Sold my KOD on ebay after posting it here first without a sale. I increased the price on ebay just a little bit to account for PayPal or other fees. I was surprised to learn today that ebay is taking almost $500 for their profit. Wow. My mistake. I never realized that would have been the case or I would have set the price way higher or kept the machine!
Just in case anyone here is unaware of the current ebay fees.
This is why I haven't sold a pinball machine on eBay for 15 years.
This is also why you no longer see "Last call here before I put it up on eBay!" in pinball for sale ads. Used to be a very common threat!
Yup. Selling on ebay can be pricey. They can demand that since it's still one of the most well known online marketplaces on the planet.
Yeah I ran into this about a month ago too, pretty shocking but I guess it's been like that for quite awhile.
Quoted from jgelman:Sold my KOD on ebay after posting it here first without a sale. I increased the price on ebay just a little bit to account for PayPal or other fees. I was surprised to learn today that ebay is taking almost $500 for their profit. Wow. My mistake. I never realized that would have been the case or I would have set the price way higher or kept the machine!
Just in case anyone here is unaware of the current ebay fees.
If buyer is local, cancel transaction and tell buyer you will split the savings.
Im assuming its the King of D.
At least you had it up on pinside too.
Buyer is not local. Buyer paid and the money was just transferred to my account after that $489 reduction. My fault for not knowing better.
If I would have known then what I know now, I would have listed the KOD for $489 more on ebay or for $489 less here on Pinside.
Yup, this is why I stopped selling on Ebay entirely.
They also have zero protection for their sellers. I sold some football cards on there worth about $500. The buyer claimed they "were not as described" and sent them back to me. When I received the cards back, almost all of them had been swapped out by the buyer with dinged up cards that were different than what I had before (some cards were not even listed in the original sale). I messaged eBay and they didn't do anything. I demanded to speak to a manager and they told me to go fly a kite. They will ALWAYS take the side of the buyer. Taking 14% on a sale is insanity. I'll never sell on there again, too many scammers.
I reported eBay to the BBB.
Quoted from CashMoney:I reported eBay to the BBB.
Why do that? What does eBay have to do with Big Bang Bar?
Quoted from jgelman:Buyer is not local. Buyer paid and the money was just transferred to my account after that $489 reduction. My fault for not knowing better.
If I would have known then what I know now, I would have listed the KOD for $489 more on ebay or for $489 less here on Pinside.
Well you never would have sold it here for $3,000. I think you made out pretty good for a King of Diamonds all things considered.
I guess that's why after all this abuse, people still put up with eBay after all these years.
Quoted from CashMoney:Yup, this is why I stopped selling on Ebay entirely.
They also have zero protection for their sellers. I sold some football cards on there worth about $500. The buyer claimed they "were not as described" and sent them back to me. When I received the cards back, almost all of them had been swapped out by the buyer with dinged up cards that were different than what I had before (some cards were not even listed in the original sale). I messaged eBay and they didn't do anything. I demanded to speak to a manager and they told me to go fly a kite. They will ALWAYS take the side of the buyer. Taking 14% on a sale is insanity. I'll never sell on there again, too many scammers.
I reported eBay to the BBB.
Lol the BBB is a scam
Plus, now ebay will send you a 1099 for your sales so you can cough up some more of your profit in taxes and they have your SSN and bank account info so hopefully they don't get hacked.
I sold items on ebay since 1999 but not since February when they required managed payments and submitting personal info.
Next time you list anything on Ebay use : https://www.salecalc.com
This tells you the amount profit, charges etc you can expect if your item sells.
Quoted from Ballypin:Plus, now ebay will send you a 1099 for your sales so you can cough up some more of your profit in taxes and they have your SSN and bank account info so hopefully they don't get hacked.
I sold items on ebay since 1999 but not since February when they required managed payments and submitting personal info.
Not just eBay, now it will be any online sales that total over 600 bucks. Don’t mater what site you use. It use to be 20k or 200 transactions. This was part of the last relief bill.
