That would be quite interesting, but the pay is pretty low for the current market

Chat GTP and Me are on our way!

Lol. "AI" is very overrated IMO. Modern AI is just a correlation engine, that's all. Chat GPT, Googles new AI (that just screwed up), etc all needs data to spit out results. It's already been proven that complex AI results, such as those provided by Chat GPT, are no where near 100% accurate and should never be relied on for production use whether it be pinball machines, cars, IT, etc. Now I did just read about someone using Chat GPT to generate annual performance reports for their employees lol.

As much as I would love to do this job, I don't want to move to Chicago, and could not afford that kind of pay cut anyway.

Gonna be tough to snag an $80K a year software dev that isn't straight out of school. Even tougher for that kid to make in Chicagoland area on $80k, at least if they have a family to support. And if that kid is straight out of school, they're less likely to be strong C++ devs and more likely to be using managed languages like JS. Not saying there aren't candidates out there, just saying it might be a bit of a wait. I am going to pass this on to two C++ devs I know with tons of experience in Michigan. They've been working on an entertainment product used commercially and so this would be easy for them to adapt to.

If you ever need a mobile dev, hit me up (I wrote the IFPA mobile app). Otherwise, hopefully these two submit an app via indeed.

My boss wanted me to move to chicagoland about 15 years ago, offering me a 15% raise, which would have taken me over 80k. I said if i was going to move to an area with a cost of living 50% higher, with a smaller house, lot and a long crazy drive to work, i was going to need at least another 120k. Especially since my wife could no longer work as my parents and inlaws wouldn't be watching the kids anymore. There was no real upside.

But if you're looking for a remote, part time dev, I'm in.

What the what the hell are you guys wasting your money on? I could live like a king on 80k and I live in one of the most expensive countries in the world.

I'd love this job but no way would I live in the US.

Not everywhere in the US is as expensive as Chicago, you couldn't pay me to live in a big city. Don't know why JJP is requiring relocation there, other companies have coders working remotely.

Ya 80k is way under market. I pay my helpdesk staff more than that.
Software dev, in Chicago, 150k minimum

Check levels.fyi to see Chicago salaries: https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-chicago-area

Maybe 80K is a minimum? Or they are hoping that someone is willing to work cheap for the thrill of working on pinball machines.

It says from $80k so I’d guess someone with more experience would be paid higher. There is also a full benefit package with it.

From the job post: "Ability to take constructive criticism".

Cooooooool

Probably. I worked in the video game biz for 12 years and the play is very low compared to same roles in normal industries. Companies take advantage of the passion and excitement workers have for the work by paying less.

Scratching my head man. In a major city in the US, if you are single you can probably just get by on 80k. If you are a family, forget it, you probably couldn’t even afford to live there.

Yup. Location, years of experience, education background, and offered benefits all impact salary ranges. After doing some research $80k base for the Chicago area as a programmer is pretty spot on as an average base salary and as you said there's also the benefits. Contracting gigs can pay significantly more but then lack the benefits, and job security, of a full time position.

https://www.indeed.com/career/programmer/salaries/Chicago--IL

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/chicago-programmer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,7_IM167_KO8,18.htm

Those salaries are total compensation versus base salary. An $80k a year base salary job with great benefits, bonus, etc can come out to $120k+ in total compensation.

Oh, a $ discussion LoL.

I just completed the compensation review with my team. Tech company in Dallas. Bachelors, first job after school, $120k total. Experienced close to $200k.

Just for comparison.

But yes, not as cool as writing SW for another POTC update.

Hmm. How would you like to be an experienced programmer at JJP or Stern and have a new employee come in who's making the same or more than you and needs help from you? It's happened to a lot of us in a lot of different industries. Hard to get a raise organically, versus ask for money up-front based on a promise and potential that may not pan out for years if ever. Personally I respect an organization that is well aware of the potential of salary compression and has fair minded policies to make sure to retain their best and most experienced and proven employees.

The job ad should say, “Must be able to start projects, but never complete them”.

Pinball machines.

That’s extremely high imo for someone with no experience right out of school.

You couldn't live like YOUR king, the palace upkeep alone would probably consume your 80k in a week.
If you mean Elvis well yeah, he's dead so expenses are fairly low.

