(Topic ID: 66176)

So is the pin market turning? And does it predict the economy?

By bladerunner

10 years ago


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  • 198 posts
  • 80 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by maddog14
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    There are 198 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    I know I'd buy 5 games right now if values halved overnight.

    me too...

    #152 10 years ago

    Meanwhile, the soap opera continues.
    th-2.jpegth-2.jpeg

    #153 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    I honestly think prices are about the same as last year at this time. If prices are a tad lower, it's no by a significant amount, maybe 10% less, if at all. I welcome a price drop but doubt a huge price drop will occur because it will start a buying frenzy. I know I'd buy 5 games right now if values halved overnight.

    Exactly what I think as well.

    So it must be true.

    #154 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    I know I'd buy 5 games right now if values halved overnight.

    I call shenanigans. You don't have the desire to own 10

    #155 10 years ago

    The big difference i see this year from last is that people are asking monster prices for games right out of the gate. I'm not going to point to any examples by name on here but the asking prices I am seeing is clearly trending upward in my view.

    I don't think many of the games are selling for asking price, but since the final price is not shown or discussed by buyer or seller perhaps future sellers think the game sold at the high price so they ask for even more when they list their game.

    #156 10 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Exactly what I think as well.

    So it must be true.

    Obviously not paying attention to the FS threads, price drops and lack of buyers at almost any price........oh yeah, lower than last year and heading in that downward direction.....

    #157 10 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Obviously not paying attention to the FS threads, price drops and lack of buyers at almost any price........oh yeah, lower than last year and heading in that downward direction.....

    Sorry, don't see it.

    And I have zero reason not to want to see it.

    #158 10 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    lack of buyers at almost any price.......

    You're being ridiculous when you go this extreme to attempt to prove a point.

    I can pretty much assure you that 90% of the pins for sale right now would sell at or 10-15% less than what they were going for last year at this same time. If you think the prices are any lower than that right now, i think you're being disingenuous or ignorant. There are a few titles that aren't selling right now but i suspect that will change if the rumors about the remanufacture of a few of them are disproven in the next few days. I cannot say either way what the status of that is, obviously.

    throw out some titles and i'll give you my honest opinion on where the market is now vs. last year at this same time.

    #159 10 years ago

    The market just turned.

    I could feel it.

    #160 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The market just turned.

    I could feel it.

    No that was not it..wait there it was..wait no that was lunch, maybe in another minute.

    #161 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Stern would have to have some actual competition to buy out.
    One game every 3 years does not make for much competition.....

    As soon as Stern makes a run for JJP or JJP makes a run for Stern or either one makes a run for ILLinois Pinball; Look for the FTC to come in and scrutinize the sale/merger.

    #162 10 years ago

    Me three, well maybe not 5 of them but at least a couple..

    #163 10 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    As soon as Stern makes a run for JJP

    I don't think Stern wants any part of JJP.

    Other that JJP showing Stern how high it could raise prices, one game every 3 years is not exactly something to strive for.

    #164 10 years ago

    I am new PIN blood I just put in my preorder and the THLE and have WOZ plus Sterns Avengers LE on my wish list. I am also looking for Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones, Jurassic park lost world, Jurassic park, X Files, TMNT, Star Wars of any kind and any really fun space themed ones. Of course MS Pacman, Donkey kongs and Marios. I am picking up next month after a 12 hour drive 6 hours one way a couple low end cheapy Pins (Big Game and a Space shuttle one) and the 2 seater Atari sit in Rush the Rock Alcatraz edition for my kids for Christmas. I have to wait till I move in June to our new farm and really get to business purchasesing a pin collection and creating a Arcade room for my 9 kids and myself! I am so excited and as a NEWBIE I am reading everything I can to make wise pin choices! This site is great! Anyways I am looking to buy up some of the slack Any advice on games is appreciated!

    #165 10 years ago

    Welcome to a great hobby and a great group of enthusiasts ManiacMama! As others will also tell you, these things have a strange way of multiplying quickly.

    #166 10 years ago
    Quoted from ManiacMama:

    couple low end cheapy Pins (Big Game and a Space Shuttle one)

    Shuttle is one of the best games of all time.

