It coulda been an A list, it could have been a contender.
(Topic ID: 54318)
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The Avengers (LE)
Stern, 2012-
The Avengers (Premium)
Stern, 2012
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Morris, IL
You know Stern uses Kelly Services for some of their stuff? Some of those people don't give a damn how your stupid pinball machine is built. Never mind quality. You gotta want to put in the time. It's understandable when someone is just done dealing with this monopoly garbage.
Just Sayin
Just b/c you want to dump a problem for you doesn't mean you need to make things up about Stern. They do enough things incorrectly in reality without you making up additional fiction just to process personal anger. Next time you want to rant, Try to be fair and stick to facts.
Quoted from Speed:Just b/c you want to dump a problem for you doesn't mean you need to make things up about Stern. They do enough things incorrectly in reality without you making up additional fiction just to process personal anger. Next time you want to rant, Try to be fair and stick to facts.
What did I make up about Stern?
I emailed them about the ramp on my Elvis back in '06 and got no response, then I emailed Jack the Dist. I bought the game from and he wanted a pic and he would "see what he could do".
I just said screw it and bought one.
I did email Pat about the problems with this game and got no response.
Since I had no distributor I went to Marco to just buy the parts and they don't stock any nor do any of the other parts suppliers.
I got a PM from another Pinsider that said they wanted a pic of the floorplate on his game and I told him about the run around I got on the Elvis and to let me know how it works out.
It has been days, still no email from Pat.
Some people ask for one part and get a bag full of stuff, others like me get crickets or the run around.
It was nice of JJ to take care of the parts for the new owner, I told him I had no way to get the parts and the ones that I got from Eskay were already on the game except for the right arm, he only got the right and not the left.
I just repaired the arms, the new right arm is in the coinbox.
Nice to hear others get boards and T shirts etc. and parts for old 3rd owner games that's great.
Still no reply from Pat and I don't expect one.
The collectors bring these games to the shows out here, if a distributor brings them the people play the games then order them online to avoid the Ca. state tax.
That is the way it works, there is one dist. that quit bringing the new Sterns because of this, just a bunch of plays on his new games and zero sales.
Did all I could do to fix this game short of having a machinist make me the parts, kind of out of options when they are not available for sale and no reply from Stern.
i am not going to call and email multiple times and beg for parts, I got an offer for the game and took it.
There are the facts.
Another fact, I will never buy another Stern pinball or take one to another show.
Saskatoon, SK
Quoted from Atomicboy:I saw clay posting that Tim from the PHOF won't even touch them anymore as with his traffic he can see them literally break down in front of him on a daily basis.
Personal data ahead ...
I'm not sure what to think of this statement. Last time I was at the PHoF, all the newer Sterns up front were busy, and playable. I'd venture around 30% of the B/W titles were either shut off, or unplayable due to issues. EM's were rock solid and running.
*shrug* Anytime I've had issues, either Stern or my distributor has made it right. Heck, they replaced an entire machine I had for 3 months with a brand new, different title! +++ on customer service.
I prefer to route new Sterns from a maintenance perspective. I've made less service calls for my Sterns than I have my B/W's. Mind you, some of those B/W's have 20 year old + parts and boards in them, so it is somewhat to be expected.
Quoted from tracelifter:It has been days, still no email from Pat.
Recently? He is currently on a 2 week vacation and will not be back until the 24th.
The interesting thing about Avengers is Stern did shoot themselves in the foot. If the game had another month inside before release, and these issues were addressed, the game would have been much more successful. They would have been selling Premiums, lots more Pros, etc. The license is a huge one, one of the biggest ever, and will be relevant for years.
Obviously it is an owner's favorite, the ones who have spent the time with it fixing it up. If everyone had that "dialed in" experience on day 1, it would be a monster release. Instead, all kinds of money disappeared. Literally millions of dollars in lost sales from a few hundred extra units never being produced.
I'm sure the game will find its fans as the existing units get corrected and more people play it as intended, but that will not help Stern down the road when they could have made money off it today.
Sounds like the OP is having a bad couple of days...understandable. Stern would have taken care of any and all issues. Sounds like an impulse purchase gone wrong.
