Medieval Madness
Williams, 1997Quoted from KoolMoeCraig:I agree with this. If people knew they were going to be made endlessly, $8000 would never have been the price. I would bet 6-7.
They aren't being made endlessly, unless you also consider every Stern pin to be made endlessly too.
Quoted from KoolMoeCraig:That's another thing I hate - "LE" crap
The only reason those tiers were created was to milk as much cash as possible out of the wealthier collectors who drove up the prices of the machines to begin with. Literally the only reason. Stern saw the aftermarket and wanted a piece for himself. Can't blame him but man what a bummer.
Yes, but for one moment in time, with Tron, LE really meant something.
Quoted from KoolMoeCraig:That's another thing I hate - "LE" crap
The only reason those tiers were created was to milk as much cash as possible out of the wealthier collectors who drove up the prices of the machines to begin with. Literally the only reason. Stern saw the aftermarket and wanted a piece for himself. Can't blame him but man what a bummer.
Sorta....but also, remember Stern was on the verge of going bust a few years ago. While the LE was created to attract a certain type of collector, it was really an attempt to guarantee a minimum amount of units going out the door. The higher price allowed for that minimum amount of units sold to keep everyone paid and the lights on. The Pro/Premium sales were the gravy. If a game was a "flop", at least they could break even from the LEs. The tier system was a business plan intended to keep the doors open & reduce the risk of a flop crippling the company.
Quoted from Rarehero:Sorta....but also, remember Stern was on the verge of going bust a few years ago. While the LE was created to attract a certain type of collector, it was really an attempt to guarantee a minimum amount of units going out the door. The higher price allowed for that minimum amount of units sold to keep everyone paid and the lights on. The Pro/Premium sales were the gravy. If a game was a "flop", at least they could break even from the LEs. The tier system was a business plan intended to keep the doors open & reduce the risk of a flop crippling the company.
You've got it all convoluted. At no point in time did Stern say "our pros aren't selling so let's make an even more expensive model to get guaranteed money." In fact the whole LE sales model only accelerated only when Stern was already in the black, and it was clear and the market wanted LEs.
LEs are limited for no other reason than to drive up per-unit price and initial sales due to artificial scarcity, but putting all your sales on announcement day also means less sales in the following months. Also, considering Stern is the only pinball manufacturer that officially does *not* allow pre-orders, they have no way to pre-plan guaranteed minimum sales, so that theory just doesn't hold water.
Quoted from Rarehero:So - if I have a choice now to buy 1 of 2 MMs, and one has better sound - wouldn't it make sense to pick the one with better sound?
Not in all cases.
It's all "subjective" to the buyer, greg. (As you like to argue) You think sound is better, go for it. Another guy might like the original, does that make him wrong in your eye? Another guy might like something else. It's all good.
Sound only matters to the sound guy, not to all buyers. You can't group it all into "sound", or any other category. That's narrow minded thinking. 
Quoted from Baiter:You've got it all convoluted. At no point in time did Stern say "our pros aren't selling so let's make an even more expensive model to get guaranteed money." In fact the whole LE sales model only accelerated only when Stern was already in the black, and it was clear and the market wanted LEs.
LEs are limited for no other reason than to drive up per-unit price and initial sales due to artificial scarcity, but putting all your sales on announcement day also means less sales in the following months. Also, considering Stern is the only pinball manufacturer that officially does *not* allow pre-orders, they have no way to pre-plan guaranteed minimum sales, so that theory just doesn't hold water.
The machines (before they were called Pros) weren't selling! CSI, 24, NBA...flop flop flop...Iron Man did OK, Big Buck didn't sell that well, Avatar started slow - Then they did Tron and decided to do the LE to attract a different type of customer/market. Those 400 Trons moved pretty quickly - they never even made an official page for Tron LE on their website.
Stern doesn't do pre-orders to customers, but distributors can secure orders based on what they think demand might be. Sure, the LEs aren't guaranteed to sell out (Rolling Stones)...but most of them have all sold through to distributors. Selling to distributors = guaranteed units built/sold as far as Stern is concerned.
Quoted from Baiter:You've got it all convoluted. At no point in time did Stern say "our pros aren't selling so let's make an even more expensive model to get guaranteed money."
That's essentially what they said, yes, as I understand it. The investment group was brought in to save a dying company (led by Dave Peterson). He created the Pro/Premium model, and built the LE model up from it's more modest earlier attempts. This was a real change from Gary's vision earlier, which was all about ops. Pro sales are up, but up from a pretty horrible bottom. The home collector matters in a way we simply didn't to "old Stern". The whole point of a limited edition is to create artificial demand, the "guaranteed money".
