Christ, I hope not. I'll be hard out on that after playing Jurassic Park.

WTH is Welk? Guess I'll have to consider that since there's very little chance I'm going to lay out the money for an Elwin game after seeing IM and JP.....granted, I like IM *way* more than JP, but....yeah. Bro sure does like things on a playfield that piss me off.

Shots through pops? Check.
Narrow ramps that are extremely steep? Check.
Clunky shots that brick into nothing and can STDM or fall right on a sling on a perfectly intentional made shot? Check.
Fast orbits into a flipper that's a sucker shot to the left outlane if you don't time it perfectly and/or don't flip? Check.

Yeah, you were right to delete that garbage. We can disagree about games and what we personally like without being a prick about it.

And yeah, I was thinking Lawrence Welk too, but.... what in the name of cryptic codenames could that actually BE. They're obviously not going to do a Lawrence Welk pin lol.

Haha, all good man.

I honestly was wondering if JP was rushed, to tell the truth. And yeah...the car shot, neat as it is, is clunk-heaven on location. The multitude of failed shots up the T-rex ramp is bothersome, and again.....on-location play doesn't seem to have been taken into account. The ball slinging around the inner orbit and just going STDM if you don't flip it was entirely intentional also, but with the added punishment of the STTNG-style left outlane drain if you're even a little bit late. I fully expect that was FOR on-location play, as it kills games faster because if I'm missing those shots (it wasn't so bad this last week...I'm getting used to it..) then I know the average player is probably 1-for-5 or worse on it.

To be fair, I didn't even realize AIQ was his game. I'm just now getting back into leagues and whatnot, and if I don't have money, I'm not looking real deep into who designed what game these days. That said, I haven't had a chance to play Infinity Quest just yet, but I do know there's one here on location in Dallas. I'll see if I can make an effort to go play it and see how I feel about it. Like I stated earlier...it's far too early to condemn his design theories.....I'm just vehemently against ME personally spending 6-9k on one of his games based on what I've seen. If I did....it would definitely be Iron Maiden.

I just wanted to point out how much you nailed this.

You sure were right, there was another game to choose from....Ultraman. I love Godzilla, but my faith in this being a game I want to buy (and we won't even discuss how unlikely it is that I'd be able to get an LE since I don't have any "ins" with distros and am not willing to put a deposit down before the game's even been announced..) versus Ultraman, which was instantly something I wanted to buy... nah, I'm good. I'll play it when it hits a location locally.

I'm in for a Bloodsucker Ultraman, yes.

No doubt there are. All about who you've done business with and how many boots you want to lick.

I think the point here is that it's one of those "If you have the right contacts, you can pretty much reserve anything you want at any time." Do I have those contacts? Hell no. I've only ever bought 3 NIB....4 if you count Ultraman. This is not new, at all, so I don't know why anyone's expecting me to provide concrete information. Contact the distros yourself and try to see if they'll take a deposit even though the game hasn't been announced. What Stern "allows" and what actually happens are not the same thing. None of the people that are holding these slots early are going to speak up about it, because they'd be shooting their distro in the foot, and lose the chance to keep doing it.

If you think people out there aren't doing this to some extent...I've got a bridge to sell you.

Trade ya plays on Ultraman for plays on Godzilla.

Not a single middleman distro of anything on this planet pays MSRP. MSRP is price for customers. Distributors pay less than that....sometimes substantially less (though I don't believe it's a ton less in the case of pinball. Distro margins are......not great on pinball, to the best of my understanding.).

I really have to agree here, and we don't agree on much apparently. If the market is going to pay it anyways, I'd rather it go to the distros than flipper scumbags to fund their next game.

I hope it's not something like the JP dino....but it's really hard to predict what goes through Stern's collective mind at this point, if you ask me. I really don't know what they could do at this point that would impress me. It's really hard to picture them doing something crazy enough. The theme will sell games regardless.

Yeah well we've heard all that before, and it gets dumped before release, or changed frequently. Remember all the rumors about a "holographic" projector for the glass on Star Trek, and then it was just a laser pointer with a kaleidoscope filter?

I was really holding out hope for an Infinity Gauntlet game where the balls would lock in the gauntlet. I'm kind of grateful in a way they didn't do it, because I have an interesting idea for it that I'd love to get to at some point. But yeah......hybridizing the spinner from TOTAN and putting it on a CV mech... meh. The big toy of Infinity Gauntlet was not the big bad, or even the crux around which the entire story revolves. That's a fail to me, theme-wise.

I hope for the buyers that it's cool as hell, whatever it is. I'll look forward to playing it regardless of what they stick on there because it's Godzilla, but it would take an AWFUL lot for me to ditch Ultraman at this point to get a GZ....and even then I expect that the LEs will be locked down before I'd want to make that decision (as they were with Star Trek), and the prices will be bonkers.

I'm not sure that the best price reference to use is a seller asking 45 bucks for Crocodile Dundee 1+2 on Blu Ray is a good yardstick....

Honestly I don't even REMEMBER that it's been so long ago. I do remember being one of the few people that at least sorta-liked the wiggle playfield...that was a neat mechanic but I can see why they never did it again. It's very difficult to hit the right cadence on that thing to really benefit from it, and the pro does flow better. For me code was the worst part of TF, but I still liked it a lot for league play.

Peak Ropp.

Or buy a topper and immediately sell it for a few grand, apparently.