Quoted from frolic:The interesting thing about Avengers is Stern did shoot themselves in the foot. If the game had another month inside before release, and these issues were addressed, the game would have been much more successful. They would have been selling Premiums, lots more Pros, etc. The license is a huge one, one of the biggest ever, and will be relevant for years.
Obviously it is an owner's favorite, the ones who have spent the time with it fixing it up. If everyone had that "dialed in" experience on day 1, it would be a monster release. Instead, all kinds of money disappeared. Literally millions of dollars in lost sales from a few hundred extra units never being produced.
I'm sure the game will find its fans as the existing units get corrected and more people play it as intended, but that will not help Stern down the road when they could have made money off it today.
Yeah, but no original voices from movies really sucks. I can't imagine playing IM without hearing quotes from the movie.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Yeah, but no original voices from movies really sucks. I can't imagine playing IM without hearing quotes from the movie.
We can change that now, I'm pretty sure some owners already have.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:That's a fair comment I suppose....but Avengers is way better than Transformers. Hands down. Rules and layout are far more interesting. Theme is far more appealing to me as well. Theme also has some humor to it. Transformers is very serious. Too serious in my opinion, and I've noted that criticism. But If I had space for even 2 or 3 more pins, TFLE wouldn't be going anywhere.
After reading about all this pin flipping for profit, especially with METLE, I'm going to sit on my TF LE until the value skyrockets. I just have to be patient:
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Quoted from Tseamans:I don't agree, and neither does pinside's rating (not that they mean much).
I guess Mud flap and Skids weren't humorous for you?
If the LE version of Avengers came out at the same time as TSPP or LOTR and had that kind of build quality in a one version game....AVLE would be top 10 right now. Because they are limited, not enough people are exposed to the game...and because its a HARD game, people on location can't adapt quickly enough to its charms, factor in the QC and its just not going to be popular right now. That is a loss for a ll pinball lovers, because AVLE has it all.
And yes, MudFlaps and skids are cute....but better for a 10 year old than me. With a few exceptions though, its a dark game. As when you play as a Decepticon its a very dark, heavy game. The music is freaking intense!
IMO B/W games are very lighthearted, silly and carefree. sterns Re game more serious and intense on general. Not a bad thing, just different. I'd rank TFLE as one of the most serious of the Stern games. It's about tech and robots. Things not really known for fluffy and approachable.
MudFlaps, I think that's smart. I'm certainly not going to give mine away.
In a few years any beautiful limited edition game, with gorgeous powdercoat, a shaker, LEDs, and a deep ruleset should command good $...now, still in the wake of all the bad pub and new machines etc. it's a tougher sell.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Yeah, but no original voices from movies really sucks. I can't imagine playing IM without hearing quotes from the movie.
The thing is. It doesn't suck. It doesn't suck at all. The voice over work is excellent.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:The thing is. It doesn't suck. It doesn't suck at all. The voice over work is excellent.
You're not only color blind (you think Avengers has yellow GI for IM mode lol) but you're tone deaf as well! 
Mudflaps, please take my picture down. 
Quoted from Mudflaps:After reading about all this pin flipping for profit, especially with METLE, I'm going to sit on my TF LE until the value skyrockets. I just have to be patient:
Quoted from RobKnapp:To Funny !!
Here here! To Funny! Four he's a jolly good fellow!
Quoted from jalpert:We should just call a spade a spade on this one. The Avengers is just not a very good game.
The build quality in some areas of STERN pinball machines as of late are not good as I have stated in this thread in an earlier post. You are free to have your opinion jalpert. So am I . But Avengers L.E. in the Game play, rules, playfield lay out, sound effects, music , lighting effects ,Cabinet art and trim . Are excellent.
One thing that people don't like are the " Erector Set Ramps" theyre actually suppose to be the same thickness as previous ramps. The good thing is if you crack one part of it you don't have to install a whole new ramp.
Quoted from Gexchange:.
PM me the SN of the game I will look up to see if We sold it, if we did I can get the parts process ordered for the new owner.