Quoted from timtim:Not just eBay, now it will be any online sales that total over 600 bucks. Don’t mater what site you use. It use to be 20k or 200 transactions. This was part of the last relief bill.
We're about to pump 80 billion dollars into the IRS to beef it up so they can really make sure you are dotting all your I's and crossing all your T's on your tax forms. Wring every cent they can out of the working man.
Quoted from jgelman:Buyer is not local. Buyer paid and the money was just transferred to my account after that $489 reduction. My fault for not knowing better.
If I would have known then what I know now, I would have listed the KOD for $489 more on ebay or for $489 less here on Pinside.
I recently sold a large cost item on ebay and was shocked too, but more annoying was Paypal not giving me my money for 3 weeks.
Quoted from Zablon:I recently sold a large cost item on ebay and was shocked too, but more annoying was Paypal not giving me my money for 3 weeks.
I used to sell on ebay but I didnt like them holding my money too long.When I buy I pay immediately.Some sellers stopped playing ebay games maybe thats why the started charging more to make up for all the people who stopped using them.
Ditto to all of the above. I really limit ebay to "last resort" any more. Mostly the fees and any lack of seller protection. Sometimes it is unavoidable. As much as an anti-facebooker I am, Marketplace has turned into a decent alternative. Moved last year and got rid of dozens of things there.
Oh well....I guess it's all better than when I was a kid and had to list stuff in the Tradin' Times paper!!
Tony A.
Quoted from Haymaker:We're about to pump 80 billion dollars into the IRS to beef it up so they can really make sure you are dotting all your I's and crossing all your T's on your tax forms. Wring every cent they can out of the working man.
Actually it's to go bust all the rich folks who are good at dodging taxes. Gotta lawyer up to battle their lawyers. In the past the IRS had been focusing on working class and EIC recipients, but are figuring out its more efficient hour per dollar to go after the whales. Way too much income and profit being shipped offshore.
I list my products on ebay because it still consistently finds folks who otherwise wouldn't find my boards. Their move away from paypal was a big revenue grab for them as their current fees essentially add up to what used to be their fee plus what used to be paypal's fee. The crap part about that is they advertised the change as a savings for sellers - that was false. For small items like mine I think their fees are comparable to what it would cost to sell on competing services (amazon, etsy). For a large item like a pinball machine, how do the fees you paid compare to what an auction company would have charged? In my view, fees on sales in my pinside shop are a bargain in comparison to ebay.
-Rob
-visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my replacement LED display boards for model H & S Skee Ball
It sucks ebay tacked on the PayPal fees to sellers. It’s bad enough they took 10% before. But it’s still the best way to reach many many people to sell your item. Just have to add the extra 14% or what ever the fees are now to your item.
Quoted from Haymaker:We're about to pump 80 billion dollars into the IRS to beef it up so they can really make sure you are dotting all your I's and crossing all your T's on your tax forms. Wring every cent they can out of the working man.
This site is pretty public. Wonder if the IRS thinks a nice slice could come from pinball resales....
One thing about zero protection for the sellers on ebay, I will have to share this story. I do not sell things often.
I had an old Sony NTSC monitor, and I figured Goodwill. However, I looked it up and saw it was of value to certain gamers using older games and thought fine, I would sell it as auction. They often went for a few hundred, but I made it local pickup only on the listing and I figured it would just be a quick local sale. I did not want to deal with shipping and the sale price was on the low side.
I mentioned in the listing description that it was local pickup only as it was in the official listing, but I indicated that is someone really wanted it shipped and would pay for packaging and shipping the the UPS store, I would as a courtesy, take it to the UPS store, but I could not be responsible for anything at all.
So, the buyer was not local and wanted me to take it to the UPS store. I did and took pictures.
______________________________________
The buyer then emails this:
The monitor arrived today. It got damaged quite a bit in shipping. I tried to turn it on, but nothing, no picture. (see pics attached). Would you be able to file a claim with the UPS Store that shipped it? I greatly appreciate how you worked with me to ship it over local pickup, and also the refund of the difference in postage price.
