(Topic ID: 309841)

So what happened? what are your thoughts? TAF / TZ

By ShinyBall

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by mbaumle
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    There are 92 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 2 years ago
    Quoted from Purdue:

    +modern stern flipper feel

    This seems to be a recent phenomenon. To me, the B/W flippers and feel are still the pinnacle of pinball. There's nothing wrong with Stern's flippers, but they feel a little more 'clacky', for lack of a better word. I have a little more difficultly doing finesse moves like mini-flips, cradle seperations and drop passes compaired to B/W flippers. Only over the last few years have I seen people claiming Sterns have a superior feel. I can only guess that they have played way more Stern games than B/W, so they have just become used to them, and/or the B/W games they did play needed a rebuild.

    #52 2 years ago
    Quoted from Betelgeuse:

    This seems to be a recent phenomenon. To me, the B/W flippers and feel are still the pinnacle of pinball. There's nothing wrong with Stern's flippers, but they feel a little more 'clacky', for lack of a better word. I have a little more difficultly doing finesse moves like mini-flips, cradle seperations and drop passes compaired to B/W flippers. Only over the last few years have I seen people claiming Sterns have a superior feel. I can only guess that they have played way more Stern games than B/W, so they have just become used to them, and/or the B/W games they did play needed a rebuild.

    Both Stern and fresh B/W flippers feel great to me. Stern's a hair snappier I agree.

    #53 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    TZ will always be the greatest. Never cared for TAF that much although its a great game

    Agree. I have been playing the heck out of my TZ recently ..... you can just lose yourself so deep in it. Its a masterpiece - I feel for those pinball folk that just don't 'get it'

    I had TAF for about 10 years, fun classic but I dont really miss it and it comes nowhere close to keeping me interested like TZ does.

    #54 2 years ago

    Lots of new entrants to pinball in recent years, mostly drawn in by newer stern and JJP games they see in barcades. That is what they know, like and provide ratings on. Not surprising to see BW games fall in rankings. This speaks nothing about how good or bad TZ/TAF might be. MM,MB and AFM are still ranked higher, perhaps due to the remakes.

    #55 2 years ago

    Never forget the genius of the .........

    POWERBALLLLLLLLL !

    So clever. People new to the game freakout when it appears.
    Powerball Mania is fantastic - getting 2 or 3 balls up on to the powerfield ! Though recently I have been really enjoying keeping the PB out of the Gumball. Keep it locked away and then nail Jackpots with it for Double Jackpots ....so satisfying

    #56 2 years ago

    I really wish the powerball was utilized just a little more. The second it's given to the player, the game wants it back. Why not let the player do a little more with it? I always thought there should be another qualification shot to re-light the gumball machine to lock it back up to before starting powerball mania.

    I do think it's super clever how the game doubles a jackpot made with the powerball, since it can't be caught by the left spiral helper.

    #57 2 years ago

    You guys are now making me miss my TZ

    #58 2 years ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    How about these two words: Keith Elwin. All of his games are ranked higher.
    How about two better words: Lyman Sheats. Look how many games he coded that are higher than both TAF and TZ.
    And if we were ranking from the standpoint of guys like me (amusements operators that have been doing it all their life), no pin would be higher than TAF. Best. Earning. Pin. EVER.

    90s code was 90s code for a reason. Pinball wasn't supposed to go in people's homes. TZ was ahead if its time. TAF serves its purpose well.

    #59 2 years ago

    Specifically flipper strength. Although a "newer Stern" may seem to have snappier flippers at first glance... after you play a competitive hour long four player game with steep ramps, it becomes VERY obvious that once the flippers heat up, their "strength" quickly decreases to "limp noodle" status on the final ball(s).

    The B/W system held up to those tough conditions MUCH better. Not saying one is better than the other, just speaking my competitive experience with larger tournaments, leagues, and local bars.

    #60 2 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    90s code was 90s code for a reason. Pinball wasn't supposed to go in people's homes. TZ was ahead if it's time. TAF serves its purpose well.

    exactly

    #61 2 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    90s code was 90s code for a reason.

    The code is sooooo deeeeeepppp.
    Much like a pool with a deep end, you spend most of your time in the shallow end holding a beverage and relaxing because that's where the best time is to be had.

    #62 2 years ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    The code is sooooo deeeeeepppp.
    Much like a pool with a deep end, you spend most of your time in the shallow end holding a beverage and relaxing because that's where the best time is to be had.