In the US we pay for a lot more things you don't. Our healthcare costs have a significant out of pocket component even with employer health insurance. Our public transit isn't great so we're driving everywhere. Our taxes are lower but our services are very expensive. We fund our own retirements and most jobs do not have pensions. The retirement component is really significant. If you have two adults working full time they should be maxing out their retirement contributions which in a 401K is $22,500 a year per person. We've chosen in the USA to make a lot of social services like retirement, transportation and infrastructure, healthcare, all that, is up to the individual. When you aren't paying $10k worth of healthcare and $20K worth of retirement and property taxes (in the UK the council tax is so ridiculously low compared to American property taxes)... it ends up being a wash at best. Hell, even filing your federal taxes is a cost we have to pay in the US (can be around $100), whereas in the UK anyone making less than $100K doesn't even have to file a return.

I got an offer of the same without any school/degree for my first dev job. I think JJP could do a bit better, but if it's 80k base + bonus incentives, they can find someone looking for their first dev role.

3-5 years C++ fetches over 100k base pretty regularly, but, maybe someone wants a sick gig in pinball instead of a soulless job in something like insurance (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Anyway, pretty cool opportunity for someone out there!

The real issue with the pay is software dudes are a dime a dozen now, no one wanted to get their hands dirty the last couple decades for the same pay, they'd rather sit Infront of a computer and develop blood clots.

Not saying software fellas aren't needed in life there's just too many of you so your pay creeps down or remains stagnant. Recent tech layoffs won't help, 80k ain't shit anymore. I can only imagine how crappy it is in Chicago.

Amazon pay for entry level engineer is like 170k - 200k. So it’s not really too crazy. Yeah Amazon is an extreme example but he’s talking a similar job another company in Dallas for 120k. Checks out

No offense, but your research isn't the same as the experience of many of us on here who work in the industry. Many kids straight out of school will make $100K as junior engineers. And typically benefits aren't going to be factored in; eg as professionals in an in-demand industry we expect good healthcare plans and a reasonable 401K match as entry into the game, so to speak. The job market in software engineering has radically changed especially since covid. Yes, big layoffs in 2022/2023 happened but remote work has meant that you don't have to live in a lot of areas to work in software. So you can make Boston money and live in Michigan, for instance.

Someone with good C++ engineering experience would only take this job as a passion project.

In toronto, most helpdesk, desktop support starts mid $50k.

If its a call center, even lower.

Where is this helpdesk? And are you hiring?

This just ain't the case. schools still graduate way less software engineers than the market needs. Almost every company has software engineers now. Every part of working is driven by software. Despite around 200,000 engineers being laid off the last 12 months, there are still 1 million open reqs in software and tech in the USA.

It's not that they don't want to get their hands dirty. It's that we've been funneled away from trades and skilled labor by social pressure (parents, education institutions, etc). Also, our social structures suck when it comes to running your own business and being a tradesman. You are buying expensive health insurance, you are doing a job that will lead to pain and arthritis, and all we do is guarantee social security, which isn't enough to live on. At least with software engineering, there's a 401k match, a health plan, and our hands, knees and back won't be in constant pain. If you want more people to "get their hands dirty", they won't when there's a better paying option with better benefits in front of a computer.

My dude, I have a pension plan, annuity, matching 401k, 100 percent coverage health insurance with no premium- 600 dollar deductible. And I make a healthy 6 figures, no student loans. All working for the man on elevators/escalators, I think you are repeating lies you've began to believe from college. Other trades doing well and on the way up too. I'm simply saying everyone and their brother are going into some sort of computer science, and the field saturated.

Our software engineering dept in New Jersey has hundreds of applicants when a job opens up. I'm sure this depends on the market, I can see CA bring very saturated and Midwest no so much. Cheers

Actually that is a concern, I know it always has been with me. Sitting all day is not healthy.

At some point for most of us, becoming a homeowner, from accumulating all that white collar take home pay, will turn us into a tradesman in no time. As a homeowner, sweat on a water valve (check), install copper piping, (check) remove and replace all attic insulation and vacuum clean (check - just did this by my lonesome 100 hours of labor - very complicated attic space with a furnace up there, sheet metal ducting, air hosing, PVC pipes, wiring cables, low roof all making tight spaces, ripping up installed plywood over the joists for insulation access)...Paint some rooms (check), install a wood floor (check), rip out and replace carpet (check), home landscaper (check)...All of these done as well as a professional tradesman. (Trained by Dad. )Anything except to code wiring for me, which my Dad could do in spades and he was white collar as well. People today are as rounded as they've always been. Oh yeah, I "manage" a basement arcade as well. I am a software engineer/developer. My point is, it's not a zero sum game, either white collar or blue collar. There's alot of cross functionality required in life.