______________________________________
I reply this:
Sorry to see that happened. I enclosed a picture I took of the unit without damage on the scale at the UPS store. Quite a difference. When I listed the item, I saw one that sold for $350 that was in inferior condition to mine, but I figured I may get less due to the local pickup only emphasis. I was OK with that and would have been ok with donating it. The main reason I sold it saying local pickup was that it seemed to have value to gamers and I hate to see things not go to people who value them. I also said, if someone really wanted shipping, ok, but I would not want to have any responsibility for problems. I was very upfront. I did take it to the UPS store, and did not charge a penny above what I was charged. It is my understanding that the buyer or the seller can file a claim. I enclosed that picture to be of help. I would ask that you please contact UPS.
_________________________________________
The buyer emails this and makes a return request with ebay which blocked availability of my payment:
UPS encourages the shipper to file the claim, not the recipient. You're able to physically go to the UPS Store that packed the monitor insufficiently. You also have access to all the information needed by UPS in filing, I unfortunately do not. I also do not have the information on how much the monitor was insured for, which they will need for the claim, as well as the receipt from The UPS Store proving they themselves packed it. I also don't know the exact amount it cost to ship the monitor in the first place as I have no sales receipt. I put my trust in you in that regard.
The monitor was wrapped with one thin layer of bubble wrap and next to no cushioning on all sides and no indications outside of it being a "fragile item contained inside." Were you able to watch them pack it? I politely requested to you in advance that they use thick cushioned corners and plenty of packing material to allow it to float in the inner box within the outer box as I have shipped and received many of these in the past with no problems. I don't think my integral request was communicated to UPS, so unfortunately you yourself have an obligation to be at least somewhat responsible even if you won't accept it up front. Please don't put in your listing description that you're willing to ship, if you're not comfortable in shipping an extremely fragile and heavy electronic device. This was also an auction with no reserve price, I'm sorry you didn't get to the $350 price tag you saw for a similar monitor that sold, but this is how your auction ended.
Please communicate directly with your local UPS Store whenever you're able to, as you've dealt directly with them in the past week. I've sent many pictures of the damage and also of the address label on the box proving it was accepted and shipped by them. You have the picture of it at the store before shipment. They should be able to handle this sort of thing. Or I'll send it back to you if prepaid label is provided.
________________________________________________
I called ebay and explained and the result was:
We reviewed this case and have closed it without any refund to the buyer.
The case will not affect your seller performance. Any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.
The request did not meet the criteria to be eligible for an eBay Money Back Guarantee claim.
I see from the email from the buyer that he was in the business of flipping monitors. I was just trying to help out someone that may have wanted one. I could have just donated it to Goodwill and saved the hassle of taking it to the UPS store and dealing with this issue.
This is how I sold my KOD, local pickup only but I offered to help ship as a favor with the understanding that my responsibility ends when someone shows up and confirms the machine is ok. So far my machine has not yet been picked up but the money has been released to my account and so I am in a good position. Moreover I have a great feeling about the buyer and we have had excellent communication.
Anyhow, just thought I would share. The reason I say local pickup is to avoid hassle and have the buyer make sure all is well at the time of taking possession. However, I want to help people who want something who are far away. I once wanted this guitar amp and the seller said local pickup in Florida. I offered to pay any way the seller wanted and offered to arrange for someone to come pick it up and package it and I would pay for the insurance and provide a signed document that I am responsible for accepting it as is etc. Still, the seller declined. That is the right of the seller, and I did not want to fly across the country, but I would not want to deny someone who really wanted something over this.
I've been selling on eBay 20 years with over 15K transactions. Final value fees are now 10% in most categories. They shoved managed payments down my throat as a top rated seller. I spent over an hour fighting with them on the phone over this. With PayPal I was paid immediately. Now my buyer receive their purchase before I even get paid. They claimed that managed payments would prevent charge backs. Never had one ever.
