(Topic ID: 252162)

Soldering - connect above and below a board


By jimy_speedt

52 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 days ago by pinballinreno
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 52 days ago

    Hi,

    After the GI power connector “burned” on the interconnect board of my Dr Dude, I replaced the male connector.

    But the GI didn’t work fine afterwards. I found out that some tracks are starting from the connector above the board. And there is no more continuity from the bottom to the top on some pins. No current flows there.

    I would like to avoid tricky jumper wires. Isn’t it a way to get current to these tracks above the board ?

    Any help is welcome.

    Thanks
    FAA73D9C-C256-48B1-A351-8177D44BB504 (resized).jpeg

    #2 52 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    Hi,
    After the GI power connector “burned” on the interconnect board of my Dr Dude, I replaced the male connector.
    But the GI didn’t work fine. I found out that tacks are starting from the connector on the top of the board. And there is no more continuity from the bottom to the top on some pins. No current flows there.
    I would like to avoid tricky jumper wires. Isn’t it a way to get current to these tracks above the board ?
    Any help is welcome.
    Thanks[quoted image]

    If you are talking about failed traces on the circuit board, the only fix is jumper wire or thin copper tape soldered on.

    #3 52 days ago

    No sorry, the rings surrounding the pin do not communicate from the soldered part, i.e. the bottom, to the top of the board. Tracks them selves are ok.

    #4 52 days ago

    Pigtails.

    #5 52 days ago

    You need to use flux when you solder. You also need to use good Kester 63/37 rosin core solder. This makes the solder flow better, and will flow from the back side to the front side of the board.

    #6 52 days ago

    The holes are called "VIAS" and they do interconnect the tops and bottoms AND the middles (if you have multi-layer boards) If you have a connector where the pins pass all the way through the board and out the other side, then the pins will carry the load to the opposite side - but you have to use a lot of solder to fill up around the pins to get from the one side to the other and let it all heat up or you will not make a good connection. From what I see, the pad under the "I" of INPUT looks pretty bad. I don't envy the work ahead of you. You could use direct jumpers but I assume you have a connector that is supposed to go here?

    For what it is worth, I have done this kind of work for over 30+ years.

    #7 52 days ago

    Thank you for all the answers, the hole in front of the I has lost half of the ring. I put a copper adhesive tape.

    I have tried to make the solder flow through the board without success. Maybe making it more fluid as you say ?

    #8 52 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    Thank you for all the answers, the hole in front of the I has lost half of the ring. I put a copper adhesive tape.
    I have tried to make the solder flow through the board without success. Maybe making it more fluid as you say ?

    Honestly, unless you have done this before, I highly recommend you not attempt this repair. You can wreck this board in a heartbeat if you overheat the pads. Do you know anyone good with a soldering iron and is skilled in this kind of repair?

    #9 52 days ago

    Can you show me what the back side of this connection looks like? I may be able to walk you through a repair.

    #10 52 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    No sorry, the rings surrounding the pin do not communicate from the soldered part, i.e. the bottom, to the top of the board. Tracks them selves are ok.

    Ah.

    The repair is called a stitch.
    Place a few strands of fine bare wire in the hole, insert the new pin carefully keeping the small wires in place bend them over on each side(top and bottom), trim them, solder the wires and new pin all at once.

    Just make sure your stitch goes long enough to connect to the pad and adjoining trace.

    If the hole is too small for the pin and the wires, carefully drill out the hole slightly larger, or side drill with a small drill bit.

    #11 52 days ago

    To be honest, I hate these wires crossing the board, I will do it if no acceptable solution can be found

    4D66A7BD-DA57-4C89-8ABF-98D462067E01 (resized).jpeg
    #12 52 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    To be honest, I hate these wires crossing the board, I will do it if no acceptable solution can be found[quoted image]

    A good clean stitch is barely noticable and a proper repair.

    The solder covers it up.

    You have to use 63/37 solder and a bit of good flux.