    #167 10 years ago

    Watch it on the SPace Shuttle cracks, I still can't find one (at a decent price)

    #168 10 years ago

    After I posted, I youtubed game play of the Williams Space Shuttle pin as I have just seen pics and descriptions from the place I am buying it from. I agree!! It is a GREAT game! I had no idea it would sound so 80's! It is perfect to introduce my kids to pins as it not to challenging and very open game play. Big Game has the double flippers so they will enjoy that as well. Next on the list is the 90's lol

    #169 10 years ago

    I honestly think I am overpaying for these games but I do want them. He is asking $6,000 for all 3. Is that to high?

    #170 10 years ago
    Quoted from ManiacMama:

    I honestly think I am overpaying for these games but I do want them. He is asking $6,000 for all 3. Is that to high?

    Highest I've seen a Shuttle is $2600, but you can find them well under $1000 if the playfield shot.

    Condition better be great on those games.

    #171 10 years ago
    Quoted from ManiacMama:

    I honestly think I am overpaying for these games but I do want them. He is asking $6,000 for all 3. Is that to high?

    Yes.

    -2
    #172 10 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Sorry, don't see it.

    And I have zero reason not to want to see it.

    I think you do....in any case look a little harder.... The examples are everywhere, every day, at all levels, not hard to see, you need another 6 pack of pins anyhow

    Quoted from davewtf:

    I can pretty much assure you that 90% of the pins for sale right now would sell at or 10-15% less than what they were going for last year at this same time. If you think the prices are any lower than that right now, i think you're being disingenuous or ignorant.

    You can "assure" me? I don't really care either way, but the "at" part is either "ignorant" or "disingenuous", the 10-15% less is a given and heading south most likely and more in some cases and then some pins just won't sell at all when sellers hit their "rock bottom prices"......10-15% is not a tad lower, its a "bear market" for sellers following a "bull run"......whatever.....

    I have no agenda either way or "titles" to try and protect, as if I could anyhow.....I don't plan on selling any of my pins except for maybe SM and don't care what it does or doesn't do....

    #173 10 years ago

    See that fork in the road?
    Take it.

    #174 10 years ago

    I think that pricing has leveled off.

    Look, pinball is and always has been a hobby where there is a bit of a limit - space. I don't know of many collectors who pick a type of machine and then want to own every one (although I have a few good friends who have done that, some with H-U-G-E collections) because of the space factor. In general, you hit a limit of what comfortably fits, be it 2 or 4 or 7. Then, you hit another limit because a lot of people getting in especially now have no idea how to maintain their machines, so you don't want to have 10 because you need to have people over working on them constantly, and that costs money.

    Flippers aren't an issue because they are selling generally to a market that wants what they are selling and are willing to sell to them. I have friends who are flippers, and if they are flipping machines for double what I pay for them it doesn't both me or them. They're getting what they need, I get my games cheaper, we're still friends, and it's all cool. I'm not forced to pay double for anything, but I can repair them. Don't want to learn, you can get them from a source where you don't have to.

    The market I think is capping out because so much new stuff is coming out and people are willing to look at those as purchases, and because if the market price is driven higher we'll keep seeing more and more reruns (from Stern and maybe others) because there is enough money in it. There is no reason that you need a game like LOTR to hit $10k when Stern could make another 1000 of them cheaper and could make more money.

    Stern, and the other companies, are the ones that *should* be making the money. If they die, then you might see prices bump up, but I'd expect a crash a few years after that as interest starts to fade. A big part of the experience is the new stuff that you can check out whether you buy it or not, and if you were ONLY stuck with the older stuff, I think that would change people's thinking after a while. Whether you like or hate Stern / JJP / whomever, having something new to talk about with people is far better for the hobby then going over to your buddies house to see the exact same stuff every time for years.

