(Topic ID: 295323)

So why is pinball out of Chicago?

By Viggin900

4 months ago


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    There are 120 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 4 months ago

    The increasing prices of pinball machines comes from wages and taxes. So why are they made in the city with the highest rates? I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck! Not saying Northern Kentucky has the entertainment of a big city but Amazon has made us the hub of america because of cheap wages, railroad, and an international airport. So how much cheaper would it be to manufacture pinball outside of Chicago? I am surrounded by car part factories for this reason. Square foot building in Chicago versus somewhere else is 8x as much? Pointless, I say move.

    #2 4 months ago

    Because they have always been made in Chicago - tradition!

    I imagine most, if not ALL, of the parts suppliers are also located there or nearby.

    #3 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    The increasing prices of pinball machines comes from wages and taxes. So why are they made in the city with the highest rates? I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck! Not saying Northern Kentucky has the entertainment of a big city but Amazon has made us the hub of america because of cheap wages, railroad, and an international airport. So how much cheaper would it be to manufacture pinball outside of Chicago? I am surrounded by car part factories for this reason. Square foot building in Chicago versus somewhere else is 8x as much? Pointless, I say move.

    Most machining factories are in Chicago, basically all the metals and plastic they need are produced there.

    #4 4 months ago

    It's a manufacturing hub, and much of the supporting materials and product is there.

    Plus a lot of the manufacturing and design talent is there.

    If you need that supply chain to manufacture your product, then it makes sense to be there too.

    Keep in mind that JJP was in NJ for several years before they finally uprooted and moved to Chicago.

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    #5 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    The increasing prices of pinball machines comes from wages and taxes.

    What’s the source of this information?

    Personally I think the rising cost of new pinball is more because they can and people keep paying up

    #6 4 months ago

    Some of the people you really need to design, program, and build pinball machines, live in the Chicago area.

    And aren't likely to move if the factory were to leave Chicago.

    LTG : )

    #7 4 months ago

    Don't remember which show it was, but not long after Stern announced they would move across town into a bigger factory, Gary Stern did an interview in the parking lot outside the show. He talked about how other states had offered them generous financial incentives to move the factory to their state. He said that in the end, the local suppliers were too critical to the business. Having them out of state wouldn't work.

    If I remember right, they also got financial incentives for their new location, although not as much as the out of state incentives. Deeproot said they were going to do everything in-house. I believe they've changed that stance. The pinball industry relies on outside suppliers and likely always will. Why do you think JJP moved manufacturing to Chicago?

    The 'parking lot interview' used to be on youtube. Been gone for a few years.

    45
    #8 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck!

    Nope.

    If he made at least $518k a year he'd pay:
    4.95% IL tax, plus
    37% top federal rate, plus
    6.2% social security, plus
    1.45% medicare, for a total of
    49.6% but effectively less, since only the first $142,800 is taxed for social security, and most of his federal tax would be at marginal rates lower than 37%.

    I bet his story goes up a couple percent every time he tells it.

    #9 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    The increasing prices of pinball machines comes from wages and taxes. So why are they made in the city with the highest rates? I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck! Not saying Northern Kentucky has the entertainment of a big city but Amazon has made us the hub of america because of cheap wages, railroad, and an international airport. So how much cheaper would it be to manufacture pinball outside of Chicago? I am surrounded by car part factories for this reason. Square foot building in Chicago versus somewhere else is 8x as much? Pointless, I say move.

    Yeah I agree. They should move to Kentucky...........Not!!! Lol.
    You’re using Amazon as an example?!! What exactly do they make?
    Isn’t Amazon just giant holding facilities of products created by other companies?
    And most of their product are made from sellers in China, correct?
    It might be cheaper to go to Kentucky, Montana or even India but it would be a logistical nightmare and the pinball talent is non-existent.

    “If all you want is a guarantee, I can take a shit in a box and slap a guarantee on it. Believe me, I’ve got the time.”

    15
    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    4.95% IL tax

    I just checked, Kentucky is 5%, so your neighbor’s income tax actually went up .05% when he moved. Bummer.

    #11 4 months ago

    Skilled labor shortages are a real thing. More rural areas have a tough time pulling in specialized labor compared to larger metro centers.

    #12 4 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    I just checked, Kentucky is 5%, so your neighbor’s income tax actually went up .05% when he moved. Bummer.

    Perhaps he included his property taxes. That would make a huge difference here in NJ. Plenty of people are paying way over 10% of the income to that here. Not sure how bad Chicago are is.

    12
    #13 4 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    I just checked, Kentucky is 5%, so your neighbor’s income tax actually went up .05% when he moved. Bummer.

    He'll be saving money on property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, utility taxes, business taxes, etc... IL is at the top of the list for taxes overall.

    #14 4 months ago

    To the Ops post - IL is the best place for pinball manufacturing, even with the high taxes. Spooky benefits from being in WI, but still very close to the "pinball hub" of manufacturers. Close enough to drive back and forth at least.

    10
    #15 4 months ago

    The deep dish pizza

    11
    #16 4 months ago
    Quoted from jaytrem:

    Perhaps he included his property taxes. That would make a huge difference here in NJ. Plenty of people are paying way over 10% of the income to that here. Not sure how bad Chicago are is.