    Clean off all solder and flux before you start the repair.

    Keep your temperatures very low.
    Just high enough to melt the solder properly.

    If the flux is turning black, you are too hot, or spent too much time there.

    Clean the area with isopropyl alcohol before you begin the work.

    A good clean surface yields the best result.

    Clean off all the flux with alcohol after you are done so that you can examine your work.

    #13 52 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    A good clean stitch is barely noticable and a proper repair.
    The solder covers it up.
    You have to use 63/37 solder and a bit of good flux.
    Clean off all solder and flux before you start the repair.
    Keep your temperatures very low.
    Just high enough to melt the solder properly.
    If the flux is turning black, you are too hot.
    Clean the area with isopropyl alcohol before you begin the work.
    A good clean surface yields the best result.

    A stitch is probably your best solution. You are in luck as this looks like a two-layer board (Top and Bottom copper only). You may need to scrape off some of the green coating leading away from the pads if you suspect they are bad and solder a wire over to a good, clean part of the copper trace. Good luck. It is possible.

    #14 52 days ago
    Quoted from MD_Pinball_Dude:

    A stitch is probably your best solution. You are in luck as this looks like a two-layer board (Top and Bottom copper only). You may need to scrape off some of the green coating leading away from the pads if you suspect they are bad and solder a wire over to a good, clean part of the copper trace. Good luck. It is possible.

    It's a great project for beginners to develop this skill.

    #15 52 days ago

    thank you

    Just to be sure I understand the process.

    I have Isopropyl, flux, can get these bare thin wires, have solder 60/40

    I have understood the principle of passing a few bare wires through and connect each end with the track(s) under and above the board. Then what is the sequence of actions ? When do I put flux, how, which quantity ? After that, do I put the new connector ? Do I heat the flux alone or do I melt it only by putting solder ? (I am used to soldering but not with the flux).

    Are we talking about working only from under the board, or is there any action on the top ?

    All your information is complete, but I do not exactly know what to do in sequence.

    Thanks again

    #16 52 days ago

    I watched a youtube vid from the eighties, which explains that pretty well. I will proceed when I get the appropriate material.

    Thanks again.

    #17 52 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    I watched a youtube vid from the eighties, which explains that pretty well. I will proceed when I get the appropriate material.
    Thanks again.

    You're welcome!

    #18 52 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    If you are talking about failed traces on the circuit board, the only fix is jumper wire or thin copper tape soldered on.

    This is not correct, the ideal repair is to install solid copper eyelets in the board to replace the broken vias, this essentially replaces the plating inside the hole. I'm starting to think I'm the last person on the planet that actually still does this.

    #19 52 days ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    This is not correct, the ideal repair is to install solid copper eyelets in the board to replace the broken vias, this essentially replaces the plating inside the hole. I'm starting to think I'm the last person on the planet that actually still does this.

    Yeah, buying eyelets and new pads and traces is very professional and perfect.

    Nowadays you can get peel and stick!

    Gone are the days of hand cutting copper pads and traces with an exacto knife...

    We used to do that when I worked at tandem.

    But the boards were $2500 each.
    Way cheaper to make them new again.

    But for a hobbyist a stitch is a good repair, and works well with tools and supplies on hand.

    #20 52 days ago

    Understandable, I'm just saying that the statement "the ONLY fix is jumper wire or thin copper tape soldered on." is just not true ... have to be careful with those absolute words as they are true only on very rare occasions

    If the OP wants the board absolutely perfect, he can peruse these type repairs.

    #21 52 days ago

    The latest one looks a very clean method.

    Because the Brexit, it is almost impossible to get parts coming from the US in a reasonable time. Parcels are stuck at customs.

    Am I right saying that a rivet must be inserted through the hole and have 2 conductive eyelets, one on each side ? I ll try to see whether they sell the tool here, also with a inner diameter which let the pin through.

    Great to get all this support !!!