All I take from this thread is that this community needs some more distributors like JJ... Stern if you are reading this, I know a guy that should be the front runner for head of customer service and Sterns new PR guy....Way to go JJ!! 
....just plain awesome...this guys stands behind what he sell more than the company that makes the machine
New owner here. Eric is going to PM you with numbers and address - I will be out of town for a few weeks and he has agreed to take delivery on the parts.
thanks to all and Tracelifter, Brad
Eskaybee said:
You did JJ. It's my old hulk that I bought nib from you I think in JAN.
Gexchange said:
Ok! Trace - please give my info to the new owner would be happy to take care of there issues.
Hey man, the proof is in the numbers. Guys are blowing out NIB and HUO Hulks left and right, and that was by far the most popular version.
Even Game Exchange on these boards are selling LEs for the price of premiums. I don't like the game, and I say it sucks, and you can disagree with me if you want, but IMO the market disagrees with you. The people have spoken with their wallets on this one.
Quoted from ChadNC:But your wrong bud. Very wrong
Quoted from jalpert:Hey man, the proof is in the numbers. Guys are blowing out NIB and HUO Hulks left and right, and that was by far the most popular version.
Even Game Exchange on these boards are selling LEs for the price of premiums. I don't like the game, and I say it sucks, and you can disagree with me if you want, but IMO the market disagrees with you. The people have spoken with their wallets on this one.
It just goes to show you that markets aren't a judge of character or good taste. Just what people do with money.
Markets are susceptible to hype, greed, manipulation, mis-information, corruption and poor judgement. Arguing that because "more people do something" makes it the best or right choice or action is just silly, especially in a small market that is frothing over with alternatives for how to spend - for many - limited dollars. Frankly, I'd rather run ahead, behind or apart from the pack. The pack is never on the bleeding edge of anything. They play it safe. They minimize risk. Well, no guts no glory...and that's why I play avengers 25 times a day and you don't.
I'd rather hear your honest opinion on why you don't care for the game than hear a 'mob rules' rationalization.
The reason I sold the game is because it is a cheaply made POS.
Speaking of bleeding edge one last tip, when your Hulk mech takes a dump put a piece of tape down the edge of the metal bracket that holds the bridge motor, that is as thin as a tin can and isn't deburred and it will cut the shit out of the back of your hand.
It isn't like I have never worked on a game or held a mech in my hands, you can say it doesn't matter but when shit is so cheaply made the flipper buttons pop out or an Allen head just twists off like butter and again it isn't like I have never loosened an Allen bolt and I know when to stop turning and add heat or impact the thing just gave up the frikken ghost with light pressure.
It didn't have a damn thing to do with the gameplay or the callouts the game is very addicting it is just for the price the quality and zero attention to detail coupled with no response from Stern I sold the damn thing.
I own my own business and when an employee goes on vacation another employee takes that position to service our customers.
Pat is on vacation is not a valid excuse to me anyway.
Stern can make these games out of paper mache as far as I am concerned I will never buy another one.
If you have this game and another older Stern run your finger up and down the side of the service rails the ones on my ELVIS are smooth and deburred, the ones on Hulk are sharp.
Cheaper, cheaper cheaper while the price goes higher and higher.
I would have kept this game if it was better built but if the dog hadn't stopped to take a shit it would have caught the rabbit.
IMO people are selling the game for the same reason Eskay sold it, this dog won't hunt out of the box, you can get it to play properly but you can't keep it from falling apart.
Look at his vid and count how many times either launcher shot the ball to the rollovers.
Good enough, screw testing just shove it in the box and ship it and let the end user deal with it.
I am just shaking my head about the springs on the drops on Met how the hell does a game leave the factory like that?
Lack of care that is how it happens.
Quoted from jalpert:Hey man, the proof is in the numbers. Guys are blowing out NIB and HUO Hulks left and right, and that was by far the most popular version.
Even Game Exchange on these boards are selling LEs for the price of premiums. I don't like the game, and I say it sucks, and you can disagree with me if you want, but IMO the market disagrees with you. The people have spoken with their wallets on this one.