    I'm also cool with the market crashing. Hell, this past year I think I've bought more machines than any other year save maybe 2007 because I keep finding offers of them for really fair prices, most not by people I know. If the market crashes, sure, I'd lose a lot of "paper value" that I don't really consider myself having (since I didn't pay that to begin with), but it would allow me to fund future purchases cheaper. I think one of my driving factors in making at least some of these purchases was figuring that it might be hard to find machines at the same prices. I'd slow down, but still acquire more... which would be awesome. Probably get to add a big room onto the house a lot easier to house them in

    #175 10 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    the 10-15% less is a given

    no it's not. name some games that you think the market has gone this soft on. I will give you afm & mm but beyond those two, i think it's a reach.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    .10-15% is not a tad lower,

    a 10-15 % loss isn't that significant IMHO unless you are looking as this as investment as opposed to a hobby. Can you name any other hobby where ONLY losing that percentage of your intitial investment in gear is that low? Still a good value, if you ask me.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    You can "assure" me?

    yes, i can go to boston pinball's website and verify the trend the next time they release their numbers.

    SORRY ABOUT THE IGNORANT COMMENT!

    #176 10 years ago

    I think people underestimate how much is being sold from the market page versus the market forum. Games are quietly changing hands with nary a word from buyer or seller. Hell, I have spent just south of $20k on two pins and both were within 5-10% of listing price. I am in negotiations for a third game, similar 5-10% off of listing price. If i didnt tell it here no one would have known two pins moved at near asking price. I wouldn't let the market forum be your barometer in judging pin futures. Games are selling and the usual suspects of games are still commanding the dollars they were 6-12 months ago.

    -3
    #177 10 years ago

    Well, I tell you a pin market crash would be fatal to the machines in need of rescue. Why rescue a pin if you can't recoup at least your time for the restore?

    #178 10 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    Why rescue a pin if you can't recoup at least your time for the restore?

    Maybe because you love the game?

    #179 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Highest I've seen a Shuttle is $2600, but you can find them well under $1000 if the playfield shot.
    Condition better be great on those games.

    The site said they are restored. It a business in Vancouver BC. I am going to see the show room in person in a couple weeks so I will decide then. The original price was $7,000 ish and he dropped it to $6,000 because (quote I am getting 3 games) the full price on the Shuttle was $2,995 Canadian. I am a little Leary in general buying used just because I KNOW NOTHING about value or what to look for in a good shape or bad shape....unless it obviously damaged. Right now I am looking for games that we want to play and as I learn about collectables and what games are worth top dollar and why. I got to get out there and start talking to Pin owners and visiting some shops and expos As for the market turning I don't know as a newbie so I will most likely pay asking price as I just don't know better at this point. But I do know that the Pin community has just gained myself and 9 future pinheads

    #180 10 years ago

    Bottom line is that people rarely go outside of their own homes for their entertainment anymore. The home entertainment market is strong in all areas, and the pinball market will continue to grow on that factor.

    #181 10 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Bottom line is that people rarely go outside of their own homes for their entertainment anymore. The home entertainment market is strong in all areas, and the pinball market will continue to grow on that factor.

    I agree. I would much rather have a drink in the comfort of my own home, play some pins, and watch the game - whether it be football, soccer, or baseball. It's much more relaxing, enjoyable, and peaceful.

    #182 10 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Bottom line is that people rarely go outside of their own homes for their entertainment anymore. The home entertainment market is strong in all areas, and the pinball market will continue to grow on that factor.

    You nailed it right on the head! I live very Rural (Farm) and it easier to bring the Entertainment home then to drive 6 hours to nearest Arcade ect.

    #183 10 years ago

    I have to add that the market will continue to grow as long as the next generations are being introduced to Pins and the knowledge to restore them.

    #184 10 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    Well, I tell you a pin market crash would be fatal to the machines in need of rescue. Why rescue a pin if you can't recoup at least your time for the restore?

    yet many of us "rescue" machines on a regular basis that we have NO chance of getting any of our labor costs out of... i'll likely have well over 200 hours into my current project (hey, i'm slow )... i expect to recoup exactly zero of that...

    Quoted from davewtf:

    Maybe because you love the game?

    yup.... or you like doing it... gee... something you like doing... could that possibly be referred to as, umm, a HOBBY...

    too many people look at a pinball machine and the first thing they think is "what is it worth?"... the second thing they think is "how much money can i get for it?"... somewhere down the line they think "would i like to play this?" and "would i enjoy working on it?"...

    people have lost sight of what a "hobby" is really about... it's not a money-making (or even money-recouping) venture...