Having owned brick and mortar stores, Credit card companies fund your account the next day except AMEX, 2-3 days. eBay is doing the float now. Holding funds 3-4 days before release especially over weekends. They are making a shit pile of interest holding a seller's money for a couple extra days. Add that up with millions of transactions and that interest on every seller's money adds up.
Quoted from jgelman:One thing about zero protection for the sellers on ebay, I will have to share this story. I do not sell things often.
I had an old Sony NTSC monitor, and I figured Goodwill. However, I looked it up and saw it was of value to certain gamers using older games and thought fine, I would sell it as auction. They often went for a few hundred, but I made it local pickup only on the listing and I figured it would just be a quick local sale. I did not want to deal with shipping and the sale price was on the low side.
I mentioned in the listing description that it was local pickup only as it was in the official listing, but I indicated that is someone really wanted it shipped and would pay for packaging and shipping the the UPS store, I would as a courtesy, take it to the UPS store, but I could not be responsible for anything at all.
So, the buyer was not local and wanted me to take it to the UPS store. I did and took pictures.
______________________________________
The buyer then emails this:
The monitor arrived today. It got damaged quite a bit in shipping. I tried to turn it on, but nothing, no picture. (see pics attached). Would you be able to file a claim with the UPS Store that shipped it? I greatly appreciate how you worked with me to ship it over local pickup, and also the refund of the difference in postage price.
______________________________________
I reply this:
Sorry to see that happened. I enclosed a picture I took of the unit without damage on the scale at the UPS store. Quite a difference. When I listed the item, I saw one that sold for $350 that was in inferior condition to mine, but I figured I may get less due to the local pickup only emphasis. I was OK with that and would have been ok with donating it. The main reason I sold it saying local pickup was that it seemed to have value to gamers and I hate to see things not go to people who value them. I also said, if someone really wanted shipping, ok, but I would not want to have any responsibility for problems. I was very upfront. I did take it to the UPS store, and did not charge a penny above what I was charged. It is my understanding that the buyer or the seller can file a claim. I enclosed that picture to be of help. I would ask that you please contact UPS.
_________________________________________
The buyer emails this and makes a return request with ebay which blocked availability of my payment:
UPS encourages the shipper to file the claim, not the recipient. You're able to physically go to the UPS Store that packed the monitor insufficiently. You also have access to all the information needed by UPS in filing, I unfortunately do not. I also do not have the information on how much the monitor was insured for, which they will need for the claim, as well as the receipt from The UPS Store proving they themselves packed it. I also don't know the exact amount it cost to ship the monitor in the first place as I have no sales receipt. I put my trust in you in that regard.
The monitor was wrapped with one thin layer of bubble wrap and next to no cushioning on all sides and no indications outside of it being a "fragile item contained inside." Were you able to watch them pack it? I politely requested to you in advance that they use thick cushioned corners and plenty of packing material to allow it to float in the inner box within the outer box as I have shipped and received many of these in the past with no problems. I don't think my integral request was communicated to UPS, so unfortunately you yourself have an obligation to be at least somewhat responsible even if you won't accept it up front. Please don't put in your listing description that you're willing to ship, if you're not comfortable in shipping an extremely fragile and heavy electronic device. This was also an auction with no reserve price, I'm sorry you didn't get to the $350 price tag you saw for a similar monitor that sold, but this is how your auction ended.
Please communicate directly with your local UPS Store whenever you're able to, as you've dealt directly with them in the past week. I've sent many pictures of the damage and also of the address label on the box proving it was accepted and shipped by them. You have the picture of it at the store before shipment. They should be able to handle this sort of thing. Or I'll send it back to you if prepaid label is provided.
________________________________________________
I called ebay and explained and the result was:
We reviewed this case and have closed it without any refund to the buyer.
The case will not affect your seller performance. Any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.