Obviously less than 500 people own this pin. Just Because some are selling doesn't mean its a bad game.. In fact i don't think there's an Avengers premium used for sale anywhere except ebay currently.
Quoted from tracelifter:Look at his vid and count how many times either launcher shot the ball to the rollovers.
Good post trace lifter with the exception of this. Gotta correct you; in the video I was manual plunging to the right flipper for better shot set ups.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Good post trace lifter with the exception of this. Gotta correct you; in the video I was manual plunging to the right flipper for better shot set ups.
I do that also but now you have the option to do either.
On autolaunch I push the plunger in all the way to get a short plunge to set up the CA and HE shots.
In your vid the autolauncher does the rattle and roll down now it flies up to the rollovers and I can manual plunge and hit the CA skill shot most of the time.
Quoted from tracelifter:The reason I sold the game is because it is a cheaply made POS.
Speaking of bleeding edge one last tip, when your Hulk mech takes a dump put a piece of tape down the edge of the metal bracket that holds the bridge motor, that is as thin as a tin can and isn't deburred and it will cut the shit out of the back of your hand.
It isn't like I have never worked on a game or held a mech in my hands, you can say it doesn't matter but when shit is so cheaply made the flipper buttons pop out or an Allen head just twists off like butter and again it isn't like I have never loosened an Allen bolt and I know when to stop turning and add heat or impact the thing just gave up the frikken ghost with light pressure.
It didn't have a damn thing to do with the gameplay or the callouts the game is very addicting it is just for the price the quality and zero attention to detail coupled with no response from Stern I sold the damn thing.
I own my own business and when an employee goes on vacation another employee takes that position to service our customers.
Pat is on vacation is not a valid excuse to me anyway.
Stern can make these games out of paper mache as far as I am concerned I will never buy another one.
If you have this game and another older Stern run your finger up and down the side of the service rails the ones on my ELVIS are smooth and deburred, the ones on Hulk are sharp.
Cheaper, cheaper cheaper while the price goes higher and higher.
I would have kept this game if it was better built but if the dog hadn't stopped to take a shit it would have caught the rabbit.
IMO people are selling the game for the same reason Eskay sold it, this dog won't hunt out of the box, you can get it to play properly but you can't keep it from falling apart.
Look at his vid and count how many times either launcher shot the ball to the rollovers.
Good enough, screw testing just shove it in the box and ship it and let the end user deal with it.
I am just shaking my head about the springs on the drops on Met how the hell does a game leave the factory like that?
Lack of care that is how it happens.
Revenues and profits are on the up and up, so cutting costs is working......for now.
You're right. The game is great and sold really well. There aren't more people than average dumping the game.
Quoted from ChadNC:Just Because some are selling doesn't mean its a bad game.. In fact i don't think there's an Avengers premium used for sale anywhere except ebay currently.
Comparing a $.99 song to a $6,000 game is pretty dumb.
Quoted from Apollyon:And lot of people like modern pop music too. Doesn't change the fact that it's banal, soulless, recycled crap.
Quoted from Rarehero:You're not only color blind (you think Avengers has yellow GI for IM mode lol) but you're tone deaf as well!
The voice over work is excellent. Sounds like the actors used on avengers: earths mightiest heroes and many if the actors used in the pinball fx marvel tables. These voices sound very accurate and very nostalgic to any true avengers fan that isn't just a fan of the movie. Because they went this route, they weren't limited to clips of the movie. They were able to add some very cool and funny call outs for each character - some of the best come from hulk. I have a lot of people over that play the game and the voice overs hasn't been one of the common complaints.
Quoted from markmon:The voice over work is excellent. Sounds like the actors used on Avengers: earths mightiest heroes and many if the actors used in the pinball fx marvel tables. These voices sound very accurate and very nostalgic to any true Avengers fan that isn't just a fan of the movie. Because they went this route, they weren't limited to clips if the movie. They were able to add some very cool and funny cl outs for each character - some of the best come from hulk. I have a lot of people over that play the game and the voice overs hasn't been one of the common complaints.
Yep, in fact I was pleasantly surprised at how great they actually were. And humor to boot! That's pretty rare these days.