Quoted from vex:all flaccid themes to me, how could they not flop
That is true lol....pinball sales aren't an exact science....but you do need to start with a theme that really resonates with potential buyers in order to hope for good sales.
Quoted from Hondanut:Just sold my MM for a little less than $7,000 to make room for the MMRLE!
good decision. 1000$ for the upgraded bnib version is what i would have done myself. i hope you can sleep at night knowing the williams logo will not be present 
Quoted from Hondanut:Just sold my MM for a little less than $7,000 to make room for the MMRLE!
Damn I missed out! Do you have any more imaginary pins available?!?
Quoted from vex:did i miss something here? is hondanut lying about selling a machine? why would he lie about something so unimportant? seems crazy to me.
Are you new here?
Quoted from RobT:Are you new here?
i found the thread...lol yes i am new here! 
Quoted from vex:i found the thread...lol yes i am new here!
I know you aren't of course (how long has it been since we did the deal for the Tommy? Man, time flies!), I was just being sarcastic regarding the fact that people would lie about something as unimportant as selling a pin, when we've seen it here many times in the past. Crazy? Yes. But there is no shortage of crazy on Pinside!
Does the SWE1 thread ring any bells? 
Quoted from RobT:I know you aren't of course (how long has it been since we did the deal for the Tommy? Man, time flies!), I was just being sarcastic regarding the fact that people would lie about something as unimportant as selling a pin, when we've seen it here many times in the past. Crazy? Yes. But there is no shortage of crazy on Pinside!
Does the SWE1 thread ring any bells?
i think 3 years ago was the tommy deal done? love tthe game. robert gagno, a local pinball wizard, came by the other day and destroyed my high score after 2 games on tommy. acdc and metallica beat him up pretty good though 
yeah lots of crazy here here
sold a mm on ebay for 9500 bout a month ago. it was a nice game. not perfect but pretty good over all from my point of view. ebay n paypal got 500....
Quoted from DoubleOughtPBs:sold a mm on ebay for 9500 bout a month ago. it was a nice game. not perfect but pretty good over all from my point of view. ebay n paypal got 500....
Not everyone knows about the MMr project, especially people on ebay. Someone probably thought they got an amazing deal at $9500! LOL.
Quoted from vex:i think 3 years ago was the tommy deal done? love tthe game
Good taste. 
While the debate rages on, I just put up a new high score on my first play tonight. Man I love me some MM.
image.jpgI want to. Where and how much? Simply google search or is there a certain place to work with? Thanks much.
Quoted from CyberNinja24:I want to. Where and how much? Simply google search or is there a certain place to work with? Thanks much.
www.colordmd.com
http://shop.colordmd.com/colordmd-replacement-display-for-medieval-madness-pinball/
Quoted from Rarehero:Stern doesn't do pre-orders to customers, but distributors can secure orders based on what they think demand might be. Sure, the LEs aren't guaranteed to sell out (Rolling Stones)...but most of them have all sold through to distributors. Selling to distributors = guaranteed units built/sold as far as Stern is concerned.
I just think it's as simple as this: Stern makes LEs because they are higher profit games, and the artificial scarcity is a contributor to that profit margin. Anything else is more like a side effect. They don't use unofficial pre-orders to support allocations, it's more like a guess because they constantly get it wrong.
Quoted from Baiter:I just think it's as simple as this: Stern makes LEs because they are higher profit games, and the artificial scarcity is a contributor to that profit margin. Anything else is more like a side effect. They don't use unofficial pre-orders to support allocations, it's more like a guess because they constantly get it wrong.
Agreed. I'm just saying they started the LE thing to gain a different customer base (much like what Jack wanted to do with WOZ). Collectors who will pay more for collectible fully featured games. By getting this extra customer base it was more likely they'd be able to have a more stable business. No guarantees, of course...but that was the rationale and it has worked.
Quoted from KoolMoeCraig:Why is there nothing like the original? The remakes are going to be just like an original, only improved.
you do realize you contradict yourself right?
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:The question ones asks himself is "would I trade my HUO ACDCPremium, made in March/April 2013 for an MM like this"?
You would be getting the better end of the deal if you did.
Quoted from Hondanut:Just sold my MM for a little less than $7,000 to make room for the MMRLE!
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/medieval-madness-for-sale-7250
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