Every dimension is "flat" to the one above it. A 2-d square is flat to us 3-d creatures. We'd be flat to 4-d creatures. 4-d creatures would be flat to 5-d creatures.....and so on. Turtles all the way down!

Meanwhile here on Earth:

93451234-F8AA-4A2E-9345-885C5F667A22 (resized).png

If they are trying to teach it is too slow for me... perhaps us.

With all the cell cams out there nowadays, by now we'd have videos of ghosts driving ufos if they existed.

Yeah...don't even go there. The ghosts are all at my house. My place is so haunted, Dr. Oz did a segment on it, and an investigative team refused to come back after 6 hours at our place. So anyone that says ghosts don't exist simply haven't experienced paranormal activity.

And there are tons more UFO footage nowadays because of all the cell phones...multiple views from different angles in broad daylight in cities, no less. Some pretty compelling stuff. I'd love to see a UFO, but haven't. Doesn't mean they don't exist just because I haven't experienced it.

I'm amazed they haven't picked you up yet and released you later.

LTG : )

Dude! You've seen me, for God's sake. I LOOK like a freakin' alien. Could've already happened...

Most. And if they're us, then they're not UFOs.

I agree with most of this.

To think were being told and shown technology only 20 years old is ludicrous. To believe we stopped going to the moon just because is also ridiculous. Breakaway society? No doubt in my mind.

Hmm, seems like if the money trail were to be followed there might be some discoveries about what some of the USA's "black budget" military projects constitute.

Dr. Oz did a segment on your house?

I’d like to see that.

I don't publicize it because (as I just told 27dnast in a PM) it pisses me off when ignorant people call us crazy. Plus, we left the taping a little disappointed because we weren't even allowed to talk about the most mind-blowing experiences we've had in the house. It came off a little tame. (And lame.)

But when you've had people experience multiple things with different senses (one sees it, and one hears it, for instance), or people see the episode and THEN tell you, "You know...there was something that happened to me in your house, but I didn't want to alarm you...", it becomes tough to pass it off as mass hysteria. And we really do our best to debunk everything that happens in our house because I am cautiously skeptical.

That said, we haven't had anything happen for almost 18 months since the ghost investigation team left in November 2019--until this week, that is. So...I guess we weren't crazy for a while???

But back to UFOs, everybody!!!

We had weird stuff happen fairly regularly at our old shop.

Mostly lights turning on, we'd come in the mornings and the main lights would be on. Or they'd be on when we came back from lunch. Sometimes lights would shut off when we were in other room.

Had the clock fall off the wall a few times, I still have it even though it no longer works. Frame is all cracked from the falls.

Came in one morning and Attack from Mars was on. That pissed me off, waste of electricity. Sometimes we'd hear things, like the front door opening or voices. One time I was sitting there soldering, and our metal box fan emits a "brrring!" sound like someone scraped their fingernails across the metal grates. Fan wasn't running. By then I was like "whatever"

We'd also sometimes find things on the floor, like binders fallen off a shelf or a power strip fallen off its mounting hooks.

So yeah, nobody believes it until they experience it and it's more annoying than scary.

I fully understand and would love to hear all of details. I am going to started a thread on the separate ghost topic.

I think there is one already.

There are both man made ufos by military institutions and ufos from a much older civilization that live in underground cities and watch over humanity

Check out The Cryptoterrestrials
by Mac Tonnies good stuff!

Another goodie on Amazon Prime: Walking with the Tall Whites

I used to believe in UFOs till I read about Fermi’s paradox

It is possible that the unique nature of our moon greatly helped with life on Earth. Still, the universe is too vast for that to not have happened, statistically, elsewhere.

To wit: The Drake Equation...

pasted_image (resized).png

The moon is crazy coincidence, on so many levels, that it borders on direct placement (manufactured, if you will).

Our moon is certainly unique, at least in our own solar system. The running theory is that it's the coalesced debris from an inter-planetary collision. This explains the tidal lock (why we only see one side) and why it's the largest moon (compared to its planet) by a long shot. Venus is roughly our same size 0 moons, Mars is smaller with 2 moons that are glorified asteroids.

This video shows the barycenter orbit of Earth and moon. Barycenter is the center point of gravitational mass between two objects in space.