    #22 51 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    The latest one looks a very clean method.
    Because the Brexit, it is almost impossible to get parts coming from the US in a reasonable time. Parcels are stuck at customs.
    Am I right saying that a rivet must be inserted through the hole and have 2 conductive eyelets, one on each side ? I ll try to see whether they sell the tool here, also with a inner diameter which let the pin through.
    Great to get all this support !!!

    Yes you can get the replacement parts to do a perfect job.

    But if not, a stitch is an acceptable repair.

    #23 51 days ago

    I've lifted a few pads doing board work. What materials should I keep on-hand to repair lifted pads?

    #25 51 days ago

    Thanks - Would the stitch method you describe work as well?

    #26 51 days ago

    Is copper tape a bad idea? A little more versatile and cost effective.

    amazon.com link »

    #27 51 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Thanks - Would the stitch method you describe work as well?

    Its a good repair if done right and with care.

    If the pad and via is blown adding a rivet and appying a stitch the adjoining trace is acceptable.

    Its not that pretty, but acceptable and works well.

    #28 51 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    If the pad and via is blown adding a rivet and appying a stitch the adjoining trace is acceptable.

    Its not that pretty, but acceptable and works well.

    I'm a visual learner, any chance you have a picture or two of this type repair?

    #29 51 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Is copper tape a bad idea? A little more versatile and cost effective.
    amazon.com link »

    It works but doesnt stick real well after heating it up sometimes. So, it can be a bit delicate unless you apply a coating over it.

    #30 51 days ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    I'm a visual learner, any chance you have a picture or two of this type repair?

    Maybe youtube will have something?

    But its not rocket science. If you ruin a through hole via, drill it out, glue in a tiny rivet.
    Then bend a wire through the hole on both sides (called a Z wire tecnique), stuff in your component or pin.

    solder everything together.

    I think clays guide has some great info in this.

    #31 51 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Maybe youtube will have something?
    But its not rocket science. If you ruin a through hole via, drill it out, glue in a tiny rivet.
    Then bend a wire through the hole on both sides (called a Z wire tecnique), stuff in your component or pin.
    solder everything together.
    I think clays guide has some great info in this.

    I'll have to use this technique next time.

    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    It works but doesnt stick real well after heating it up sometimes. So, it can be a bit delicate unless you apply a coating over it.

    I'm wondering if water thin superglue would be suitable with high heat. I'll keep this as an option!

    #32 51 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I'm wondering if water thin superglue would be suitable with high heat. I'll keep this as an option!

    I tried it and had bad results.

    High temp epoxy works better.

    #33 51 days ago

    Since there are so many questions on this I decided to post a video I found on the internet. I wasn't going to post this as the person performing the repair used a standard drill bit...this is fine for a single sided board, but is a BIG no-no on dual sided boards as this type of bit can break existing pads and tear circuit board traces on the back side of the board. A ball mill should ALWAYS be used when drilling through a double sided board.

    #34 51 days ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Since there are so many questions on this I decided to post a video I found on the internet. I wasn't going to post this as the person performing the repair used a standard drill bit...this is fine for a single sided board, but is a BIG no-no on dual sided boards as this type of bit can break existing pads and tear circuit board traces on the back side of the board. A ball mill should ALWAYS be used when drilling through a double sided board.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=188&v=jg9fDm-uUlg

    Great man !! I thought I was a stupid knob, but the subject comes up. Thanks !!!!

    #35 51 days ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Since there are so many questions on this I decided to post a video I found on the internet. I wasn't going to post this as the person performing the repair used a standard drill bit...this is fine for a single sided board, but is a BIG no-no on dual sided boards as this type of bit can break existing pads and tear circuit board traces on the back side of the board. A ball mill should ALWAYS be used when drilling through a double sided board.

    Great find!

    2 weeks later
    #36 37 days ago

    I managed to get the board operational after stitch repair. It work perfect. Thanks

    #37 36 days ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    I managed to get the board operational after stitch repair. It work perfect. Thanks

    It's a great skill to devolop.
    Good job!

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