(Topic ID: 189817)

Soldering new flipper assembly - help please.

By Damien

6 years ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 6 years ago

    Hey all,

    I'm about to replace my first flipper assembly, and just wanted to make sure I have the right tool.

    I have a soldering iron, but need solder. Is there any specific solder I should be looking for?

    Also, for the wire strippers, would something like this do the trick:

    https://www.amazon.ca/Capri-Tools-CP20013-Professional-Stripper/dp/B01018D07K/ref=sr_1_1

    And finally, when soldering wires back into the coils, should I tin the wire and diode, and then stick them together with heat, or should I lay solder onto it while they're together? What's the best approach?

    Thanks

    #2 6 years ago

    These wire strippers auto adjust to wire gauge & cuts & strips just by closing the grips:
    https://www.amazon.ca/Neiko-01924A-Stripper-Self-Adjusting-10-26AWG/dp/B000IYTCG6/ref=sr_1_7
    Canadian Tire has ones like them.

    #3 6 years ago

    I would just use a rosin core solder. For putting it all back together, honestly whatever is easiest. If I'm working by myself, i'll just lay the assembly down on its side to balance and apply the solder and some pressure to hold it. Pretty easy!

    #4 6 years ago

    Not sure where you are in the city but take a trip up to Sayal electronics if you can. They are on the east side of Victoria Park just south of Steeles. They have everything you need and very cheap prices. Just grab a basic wire stripper that strips small gauge stranded wire and get some 60/40 or 63/37 resin core solder. Either one works fine. Install the diode onto the lugs, tin the wires and then solder it all togther on the lugs. Don't think you need to tin the diode legs but certainly won't hurt anything if you do.

    #5 6 years ago

    You guys are going to have to bare with me... I've never done this before, in fact I've never soldered. But I have a friend coming over who is a pro, so I'm planning to learn and take this on myself next time. I've learned a lot in the 4 months of being in this hobby

    What are lugs? As far as I can tell from reading, I'd just strip the wires, tin them, and then solder to the 3 diode legs on the coil. And of course solder the EOS connection.

    When doing the EOS, should I wrap the wire around the circular opening and the solder, or just tin and heat against it?

    Lastly, when I get that all on, and I'm adjusting and tightening the flipper bat, do I put the Williams spacer tool on the playfield under the bat?

    Or do I do it like this:

    http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/wpcflip8.jpg

    I just loosened up the pawl on my IJ flipper to move it down, and then when I tightened it up and tested it, the first time I hit the flipper, it went up and ended up moving higher than I had set it. Had to loosen again, adjust again, and finally it worked. Also if I loosen that pawl all the way, I can't pull the flipper off the playfield. Feels like it's stuck in the bushing.

    Any thoughts?

    Really appreciate all the help guys

    #6 6 years ago

    Kudos to you for getting in there and learning. A word of caution, coils are high powered and one thing wired incorrectly can lead to a very expensive fix. My very first coil repair resulted in it being miss wired (careless) that cost me some board repairs. Just like carpentry, check, check again and check again after that that the diode is pointing correctly and the wires are going to the correct lugs (silver tabs). I'm curious about the coil. Is it new? Most direct replacements have the blocking diodes already installed. As for soldering the eos switch, it's up to what you're comfortable doing. The wire get hot quick. Hooking them through the eye usually frees up a hand to solder with. As long as there is solid contact (give it a tug after it cools a few seconds)you're fine. Just be sure the excess wire wrapping around the eyelet isn't so long it could contact other metal surfaces and ground itself out.

    #7 6 years ago

    Check out VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers. Lots of useful info there and don't be afraid to ask questions. Lots of great people here who will more than help you out.

    #8 6 years ago

    Sorry, I'm on my blackberry and find it hard to post links. Hopefully someone could post a link to Vid's thread.

    #9 6 years ago

    Btw... what game are we talking about?

    -1
    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    Btw... what game are we talking about?

    IJ (Williams).

    I bought the full replacement assemblies shown here:

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172

    So really all I need to do is screw it in, solder, and line the flipper up.

    I'm guessing the wires should go in the same place if the coil part number is the same?

