(Topic ID: 304583)

Solar City - startup issues

By jmbit

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by HowardR
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Solar City AXR relay (resized).jpg
Solar City AX relay (resized).jpg
Solar City Startup (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

Hello, this is my 6th EM machine and I've never had any serious problems finding issues since my first one I learned on. This is by far the cleanest machine I've worked on. I've been through it all and cleaned every contact in the machine.

Issue is that the machine doesn't run a start up sequence very well. I've tried what I've read in all the posts prior with activating the startup sequence. DX, S, U, 2B and AX all look perfectly aligned and no contact issues...

Q game relay releases when start button/replay button is pushed.
AX is not released after S relay runs the Motor, however motor doesn't stop unless I manually release AX.
One big thing, I can't for the life of me get the ball release coil to kick the ball out. The contact will release the targets and the players do switch with the player contact switch is rolled over.

Major issue I can't see why it's happening. - When I roll over the contacts on the ball entry it won't disengage the one light and switch between the two entries. Stays on the one single one and the roll over contacts seem correct.

I've tried unplugging the wire harness from the backglass and the door to test.... Still same situation.

Any suggestions would be welcomed. The relays seems to all fire a 5v battery a bit, other way I guess I start taking them off and testing them with an ohm meter.

Thank you.

#2 2 years ago

Here is the startup sequence for Solar City. How far does it get?
Solar City Startup (resized).jpgSolar City Startup (resized).jpg
Do the score reels and drop targets reset? Does the Player Unit in the backbox take clean steps or is it sluggish?

If the AX relay isn't resetting on its own the game may not be fully reset. Troubleshooting game play issues may be premature if the game hasn't successfully reset.

/Mark

#3 2 years ago

Hi Mark, ya game is not properly resetting for sure, the AX relay is not engaging when S fires. I have to manually push it and release it. I would say that is where I'm stuck in the startup, I would 100% agree the reset is complete. The targets get reset and score is 0000's. no back kick out.

I just checked the FS and that seems to be an issue too on top of everything else. I believe the plastic is worn out on the wheel.

#4 2 years ago

I don't follow.

Quoted from jmbit:

AX is not released after S relay runs the Motor, however motor doesn't stop unless I manually release AX.

Quoted from jmbit:

the AX relay is not engaging when S fires. I have to manually push it and release it.

There are two coils on the AX relay. The "AX" coil fires and trips the relay at the start of reset and has a green-white-red wire on one solder lug. The "AX Reset" coil fires and resets or latches the relay at the end of reset. It has a yellow-blue-red wire on one solder lug. Which one isn't firing?

#5 2 years ago

When I hit the start button, the targets reset, the S relay pulls back the motor spins a quarter turn maybe half turn, the AX does not respond at all. (green-white-(looks like orange) which goes to the CX relay.

The top relay should pull the AX into place (green and white), then the yellow blue bottom relay should release it I believe at some point... (right?).

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from jmbit:

(green-white-(looks like orange)

The red in the cloth wire cover often fades to orange, yellow or tan.

Quoted from jmbit:

The top relay should pull the AX into place (green and white), then the yellow blue bottom relay should release it I believe at some point... (right?).

Quoted from MarkG:

The "AX" coil fires and trips the relay at the start of reset and has a green-white-red wire on one solder lug. The "AX Reset" coil fires and resets or latches the relay at the end of reset. It has a yellow-blue-red wire on one solder lug.

If your AX relay isn't doing anything at all the first step is to get the AX (not AXR) coil to fire. There are just two switches that need to close:
Solar City AX relay (resized).jpgSolar City AX relay (resized).jpg

#7 2 years ago

MarkG looks like I’m back to where I started. Think when I was checking before I moved the GRN-WHT-RED contact on DX. Thank you!! Now the AX is engaging.

Guessing now I need to trace out the AXR?

#8 2 years ago

Same song, second verse.
Solar City AXR relay (resized).jpgSolar City AXR relay (resized).jpg
Note that AXR and BXR should fire together.
The P5A switch is on the Player Unit, 5th (black) cam, bottom of the switch stack.