    I'm surprised no one is outraged the state can seize 50% of a mans earnings and not complain, even think its laudable.

    And its north of that when you factor in every tax at point of sale and vehicle and property taxes.

    #17 4 months ago

    I would assume that the software developers could be located elsewhere, factory workers could not be, just like other industries. The fact that everyone is located in Chicago is kind of cool, if you ask me. This industry makes rock stars out of designers and developers and artists, that is the coolest part I think, as a career long engineer myself, seeing that a computer scientist or mechanical/electrical engineer or artist can be thought of that way. I think it would be cool for a podcaster to interview some of the factory talent as well.

    #19 4 months ago

    Since Jersey Jack move TO the Chicago area, I would guess that there are good, pinball and coin op industry based reasons to be there.
    I'm just glad that they aren't manufacturing in China or Bangladesh.

    #20 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck!

    Sorry jason, but this isn’t even possible. Maybe in Canada, but not here.

    #21 4 months ago
    Quoted from jaytrem:

    Perhaps he included his property taxes. That would make a huge difference here in NJ. Plenty of people are paying way over 10% of the income to that here. Not sure how bad Chicago are is.

    How much of your paycheck goes to property tax in NJ? 0%.

    #22 4 months ago

    Ohio would be a great place for a pinball manufacturer to set up shop.

    For pinball to be somewhere else, someone just needs to set up shop somewhere else.

    #23 4 months ago

    Don't forget TollWays *if* you commute and have to drive them.

    #24 4 months ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    I recently had a neighbor move from Chicago because they were taxing 65% of his paycheck!

    I recently moved out of Illinois myself, but 65%?

    Top federal tax rate is 37%.
    Illinois income tax is 4.95%.
    SS: 6.2%
    Medicare: 1.45%
    Extra Medicare if you make over $250k: 0.9%

    Total: 50.5%, but that's high since no one pays the top rate on all of their income.
    More if you're self employed I guess and have to pay the employer's share of SS.

    Edit: oops, should have read the entire thread. yancy beat me to the punch.

    #25 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    How much of your paycheck goes to property tax in NJ? 0%.

    Property and vehicle taxes in CT cost me over 5k per year.

    #26 4 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Property and vehicle taxes in CT cost me over 5k per year.

    But they aren’t payroll taxes. OP said 65% of his check goes to taxes. Property tax is not a payroll tax. Nothing is withheld from your check for that.

    #27 4 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Property and vehicle taxes in CT cost me over 5k per year.

    Try property taxes of $12k here in Massachusetts. Not complaining but for a few years there we were paying $1000 a month in property taxes and $750 a WEEK in daycare on top of all the other taxes. Think about that. Kids (2) were too young at that time to be in public school, so our property taxes were not returning anything really to us AND paying daycare on top of that. $9000 for a pin seems like an easy stretch in comparison to me.

    #28 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    But they aren’t payroll taxes. OP said 65% of his check goes to taxes. Property tax is not a payroll tax. Nothing is withheld from your check for that.

    Even so, if someone is paying the highest tax rates, property taxes are going to be a relatively small percentage of their income compared to everything else.

    My property taxes in Illinois were $12k, but that's not the reason I'm building a house in Indiana (still commuting to Chicago). My daughter is starting at Purdue this fall, and the difference between in-state and out of state tuition is huge.

    #29 4 months ago

    Pretty stealthy thread.

    #30 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    But they aren’t payroll taxes. OP said 65% of his check goes to taxes. Property tax is not a payroll tax. Nothing is withheld from your check for that.

    Splitting hairs at this point in my opinion.

    "check goes to taxes"

    Does it matter if it is lifted out right before the check is handed to you or immediately afterwords when you make your first purchase?

    If they don't grab it at payroll its just thefted after. And some areas have a higher rate of confiscation than others.

    #31 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    But they aren’t payroll taxes. OP said 65% of his check goes to taxes. Property tax is not a payroll tax. Nothing is withheld from your check for that.

    Doesn't really matter how the various levels of government takes the money. Point is the property taxes can take a huge chunk of your earnings. We're pushing 14k. I suspect a similar house in KY would be a little lower.

    #32 4 months ago

    We have something called “Homesteaders” here in Colorado. If you own your property at least 10 years once you turn 65, you pay half your property taxes. I just found out about that a few weeks ago.

    #33 4 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Splitting hairs at this point in my opinion.
    "check goes to taxes"
    Does it matter if it is lifted out right before the check is handed to you or immediately afterwords when you make your first purchase?
    If they don't grab it at payroll its just thefted after. And some areas have a higher rate of confiscation than others.

    Even if you include the other stuff, not 65%. Who says the person even owns property that is taxed?

    I have trouble seeing how anyone in any state in the US sends 65% of their gross wages off to some taxing authority unless they are being charged interest and penalties out the wazoo. Haha

    14
    #34 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Even if you include the other stuff, not 65%. Who says the person even owns property that is taxed?
    I have trouble seeing how anyone in any state in the US sends 65% of their gross wages off to some taxing authority unless they are being charged interest and penalties out the wazoo. Haha

    I don't see a lot of difference between 50% and 65% frankly.