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from Skins:

    Kudos to you for getting in there and learning.

    Cheers!

    I guess we all start somewhere, but I definitely have an interest is learning about how all of this works.

    See the part I'm using in the post above.

    #12 6 years ago

    As far as connecting the wires to the new coil, just confirm that the diodes are oriented the same if you are referencing the old assembly wiring (look at which side the band is on). The power goes to the banded side of the diode.

    I like to get a good mechanical connection first then add solder. Insert wire thru the hole and bend around lug. More than one wire may not fit through at same time but you can still wrap the wires around the lug. When you add solder you want to minimize any movement while the solder cools to avoid a bad joint. Tinning the wire is ok but its recommended to add some new solder to the joint as well - the flux from the rosin core solder will help you get a good joint as it cleans off any oxidation at the connection. When you are done the joint should be shiny and smooth and feel secure when you tug on the wire.

    Best part is if you don't like it just desolder and try again. Good luck!

    #13 6 years ago

    Someone posted this another thread, but I can't remember who.

    Soldering (resized).pngSoldering (resized).png

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from Completist:

    As far as connecting the wires to the new coil, just confirm that the diodes are oriented the same if you are referencing the old assembly wiring (look at which side the band is on). The power goes to the banded side of the diode.
    I like to get a good mechanical connection first then add solder. Insert wire thru the hole and bend around lug. More than one wire may not fit through at same time but you can still wrap the wires around the lug. When you add solder you want to minimize any movement while the solder cools to avoid a bad joint. Tinning the wire is ok but its recommended to add some new solder to the joint as well - the flux from the rosin core solder will help you get a good joint as it cleans off any oxidation at the connection. When you are done the joint should be shiny and smooth and feel secure when you tug on the wire.
    Best part is if you don't like it just desolder and try again. Good luck!

    Here's a photo of the old assembly and the new.

    I know this is likely a moronic question, but I see things about connecting to the banded side (which I understand is the side shown here with the diodes).

    But it your putting the wire through the lug holes, does it make a connection to the entire lug, top and bottom?

    IMG_20170526_131754 (resized).jpgIMG_20170526_131754 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20170526_131925 (resized).jpgIMG_20170526_131925 (resized).jpg

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    does it make a connection to the entire lug, top and bottom?

    Yes.

    LTG : )

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Yes.
    LTG : )

    Let's go for one more stupid question!

    Do I put solder on top and bottom of lug?

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    Let's go for one more stupid question!

    Do I put solder on top and bottom of lug?

    Not stupid if you don't know and want to be sure.

    Doesn't matter top or bottom, though it will flow better from the top. Put the wire in the hole, heat the joint and flow solder on, let cool, give it a couple yanks to be sure it's tight. Then you are done.

    LTG : )

    #19 6 years ago

    The old coil looks good to me. Why are you changing it?

    #20 6 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Not stupid if you don't know and want to be sure.
    Doesn't matter top or bottom, though it will flow better from the top. Put the wire in the hole, heat the joint and flow solder on, let cool, give it a couple yanks to be sure it's tight. Then you are done.
    LTG : )

    Put it in the hole and wrap it around the lug, or just through the hole and the solder in place?

    Also, when stripping the wire, how much exposed length should I be giving myself?

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    Put it in the hole and wrap it around the lug, or just through the hole and the solder in place?

    I like to stick the wire in and bend the end over a little to help hold and make soldering easier.

    Quoted from Damien:

    Also, when stripping the wire, how much exposed length should I be giving myself?

    1/4 of an inch should be plenty. Once you learn, decide if you want a little more or a little less.

    LTG : )

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I like to stick the wire in and bend the end over a little to help hold and make soldering easier.

    1/4 of an inch should be plenty. Once you learn, decide if you want a little more or a little less.
    LTG : )

    Llyod, you're a stud!

    Appreciate every single reply you send. This forum is very lucky to have you.

    And hey, at this rate of me learning about pins, you might be calling me in to service your machines one day!!! Hahaha one can dream right?

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    Put it in the hole and wrap it around the lug, or just through the hole and the solder in place?

