Nope. 400

Glad they did. If there were only 150 I wouldn't have one.

Logic fail. Fact fail.

lol

well then there should be more than enough to go around. Why you guys go ape shit for that game is beyond me. 400 is a good LE number. Only difference is cosmetic differences. anyway. Not that different from the pro.

Regardless. it' would be stupid of sterns to rely on the freak situation like Tron did. 98% of the time, once a game comes out, NIB loses money and sales drop. Very rarely will a game shoot up being that new. Usually it takes about 7-10 years before price starts to go up, if it even will. The LE system is good for sterns, because it gets you guys to buy games before you ever play them. Many buy LE's just because it's an LE. Don't care if it's a piece of shit game or not. Only start caring when the game starts losing $1000's in value.

"I get 11 points for the word quagmire"

People forget half left the country. It was 150 or 200 in the US for most rumors

False

I think you need to stop now since you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Difference between Tron LE and pro go beyond cosmetics.

oh wait, that's right there was one difference that interacts with the actual ball. if the disc spins or not...was that. Whoopie. sounds like 4k to me. Drop targets vs standups isn't really a huge differnce unless your busting them down and revealing a new area of the game. Wait a min, the disc spins on both, so that's not it.

Keep trying. It might come to you.

the differences are mostly cosmetic regardless. Pro doesn't play any different than LE. Different light show. Big deal. It's not like AC/DC where the premium completely changed the dynamics of the playfield by making the Bell shot divert to the back of the ramp instead of down the middle. or TF where you have top ramp diverter on one side and rocker playfield on the other. Or Magnets removed on IM pro vs premium. It's all light show for Tron. Moving ship. Great, looks better when they did it on Stargate. Doesn't effect the ball at all.

Trons differences are barely different than Spiderman and spiderman black. if you count a little bit of a code tweek as justified..it's not. Nobody would give shit whether it was in there or not.

Seriously??? There is a totally different multiball in the game.

still not a playfield dynamics change. The whole point of this discussion was sterns shooting themselves in the foot, by limiting the very rare chance that LE's actually go up in value, and stopping themselves from making more. Yet the Pro they can make as many as they want. It's not a huge upset for Tron buyers to buy pro over LE, because the playfield dynamics play pretty much the same. With the very small difference of the ball hitting standups over drops. yes there are different light shows...yes there is a little toy flying around that does nothing. yes you get little added code tweeks. But overall play. they are the same. i've played both. They played the same. One was just prettier than the other.

Lonnie is fine, and he and Lyman have already done a lot of pins together. The issue is the 3rd Stern pin of the year... something has to be done to avoid another XM fiasco. Sticking Borg with Waison again would be bad. Just keep in mind that Lopp was the one that was tasked with guiding Waison, and you see how that turned out, so I say give that job to Lyman, and there you go, Lyman has involvement in every game, more (Waison) or less (Ropp), and now all software has some QC by the best rules guy.

"Your pinball machine has sh-t in it? Ew, gross."
-Billy Madison

well it would have a Tron playfield in it...so I guess in a matter of speaking it would. YEA!!! ZING!.....boo yea!

They can't sell the LE's, and the used Hulks are not very hot... so why even make a premium if you were Stern?

Dude! You weren't supposed to help him!

Exactly. I don't see a Premium Avengers happening.

Same here . . . and I really want to jump in on one of these AC/DC runs . . . but I'm just not going to do it till they give me good code on XMen.

Pop bumpers!!!

crickets

Just dump the Xmen & pick up a ACDC premium.

But at least its not a Fan layout!

Never; XMen is a dream theme for me and the game has too much going for it. My favorite shot layout I can remember; great art package; wonderful original dots; great music; good magnet use; basically it is everything I want in a pinball machine . . . I just want the rules to be polished.

.... and at least its not Miss World.

A Metallica pin can never succeed. The Metallica fan base is splintered unlike the AC/DC fan base.

Metallica was ground-breaking as the most original metal act of 1983. They pumped out 3 flawless albums, the bass player died in 1986, and they lost their heavy sound when "And Justice for All" came out in 1988. The "first-three album" fans gave up on them with this mediocre release, and then in 1991, Metallica sealed the deal when came out with an entirely new style -- a slower mellow vocal-driven sound, that is the beginning of the consistent decline we've come to know for the last 25 years.

So the problem with Metallica, is you have old school fans that have no respect for their last 25 years of work, and fans from the last 25 years that are ok with their radio-friendly pop rock style. If the pin represents them in 1983, I will be very excited about this pin. If it's about representing them in 2013, it would never appeal to me.

In contrast, AC/DC has had the same sound for nearly forty years, even when they lost their lead singer. There is no splintered fan base. While they are not my style of music (Back in Black was pretty bad ass), I have more respect for them as a band for their consistent sound.

Which leads me to point #2...

