Multiball with no locks is extremely rare, too, so if it merely turns pf X on and then off again it's no big deal.

Yeah seems like a good idea. Was wondering what the new code does in the one-ball multiball scenario as far as the lock holes too. The pf X gets disabled, but then what about the lock holes? At that point are they still in 'multiball mode' where they will keep spitting that one ball out until you drain, or is multiball totally 'off' then and they will relock?

I just picked up this new Xgecu T48 programmer. Supposedly has support for 25v chips but I have not tried yet. Done 27C512 and 27C040 with it and it works fine.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804233005308.html

Between that thing and the TOP3000 I will probably retire the GX-4X and dual wield these two. TOP3000 for the 42pin EEPROMS i use on the combo ROMs and the Xgecu for everything else. Software seems good, they are all a little quirky.

W27C512-45 is my preferred part number for the 512K memory. Good EEPROM chip that can be erased electrically without UV.

I just added slochar's recent updates to the combo ROM used on the replacement MPU. Combo ROM list sheet and custom ROM readme files uploaded here.
https://nvram.weebly.com/mpu.html
https://nvram.weebly.com/custom-rom-info.html

I also bought one of these - been here a week and tomorrow I'll be programming some 2716 and 2732 EPROMs for test.

The XgPro software's logic test had 6821 there but it never worked on the previous programmer (TL866ii+). I notice they only list it on their high end T56 model now. Pity they didn't make it work with the T48 too.
BTW, 27C160 which fits your MPU boards combo ROM socket is supported using an adapter (which they haven't released yet). I know you're using an (E)EPROM but maybe they'll support that too.

I'll order a Weebly and install it (with the updated Lightning code), then when slochar finalizes the changes I'll check out the above burners and give it a shot. I can keep my old MPU as a known-working spare.

The MX29F1615 EEPROM version of 27C160 i use does not seem to be supported. I bought a top3000 pretty much just to do that chip, so no worries.

I decided to try XGecu T48 on a 25v chip. don't see M2732 or any 2532 listed but it had AM2732. I burned a M2732 as AM2732. It failed verify, re-burned it twice and it verifies okay. I will let it sit overnight and see if it still verifies OK. I just did about 20 AM27C040 with it and they where all OK first try.

If you burn the same data over and over again TOP3000 and XGPro software have some nice features to make it easy by detecting when a new chip is put in the socket.

I put the Weebly in set up for Lightning's V21 but I seem to have a problem. The center drop bank worked fine with the original board but with V21 it is failing to reset it no matter how many times I trigger the targets by pulling them up and dropping again (and they are absolutely scoring). Drops stay down and just keep scoring points and adding bonus forever once they are all down. If only one or two are down it will score the downed targets again at each ball serve but still won't reset them.

Center bank resets fine in solenoid test but not in play or at game start. The new multiball stuff works so I know I have V21. I switched the dips back to the original version and the bank works fine. Is it something to do with the new code to not reset banks that it sees are already up? Also tried the rom memory clear via the game dip switches, no change.

Just noticed the upper drop bank behaves the same w/V21, except it is on and off, sometimes it works, other times just quits resetting. Not seeing anything consistent as far as what causes it to fail or work.

Little more v21 testing - it's really goofy. The middle bank, if completed but still stuck 'down', will sometimes reset if I knock down the TOP bank, and vice versa. That's the only time I've seen the middle bank pop up at all during a game.

Nuther issue I noticed after putting in the Weebly, I switched the dips around several times to verify:

V21 - works but with above issues
Free play version - works fine.
Stock version - all five displays show a few static digits in different places after power up, can't start a game, attract mode lights are totally different. It's acting like I made an error in the dip switches but I used the current list of dip settings and I just bought the board, the chip in it is marked 8/22. Dip setting for stock code is 10100000.

Can anybody else verify this on their game? Again, zero issues with Free Play version so it doesn't seem like it's my machine. But I don't WANT the free play version.

Weebly sent me the corrected rom chip, also with Lightning v22, I'm trying out the new multiball logic. New rule 4 doesn't seem to be in effect, pf X loop is remaining active when multiball ends and only one ball left in play. But I had zero issue with that existing rule anyway. Starting multiball with no locked balls still lights pf X as before as well which I think is good, you're not getting 'ripped off'. Multiballs are now guaranteed to make it to the lower playfield instead of relocking, so scores should definitely go up, more pf X's etc. But starting multiball is not easy to begin with and it's a 7 digit game so no problem.
Thanks to barakandl and slochar for helping me get it up and running. NO MORE RELOCKS!