Note how the Earth and Moon almost act like a binary planetary system (much like Pluto and Charon)

A moon collision could have been responsible for "spinning up" our molten core, which Venus and Mars lack. This creates an EMF that protects us from solar radiation (which is going to be an issue on Mars Elon!)

In addition even the tides could have contributed to life. Maybe a fish shores up enough time, and it like "screw it, I'm growing legs!" If events like these are required for evolved life then Earth could be rarer than we think.

Important to think about how rare an inter-planetary collision could be. Most of space is empty. Even our own asteroid belt is empty enough that NASA doesn't even bother aiming probes, they just say "screw it" because the chance of a craft-asteroid (random) collision is so remote.

Fermi is correct. Where are they?

I wouldn't be surprised if all highly intelligent life eventually destroys itself (if not its planet, as well).

As civilizations advance, there's a critical stage where escalating overpopulation and highly developed technology due to the species' "success" intersects with conflict and BOOM! It's all over.

We've been living in this critical stage since Nagasaki and Hiroshima and capabilities for destruction just get higher and higher.

The Human Race is a poster child for almost certain destruction. I can't see, collectively, how we embody those traits that might allow us to escape this critical stage and advance to the next.

The more people you have (we should probably have 2 billion on the Earth and we are approaching 8 billion)...the more technology you've got...the chances for some crazy leader somewhere to end it all just gets higher and higher.

For example, what if somebody discovers a way to have a localized explosion of some kind ignite or otherwise destroy the Earth's entire atmosphere? This technology isn't out of the question, and it would only take a single human being with this capability and some kind of political or religious agenda...to destroy the entire planet.

Or all-out nuclear war? etc. etc.

It's likely this level of destruction of a planet/advanced civilization has happened many times in the Universe. 1,000 times already? 1 million times? 1 billion times? Who knows? I think they say there are as many suns in the Universe as there are grains of sand on the Earth.

I'm sure just about everything has happened out there, somewhere...yet we see no clear evidence of the existence of another highly-developed civilization?

Yes, the real nail in the coffin as summed up by his famous declaration at the lunch table is the lack of even the smallest shred of evidence. I wish it wasn’t so convincing

When you say "suns" do you mean stars where someone is there to call it their sun? Otherwise that's off by four orders of magnitude. (But if one in every 10,000 stars harbors intelligent life, that's a lot, too!)

Someone with nothing better to do once estimated 7.5 x 10^18 grains of sand on the Earth.

Our galaxy has something like 10^11 to 10^12 stars, and there are something like 10^11 to 10^12 galaxies, so ballpark estimate of total stars is between 10^22 to 10^24. Someone else tried to nail it down, and came up with approximately 7x10^22, or 70 thousand million million million.

Unbelievably huge number, right? But you will find the same number of molecules in about 10 drops of water!

I'm really no expert and talking out of my hat, but I would guess that **IF** we can survive the next 300 years as a species, we have a shot to get to the next level. Successfully travel between planetary systems in a somewhat timely fashion, advance the human experience side of things (longer, healthier lives, more meaning to life and less human suffering).

It may look differently superficially, but IMO we're only one step above the Middle Ages. We have complex stuff going on, technology-wise, but we haven't developed enough as a species. User Error, planetary abuse and Human Psychology are dooming us.

If we want to survive, we should be focusing on education and culture. Instead, as a world-wide culture, we're obsessed with violence and discord. This, as a species. Go to South America; Europe; Africa; Russia; China.... everybody is obsessed with power and domination.

We're nowhere near any kind of satisfying planetary travel. The next 100 years, we'll send people to camp out and die on Mars. Maybe other planets and moons, too. It'll be entertaining, but ultimately meaningless compared to the dramas we're going to unleash upon our own planet. How could we terraform another planet like Mars when we can't even clean up the Earth: a planet that is throbbing with the conditions and cycles that continue to provide an arena for life to survive, despite our rigorous efforts to compromise the environment?

IMO, as far as aliens are concerned, SF shows (SW, ST) that show alien races interacting are a bit rich.

They would certainly have zero interest in destroying us.

