point. Also the white stripe cable for the rows look good too at each switch.

I took the molex off of the board, pulled out the green/orange wire and tested by attaching the single wire to the board without the molex connector, same issue. I then pulled a different column wire (green/black) and directly attached to the molex pin on the board, allowing me to use different switches in test mode to get the non-working switch numbers to display (so switch 33 would display 17 on test). So this tells me that it's not a board issue, right?

No other switches outside of column 3 have issues.

Another fun fact. If I hold down a switch that isn't working and then trigger a bumper, I get bumper points and the non-registering same column switch points.

Attaching photos of matrix, and manual where I noted which order the green/orange connects to each switch.

Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks!

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#2 3 months ago

You said switch 11 would display 17 if you swapped column #2 and #3 wires, is that correct or a typo? If you swapped column wire #2 and #3 at the board connector, then activating switch #11 should give you switch #19, not #17, according to the matrix chart (white/orange ROW wire should be attached to one side of #11 upper left standup and also to one side of #19 right jet bumper)
It doesn't matter the order of the column switches as long as the correct row wire is attached to the other side if the switch.

#3 3 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

You said switch 11 would display 17 if you swapped column #2 and #3 wires, is that correct or a typo?

Sorry, yes that was a typo. Shouldn't have wrote that so late at night/morning. Ha. So clear this up, if I take GRN/BLK wire and attach where GRN/ORN goes instead, switch 33 will register as 17 100% of the time. So that tells me it's not a board issue. Same for the rest, GRN/BLK will trigger 21-24 without a problem using switches 37-40.

#4 3 months ago

Ah, another thing I just tested, if I take GRN/ORN and attach where GRN/BLK should be, the same switches fail to register anything to the corresponding GRN/BLK . Bumper switch's still work and display correct corresponding number on GRN/BLK.

#5 3 months ago

Check continuity with a meter from switch to switch in the column. Just because you see a wire attached doesn't necessarily mean it is good. You also did not mention switch diodes, did you verify each switch has a diode, it is oriented correctly, not broken, etc.?

#6 3 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Check continuity with a meter from switch to switch in the column. Just because you see a wire attached doesn't necessarily mean it is good. You also did not mention switch diodes, did you verify each switch has a diode, it is oriented correctly, not broken, etc.?

Continuity at every switch is good, I got tone when triggered by the switch....toned out jingle bells, haha. Each switch also has a diode.

During one of my tests just now, all switches worked. Then I triggered a bumper and then the five went out again, bumpers continued to work. Rebooted, only triggered switches known to have issues, dead again. Also if they are working, if I reboot the machine they tend to be dead again when it comes back on. I haven't found any consistency. Just turned

#7 3 months ago

No, I did not mean to check the switches themselves. I meant to tone out the column switch wires between each switch. That is how I found a bad switch column wire on one of my games. I'm thinking there is a possibly an intermittent flaky wire/or solder connection not passing along a good signal along the column daisy chain.

#8 3 months ago

One thing to note: the pop bumpers have 2 switches--

--the first switch activates the bumper, it's the one that gets closed when the ball rolls over the skirt/platter at the base of the pop bumper (that switch is labeled as a Special Switch Input in the schematics, you can trace from the activation switches back to connector J13 on the driver board)

--the other switch scores points when the pop bumper is activated (*those* are the switches on the switch matrix found at J2/column J3/row on the driver board)

The bumpers are firing properly, which tells us the activation switches (aka Special Switch Inputs at J13) are good. Are those bumpers scoring the correct amount of points every activation, though? It's possible that they're firing consistently but scoring inconsistently (they may only be scoring when the rest of the switches in the column are also working)... Just to drive my point home: You could even unplug the switch matrix column and row connectors (J2+J3, the green wires and the white wires) from the driver board and you'll see the pops will still pop--they just won't score.

So with all that said, I'm suspicious of the connector for the columns (J2). If you're 100% certain the green-orange wire is firmly attached at all 8 switches and each of those switches diodes are installed with correct orientation and legs aren't shorting to anything nearby and are also firmly attached to the switches--If it hasn't already been done, I'd reflow the solder on that connector and see if that fixes it. I'm starting to suspect a cracked/cold solder joint there. (Sounds like wayout440 is ahead of me in that suspicion )

1 month later
#9 44 days ago

So I stopped working on this issue while I had the game torn apart to install a Hardtop. After putting it all back together the switches have been working. Knock on cabinet.....Maybe with all the work on the playfield and connections during the process I somehow fixed a short unknowingly.

#10 44 days ago

Right on! Check back if the problem returns and we'll see what we can do.

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