**Argh, was playing about my third game so of *course* one of my aftermarket drop targets snaps in half! Fortunately, just yesterday I was able to order a set of the stronger nylon tombstones from Australia that are not supposed to brick like these crummy hooded targets do. Sort of a bad timing/good timing thing.

304871566_1931368553920986_6118019157589108598_n (resized).jpg

Great to hear we have stable code without balls re-locking!

The playfield X loop remaining active when multiball ends and only one ball left in play and starting multiball with no locked balls still lighting playfield X is a personal preference thing, I guess. For me, it's not logical to have multiball rules while there isn't any multiball play.

Following general 'pinball logic' (and my personal preference), multiball rules should stop once multiball is over. For Lightning, that'd mean that the possibility to boost playfield X only exists in multiball play. However, the achieved playfield X during multiball can stay active for the remainder of that ball, also during single ball play.

I think it'd be cool to get a fairly high amount of points for making all standups during single ball play without any balls locked. Maybe accompanied by a distinctive sound effect once you've hit them all. Think of it as a single ball jackpot. This would make going for the standups without any balls locked a strategic goal. But, again: no playfield x boosting during single ball play, imho.

I figure now with all the multiballs staying in play until they drain, you're much more likely to get a higher pf X number anyway with three balls going below every time, and more multiballs up top (and balls you shoot up there during multiball) also now able to drop thru the upper flipper hole with a 50/50 chance of advancing pf X when it falls into the loop, since no more relocking. In the long run scores will go up.

With no balls locked, completing the arrows lights the loop so to me that is a good reward. The relocking multiball was *horrible* but how the pf X stayed on, I never thought boy that needs to be changed. I can see where turning off the pf X loop makes it a little more like how Black Knight works but in that case you *automatically* get the 3X and 2X during multiball, you don't have to advance it with a separate shot (during multiball to boot) like Lightning.

So far I'd say the very best thing about the new Lightning multiball is it makes multiball worth it now. And you KNOW it's always going to be frantic like multiball is supposed to be. The last 20 years I was like, oh great, maybe only one ball will relock within two seconds, what was the point, maybe I'll get lucky this time. I didn't want to watch. Sometimes I *didn't* for the first few seconds. And if I did, gee, maybe I should just let them dribble down the hole, it's like Multiball Death City up here. The original multiballs were always trying to see how insanely fast they could commit suicide in a dumb way before you even had a chance to lay a flipper on them, a chance to do anything. Was a drag when you had your eyes on the lower playfield and the next second you're looking around thinking, hey didn't I have another ball going, what happened to it?

Maybe they made them relock originally to compensate for the fact that where they are, they are so damn EASY to lock in the first place. You don't even really need to shoot at them, they seem to be more likely to be slung or bounced into the holes than if I take a whack at them, and you can only really do that on the center one and you really have to stick it.

Yes, with either 'one ball multiball', or after a real multiball ends with one ball left, pf X loop stays lit and continues to advance like the original.

Noticed that if 'one ball multiball' is started OR a real multiball is down to one ball left, the holes will go back to re-lock mode. At first I was expecting the ball to spit back out just like when you have multiple balls going... but with only one ball in play locking you're going to be served another ball anyway so it's not a ripoff, you're merely starting the locking process again.

I have ordered an Xgecu burner and a few 27C512 chips, might take me awhile to figure it out after I get it but when I do I'll try the newest Lightning stuff.

Oh so you don't need to use UV to erase them? Is that the only diff? Oh well I already have a UV nail polish light I bought for curing resin.

Okay so I got my new Xgecu T48 burner going (I think!). Loaded the unzipped Lightning vers 23 .512 file as is onto a 27C512 chip for use on my Weebly. Then I read it and looks like the correct same file (even though still says V21) so can I just pop this into the Weebly socket? I didn't change any of those settings from where the defaults were when I hit PROG so not sure if I might have missed something, never burned a chip before in my life.

Also how long do I UV these to erase them? This first chip I tried read all FFs which I'm guessing it was already erased.

Thanks

628x471 (resized).jpg

Heh-heyyy, looks like it's working, got version 23, I'll be playing around with it this week, thanks This is really neato.

Lightning testing, vers 23:

1. On 2 or 3 ball multiball with one ball left, pf X arrows remain active and can be advanced. So still seems to be a hitch in that change. The only time they go off during a ball in play is if you make it to 4X but that is stock.
2. Version # at power up or mpu reboot sometimes shows '23' but sometimes '33'.
3. The elimination of no-lock multiball looks to be working -- pf X loops stay off, turns the selected 4 red arrows off again and adds some extra points, plus the game says "Goddess angered", cool!