    Hah! That’s a great analogy. I always second guessed not getting a deep end on mine until I noticed that everyone chills in the shallow half of my bro-in laws pool. I also swim in the shallow end of the code with a beer in hand and enjoy myself. TZ is still an absolute marvel after all these years and is a top 5 game for me. Had a nice one and sold it like a dumbass.

    -4
    #63 2 years ago

    What about WOZ being #34?! WTF?! If it wasn't for JJP and WOZ, we'd all still be looking at DMDs, incandescent lighting and 1 cheesy playfield toy per game. WOZ should be top 5 always.

    15
    #64 2 years ago
    Quoted from d0n:

    What about WOZ being #34?! WTF?! If it wasn't for JJP and WOZ, we'd all still be looking at DMDs, incandescent lighting and 1 cheesy playfield toy per game. WOZ should be top 5 always.

    WOZ is a turd. A piece of pretty furniture masquerading as a pinball machine. It shouldn’t be in the top 200. The only things Huckster Jack ever did for the hobby was to create the preorder deposit pandemic and teach Gary that he could charge more money. WOZ belongs nowhere near a conversation about TZ and TAF.

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Today's modern noob looks at production numbers and doesn't realize what a disaster TZ was when it came out....

    Clening out Vid's closet these days?

    Just too true

    #66 2 years ago

    TAF in my opinion. I grew up playing it when I was a kid. Can’t remember playing TZ much but I’m sure I did at a restaurant or arcade or something. Thought TAF was fun but didn’t realize how interesting it is until I was older and had more machines to compare it to. The shots in the game are really interesting. I like TZ ok but the I don’t like the shots as much.

    #67 2 years ago

    Both classic games and of course both have similar traits (naturally since Pat Lawlor designed both). Both are great games-you can't go wrong with either IMO.

    I fully agree TZ has more going on than TAF with rules, gizmos and special features, but still, thematically I prefer TAF. I love the callouts and campiness of the game. (I also prefer normal width games, except for PARAGON). I've owned my TAF for over 20 years. I cannot count how many times I've Toured the Mansion, but I always enjoy the 50MIL callout and the start of multiball.

    I still enjoy trying to max out the Bear Kick Ramp or Maxing out the Graveyard value (took me a while to figure out what that Graveyard value was-not exactly a tournament strategy) and other little goals in the game.

    Below was one of one of the funnest moments I managed to capture

    IT Bonus (resized).jpgIT Bonus (resized).jpg
    #68 2 years ago

    Scandalous how they spelled Cousin Itt's name incorrectly! So disrespectful to the hairy little bugger!

    -9
    #69 2 years ago
    Quoted from gambit3113:

    WOZ is a turd. A piece of pretty furniture masquerading as a pinball machine. It shouldn’t be in the top 200. The only things Huckster Jack ever did for the hobby was to create the preorder deposit pandemic and teach Gary that he could charge more money. WOZ belongs nowhere near a conversation about TZ and TAF.

    You dont own WOZ or TZ. Not sure how you base your opinion? Looks like you've never even owned a JJP game.

    #70 2 years ago

    TZ is the best classic modern game by far. I want an Addams but I just laugh at the new absurd prices. Buy a TZ.

    11
    #71 2 years ago
    Quoted from d0n:

    You dont own WOZ or TZ. Not sure how you base your opinion? Looks like you've never even owned a JJP game.
    STFU Karen.

    A fine, hand crafted, artisan retort if I ever saw one. Touché, sir.

    #72 2 years ago

    Don hop is always such a Ray of sunshine.

    #73 2 years ago
    Quoted from gambit3113:

    A fine, hand crafted, artisan retort if I ever saw one. Touché, sir.

    Even though you're right! I got tired of looking at mine and having no desire to turn it on. Never had so much as a pang of regret for selling it.

    #74 2 years ago
    Quoted from d0n:

    What about WOZ being #34?! WTF?! If it wasn't for JJP and WOZ, we'd all still be looking at DMDs, incandescent lighting and 1 cheesy playfield toy per game. WOZ should be top 5 always.

    So what you're saying is, that without WOZ, we may not have experienced rainbow puke LEDs in games?

    #75 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I always knew my TZ was missing something and finally I have the answer:
    Integrated topper!

    Without the integrated topper there just isn’t enough in the game .

    Quoted from Purdue:

    Both Stern and fresh B/W flippers feel great to me. Stern's a hair snappier I agree.

    Correct. They are different but both exceptional.