#9 2 years ago

Just finished checking those, the P5A is closed while the motor (1-4) is running continuously. The P5A fires and runs a cycle. When start button is pushed it triggers the P5A. If I manually open P5A (yellow-Black) - Slate-Black. Score resets the entire player unit (positions FS relay runs, score 0 but the motor still runs and AXR and DXR do not fire. Motor 1B is open and makes connection as it spins to GRN-BLK and GR-WH-RED when the motor spins.

I triple checked everything from the beginning.

#10 2 years ago

Having a hard time following your description.

Quoted from jmbit:

the P5A is closed while the motor (1-4) is running continuously.

That makes sense but the rest, not so much.

You need the three switches in the schematic in reply #8 to all be closed (not just visibly, but electrically) at the same time for AXR to fire. Are the DX relay and Motor 4C switches closed too? If you jumper around one or more of the switches with an alligator clip test lead does AXR fire?

See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1st-ball-in-play-relay-#post-6603524 for example if an alligator clip is unfamiliar.

#11 2 years ago

MarkG, great call! tested with the alligator clips and noticed the Motor 4C was not making the best contact, sure looked like it but wasn't. Cleaned it up and adjusted and it now releases the AXR. Now I'm not getting ball kickout. I traced the O relay and was able to get it to pop with power from the 25V to BL+WH on the relay, and on the D switch. I've cleaned the 1C and the 2B best I can. I'm able to engage the O relay when putting power on either end of the 1C GRN+WH and SL-BLK. Also able to engage ball kicker with power on the Blk+yellow and sl black when connected to the ball return switch.

Startup instructions say the BX is engaged - I'll have a closer look at that one.

Thank you for the help!

#12 2 years ago

My gut says it’s something with the P relay player unit. It’s not engaging. Thoughts?

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from jmbit:

My gut says it’s something with the P relay player unit. It’s not engaging. Thoughts?

If the Add Player Unit relay (P) doesn't activate when the ball rolls over the Trough switch,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#14 2 years ago

MarkG HowardR thank you for the help. I think I have it firing. Looks to me like the R relay was releasing a little early. Ive tightened up the leaf switches cleaned them again and monitoring. Seems better! Thanks for the assistance.

Side note - do you guys have all the schematics on soft copy? Amazing!

1 year later
#15 1 year ago

Hoping you got your Solar City working all well and good.

I would like a photo of the player unit disc, with the game newly turned on, new game coined up, score reels all zero, drop targets reset, game reset completely, and ball in shooter lane.

If any of you have a machine with which to provide a photo, I would be so very appreciative.

I am working a Solar City startup issue, multiple problems have been cleared, for example P5B was never opening, the standup switch behind the right half of the rear drop target bank was bent completely down and trapped between the playfield bottom and the top edge of the drop target bank (10 point switch shorted closed condition), 2nd player 1000s zero switch never closing, and so on, and someone has messed with the position of the player unit disc.

So, thank you in advance.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from keith20mm:

and someone has messed with the position of the player unit dis

If it's not too far off you should be able to get it right by getting the Ball In Play lights correct:

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#17 1 year ago

Game manual/schematic mentions "zero position", but I don't see anything on the disc/cam indicating such.

The startup sequence step 6 states "When P5A on the player unit closes, the AX and BX reset through motor 4C and switches on DX and R. The reset cycle is now complete."

Is the "zero position" when the P5 cam single bump is on the P5 switch bank lifter, and, is this the same position as Player 1, Ball 1?

In other words, once "The reset cycle is now complete", that the player unit steps no more until player 1 ball 1 drains, and that the position you mention, Player 1, Ball 1 (both rivets and lights) is the same player disc position?

Again, a simple photo of the player unit after coin-up would probably show the disc position I am seeking.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from keith20mm:

Is the "zero position" when the P5 cam single bump is on the P5 switch bank lifter, and, is this the same position as Player 1, Ball 1?

Yes and yes

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