(Topic ID: 112786)

So what features should an LE have that a Pro doesn't

By MK6PIN

9 years ago


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  • 38 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by erak
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    Topic poll

    “What should differentiate an " LE" vs " PRO"”

    • identical gameplay, added bling ( which can be added to a PRO later) 4 votes
      5%
    • identical gameplay, added bling and artwork ( which is unobtanium for a PRO) 45 votes
      62%
    • extra gameplay features, art, and bling ( unobtanium for a PRO) justifying higher price 19 votes
      26%
    • extra gameplay features, bling on an LE, but could be added at a later date for $$$$ 5 votes
      7%
    • Game/ title specific 0 votes

    (73 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

    #1 9 years ago

    Seems there is passion on several fronts on this one, so I added a poll for Pinsider opinions.

    For reference sake- I own a WOZECLE # 771 ....strictly cosmetic differences and wood apron. Love the machine ( play it pretty much every night)....

    Have a TRONLE # 212.....modded out, and has cosmetic, as well as gameplay differences. Love it too ( and an every night thrashing on that one).

    I understand some don't like the LE model at all, and everything should be very " cookie cutter" please explain why, as I don't get that.

    So.....I enjoy them both for what they are, but took a different " LE" approach. I don't understand why some are adamant that there should be no feature enhancements on an LE vs PRO, as wouldn't that qualify as " limited" as well. Auto makers and other unique toys do it all the time.

    Shouldn't this be the decision of the machine designer, then the customer decides whether or not it's worth the additional cost? Opinions and votes, please....just curious...thanks...mark

    #2 9 years ago

    For me it's simple: extra features bifurcate the code. That creates more work for the design team, and allows less ideas that are "big" to happen, because they don't work across all the machines.

    I prefer the JJP model of LE. Or how Stern used to do it, with the Black Spider-Man. Mirrored backglass, unique art, that kind of thing.

    Please don't take off spinners and drop targets. Don't change the game. Make one cool game, make it great, skip the Premium that seems so iffy anyways, and make the LE just the sweetest looking version.

    I don't see it happening unfortunately, I think Stern's model is what it is because they try and keep the Pro's cheaper. It's easier for JJP to do it because frankly they have no "Pro" model, just Premium and LEs.

    Edit: I voted for the add it later first option, because maybe Heighway can show that works.

    #3 9 years ago

    two words.... coin mechs.

    #4 9 years ago

    Two more words, completed code.

    #5 9 years ago

    IMO if there are features removed, they should be able to be added later to a pro. Except artwork and backglass. Those should be LE specific.

    #6 9 years ago

    Cabinet Artwork - Make it the most bad-ass version (think Metallica LE)
    Mirrored Backglass - Make it the most bad-ass version (think Metallica LE)
    Upgraded Armor - Chrome or powdercoated, lasercut rails, etc. (think STLE)
    Signed Playfield, Numbered Plaque, and Certificate - Obviously

    Then throw in some other extras like a shaker, topper, metal apron, service rails, and other bling like extra figures or models that don't affect the gameplay.

    #7 9 years ago

    well I'm too poor to be paying either NIB Pro or LE, but IMHO:

    LE shouldn't at any cost have any gameplay improvement over PRO. If that is the case, clearly PRO would be the inferior product gameplay wise and reduce the brand image as well as game image in eyes of customers. It's not like 5999 USD is peanuts compared to 7999 USD. However, LE should offer many things that make it better machine to a limited number of more wealthy customers wishing for premium product.

    LE should have:
    - different artwork
    - different topper
    - different armor powdering
    - shaker motor
    - better sound system
    - blinged out toys for looking only, not taking part in gaming experience
    - mirrored backglass
    - customised plaques
    - artist and designer and crew signatures
    - better custom lighting
    - extended guarantee
    - limited number of units and a valid promise no other units with these features will be rerun in the future
    - invisiglass
    - color DMD
    - possibly plated ramps and wireforms
    - goodie bags with extra plastics, LEDs, and stuff for free
    - coupon for 2% or 5% of purchase discount with next LE edition

    #8 9 years ago

    All manufacturers used to make full-featured games. Then they learned they could charge more for a "Limited Edition" with cosmetic enhancements. Then they discovered they extort even more cash by taking out components of the "normal, full feature" game and charge exorbitant prices to put back in what should have been there from release date.

    It is an absurd market driven by absurd ideals.

    Sad.

