that's an interesting statement. does that relate to working on them?
if so, there's some things i find easier than gotts. for example the score motor switches are all easy to get to and the bottom board has built in legs that allow it to be lifted and propped up for easier access.
backglass bulbs are also easier to change because all that needs to be done is to release 2 clamps and the backglass comes out the front as opposed to the rear.
i also prefer the playfield glass being in a metal frame that lifts straight up. for me this is a better situation since my games are in a basement and having enough clearance in the front to slide the glass out isn't always an option but this only applies to ballys from around '70 i think and later.

i understand. it would be interesting to hear about that from an operator's point of view from back in the day or someone on here with a bunch of both brands of machines. my thinking (from limited experience) is that under the hood they're all just relays, coils, and springs and that any favorable bias toward gottlieb may be due to the higher esteem in which they're held because of all the great playing machines they came up with.
subject for another thread i suppose.

after reading the above posts regarding big ben, i had to go read the reviews on IPDB. pretty harsh ratings. too bad, i like the artwork and theme.

I was a Gottlieb only sorta guy till I picked up a Bally "Expressway" and realized I was selling myself short with my Gott only collection. Anyway, Bally had tons of features that I hadn't seen on any of the other pins I'd played.
Zip Flips, multi ball, ball save gates, asymmetrical play fields, up post between flippers, etc. plus I know you don't play the art but art/theme are a big factor to me. One feature that I think is extremely cool but only on Capersville as far as I know, is what's called the "Deep 4 Caper". It's basically an area controlled by a gate that shuts once the ball rolls in. Every time the white mushroom bumper is hit the ball advances down one space and can be viewed thru individual windows in the plastic covering the mech. On the 5th hit, the ball emerges into the shooter lane and is just one way of getting multiball on that game.
I now need to learn more about Williams pins.
image.jpg

Very cool. Yet another game I've never played.

That kickoff is definitely cool but I'd go gor the Sea Ray. The art, theme, and gameplay are all great.
Mine gets a few games on it more days than not.

if that blue chip were close, i'd be knocking at the door. i played one at the pacific pinball expo a few years back and remember thinking that's another reason i'm a fan of EMs-interesting themes that have nothing to do with a franchise.

a few minutes away from me but seems pricey even though the seller says it's a "good deal".
portland.craigslist.org link
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I think you're right, pinrescue seems to be the go-to place for reference. I looked it up on the Boston eBay records and 3 have been sold. Average price was 575 I think and high was 1725 or something like that. Looks like a cool game and normally I'd be tempted but have my eye on another pin at the moment and just paid for a playfield restoration.
There was a Jumping Jack local to me for 300. Contacted the seller twice but never heard back...

that's more in line with a price i was thinking. never liked the art on Mibs.

Bally "Expressway". Posted a month ago.
mattoon.craigslist.org link
00w0w_ag5DVmIlKFU_600x450.jpg

Wow, that's an impressive amount of what looks like professional work in that retheme. I still would prefer the original Gulfstream but this one may have been trashed.

i could see that price if it were the AAB Lucky Hand but not for the replay version...
kidding aside, great game and i have a bgresto backglass for my LH. i'd send a link to the seller of what a repro BG would cost and use that to bargain with. may knock off a bit on the price.
ok, just looked at the ad and the Bg is not pristine but a non pinhead seller would probably not think that flaking is any big deal...

well if you had to damage the cab, that was just about the best place to do it. don't get yourself worked up over the purchase. in time if you keep it, you'll grow to love it. i think that cab looks nice and for me cab condition is the least important because it's easiest thing to remedy and is hidden if placed between other pins. in other words, when considering playfield and backglass touch up, cab repair is the easiest to do to for the average person to get great results.
as for any mechanical issues, that's just part of owning an EM and is to be expected. especially when receiving a shipped pin. i'd guess at least half of mine had some issue once i set them up after being dropped off.
it may not be of much relief now but you learned some valuable lessons. the most important is about buying a pin sight unseen. pics are just pics at the end of the day and the seller can take them in such a way to minimize whatever they want and/or the inherent limitations of pics as opposed to seeing it with your own eyes. having said that, i buy most of my pins without seeing them as i figure many of us do. if you want a particular pin(s) to come up locally, it's likely to never happen so shipping is the only option.
good luck if you sell or keep.