What would our planet look like to that rare alien race that has survived to the next level? Keep in mind the Universe could be 14 Billion years old. Think of the advances in technology we've had in the past *20 years* .... let alone 10,000 years or 50,000 years.

The differences in technology between two advanced civilizations that interact would be immense. Any civilization that survives the filter of self-destruction would certainly not be interested in violence of any kind; that would have been beaten out of them.

If there was an alien race and they were interested in ushering us into the next Phase...they would have presented themselves to us, by now. As per Fermi.

They would have nothing to lose. Why wouldn't they just come out and say "here we are: we're here to advise and help you and warn you". And Humans would undoubtedly have a kind of rustic appeal to them. Our languages; cultures; cuisine; architecture; artistic achievements...would be appealing to them. And they would care about us and be saddened by the great inequities and human suffering on our Earth.

Why wouldn't they help? They would gain much and lose nothing because they would be WAY MORE advanced than us and we would pose a zero threat to them with their massively advanced technologies.

Simple answer: they aren't there.

Believe me: I wish they were!

Why would they care? Do they have human like emotions? Perhaps in their super advanced world they’ve grown past petty emotions like sadness, empathy and anger. Perhaps they would look at us as nothing more that a resource worth harvesting.

My thoughts exactly...BTW this video sums up PERFECTLY what I have been telling my wife about that show...Kept me laughing for twenty minutes straight with no drugs needed..

I take the Star Trek theory of non interference. I would guess that just obtaining our history to take back would be incredible. I know that if we found an earth 2 we would go nuts comparing our history to theirs.

Exactly, You can shoot a rocket straight up into space and it can go on forever - there is no end, space is infinite
With that kind of space, odds are there are other life forms somewhere out there now or at one point in the past qazillion billion years+.

Now are they within reachable distances, the odds are a lot slimmer on that one

A more interesting question is, in the history of any of these alien societies - did they ever create a pinball like machine?

The recent commercial airline pilot who reported a circular object that flew directly over the plane has no explanation and was confirmed as a UFO I believe. Meaning of course it was unidentifiable.

Totally buzzed by the craft.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2021/02/24/american-airlines-pilot-reports-ufo-flight-to-phoenix/6805563002/

I saw a u f o, filmed it and it was the jet pack guy in Los Angeles. True story.

This is inaccurate by a factor of whatever a qazillion/14 is.

If 14 billion sounds like too low a number for ya, convert it to seconds: 4.4x10^17 or 440 million billion seconds.

You assume they could help us advance. We are to them what monkeys are to us. If aliens magically appeared we would destroy ourselves for sure. Aliens would have to choose which government wins. Doesn't make sense for them to help us at all.

We are also assuming they even care to travel in space to visit other cultures. Maybe they don't care, maybe they are afraid of exposing their own civilization, maybe they can observe without being observed. Maybe they are already here, guiding humanity (to succeed, or to fail).

You're both right. Anyone read "The Mote In God's Eye"? In the book humans discovered another species, and they deem them dangerous because of their birth rate and eventual population explosion....except the moties sound like us.

Some photos that have been deemed authentic from the Pentagon yesterday:
https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/new-uap-photographs/

And some video:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/politics/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-defense-department/index.html
https://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-filmed-pyramid-ufos

I'm a bit skeptical of the video, it looks like a regular strobe sequence from an airplane or jet. It's triangle shape could have been caused by the shape of the shutter on the infrared sight that was used.

The photos kind of look like baloons, but apparently they were stationary even in high winds

Ok, haven't read it but I will give it a shot - I did notice we are off the timeline just a little bit - interstellar travel was suppose to be possible in 2008 in the book

Lol..yeah. it's considered one of the best Sci-Fi novels ever...ymmv.

"The Mote In God's Eye" is a great novel. I've read it several times over the years. I liked the sequel, "The Gripping Hand" too.

If you like Niven and Pournelle, they teamed up with Steven Barnes for the equally great "Legacy of Heorot." It deals with mankind's early attempt at interstellar colonization.

As Robert Klein would often remark, "oooooooo-WEEEEEE-oooooo!" Probably still does say that.

web 900 x 600 Robert Klein 01 (resized).jpg

Here's what caught my eye: CNN Business

Why is this in the business section???