Why can't designers just come up with original ideas again like Whirlwind, Diner and Taxi? What is the thinking behind "ONLY licensed established themes will sell?" Asteroids, Donkey Kong, and PacMan were not licensed themes, they were once original creative ideas.

Y'all can keep clinging to your licensed-theme stop-n-go DMD machines, I'll stick to my original-creative-concept system 11 games !

;p

thanks!
MOF

That is true. I have to give it props for that. Tron isn't a horrible game. But it isn't the godliness some claim either. Some locations and angles feel very clunky. The smoothest shot in the whole game is that upper right ramp. Rest feels off slightly. Similar to Xmens feel. Angles just arn't dialed in correctly. Tron feels like funhouse, but doesn't play anywhere near as good.

Ya,you'll show them..?

Doubt Avengers Premium will get made. Too many other choices and people still saving up for ACDC premium.

If Lyman were equated to a tub of butter being spread on one loaf of bread, I get the feeling Stern are going to try and spread over multiple loaves now

They can't sell the LE's on many machines becose the price point is retarded high IMO.

metallica & Lyman...me happy

I seriously doubt it's like that. These guys are friends. Most them have worked together for years. If Lyman was in charge of rules, I doubt it would mean that he goes to his desk, types up the rules then says "here, get to it". Lyman is a game player. There would probably be some group collaboration on rules and the designer would likely have some ideas since he designed the game. Im sure seceral software guys would participate as well as a couple others. Then those rules would get implemented. Then Lyman would want to play the game and enjoy it. By playing it, this is when the rules go from just ok to great. No matter how good the programmer, its this step that counts. Lyman's best games are ones he owns and plays himself tweaking them as he plays them.

Hell ya!! I'm glad I got a pre-order for a LE!!

This is a great discussion point, but as Zuse once said, "The game has changed." There is a much different dynamic now then back in the 80s heyday of arcade gaming. I wish we could get some original and inspiring themes along with great gameplay, but money talks. Themed games are already established and recognizable -- if a casual player has enough money for one game, will he plunk his quarters into IJ4 or a game based on dragons or boobs or something?

Unfortunately, I think we'll see only themed games from major companies for the foreseeable future, especially when the business model is so tenuous.

Considering their splintering brought in more fans than if they stayed the course, I'd argue a pin would sell better because of that fact.

Metallica will sell huge. Watch and see. I'm down for an le for sure.

Don't let Eggbert see this!! He'll try and convince you his Hulk is worth $8K while your X-men is worth $5K. But of course that's since he's sitting on a NIB.

Very True! Like or Hate Hulk/Avengers LE, the price is retarded for what you get.

Stern should drop their prices a couple thousand, sell tons of machines and just slay jjp.

I would like to see an original theme pin every year very much by Stern or at least every other year. I am waiting for the creativity to come out.

Then people would complain that they don't like the theme. "Original" is still a theme subjective to taste.

Exactly. If it's magic theme, some would complain we don't need another magic themed game, or card theme, or sports or astroglide theme......ect. Doesn't matter what anyone does, your not going to please us all not matter what you do. Even some of the greatest pinball machines to ever exist are not liked by all. Lucky for all of us we have around 4000 different machines to choose from, so there's something for everyone.

Based on the constant cries of "ORIGINAL! ORIGINAL!", I'm still surprised there hasn't been a skyrocketing demand for late 80's, early 90's Gottliebs...they're ALL original themes! Bonebusters, Class of 1812, Lights Camera Action, etc...or even Al G's Garage Band Goes On A World Tour...they're ALL original, and relatively scarce. Why aren't they big money games?

They don't have "Bally" or "Williams" written on them.

A Stern original theme would still say "Stern" on it...

Bonebusters and class of 1812 are pretty awesome games too. But there is no way in hell this group or RGP is really going to give gottliebs a chance (saying majority, not all). Gottliebs flippers are completely different than anyone else. It's a hard change to get used to, which will turn many off right from the start.

Truth.

Disgruntled, bitter old-school Metallica fans like me who were basically told to go F*** off in 1991 with the release of their first of many to come easy-listening Bob Rock albums, are no different than someone that had his house torn to shreds by a tornado, and doesn't want to play an original-themed "Whirlwind." or movie-themed "Twister".

(is this mic on?) Mr. Lyman, PLEASE base this pinball around their 1983 release of Kill 'em All. It's their best album... Thanks !!! xD

I recall reading that Gary indicated one of the reasons for staying with licensed themes is the international market which accounts for half their business. That original unlicensed themed machines did not sell well in that market.

Jack said the same thing. Specifically he said international distributors would commit to a full shipment of a licensed pin because of the known title, but with an original theme they would only order a few to see how they would go, so from a business perspective he felt he was forced to stick with licensed titles.

Because they all suck

Someone needs to go to PAPA and play these games then. They most certainly do NOT suck.

Class of 1812 is fun!