IMO, you're too hung up on condition (which looks to be great) and not the overall package of the game such as game play. It's been decades since these rolled out of the factory door and no picture(s) will tell the whole story. If you're wanting pristine examples of a given EM then you're really cutting your choices drastically, setting yourself up for disappointment, and you should plan on spending much more than that pin would normally cost. It also means you should travel to see any machine you're considering buying or else you run the risk of another let down.
Now all this doesn't mean most of us EM fans don't care about cosmetic condition it just means that after awhile you accept the realities of the less than perfect condition of the overwhelming majority of EM pins. Many even prefer the patina.

i think you just need to give your EM or EMs in general more time. it seems you enjoy playing them and once they're set up, they're pretty much trouble free. there's a reason these things are still around and playing as well now as they did when they were first made and that's because they generally don't break. things just go out of adjustment or need cleaning.
now if you have no interest in working on them then i understand but if you're inclined to get under the hood, the basic operation and how things are controlled is pretty easy to understand and there's plenty of help on here in case you need it. you'll also get an appreciation for the genius of the designers and how all the game's logic is controlled by switches,relays, and steppers as opposed to computer chips. really cool stuff.

+1
plus it's very simple mechanical devices you'll be dealing with. you'll need a couple screwdrivers and something to clean contacts with, that'll cover the vast majority of maintenance.

Sweet Hearts is one of my all time favorites. Had a couple over the years and need to find another one of these days...

+1
My 3 Ballys are all Ted Zale designs.
I think he was ahead of the time not only in layout but features as well like zipper flippers, multiball, ball-save gates, up post b/t flippers, captive ball areas (Capersville) and something Ive never seen in person is the ball kickback in the left outlane. When that feature is lit, the ball goes down the left side as normal to drain but a hidden kicker kicks it back up and onto the playfield.

Yep, on my shortlist of 2 Bally's as well. My other was a rare Bally also but it's not a Zale design. Been looking for a long time and finally posted a want ad. Was contacted by an owner who had one for sale and now it's on its way here. The firework "light show" and mechanics behind it are really neat.

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Skyrocket&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick
It's the 1970 machine.

Chicago Coin "Riviera".
portland.craigslist.org link
Don't see many CC pins come up and they seem to have not exactly the best reputation for being fun.

i don't think the ad is weird either. he doesn't need to sell it according to him and is prolly tired of nickel and diming tire kickers telling him how much work it'll take and why he should give it away.
i've never played Gulfstream but it's always spoken of positively. i'd go take a look for sure.

hobbyists aren't the market for pinrescue.

never played that one but most of my machines are AAB and I don't have any issues with them being too easy. all the posts are set to the conservative positions and free balls via score values are set to the upper end of the range. I didn't do this because the games were easy but because that's just how I like the settings.
a few people continually claim they're all too easy in general which I don't believe is going to be the case for the vast majority. these machines were designed to make money so I can't see the manufacturers making games easyto beat. of course, us collectors are not the demographic that the games were designed for so its logical to assume that there's a greater percentage of collectors who are good at pinball as opposed to the general public was back in the day.

post '64 some very desirable AAB's would be Dimension, Lucky Hand, Diamond Jack, and Captain Card. i'm biased of course because these are in my collection but they are definitely sought after. also Dimension and Captain Card have drop targets that reset unlike their replay counterparts.

There's definitely others to include Flipper Pool and Mini Pool. I need to head back to the PHOF to play some more pins in general of course but also AABs.
Good luck on the mod to your 2001. Seems like the how-to has been pretty well covered here so that'll be a big help. Post how it goes.
Just got through this morning doing some adjustments on my Bally Skyrocket. The wiper arms on the Skyrocket feature's motor were landing between the rivets, flippers were slightly out of position, new flipper rebuild kits, and plastic coil sleeves were installed in the slingshots, pop bumpers, and flippers. I digress...

i couldn't get the link for the Sea Ray to work but it/was going for 200. helluva deal.

Lived most of my life in south Louisiana and lots of interesting people down there, great food of course, but not much in the way of pinball machines.

For the handful of years that I was down there and collecting EMs, I almost never saw them on CL or anywhere else. I'm sure there were some but I'd still say they were rare in general. Growing up down there I definitely remember seeing them (post-EM machines) in arcades but from a collecting/hobby or just seeing them in people's homes over the years, I can't think of one instance.

That's a cool sticker and Magazine Street is great to be on. Rumor has it there's a warehouse full of EM games around NOLA but supposedly the owner isn't keen on selling any.

No, Katrina was before I was into pinball machines and I actually inquired about the warehouse along with a few others. The answer that we got was yes, there's a warehouse full and the owner originally had them for sale but then changed his mind. That was back in 2011 I think.

communication is definitely lacking with bgresto as has been discussed many times.
there's a guy in WA state that also does backglasses, similar process. i've had a backglass from both vendors and they're the same quality IMO.
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