    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I really wish the powerball was utilized just a little more. The second it's given to the player, the game wants it back. Why not let the player do a little more with it? I always thought there should be another qualification shot to re-light the gumball machine to lock it back up to before starting powerball mania.
    I do think it's super clever how the game doubles a jackpot made with the powerball, since it can't be caught by the left spiral helper.

    The powerball is utilized as much as you want it to be. It’s a great risk/reward situation. I love starting the spiral mode then powerball. Then whipping the powerball around the loop to collect multiball spiral awards because the magnet does not stop the powerball.

    Quoted from gambit3113:

    WOZ is a turd. A piece of pretty furniture masquerading as a pinball machine. It shouldn’t be in the top 200. The only things Huckster Jack ever did for the hobby was to create the preorder deposit pandemic and teach Gary that he could charge more money. WOZ belongs nowhere near a conversation about TZ and TAF.

    Yep. I sold my TZ to buy Woz back in 2013. What a huge mistake. Woz is just awful for so many reasons. And those JJP flippers are the worst ever conceived. I preferred the flippers on my 1947 Humpty Dumpty. And they were six 2 inch flippers controlled by two small coils if I remember correctly. It’s ridiculous that JJP hasn’t figured out a decent flipper system in this day and age. Their games are unplayable on location.

    -1
    #76 2 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    We all know what happens when you tell Pat Lawlor "Hey Pat, do whatever you want."[quoted image]

    Did we ever find out who was responsible for this mess? The “artist” that came up with this “hero” in mom jeans should never work in the industry again. Who is the creative director at JJP that let this happen? Dialed in had absolutely no Soul to it. Has anybody ever got excited or amped up playing dialed in? JJP just doesn’t get it.

    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    Have had my TZ about 20 years.
    Still haven't made it to LITZ.

    You might want to take up a new hobby.
    E97FD2B0-E14B-49B8-AC30-769CF79D54D3 (resized).jpegE97FD2B0-E14B-49B8-AC30-769CF79D54D3 (resized).jpeg

    #77 2 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    So what you're saying is, that without WOZ, we may not have experienced rainbow puke LEDs in games?

    Pretty much yes. When you decide to come into the 2020's by buying a newer game that comes with RGB LEDs, you might understand. Given your current 3 game "collection" (all from 30 years ago), I see why you don't get WOZ or its lighting.

    #78 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Did we ever find out who was responsible for this mess? The “artist” that came up with this “hero” in mom jeans should never work in the industry again. Who is the creative director at JJP that let this happen? Dialed in had absolutely no Soul to it. Has anybody ever got excited or amped up playing dialed in? JJP just doesn’t get it.

    You might want to take up a new hobby.
    [quoted image]

    Yeah but... you could play it on your phone whilst standing in front of it! A thing nobody ever wanted to do! And it took your picture... again, something nobody ever wanted their pinball game to be able to do.

    LOL Agreed. dialed in was an ahead of it's time game that nobody wanted.

    #79 2 years ago
    Quoted from d0n:

    Pretty much yes. When you decide to come into the 2020's by buying a newer game that comes with RGB LEDs, you might understand. Given your current 3 game "collection" (all from 30 years ago), I see why you don't get WOZ or its lighting.

    This all seems very personal at this point.

    Are you suggesting that we need to own a game before we judge it as a turd? If so, I completely disagree! I realized Rescue 911 and Gilligan’s Island were both turds the very first time I played both of them, over 25 years ago… I don’t need to own them or play them at the Oasis to know that….

    #80 2 years ago

    Most of us have been playing them for 30 years. We are burned out on them. Plus they cant compete with some of the new fresh stuff that has been blkwing our balls off , like iron maiden and godzilla.

    #81 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Did we ever find out who was responsible for this mess? The “artist” that came up with this “hero” in mom jeans should never work in the industry again. Who is the creative director at JJP that let this happen? Dialed in had absolutely no Soul to it. Has anybody ever got excited or amped up playing dialed in? JJP just doesn’t get it.

    You might want to take up a new hobby.
    [quoted image]

    Glad this narrative still exists because it’s keeping the price down. Do you hate on GNR too?

    #82 2 years ago
    Quoted from d0n:

    What about WOZ being #34?! WTF?! If it wasn't for JJP and WOZ, we'd all still be looking at DMDs, incandescent lighting and 1 cheesy playfield toy per game. WOZ should be top 5 always.

    except you left out fact its not fun.

    #83 2 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    This all seems very personal at this point.
    Are you suggesting that we need to own a game before we judge it as a turd? If so, I completely disagree! I realized Rescue 911 and Gilligan’s Island were both turds the very first time I played both of them, over 25 years ago… I don’t need to own them or play them at the Oasis to know that….