    #185 10 years ago

    Lol, can you imagine how wealthy we would ALL be if we could get recouped for our time spent fixing and maintaining our games, you just can't be in this hobby and think that's going to happen. You just have to like doing it, it's a hobby.

    #186 10 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    yet many of us "rescue" machines on a regular basis that we have NO chance of getting any of our labor costs out of... i'll likely have well over 200 hours into my current project (hey, i'm slow )... i expect to recoup exactly zero of that...

    yup.... or you like doing it... gee... something you like doing... could that possibly be referred to as, umm, a HOBBY...
    too many people look at a pinball machine and the first thing they think is "what is it worth?"... the second thing they think is "how much money can i get for it?"... somewhere down the line they think "would i like to play this?" and "would i enjoy working on it?"...
    people have lost sight of what a "hobby" is really about... it's not a money-making (or even money-recouping) venture...

    sadly, that is the way a lot of people in the hobby think. That is why a crash would be bad for the unloved machines out there. You can only save so many.

    #187 10 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    sadly, that is the way a lot of people in the hobby think. That is why a crash would be bad for the unloved machines out there. You can only save so many.

    I would buy as many as i could and get them into the hands of people that would want to save them. Space is not an issue for me any longer. I now have room for 10 pins up and working and 20-30 folded up. W00t w00t!

    #188 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    yes, i can go to boston pinball's website and verify the trend the next time they release their numbers.

    SORRY ABOUT THE IGNORANT COMMENT!

    It's all good Dave, I'm just going off of what I see here on Pinside.........maybe I'm wrong Wouldn't be the first time.......and won't be the last.....

    #189 10 years ago
    Quoted from nighttaco:

    Lol, can you imagine how wealthy we would ALL be if we could get recouped for our time spent fixing and maintaining our games, you just can't be in this hobby and think that's going to happen. You just have to like doing it, it's a hobby.

    I must not be like most in this hobby. I HATE any and all pin problems. I do necessary maintenance, but I take no pleasure in it. I'm in it to play. When my pins are down, I get panicky.

    #190 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    throw out some titles and i'll give you my honest opinion on where the market is now vs. last year at this same time.

    RoadShow

    World Cup Soccer

    Flintstones

    Dirty Harry

    #191 10 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    roadshow
    World Cup Soccer
    Flintstones
    Dirty Harry

    Not enough info on DH or Flintstones. I'd say RS and WCS are either the same or up about 200 over last year at this time. Just my personal opinion, here.

    #192 10 years ago

    Well, what I see is geographically close to me rarely a post at all for pins that are worthwhile, when they do show they are ridiculously priced - and not improving. This is a combined look at all the usual suspect for sales: CL, Ebay, Pinside etc...

    The last worthwhile pin at a reasonable price posted on CL last week and I was 10 min late on responding to the post - 9:59 seconds too late probably...and it has been dry ever since.

    #193 10 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    Not enough info on DH or Flintstones. I'd say RS and WCS are either the same or up about 200 over last year at this time. Just my personal opinion, here.

    thx

    3 months later
    #194 10 years ago

    Edited the title of the of this old thread. Old pin prices down, new pin prices up. Stock market down, I think our little hobby may be a pulse on the state of things. Inflation or deflation?

    #195 10 years ago
    Quoted from bladerunner:

    Edited the title of the of this old thread. Old pin prices down, new pin prices up. Stock market down, I think our little hobby may be a pulse on the state of things. Inflation or deflation?

    Stagflation. Stagnation. Pinflation. Pinsaturation. Could be anything....

    #196 10 years ago

    The stock market is not down big yet...but there is a big correction on the way. I hope I'm wrong but yes it will affect the pinball market.

    #197 10 years ago

    Good grief for four years or more these posts, and In the meantime pins have been bought and sold and a crap load of money has been made in the market.

    #198 10 years ago

    The only thing that effects pinball final sale prices are how desperate ( for whatever reason) the seller is to sell and how bad does the buyer want that particular pin.

    I don't care what anything else does, that is the only thing that effects price.

    If you are worried about money than you shouldn't be buying high end toys... Especially hoping they will go up in value.

    There are 198 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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