Two thumbs up for JJ @ Game Exchange, nice fellow to talk to and looks like he is taking care of getting us some parts. Two thumbs up for Tracelfter who is holding on and trying to get the parts and to thanks Eskabee for helping on the sidelines.
thanks to all, we'll keep you posted as the drama unfolds.
Where though is Stern? Whole place on vacation?
I have to agree with the OP. I've played the game and love it; however, from many of the complaints I've read, it appears to be cheaply made. Hulk, in particular, is prone to breaking. Shame, as I think it is an awesome game, but the quality would definitely have me thinking twice about buying one.
When the Hulk mech breaks in a home environment --- well that's pretty telling. It's quite obvious they aren't making them like they used to and people used to complain about the quality back then LOL!
I still have my HUO LOTR, HUO Spiderman (that I bought NIB), and HUO TSPP. Stern hasn't made a game that has convinced me to sell any of those. Although I did come closing to buying Tron and IM, but I was going to sell some Williams games
Cheers,
Duane
Quoted from Jediturtle:I am sorry, but you are using false information as an excuse to get rid of a game. Stern would have absolutely taken care of you at no cost for a game this new. I have owned 4 Stern games, all of which I was the second owner, and they have supported me 100% on all of them with no hassle what-so-ever. If you want to blame build quality, poor QC, bad or rushed design, etc, that's fine, but blaming a lack of customer support for replacement parts is just plain wrong and shows that you didn't even try to contact them. In less time than it took you to write these posts, you could have shot Pat a quick e-mail and had parts on their way that same day.
I'd have to agree. I've always found them to be very responsive. If you find yourself in similar circumstances in future, give them a shot. You might be surprised.
Quoted from swf127:I'd have to agree. I've always found them to be very responsive. If you find yourself in similar circumstances in future, give them a shot. You might be surprised.
Well Jediturtle looks like Pat is on vacation and I did contact them and still no response and Pat didn't shoot me anything the same day.
I just assumed it was the same shit I got when I bought my NIB Elvis, no response from Stern and a "take a picture and I will see what I can do" from Jersey Jack.
That BTW is why I didn't buy a WoZ I don't need to do a damn photo shoot to get support on a new game I buy.
I guess there are enough people looking for freebies that he wanted a pic to make sure it was really broken, it isn't like Stern didn't know they were breaking, they broke while testing them and they shipped them anyway.
I just went ahead and ordered the ramp from Marco and would have done the same for these parts if they were available.
So happy Stern took care of you mooching parts on used games, I don't appreciate being called a liar.
Oh and I offered to pay for these parts, JJ said no we will do this under warranty so thanks JJ for doing this for me.
Mods can you please close this thread, it has run it's course.
Quoted from TwilightZone:When the Hulk mech breaks in a home environment --- well that's pretty telling. It's quite obvious they aren't making them like they used to and people used to complain about the quality back then LOL!
I'm not affiliated with Stern so I can't speak for them, but I'm assuming they're operating on the assumption that there are two distinct audiences: operators who buy the pros and collectors who buy the LE's. Since the LE's are expected to get less pounding, they pack them with fragile toys. I don't know about you, but when I see ramps that swish from side to side, I see something that's likely to break not something that will make me like the game more. I look at the fit and finish on the toys in the WOZ and there's literally no comparison. Yes, the WOZ has issues and has taken a long time, but I give those guys credit for clearly caring about the quality of their product.
Careful if you say something bad about Jersey Jack they may burn you like a witch. But I am not surprised at all this the service you recieved he is great at taking money and then ignoring his customers. In the end we won't be the minority, real shame because would love to see another successful pinball company but the way the guy acts is straight up despicable.
Stern has been ok to me but most of the time they act like your bothering them on the phone and say call your distributor but on occasion I have gotten help from Pat. Hard to be perfect in any service area god knows we try at my company, but it's impossible to keep everyone happy and sometimes we just say screw it offer a full refund pick up our product with a smile and move on. We have learned in the Internet age the customer is more than always right he can bring your company with just a harsh review. People mainly see bad when they read reviews online even if your average is spectacular.
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