    I find it interesting that most people who think R911 is a bad game have only played them without a working helicopter, or they have never made it to Life Force Mode or anything... Is it an easy game... to a point yes (some of the shots are easy)... But that does not make it bad?

    #84 2 years ago

    The natural order of progress is that everything gets better, as we use knowledge and experience to learn and improve. So naturally, pinball is going to get better. TZ and TAF made today would have upgraded audio, an LCD, improved lighting, better reliability, deeper rules....etc. etc.

    These 2 classics are good, but they can be so much better.... as I've proven with my ULTIMATE Pro modern-day upgrades to both games.

    #85 2 years ago

    I enjoy TZ more than WOZ but find WOZ prettier and technologically impressive. TZ is also impressive in it’s own given the limitations of the early 90s.

    What makes TZ stand out vs. WOZ is that its features are more accessible and not ultra difficult like some in WOZ.

    I can get to LITZ but I don’t think I’ll *EVER* be able to complete “No Place Like Home”.

    This isn’t a fun challenge, it’s simply frustrating having to shoot so many shots in a very limited time just to save a ball that was lost to an outlane aka “bad luck”. It’s got several of these quirks that make it less fun, in my opinion.

    Toto on the other hand is a bit too easy. Feels unbalanced.

    #86 2 years ago
    Quoted from holminone:

    Glad this narrative still exists because it’s keeping the price down. Do you hate on GNR too?

    The narrative still exists because it’s true. Dialed in has some good shots, but feels like a game on Valium. GnR suffers from the same problem as all JJP games do. Lousy feeling flippers that don’t hold up on location. Besides that, just way too much time is spent in one multiball mode or another.

    #87 2 years ago

    How many times are we going to have to suffer the sentiment that JJP is dazzlingly pretty and just a joy to look at? Buy a Warhol if you want art. It’ll take up less room. Why burn a spot for a pin with a machine that isn’t fun to play?

    #88 2 years ago
    Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

    The natural order of progress is that everything gets better, as we use knowledge and experience to learn and improve. So naturally, pinball is going to get better. TZ and TAF made today would have upgraded audio, an LCD, improved lighting, better reliability, deeper rules....etc. etc.
    These 2 classics are good, but they can be so much better.... as I've proven with my ULTIMATE Pro modern-day upgrades to both games.

    The thing is, not everyone wants super deep rules, LCD screens, "improved lightning" including flooding the playfield with way to much colored lights, etc etc. Progress is not always better. TZ is perfect as it is.

    The 90s games hit a sweetspot to me; fun but not too complicated. The newer games are just a shitload of lights and rules so deep I'll never see more than 40% of them and they doesn't have that mood that I'm after. I rather have a DMD than LCD for example.

    #89 2 years ago
    Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

    The 90s games hit a sweetspot to me

    Same here.

    To add, pinball playing isn’t just about “me” either. It’s about playing with others. When playing with friends and family, trying to explain the rules on a modern Stern game is crazy. I even struggle sometimes.

    The more my collection matures, the more I value fast, simple, easy to understand rules. Games I can share with my casually playing friends and we all understand the rules enough to be able to make calculated shots in the game.

    #90 2 years ago
    Quoted from gambit3113:

    How many times are we going to have to suffer the sentiment that JJP is dazzlingly pretty and just a joy to look at? Buy a Warhol if you want art. It’ll take up less room. Why burn a spot for a pin with a machine that isn’t fun to play?

    exactly. JJP's moto should be.... Looks great. that's all we need!

    #91 2 years ago

    Here's my TZ with no LEDs except for the ones in the new clock and the external pinstadium style strips. No mods except for the gumballs maybe?

    IMG_20220216_110403 (resized).jpgIMG_20220216_110403 (resized).jpgIMG_20220216_110430 (resized).jpgIMG_20220216_110430 (resized).jpg

    #92 2 years ago

    Here’s mine.

    Freshly swapped playfield, all incandescent bulbs and flashers. New cabinet decals, and backglass. Only mods are gum balls, added flashers under the “gum” and “ball” inserts, and of course, the coup de grâce: the elusive 3rd magnet.

    492ED941-AFA6-4C79-834C-95D4E2CD6CD8.jpeg492ED941-AFA6-4C79-834C-95D4E2CD6CD8.jpeg4AD241FC-873D-4C4B-A0A0-9E906443BCF9.jpeg4AD241FC-873D-4C4B-A0A0-9E906443BCF9.jpeg
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