(Topic ID: 71413)

So now that Star Trek is not living up to sales, will Stern Stall on Code?


By Pinball-Wiz

5 years ago



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-22
#1 5 years ago

I had this conversation last night while playing some pinball with other pinheads, and a few came to the conclusion that Star Trek Sales have not been all that good, and this means that Stern will not push the resources to progress the code as is could/should be pushed to perfection. Since the $ numbers aren't there, a couple of the guys said they'll do a few "touch-ups" and they will move on to the next title. This also takes into account that Lyman, who appears to take more personal pride in code, is not on this project.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, just opening this up for intelligent discussion on what people think about this. I really hadn't thought of Star Trek like that, quite frankly.

Personally, I thought of AC/DC which I didn't care for in early code stages, but the later code made me want the game and I do believe the sales were a reward for the investment that Stern (or Lyman, depending on how you look at it) put into perfecting the game, and Star Trek has the same potential (minus Lyman).

#2 5 years ago

How did they come to the conclusion it wasnt selling well? They are all over here on route

#3 5 years ago

Just curious how do we even know what the sales of Star Trek are?

-3
#4 5 years ago

But wait.... There is a power pack coming.

#5 5 years ago

Don't know much about ST, but I can tell you I had no interest in ACDC the first time I played it. After the code updates, though, I played again and bought one. But for the code updates, Stern would have lost a sale. Stern needs to realize that code updates do indeed sell pins.

#6 5 years ago

My distributor said ST was selling big time.

-1
#7 5 years ago

I presume it hasn't sold as well as Metallica since I've haven't gotten a PR blast about it like I did last time. Other than that I don't see how we're at all informed about sales.

#8 5 years ago

The pros have only been shipping a few weeks now and the LEs and premiums arent out yet, correct? How do you know its not performing? I love the STLE, looks awesome.

#9 5 years ago

Code updates may win sales in Huo owners but not in the market they are targeting. Gary made it clear there main market is location and how many operators are going to bother with code updates?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

and a few came to the conclusion that Star Trek Sales have not been all that good, and this means that Stern will not push the resources to progress the code as is could/should be pushed to perfection.

Total speculation. I also think its been slow since you can get them everywhere. But TF even got some love in the end. ACDC took a year to really take off so there is plenty of time. Using that model ST could ramp up slowly and turn in to just as big a hit so for now its in their best interest to make it awesome.
I would worry more about a sold out game and them moving on.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

and a few came to the conclusion that Star Trek Sales have not been all that good

based on what?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

Code updates may win sales in Huo owners but not in the market they are targeting. Gary made it clear there main market is location and how many operators are going to bother with code updates?

If this is the case, and I do agree OP don't care about the code, than I hope Stern sees a huge drop off in home sales.

#13 5 years ago

Sounds like the ST is selling well.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

and a few came to the conclusion that Star Trek Sales have not been all that good

What is it based on? Solid info? A hunch?

My distributor has none left as far as i know. For a total of 45 or 50 LE's for Belgium, Holland and i think also Germany. Could be wrong with the country's. Will check next time i see him. Kuch, LE, kuch.

#15 5 years ago

It's only the LEs that are moving slow, and slow is a relative term. Remember the Acdc metallica LE sell out mess? At the time that was considered obscene... Now unless the LE's sell out in .001 seconds it's considered poor sales?

As far as I can see the pros are selling as well as any typical Stern

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

Code updates may win sales in Huo owners but not in the market they are targeting. Gary made it clear there main market is location and how many operators are going to bother with code updates?

All the ops that I know, including myself, do very timely code updates. Sometimes same or next day code comes out, always within a week of the code release.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

All the ops that I know, including myself, do very timely code updates. Sometimes same or next day code comes out, always within a week of the code release.

Us "hobby ops" are a rare breed, though,

And maybe Portland, Seattle, and the Bay Area.

The big boys in my region, if they even have pinball at all anymore, don't care about updates. They don't even keep their games clean, for the most part.

500,000 Mystery on a BDK with filthy playfield rules the routes.

-Mark

#18 5 years ago

Where did you pick up the sales report from I don't believe it I'm sure ST is selling just fine seems to be a great flowing game and a lot of people are impressed even me not a star trek fan I enjoyed it.