The request did not meet the criteria to be eligible for an eBay Money Back Guarantee claim.I see from the email from the buyer that he was in the business of flipping monitors. I was just trying to help out someone that may have wanted one. I could have just donated it to Goodwill and saved the hassle of taking it to the UPS store and dealing with this issue.
This is how I sold my KOD, local pickup only but I offered to help ship as a favor with the understanding that my responsibility ends when someone shows up and confirms the machine is ok. So far my machine has not yet been picked up but the money has been released to my account and so I am in a good position. Moreover I have a great feeling about the buyer and we have had excellent communication.
Anyhow, just thought I would share. The reason I say local pickup is to avoid hassle and have the buyer make sure all is well at the time of taking possession. However, I want to help people who want something who are far away. I once wanted this guitar amp and the seller said local pickup in Florida. I offered to pay any way the seller wanted and offered to arrange for someone to come pick it up and package it and I would pay for the insurance and provide a signed document that I am responsible for accepting it as is etc. Still, the seller declined. That is the right of the seller, and I did not want to fly across the country, but I would not want to deny someone who really wanted something over this.
Sounds like a good news story to me. EBAY sided with you, as a seller. Which is supposedly rare.
Quoted from metallik:Actually it's to go bust all the rich folks who are good at dodging taxes. Gotta lawyer up to battle their lawyers. In the past the IRS had been focusing on working class and EIC recipients, but are figuring out its more efficient hour per dollar to go after the whales. Way too much income and profit being shipped offshore.
LMFAO if this is who you think this is going to effect. Come on man. This is gonna hurt the small business owners, middle class, and us lowly blue collar guys the most. I'm not making this political either, its just a simple fact. The crazy rich "tax dodgers" employ crafty accountants (many whom used to work for the IRS) and they aren't necessarily dodging taxes as much as much as using laws written into the complex tax codes. Think you're gonna keep skating by not claiming the couple of bucks you made on crypto tho? Doubt it. Bought your NIB out of state? Don't forget to claim that! This sort of stuff goes for the easy targets, and effects them the most. If you think otherwise, I'm sorry you either live in an alternate reality or you're unable to look at things objectively. No politician on either side is gonna do squat to hurt their buddies when they can just siphon more off us.
I'm mixed on this one since there are like a thousand eBay/PayPal calculators online. Some will show you what your fees will be selling at a certain price, and others will even show you what you need to charge to clear a certain amount.
Quoted from Haymaker:LMFAO if this is who you think this is going to effect. Come on man. This is gonna hurt the small business owners, middle class, and us lowly blue collar guys the most. I'm not making this political either, its just a simple fact. The crazy rich "tax dodgers" employ crafty accountants (many whom used to work for the IRS) and they aren't necessarily dodging taxes as much as much as using laws written into the complex tax codes. Think you're gonna keep skating by not claiming the couple of bucks you made on crypto tho? Doubt it. Bought your NIB out of state? Don't forget to claim that! This sort of stuff goes for the easy targets, and effects them the most. If you think otherwise, I'm sorry you either live in an alternate reality or you're unable to look at things objectively. No politician on either side is gonna do squat to hurt their buddies when they can just siphon more off us.
I got a new in box and many other parts for a variety of things,I get taxed immediately.Most NIBs are atleast 400 or more in taxes due immediately.Cali style why charge later what you can collect now.Doh
Quoted from DakotaMike:Sounds like a good news story to me. EBAY sided with you, as a seller. Which is supposedly rare.
Right! Ebay sided with me as a seller.
I am now selling a nice Kings and Queens, and if I get no interest here, I will list it on ebay. However, this time I will make sure my ebay price is around $400 more than the Pinside price to account for the fees. Ebay does have a wide reach, and it seems like the vast majority of the archived listings did not sell on Pinside. Interesting that most of those listings had no pictures under the playfield. haha.