    You want as solid a physical connection as you can get prior to soldering. Two reasons for this. If the joint moves while the solder is cooling you risk a cold solder joint. The physical connection also helps resist damage done to the joint by vibration.

    In regards to the image above showing the soldering sequence here's a tip that will make your life a lot easier. When you add the solder to the joint place it briefly (less than a second, just enough for the solder to start melting) at the point where the iron's tip meets the joint then move the solder away from tip towards the opposite side of the joint. What this initial placement does is create a solder bridge which transfers heat more efficiently from the iron to the joint.

    This is not the same as melting the solder on the iron, which results in cold solder joints.

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    The old coil looks good to me. Why are you changing it?

    ^^^ THIS ^^^

    Seriously, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

    I suspect you have some flipper "problem" or issue and have decided to change the flipper assembly without correctly faultfinding.

    Why not tell us what the issue is FIRST before you make a bigger problem here? That old assembly looks good enough to go into a new machine.

    Swap two wires over (accidentally and very easy to so) and you will be up for expensive board repairs - think carefully please before doing this.

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from Homepin:

    ^^^ THIS ^^^
    Seriously, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
    I suspect you have some flipper "problem" or issue and have decided to change the flipper assembly without correctly faultfinding.
    Why not tell us what the issue is FIRST before you make a bigger problem here? That old assembly looks good enough to go into a new machine.
    Swap two wires over (accidentally and very easy to so) and you will be up for expensive board repairs - think carefully please before doing this.

    Appreciate that you're trying to save me some time and money, but I wanted to replace it all new, and get the experience.

    With the issues I'm having with the flipper on my MMR, I will troubleshoot and look to adjust parts before replacing.

    Thanks again.

    #26 6 years ago

    Ok, last things and I'm ready to take this on...

    Based on my photos of the old and new coil above, does it appear that all 3 wires would go right into the same position?

    And once I get it all together, and put the flipper bat in, where do I insert the flipper spacing tool? On the pf between the bat and pf?

    And for adjusting the position of the flipper with a toothpick. Any tips on keeping it in place as you tighten?

    Thanks again

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    Based on my photos of the old and new coil above, does it appear that all 3 wires would go right into the same position?

    Correct. You can see the banded sides of the diodes are facing the same direction as the original coil.

    Quoted from Damien:

    Any tips on keeping it in place as you tighten?

    The thing you should be more aware of is the level of tightening you will need. You're going to have to man up and really crank that thing down HARD. If you don;t it's going to become lose and you'll have to do it again.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Correct. You can see the banded sides of the diodes are facing the same direction as the original coil.

    The thing you should be more aware of is the level of tightening you will need. You're going to have to man up and really crank that thing down HARD. If you don;t it's going to become lose and you'll have to do it again.

    Like this? I cranked it to the point of resistance and you can see the bolt is bent.

    As for the spacing tool... Where does that go?

    IMG_20170526_130908 (resized).jpgIMG_20170526_130908 (resized).jpg

    #29 6 years ago
    Quoted from Damien:

    As for the spacing tool... Where does that go?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers Scroll down to the 17th post.

    LTG : )

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Correct. You can see the banded sides of the diodes are facing the same direction as the original coil.

    The thing you should be more aware of is the level of tightening you will need. You're going to have to man up and really crank that thing down HARD. If you don;t it's going to become lose and you'll have to do it again.

    Take this with a grain of salt. Not saying Law is wrong. What I am saying is I cranked down to the end of heaven and hell and sheared a bolt clean in half doing it. Know your limits - do not assume everything will hold no matter the level of force you give. When I did it, I thought I still had room/slack, and I found out very quickly - nope - not the case. And I did it by hand, no fancy battery powered tools where I pulled the trigger for too long or something silly, so yeah, just be careful.

    The OP's picture looks good enough. I wouldn't crank down much more.

    #31 6 years ago

    Success!!!! (Borat voice)

    Got the new flippers in and soldered it up nicely.

    Had a lot of fun with it and now I will be tackling all of the leaf switches next.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    What I am saying is I cranked down to the end of heaven and hell and sheared a bolt clean in half doing it.

    Sure diff'rent Strokes for Diff'rent Folks!

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