14
#19 5 years ago

Star Trek+ Steve Ritchie= pinball awesomeness.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from marcos:

Us "hobby ops" are a rare breed, though,
And maybe Portland, Seattle, and the Bay Area.
The big boys in my region, if they even have pinball at all anymore, don't care about updates. They don't even keep their games clean, for the most part.
500,000 Mystery on a BDK with filthy playfield rules the routes.
-Mark

Agreed about the "hobby ops", though I was talking about a shift in traditional ops here in parts of St Louis. Just last week, I heard that Star Trek was selling well to ops that haven't bought pins in quite some time. I think it really helps that our local brick and mortar distributor, Shaffer's, is bullish on pins again, and helping ops understand the best way to be successful with them. Big thanks to Rich Grant for that.

-3
#21 5 years ago

Dont really know what they could do to make ST better. Game is pretty lame when compared to Met. Awards do not make much sense animations are weak. Yep think this one is not a good seller. To top it off not a lot code will do for it.

#22 5 years ago

from the videos I've seen, the code seems more complete than recent titles they've released. can you get to the stated wizard mode on the playfield? yes? well it's further along then Metallica.

#23 5 years ago

I played st for the first time yesterday. It's an awesome game (and I'm not a fan of the theme). This game will sell. Probably the most fun I've had on a stern machine. I really like tspp, haven't played lotr, but this was more fun then ac/cd, tron, xmen, avatar, ironman, Metallica.

This is a great game. The same location has a woz; the only other modern game that I've enjoyed as much

#24 5 years ago

Stern won't release sales numbers because "its a private company and we don't want people doing the math and......(as voice trails off)

Makes sense to me

#25 5 years ago

Don't know about sales but I bought a pro today. My first NIB and only Stern. In my opinion it is better than any other Stern produced regardless of code. And I'm not a huge fan of the theme. I was sold entirely on gameplay and the sound package. Which seems may only get better.

#26 5 years ago

Well I played the LE last night and now I'm planning to buy one.
How's that for stats?

#27 5 years ago

Star Trek Pro seems like a definite success. It should also be a great route game... "easy to play, hard to master" as Gary says... satisfying shots for any newb.

the last sort of "bomb" was avengers, and we could tell that game was in trouble early on. the fixes and such the owners took care of was too much to save it.

#28 5 years ago

Me and my mates are here and thinked about it, and all of them, not a few, came to the conclusion this topic sucks.

#29 5 years ago

I'm not a huge Star Trek fan, but I really like the game. Played the LE at Orlando today and it's also pretty good

#30 5 years ago

Pre-sales of LE and add Pro sales (assuming 500) have surpassed IM right out of the shoot.
Prem sales will kick in as Pro owners love it enough to sell and upgrade and those waiting on the fence fall into the buy spree. Yes I do believe one more update will show those that doubt SR will be convinced.

I do believe there are a lot of would be owners waiting on code or the LE to show what it "could" become.
I also believe there will be a second wave of purchases after Christmas. Some people feel guilty about spending so much on a toy for themselves prior to Chirstmas....all bets are off come tax return time lol.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

the last sort of "bomb" was Avengers, and we could tell that game was in trouble early on. the fixes and such the owners took care of was too much to save it.

I believe Avengers was a "build bomb" more than a bomb of a game.
I really like it but the build quality just made you scratch your head and say what was Gomez thinking.
Seemed like he was great with the art work on both PF and Cab (Hulk) but the actual game build design was a "bomb".
Bad outlanes- poor placement of Loki - No lock lit insert - Ball hang (s) even the shooter was not right and to cap it off - build the ramps from plastics ....what the crap was that? Look at Metallica -ACDC or even ST Pro then look at Avengers...man what a mess.
Avengers code wise should be the model of a min-code launch IMO.

BTW looking for an Avengers PRO miss it lol...rant off.

#32 5 years ago

I'm hearing the exact opposite...sales are strong, cancelled orders or going back and buying in again. This info is coming from Stern distributors. Few delays getting the LE's right before shipping, cool with that. Premiums will follow and likely another code update when it does. I'm personally anticipating a big update for MET and will give thanks to Stern and the developers much praise when they do. SR will want to see this pin finish strong...I don't doubt him or is crew. Still have my LE on order and anticipating Pinball Restoration to pimp it out.

#33 5 years ago

I wouldn't be making sales predictions based on the comments of a few pinheads.

The LEs will sell out to the distributors, if they haven't already done so. The key to whether ST will be a success is how the Pro model sells. (I'll bet that the Vengence/Premium model will sell fewer games than the LEs for two reasons - not enough differences in gameplay and most people would take the blue LE over the red Premium).

I also think it is way to early to know if ST is a sales "failure". Let's see what dealer stock is in February or March before trying to come to a conclusion.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Me and my mates are here and thinked about it, and all of them, not a few, came to the conclusion this topic sucks.