W27C512 is the best dip28 ROM and what I would recommend using. electrically erasable, the burner erases them pretty much instantly. Fast enough for anything in pinball. They made possibly billions of them, very common and cheap. Salvage pulls have been near 100% all working. UV EPROMs more of a headache with pealing labels over windows, and erasing, many more of salvaged EPROMs are duds vs the EEPROMs.

There's also the Winbond W27E512 (part number with the 'E' is a little more obvious that it's an electrically erasable PROM).
The W27E512 is more a military spec part. They're also plentiful and prices are the same.

That's a nice touch having text file details at the start of the ROM.

Example, powered up and booted, said '23', immediately flipped thru the coin door diagnostics to the end in order to reboot it again, now it said '33'. But the next time it could be different, no pattern I can see yet, each time you powerup or via the mpu reset button you could get 23 or 33.

Pf X advance disablement does work correctly in one circumstance I found so far - if you start a game with balls *already* locked in the holes, and you start multiball, *then* the pf X arrows turn off when you are down to one ball. Other than that, it doesn't seem to be turning off when multiball ends. So it is partially working.

Now I remember a thread I was in and mentioned that '17' question, and back then I noticed sometimes it showed '27' instead. That was with the original Stern board in it that I still have, with the factory roms. But same thing it's doing here, appearing to add 10 to it, sometimes. But it is still doing it with a new Weebly so I don't understand it, it's doing it with either MPU. Credit display digits all act perfect in display tests and during game and when showing match nbrs, diagnostic test nbrs etc.

Nothing shows up with wiggling/pulling/reseating the connector. When display is showing '33', hitting diagnostic button *immediately* starts display tests with '111111' and it shows correctly including the credit display. Only time I see a problem is when it's displaying 33 instead of 23. No intermitent behavior besides this.

It's changing the first digit from a 1 to a 2 (17 vs 27), or from a 2 to a 3 (23 vs 33). Like it's a logical thing, not just one digit with some goofed-up segments on the display's board or connector.

**Update - swapped in the credit display from my EBD as it was easier than messing with the pf bonus display. Still does the same thing, can display either 33 or 23 after rebooting/powerup. Depending on the weather.

On v23 the blue pf X arrows turned off completely (in that one scenario where it worked, starting a game with balls already in the locks and then getting multiball). Otherwise the arrows stay active and flashing after they should have been turned off.

That 23/33 thing is totally minor but still would be cool to figure out why/how it's doing it.

I'll give v24 a try, thanks!

Lightning v24 test: I can't get the pf X arrows to light/advance at all now. I tried the typical multiball scenarios and whether I lock the balls myself or I start a game with them already locked, no dice

Looks like the blue pf X arrows are shutting off correctly when multiball is down to only one ball now.

The arrows shutting off makes a ton more sense to me now after seeing it in action. There's more urgency in shooting the pf X loop before multiball ends, plus it adds to the difficulty since the loop is only lit while you're having to deal with two or three balls on the playfield(s) and not just one. And with the non-relocking balls, you *will* be dealing with more than one ball much more often during multiball. I like it!

This alll sounds very cool! I wish I had a Lightning close-by to experience it on.

I understand that, after Multiball, the PFx now stays on until the end of the ball, correct?

Here's a thought to play with:
Would it add to gameplay if the PFx would slowly decrement once you're back in 1-ball play? Something like -1 PFx every 10 seconds, accompanied by a sound effect for every PFx that gets decremented?

This would make it worthwhile to go for Multiball again during that same ball.

I think that would be overboard. Already resets at end of ball (whereas bonus X doesn't), and now stops advancing when multiball is over. Start stealing what I already earned from the loop shot? Too much. If I didn't have to earn it, like how BK just gives it to you depending on how many balls are in play, that would be different. Too much like a penalty, I'd start wondering if the loop shot was even worth the trouble.

I mean, in the end the question is how much of your time you want to spend on this code. You've already put many free hours in it, which is amazing as it stands.

That being said, I do think the decrement of PFx would be the icing on the New Multiball Rules-cake for Lightning.

Reason 1: When it comes to 'pinball logic', it would make sense that playfield X is on a timer (or decrements per X seconds) when in 1-ball play. The machines with this feature that I can think of all have this. Doctor Who comes to mind as an excellent example.

Reason 2: It's more fair towards other players if you're playing multiplayer: the player that gets multiball will almost always win, because of the unlimited playfield X scores that can make his score so much higher, even in the 1-ball play that follows after multiball.

Reason 3: It gives the player that already achieved Multiball a reason to go for Multiball again during the same ball.

That, and the decrement of PFx just gives a very nice polish to the code, imho.

But again: it's your free time. So you are the boss!