    If a man works and 100% of his wages are taken its slavery.

    What is it called if only 50% is taken? Try not paying and see what happens.

    #35 4 months ago
    Quoted from floyd1977:

    Even so, if someone is paying the highest tax rates, property taxes are going to be a relatively small percentage of their income compared to everything else.
    My property taxes in Illinois were $12k, but that's not the reason I'm building a house in Indiana (still commuting to Chicago). My daughter is starting at Purdue this fall, and the difference between in-state and out of state tuition is huge.

    How long do you have to be living in Indiana to qualify for in state tuition? Seems like you are cutting it close for the first school year.

    #36 4 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I don't see a lot of difference between 50% and 65% frankly.

    Hahahaha. Well I do.

    #37 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I have trouble seeing how anyone in any state in the US sends 65% of their gross wages off to some taxing authority unless they are being charged interest and penalties out the wazoo. Haha

    It could be possible somewhere like CA where they have a top state income tax rate of like 12%, and if you include property tax, sales tax, etc.

    Illinois? I'd be interested to see the situation, but 65% sounds like someone spouting off.

    #38 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Even if you include the other stuff, not 65%. Who says the person even owns property that is taxed?
    I have trouble seeing how anyone in any state in the US sends 65% of their gross wages off to some taxing authority unless they are being charged interest and penalties out the wazoo. Haha

    Just a matter of time with the current fed in-powers.

    #39 4 months ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    How long do you have to be living in Indiana to qualify for in state tuition? Seems like you are cutting it close for the first school year.

    You're right. It's not happening for the 2021/2022 school year. I'm hoping to be in the house by the end of this year. You have to establish residency for a year, so we're hoping we'll qualify by the Spring 2023 semester, which means we'll be paying full freight for at least 3 semesters.

    #40 4 months ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Just a matter of time with the current fed in-powers.

    Never happened in the history of the US, but I guess there’s a first time for everything!

    #41 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Never happened in the history of the US, but I guess there’s a first time for everything!

    The highest income tax rate jumped from 15 percent in 1916 to 67 percent in 1917 to 77 percent in 1918.
    In 1944, the top rate peaked at 94 percent on taxable income over $200,000 ($2.5 million in today’s dollars).

    (got to pay for those wars somehow)

    #42 4 months ago

    Dang! Well let’s hope that doesn’t happen again! I’d have to sell all my pins.

    #43 4 months ago
    Quoted from floyd1977:

    The highest income tax rate jumped from 15 percent in 1916 to 67 percent in 1917 to 77 percent in 1918.
    In 1944, the top rate peaked at 94 percent on taxable income over $200,000 ($2.5 million in today’s dollars).
    (got to pay for those wars somehow)

    Reagan was asked why he only did 2 movies a year when he was an actor during this timeframe.

    Because the Federal Government would seize all monies earned from the third movie was his reply.

    #44 4 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    Nope.
    If he made at least $518k a year he'd pay:
    4.95% IL tax, plus
    37% top federal rate, plus
    6.2% social security, plus
    1.45% medicare, for a total of
    49.6% but effectively less, since only the first $142,800 is taxed for social security, and most of his federal tax would be at marginal rates lower than 37%.
    I bet his story goes up a couple percent every time he tells it.

    So things like property tax? Sales tax? Government fees? Disability insurance tax? Unemployment insurance tax? Gasoline tax? Tolls? Telephone tax? Capital gains tax? Dividend tax? Gift tax? Vehicle registrations? Various licenses? Cigarette tax? Hotel tax? Don’t exist…

    Think you’re missing quite a bit from your list.

    #45 4 months ago
    Quoted from floyd1977:

    The highest income tax rate jumped from 15 percent in 1916 to 67 percent in 1917 to 77 percent in 1918.
    In 1944, the top rate peaked at 94 percent on taxable income over $200,000 ($2.5 million in today’s dollars).
    (got to pay for those wars somehow)

    They had write-offs that existed back then that don’t exist today.

    1986 tax code cleaned a lot of that up. No one paid that rate back then.

    #46 4 months ago

    Sorry, if this was mentioned but Illinois has high property taxes, used to fund schools so some area's in the state are very high.

    However, Illinois doesn't tax retirement income, SS, retirement account withdrawals and pensions. We have that going for us.

    Cheers

    #47 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    How much of your paycheck goes to property tax in NJ? 0%.

    Thank you letting me know that my property taxes in NJ are zero.

    I’ll make sure to show my town your post.

    Where do you think the money comes from to pay the property tax?

    #48 4 months ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    Thank you letting me know that my property taxes in NJ are zero.
    I’ll make sure to show my town your post.
    Where do you think the money comes from to pay the property tax?

    Not from payroll tax that’s for sure!

    #49 4 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Not from payroll tax that’s for sure!

    LOL!!!!!!!

    #50 4 months ago

    Chicago area living is very expensive, drinks are expensive, food is expensive, taxes are high, but its a fun place if your young. I know because I was kicked out of literally every bar and club in the city. No one understood my drinking habits, oh well.

    Good times.

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