-4
#35 5 years ago
Quoted from HOOKED:

I believe Avengers was a "build bomb" more than a bomb of a game.
I really like it but the build quality just made you scratch your head and say what was Gomez thinking.
Seemed like he was great with the art work on both PF and Cab (Hulk) but the actual game build design was a "bomb".
Bad outlanes- poor placement of Loki - No lock lit insert - Ball hang (s) even the shooter was not right and to cap it off - build the ramps from plastics ....what the crap was that? Look at Metallica -ACDC or even ST Pro then look at Avengers...man what a mess.
Avengers code wise should be the model of a min-code launch IMO.
BTW looking for an Avengers PRO miss it lol...rant off.

ST Pro is a very fun but doesn't hold a candle to AVLE. ST is much brighter though, I'll give it that.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

Code updates may win sales in Huo owners but not in the market they are targeting. Gary made it clear there main market is location and how many operators are going to bother with code updates?

The LE are all targeted to home users and they know it. That's 800 minimum in this run.

#37 5 years ago

My distributor here in Vancouver, had two people looking for LE and he says he can't get them, and is looking south to see if he can find some. So the Canadian allotment seems to have sold out.

#38 5 years ago

I'm guessing your distributor in Vancouver is linked to the one here in Toronto cause when I called to put one on hold today, I was told that supply was pretty much gone.
I do really think that once people see this machine, the LEs will be gone.
I'm not saying they're good value for the money, but it's reallllly prettttty!!!

#39 5 years ago

Does make you wonder tho, what is stopping them from running more if needed. they could run a set of numbers that they know are in Europe or Australia and say sell them in Canada. So there could be two number 55 for example. The odds in finding the matching unit is pretty much nil.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from silverball0:

Does make you wonder tho, what is stopping them from running more if needed. they could run a set of numbers that they know are in Europe or Australia and say sell them in Canada. So there could be two number 55 for example. The odds in finding the matching unit is pretty much nil.

Cause it's f-r-a-u-d.
If they really wanted to go nuts, they'd just announce that they're making some insane amount, like say, 800!

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

If they really wanted to go nuts, they'd just announce that they're making some insane amount, like say, 800!

#42 5 years ago

my LE arrives this week.
like a photon torpedo, fastest machine I've ever played.
reminded me of Spiderman, but what do i know.

#43 5 years ago

Yes it is, just tossing out how there is really no checks and balances in any manufacturing process, if demand dictates they just make another run! Worked for the franklin mint and all the crap they have produced over the years!! Just call it limited until the sales slow down,LOL. I really wonder if they are running 800 and selling 799 and Steve Ritchie is taking the last one. Just such an odd number to produce?

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

Code updates may win sales in Huo owners but not in the market they are targeting. Gary made it clear there main market is location and how many operators are going to bother with code updates?

To be clear though, Gary knows his market right now is primarily collectors. He is trying to get ops to put games on location because he knows that is the key to increased sales.

To the original point, most ops don't clean up black playfields and fix weak flippers, so I agree they're not going to update code either. Making a business decision to not finish off code because of this is, well, nothing short of asinine, so I can't believe that's what Stern is thinking. Like any manufacturing company they focus on building games, more so than maintenance of older ones... so honestly if people need code updates they really have to communicate with Stern and its distributors directly.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Cause it's f-r-a-u-d.
If they really wanted to go nuts, they'd just announce that they're making some insane amount, like say, 800!

or they could make another 1500 after with red side rails and call it the "there's no place like space" edition?

ooohhhh snap

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from HOOKED:

I believe Avengers was a "build bomb" more than a bomb of a game.

I meant "sales bomb". I own a hulk le, I love it, but they hobbled themselves out of the gate it cost them hundreds of thousands of lost sales. For such a big license (probably the biggest movie license of all recent titles) it could have been a mega hit.

My point still is though, we can see ST taking off out of the gate in comparison and will be a big success.

#48 5 years ago

I love how the op makes a post to start a flame war, but then never responds to anyone else........geez....

#49 5 years ago

Hmmm... Just herd Canada may be sold out of the LE. Guess sales must be really tanking

#50 5 years ago

I played a Pro and while fun, did not convince me to buy especially a theme I was really looking forward to. Dots were disappointing and playfield artwork just didn't work for me. Sounds were cool. Maybe code update will fix much but right now I'm sitting on outside looking in. LE lighting looks cool, but not enough for me right now. I don't buy XMas trees because of the lighting.

That being said, I heard LEs were selling great. Even when on pinside people started doubting early on, I heard from a few disti's that LE's were nearly all sold out. I think the title is selling great on SR name alone, theme, and reported light show. The Pro was fun but at this point not same level as AC/DC. At this point.

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