Quoted from rkahr:I list my products on ebay because it still consistently finds folks who otherwise wouldn't find my boards. Their move away from paypal was a big revenue grab for them as their current fees essentially add up to what used to be their fee plus what used to be paypal's fee. The crap part about that is they advertised the change as a savings for sellers - that was false. For small items like mine I think their fees are comparable to what it would cost to sell on competing services (amazon, etsy). For a large item like a pinball machine, how do the fees you paid compare to what an auction company would have charged? In my view, fees on sales in my pinside shop are a bargain in comparison to ebay.
-Rob
-visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my replacement LED display boards for model H & S Skee Ball
Yes it was a complete lie that it would save fees for the sellers. Actually there was an increase when they left Paypal. Prior to that the Final Value Fee would apply to the item price plus the shipping cost. After they started servicing the transactions they started to apply it to the item price, shipping cost, and the sales tax. Before it was only the Paypal servicing fee that applied to the entire transaction including sales tax. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, and even Ebay employees were not fully aware of it and could not explain when I called about fees not being correct.
I used to sell a ton on Ebay and never had issues (this was back when you could still pay with checks and rarely had people screw you over). When I sold something for the first time in years one thing that struck me was they didn't want you to start the price higher, and penalized/charged you more if you did. I did think that was kind of bull.
Quoted from rkahr:the crap part about that is they advertised the change as a savings for sellers - that was false.
Yeah, false advertising at best. Big savings for ebay, probably.
Quoted from jgelman:this time I will make sure my ebay price is around $400 more
I always calculate an additional 15%.
(100 x $myprice) / 85 = $ebayprice
Quoted from Dayhuff:You mean people still look at and use Ebay?
John
Yes, surprisingly--that's actually where I still end up selling the most amount of stuff.
Quoted from timtim:Not just eBay, now it will be any online sales that total over 600 bucks. Don’t mater what site you use. It use to be 20k or 200 transactions. This was part of the last relief bill.
Wait so, it’s not 200 transactions or 20k anymore? You get a 1099 no matter what? So we have to pay taxes for selling items we bought that most likely already had state sales tax on them and were purchased with money that was already federally taxed (income), in addition to the ridiculous fees? I guess I’m done with eBay even for small collectibles…
Quoted from vikeking27:Wait so, it’s not 200 transactions or 20k anymore? You get a 1099 no matter what? So we have to pay taxes for selling items we bought that most likely already had state sales tax on them and were purchased with money that was already federally taxed (income), in addition to the ridiculous fees? I guess I’m done with eBay even for small collectibles…
Additional discussion about that here as well.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/has-ebay-finally-done-itself-in-ss-amp1099-sellers
I was a PowerSeller as well but haven't list any new items since these changes went into effect.
Quoted from Dayhuff:You mean people still look at and use Ebay?
John
I buy more off ebay than I do amazon.
Quoted from Zablon:I buy more off ebay than I do amazon.
Whats Amazon?
Quoted from Dayhuff:Whats Amazon?
Where do you shop? I'm pretty much anti FB, Amazon, Google, MSFT, etc, but even saying that at the end of the day, you gotta buy things somewhere. I am very much a online shopper, and have been since the early 2000's, the difference is I go where the prices are lowest. If it's Amazon, I shop there (which is actually not often). Ebay generally always has been the cheapest place to buy items if you aren't impatient and think you need it in a day. It's easy to say support local if you live in a metropolis, but much of the country doesn't have that luxury.
Ebay is done for. I went to list an item for like 400 bucks and they required all this new additional information. I would have also had to request special permissions to list "higher priced items" now.
Just walked away
My point of starting this post was to suggest when you sell with ebay at this time, these are the fees you pay, and that should be taking into account.
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
It seems people can do well selling certain machines on ebay compared to Pinside.
I am guessing there will not be huge interest in my Kings and Queens here, but if I list it on ebay and add $480 to the price, good chance it will sell. Perhaps I will find out!
Got two with Wade Krause playfields if anyone is interested in paying $6K apiece. WOW
https://ebay.com/itm/143951143842?hash=item21842823a2%3Ag%3ARFgAAOSwyWdgK1%7E7&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5337059215&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1
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