    #9 9 years ago

    Interesting results so far....pretty much 2-1 for exclusive Art/ Bling vs exclusive gameplay features, but both still way in front of being able to " mod" a Pro into an LE......wonder if the title plays into it?

    Example- I don't know if I really like BSM over the red one, but for AC/DC, it would have to be BIBLE or nothing...

    #10 9 years ago

    Another related question ( if anybody listening) are there other LE games besides TRON that have differences in gameplay vs a Pro? I haven't played that many games ( except almost all of Buddy's....got to get back over there soon)

    #11 9 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Please don't take off spinners and drop targets. Don't change the game. Make one cool game

    +1

    #12 9 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Another related question ( if anybody listening) are there other LE games besides TRON that have differences in gameplay vs a Pro? I haven't played that many games ( except almost all of Buddy's....got to get back over there soon)

    Transformers has upper playfields, ACDC has the lower playfield and bell, Avengers and X-Men divert balls differently with the moving bridges, things like spinners and drop targets are absent on pros. Sometimes people argue the Pros play faster because of fewer toys and more stand-up targets but in almost all cases to me they just feel like gimped versions of the real game which is the premium/LE.

    #13 9 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Transformers has upper playfields, ACDC has the lower playfield and bell, Avengers and X-Men divert balls differently with the moving bridges, things like spinners and drop targets are absent on pros. Sometimes people argue the Pros play faster because of fewer toys and more stand-up targets but in almost all cases to me they just feel like gimped versions of the real game which is the premium/LE.

    I knew that AC/DC has the "premium" w lower playfield, but in essence plays identical to an LE, correct?

    Seems the "premium" thing confuses me most....all the features of an "LE" except artwork, which is proprietary....then there's Luci, AND LTBR....so this title has 5 viable production models? Whew ....confusing......this has to be the best selling stern ever, if you combine all the models. But guessing this would not work on all titles....

    Could be that the theme would dictate the pro/ LE differences that would work?...geesh, I'm confused now....

    #14 9 years ago

    a centerflank signed apron and maybe a plaque

    #15 9 years ago

    ACDC has drop targets, a lower playfield, the swinging bell (you can add a swinging bell to the PRO but its still not the same) Color Changing leds (doesnt change gameplay but does a better job of letting the player know which mode/what to shoot for) All of the other changes are just cosmetic as far as I know

    #16 9 years ago

    Speaking of which, how many fakes you suppose, sold to people not knowing what to look for in the game, to tell them apart?

    #17 9 years ago

    Extra features and toys....but to that Spinners are not a toy Stern - spend $100 bucks and put them on pro.

    #18 9 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    For me it's simple: extra features bifurcate the code. That creates more work for the design team, and allows less ideas that are "big" to happen, because they don't work across all the machines.
    I prefer the JJP model of LE. Or how Stern used to do it, with the Black Spider-Man. Mirrored backglass, unique art, that kind of thing.
    Please don't take off spinners and drop targets. Don't change the game. Make one cool game, make it great, skip the Premium that seems so iffy anyways, and make the LE just the sweetest looking version.

    Agree 100%. Because under all the bling and modding madness, it's really all about how the game *plays*.

    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    All manufacturers used to make full-featured games. Then they learned they could charge more for a "Limited Edition" with cosmetic enhancements. Then *STERN* discovered they extort even more cash by taking out components of the "normal, full feature" game and charge exorbitant prices to put back in what should have been there from release date.
    It is an absurd market driven by absurd ideals.
    Sad.

    fixed.

    #19 9 years ago
    Quoted from StevenP:

    Agree 100%. Because under all the bling and modding madness, it's really all about how the game *plays*.

    fixed.

    So, an LE shouldn't have extra play features, even if the pro ( standard) is a great player ( guess an automotive analogy inappropriate )? I just go back and forth on this....very happy w both my LE's ( have standard machines which I also play the crap out of), but 2 different approaches, and can't honestly say either one is " wrong".....IDK.....

    #20 9 years ago

    I agree w Aurich ( again...2 posts in a row...dangerous ) that I think artwork is a differential, and can easily stand on its own to justify an LE price tag....WOZ fits this perfectly ( cleared cabinet art is just sick, period). That's not just bling to be purchased aftermarket.....

    #21 9 years ago

    BUT...I played a bone stock TRON ( @ Disneyworld ) and didn't like it at all.....a modded version would be a fairer comparison, I suspect, but have never played one of those.....