Stern has never done a price increase that low in their entire history since I've been involved in pinball....at least a decade. Even Tron Pro went from 4200 to 4600-4800 when they did the 3rd run and added literally nothing other than a translite and better printing for the decals. There's no way it's only 200.

I'm about 10 years into the hobby and have yet to own a "LE" or a "CE". AC/DC premium was the most I'd paid for a game up to my Ultraman preorder.

Don't have the time to comb through 8 year old + threads but does it really matter? The prices are batsh---. Nobody cares about "MSRP". That's not what we pay, and if what we pay goes up the same amount as the MSRP, that's all that matters.

Avatar wasn't a miss, it's a greatly underappreciated game with one of the best multiball stacks in pinball. It's just that nobody wanted Avatar as a theme. Had it been something else, it would've done fine.

Funny, so was I, so that I wouldn't be bummed I was going to miss out on this.

LE's? They're going to make LE's for years? WOOHOO!

*edit* Because you know I'm not paying some knob-slobbing asshat 16K for one.

Looks like the pro has been boned on this one... don't get me wrong, it still looks like a fun shooter, but man..... that's a LOT of ball-interactive stuff stripped off.

So what's on the LE then? Powder trim and mirrored backglass and....that's it? lol.

So....jack sh--t then. I mean, assuming the art package is to one's liking, it's not a.....terrible increase... I suppose for the upgraded stuff (and especially not having to install it yourself lol), but if money is tight all that can be added later. 2500 isn't a great value for that stuff if you're handy.

If they shimmed the underside with metal, shouldn't really be an issue. Plastic ramps have been around forever, and hold up just fine. Biggest risk is getting bonked by that magnet throwing balls around.

Star Trek LE.

Speakers - 300
Invisiglass - 500
Art Blades - 200
Powder trim - 150 (This is a stretch by a bit, but it can be done. It's not like Stern is doing any fancy double/triple shot powders)
Shaker - 150
Backglass - 350

So....IMO, 1650. Question is, is the backglass and THOSE SPECIFIC blades and cabinet art worth it, and saving the hassle of installing it yourself. Everything else could be done later. Not that it matters, because good luck getting one.

I haven't bought Invisiglass or speakers in 7 years. Does that answer your question? So you're saying it's even less of a value proposition. Good to know. Thanks.

It's on Stern's site.

Hey, don't you go disparaging my Voltron vectorizations!

And we just killed your server. LOL.

Bruh....really? That's. Not. Godzilla. /facepalm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minilla

Welcome to my life. ;P

Yeah...I'm not sure they've stripped down a pro this badly since AC/DC....

You guys are crazy. Gary even says in his letter to the distros that it's stripped down, lol.

Welp....after getting absolutely raped on Jurassic Park at league night again last night, my excitement for this game is way down. I said before when I found out Keith was doing this game that I was likely not a buyer because of how much I *hate* JP, and clearly not going to league for a few weeks had me forgetting about that.

I will not buy this game, or even pretend that I'm a future buyer, before playing the premium or an LE. Period. And I'm completely ashamed I let it go to my head. I really like IM and AIQ....but JP is just......no. That game should be a constant reminder to me that Keith is not infalliable, and not every design can do well in a public location, or at home.

(Don't even f'ing talk to me about your games at home. I don't give a single turd. We all know games at home play far superior to almost any location game.)

Hopefully it plays more AIQ and less JP, but at this point, I've lowered my expectations.

The software is fine. It's the physical layout I have a beef with. It's just personal preference. I felt the same way about Walking Dead, and Houdini. A tight shot or two is good. Every bloody shot on the playfield being a rejecty mess is not. JP3 has a Houdini level issue in this regard, so I have no clue why Houdini gets so much shit, but JP3 gets a pass just because it's Elwin, and pinballers are kiss-asses for their celebrities.

Maybe it is....in a home environment where it's set up perfectly, leveled, and with flippers that are perfectly aligned........ Which is not what I was talking about, and quite clear on that. I've never played a non-routed JP. I can only form an opinion based on my personal experience....which is with a game in a heavily played arcade.

I'm always open to changing my opinion if I get to play one that is set up correctly and I find it's massively different. Nothing is going to fix that stupid ass truck not being able to reset itself from blocking the smart missile shot, though. There's been a bazillion Sterns released over the last decade that haven't had these issues even with subpar maintenance. Tron, GOTG, Star Wars (Pro ONLY...the LE was godawful on location), BKSKOR, Stranger Things....same company has all those games on locations and they don't have the issues that I've seen on JP. They also have Hobbit, Monster Bash, STTNG, TOM.... Hobbit and STTNG have their own issues, but at the end of the day.....the shots are MAKEABLE and do not reject even 25% of the time. Polar opposite of my experience with JP's left ramp, right orbit, and the under-flipper turnback shot on the right.

Keith very much underestimated the lengths I'm willing to go to in order to use a free jackpot button.

I will absolutely use my chin, or a knee, to keep that thing pressed down if needed. :p

Oh, I've got that too, but it's more amusing when I headbutt the button on Star Wars for league matches.

lol that video...

"What would you pay?"

"I'm just pulling a number out of a hat, but I'd say about 2000 dollars....but I'm hearing they're a lot more than that"

"Uhhhhhhh....yeah"

I mean....that's just being a total buffoon. You could look at the screen and size of the machine and intuit that it's going to cost more than that. You can't even buy a shit graphics card for 300 bucks. Total idiocy.

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Who?

sales numbers.