(Topic ID: 304583)

Solar City - startup issues

By jmbit

59 days ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 54 days ago by jmbit
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Solar City AXR relay (resized).jpg
Solar City AX relay (resized).jpg
Solar City Startup (resized).jpg

#1 59 days ago

Hello, this is my 6th EM machine and I've never had any serious problems finding issues since my first one I learned on. This is by far the cleanest machine I've worked on. I've been through it all and cleaned every contact in the machine.

Issue is that the machine doesn't run a start up sequence very well. I've tried what I've read in all the posts prior with activating the startup sequence. DX, S, U, 2B and AX all look perfectly aligned and no contact issues...

Q game relay releases when start button/replay button is pushed.
AX is not released after S relay runs the Motor, however motor doesn't stop unless I manually release AX.
One big thing, I can't for the life of me get the ball release coil to kick the ball out. The contact will release the targets and the players do switch with the player contact switch is rolled over.

Major issue I can't see why it's happening. - When I roll over the contacts on the ball entry it won't disengage the one light and switch between the two entries. Stays on the one single one and the roll over contacts seem correct.

I've tried unplugging the wire harness from the backglass and the door to test.... Still same situation.

Any suggestions would be welcomed. The relays seems to all fire a 5v battery a bit, other way I guess I start taking them off and testing them with an ohm meter.

Thank you.

#2 59 days ago

Here is the startup sequence for Solar City. How far does it get?
Solar City Startup (resized).jpg
Do the score reels and drop targets reset? Does the Player Unit in the backbox take clean steps or is it sluggish?

If the AX relay isn't resetting on its own the game may not be fully reset. Troubleshooting game play issues may be premature if the game hasn't successfully reset.

/Mark

#3 59 days ago

Hi Mark, ya game is not properly resetting for sure, the AX relay is not engaging when S fires. I have to manually push it and release it. I would say that is where I'm stuck in the startup, I would 100% agree the reset is complete. The targets get reset and score is 0000's. no back kick out.

I just checked the FS and that seems to be an issue too on top of everything else. I believe the plastic is worn out on the wheel.

#4 59 days ago

I don't follow.

Quoted from jmbit:

AX is not released after S relay runs the Motor, however motor doesn't stop unless I manually release AX.

Quoted from jmbit:

the AX relay is not engaging when S fires. I have to manually push it and release it.

There are two coils on the AX relay. The "AX" coil fires and trips the relay at the start of reset and has a green-white-red wire on one solder lug. The "AX Reset" coil fires and resets or latches the relay at the end of reset. It has a yellow-blue-red wire on one solder lug. Which one isn't firing?

#5 59 days ago

When I hit the start button, the targets reset, the S relay pulls back the motor spins a quarter turn maybe half turn, the AX does not respond at all. (green-white-(looks like orange) which goes to the CX relay.

The top relay should pull the AX into place (green and white), then the yellow blue bottom relay should release it I believe at some point... (right?).

#6 59 days ago
Quoted from jmbit:

(green-white-(looks like orange)

The red in the cloth wire cover often fades to orange, yellow or tan.

Quoted from jmbit:

The top relay should pull the AX into place (green and white), then the yellow blue bottom relay should release it I believe at some point... (right?).

Quoted from MarkG:

The "AX" coil fires and trips the relay at the start of reset and has a green-white-red wire on one solder lug. The "AX Reset" coil fires and resets or latches the relay at the end of reset. It has a yellow-blue-red wire on one solder lug.

If your AX relay isn't doing anything at all the first step is to get the AX (not AXR) coil to fire. There are just two switches that need to close:
Solar City AX relay (resized).jpg

#7 59 days ago

MarkG looks like I’m back to where I started. Think when I was checking before I moved the GRN-WHT-RED contact on DX. Thank you!! Now the AX is engaging.

Guessing now I need to trace out the AXR?

#8 59 days ago

Same song, second verse.
Solar City AXR relay (resized).jpg
Note that AXR and BXR should fire together.
The P5A switch is on the Player Unit, 5th (black) cam, bottom of the switch stack.

#9 59 days ago

Just finished checking those, the P5A is closed while the motor (1-4) is running continuously. The P5A fires and runs a cycle. When start button is pushed it triggers the P5A. If I manually open P5A (yellow-Black) - Slate-Black. Score resets the entire player unit (positions FS relay runs, score 0 but the motor still runs and AXR and DXR do not fire. Motor 1B is open and makes connection as it spins to GRN-BLK and GR-WH-RED when the motor spins.

I triple checked everything from the beginning.

#10 58 days ago

Having a hard time following your description.

Quoted from jmbit:

the P5A is closed while the motor (1-4) is running continuously.

That makes sense but the rest, not so much.

You need the three switches in the schematic in reply #8 to all be closed (not just visibly, but electrically) at the same time for AXR to fire. Are the DX relay and Motor 4C switches closed too? If you jumper around one or more of the switches with an alligator clip test lead does AXR fire?

See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1st-ball-in-play-relay-#post-6603524 for example if an alligator clip is unfamiliar.

#11 58 days ago

MarkG, great call! tested with the alligator clips and noticed the Motor 4C was not making the best contact, sure looked like it but wasn't. Cleaned it up and adjusted and it now releases the AXR. Now I'm not getting ball kickout. I traced the O relay and was able to get it to pop with power from the 25V to BL+WH on the relay, and on the D switch. I've cleaned the 1C and the 2B best I can. I'm able to engage the O relay when putting power on either end of the 1C GRN+WH and SL-BLK. Also able to engage ball kicker with power on the Blk+yellow and sl black when connected to the ball return switch.

Startup instructions say the BX is engaged - I'll have a closer look at that one.

Thank you for the help!

#12 58 days ago

My gut says it’s something with the P relay player unit. It’s not engaging. Thoughts?

#13 58 days ago
Quoted from jmbit:

My gut says it’s something with the P relay player unit. It’s not engaging. Thoughts?

If the Add Player Unit relay (P) doesn't activate when the ball rolls over the Trough switch,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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#14 54 days ago

MarkG HowardR thank you for the help. I think I have it firing. Looks to me like the R relay was releasing a little early. Ive tightened up the leaf switches cleaned them again and monitoring. Seems better! Thanks for the assistance.

Side note - do you guys have all the schematics on soft copy? Amazing!

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