This post reeks of "nobody wants to work anymore" and points to a rudimentary lack of understanding about how the job market actually works in 2023.

Congrats on getting a job 20 years ago that values you. Sincerely.

At this time on Indeed:
25 openings for an elevator technician.
14605 full stack engineer jobs available using the same search criteria.

Side note: you don't need a degree to get into software development.

I'm available. Already know the "system".

LTG : )

That's a completely ridiculous argument there is no mic drop there for you bud, all that shows is I have a more specialized niche field, I would argue that a lot of those job openings in your field are so you can replace somebody that is being paid more, because there's so many of you, they can just replace you and THEY DO this happens daily in your field ,you end up training your replacements and post about it on Reddit all defeated and sad.

Actually software positions have quite a moat around them. Software is, as I like to describe it, a black hole of information/technologies, there are so many permutations for job requirements that trying to know it all will be way too time consuming. Everyone goes into a job with a "working knowledge" of some of it, but your long term employees have mastered it. So many software languages and specific operating systems, embedded, desktop, cloud, applications, scripting, Web technologies, cyber security, AI, networking etc. Companies value the proven employees that they have for this reason. A software career is a career of learning new technology. People that get and master things quickly are of tremendous value.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I respect trades. I respect anyone working anywhere doing any thing. But if you think software jobs are saturated, you are simply wrong.

https://www.bairesdev.com/blog/inside-todays-software-developer-shortage/#key-statistics-at-a-glance

Fair

Can't find good C++ coders to save my life! They are nowhere near over-supplied!

This is a cool opportunity for someone who is passionate about the hobby. JJP isn't an idiot and the job says 'from 80k'. We all know experience and fit for job plays a role in salary negotiations and this position is no different. Thanks for sharing this here. Earlier in my career I may have jumped on this!

I’m not high up enough in management to actually decide pay and I have limited knowledge what is “normal” for electrical engineers (with software skills).

What I do know though is that it’s extremely difficult finding talented people. As long as FAANG were actively hiring, it was almost impossible finding people with the required skills unless $$$$$.

An $80k salary for a SW engineer is (was?) not competitive if one of the big sexy companies offers way more.

Well, I coded video games for a long time, and I haven't made only $80K since Bill Clinton was president (and that wasn't counting royalties). For me to even consider relocating to Chicago, the salary would have to be more than double that.

Of course, I'm probably over-qualified for what they are looking for, as I have over 30 years of C/C++ experience.

But in my experience, software dev salaries can vary wildly even in the same area...and getting QUALITY people is not easy.

The $80k was listed as “from”, which I’m assuming is more limited experience. Coming right out of school making $80k seems like a pretty good salary plus the benefits. We don’t know what the salary range is, but I’m willing to bet someone with 5-10 years experience isn’t going to take the job for $80k. However, there are a lot of people getting laid off in the tech sector right now and from what I understand, they are landing new jobs with smaller companies. Perhaps someone who got laid off would take this position to capture the benefits until the broader sector picks back up.

I'm sure they'll find someone to take this role, some single guy who loves pinball and has no other attachments to an area who can move there. I can't see anyone who has a family/responsibilities taking a huge pay cut just to do this, the skills needed for this start at like $125k for a remote position...I know because I'm in this exact field. The #1 mistake I see people making is staying in their career too long at one company. Maybe 40 years ago that was a good idea, now it's all about giving you the smallest raise possible while making the most profit, and the only way to really get what you're worth is to go to another company for a raise.

It would be a fun job, but essentially you're losing $3k a month to work a pinball job vs a different job, that's a hard pill to swallow longer term.

Money pays the bills but money should be second to doing what you love. Otherwise you’ll end up like those doctors and lawyers who liquidate and live out in the woods cause they got burnt out.

There's some truth to that, but only to a point. Because while coaching basketball might be what I would love to do, it would pay me like 20% of what a software engineer does, so while I'm not coaching for a living, I can afford other things that I love that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. Like if you had the choice of running a pinball magazine for $30k which you love, or being at a job which you mostly like for $150k but could afford all of the pinball machines you wanted to buy, is the first job going to make you that much more happier?

Not having money leads to a lot of stress even if you love your job. Been there, done that. I'm sure a lot of us have.

My opinion is that you can job hop to a raise, yes, but not a promotion. Promotion is a long term stabilized career financial leg up that happens organically at the company you stay at long enough and prove yourself of the next level. One time raises pale in comparison.