    #22 9 years ago

    IMHO, the only difference should be the art package.
    As others have stated less code work, less engineering other toys etc.

    LE's-
    Mirrored backglass
    Powdercoat
    Inside side decals
    Shaker motor
    Topper
    Limited edition plaque
    Signed playfield

    Pro
    Should just be the same game
    Without everything listed above.

    #23 9 years ago

    And LE should have code for the extra features that are on it... ***COUGH COUGH STAR TREK LE COUGH COUGH***

    #24 9 years ago

    Like Aurich said, the more expensive model should come with a bifurcate code. Is that something that can easily be added to a stripped down model?

    #25 9 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Like Aurich said, the more expensive model should come with a bifurcate code. Is that something that can easily be added to a stripped down model?

    I think what he meant was that different models DO bifurcate the code and that that is not good.

    #26 9 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Like Aurich said, the more expensive model should come with a bifurcate code. Is that something that can easily be added to a stripped down model?

    But doesn't the extra gameplay features ( code) also qualify a game to be limited? Have to go to the Auto analogy, sorry:

    A limited edition vette can have sick trim options ( artwork), but there are also limited editions that have sick technology ( gameplay,code) . If someone wants to pony up, why would either be wrong...still a vette?

    Still back to my original point (thought) title and manufacturer would dictate one of my choices above, and consumer would ultimately decide if the extra coin got them what they wanted for an LE game. But is either approach really " wrong"? I just can't answer that, because I have living versions of both that prove their points in spades....

    #27 9 years ago

    I chose none of the above. I like the Pro, Premium LE format the way it is. As long as they make all three I am happy. Leave out the Premium and I will be mad. I also like having mods that are above and beyond what would be on an LE (like a topper). For some people enough is just never enough.

    #28 9 years ago

    And wouldn't the bifurcate code dictate a need/ justification for certain gameplay element changes? I might be confused on interpretation of this.....

    #29 9 years ago

    OK,
    Here's my take on it. There should be two models. A stripped down one and one loaded with features. And a limited supply of add ons that will fit either model. But make them pricy enough so that not many people buy them.
    There's your LE folks!

    My opinion is the more models they make, the higher the build cost of each one, and the more each customer has to pay.

    #30 9 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    I chose none of the above. I like the Pro, Premium LE format the way it is. As long as they make all three I am happy. Leave out the Premium and I will be mad. I also like having mods that are above and beyond what would be on an LE (like a topper). For some people enough is just never enough.

    I meant to add that to the poll...will do that now.....thanks for the reminder....

    #31 9 years ago

    The LE should at least have a Fish Tank topper and shaker motor.......hint , hint. Are you listening Stern?

    #32 9 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    OK,
    Here's my take on it. There should be two models. A stripped down one and one loaded with features. And a limited supply of add ons that will fit either model. But make them pricy enough so that not many people buy them.
    There's your LE folks!
    My opinion is the more models they make, the higher the build cost of each one, and the more each customer has to pay.

    I think if your " loaded with features" includes custom artwork, that's my winner....

    #33 9 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    I think if your " loaded with features" includes custom artwork, that's my winner....

    That and a few more playfield features.
    The add ons can be things like custom backglass, toppers, trim, etc. You always hear how people want to mix and match these parts. Well theres your answer!

    #34 9 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    I chose none of the above. I like the Pro, Premium LE format the way it is. As long as they make all three I am happy. Leave out the Premium and I will be mad. I also like having mods that are above and beyond what would be on an LE (like a topper). For some people enough is just never enough.

    Well, can I add another topic poll at this point or not? Damn if I can figure out how to do it....

    #35 9 years ago

    Identical playfield and toys = easier, better, quality programming with a much faster, much needed turn around. So that's what I vote for.

    #36 9 years ago

    Looks like a clear cut winner ( just under 3) looks like the WOZECLE took the preferred choice. Standard is gorgeous , but the LE is just in a league of its own, art/ finish wise....I prefer it to the 75th red, actually........

    #37 9 years ago

    Seems the Title should say , " What Should the Pro have that the LE Has "

    I say Stern should include the Spinner's on the Pro p/f's , 4 instance like on TWDLE .

    #38 9 years ago
    Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:

    Seems the Title should say , " What Should the Pro have that the LE Has "
    I say Stern should include the Spinner's on the Pro p/f , 4 instance like on TWDLE .

    Dont worry that will be on the vault edition in 2-4 years along with a different art package.

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