I didnt want to quote your entire post but honestly I think you are the only one that cares, although your pal Zippee might. You two could have an epic pm with each other and figure out how to fix all our problems and make the pinball world a safer place.

Oops. Fat finger! Thanks.

When Stern does well, the employees on the line DO reap the benefits.

They get more hours actually working on the line making a wage that, to us, may seem low but to them beats the big "zero" they'd earn from a shuttered production line.

Better to have an unskilled labor force in the states making $10/hr than to have an unskilled labor force overseas make $1/hr. We need more manufacturers coming back to the states, which would make the available labor pool be in more demand which would, in turn, drive up wages (just as is happening to some degree in China).

And I'm sure the people in more the more "skilled" positions that require some secondary education DO reap the benefits as well, in the form of merit increases (which generally go to salaried employees - not the regular labor force which constitutes positions on the line).

Others who benefit are people able to get jobs because of the increased production at the facility (both skilled and unskilled), the local economy, and us pinheads.

So, in my view, Stern is doing very well...as is everyone involved.

You GET what you WORK FOR and EARN..... there is no DESERVE.

Unfortunately you are not alone in your flawed thinking... There's growing population of folks (of all races, religions and orientations) who think they should be GIVEN stuff. They have killed much of what made this country great...

You want to see what happens when folks are paid MORE than what they are worth? Take a drive into Detroit. See what unions have done to that city and others in the rust belt...

The super super super rich are not worried. ( They are getting richer all the time ) You are on their side by the sound of it.

lol... I certainly am NOT super rich.

I just refuse to blame others and demand hand-outs.

The only thing standing between me and success is ME.

That's not it....people don't want to be given stuff...but people should have a fair wage that allows them to work 40 hrs a week and be above the poverty line. Wages haven't kept up with inflation and it's destroyed the middle class. Unions = working people = you. Without unions we wouldn't have safe working conditions, safety regulations, child labor laws, weekends, overtime pay, paid vacation, pensions, healthcare, etc. Even non-union jobs benefit from unions as they have to be competitive with the gains unions have brought us. Workers don't want to be rich...they'd be perfectly happy just getting by, paying the rent & buying groceries. Higher wages = people buy stuff = good for the economy.

The earliest possible serial number for acdc is in the 233,300 range. The earliest numbered Mustang (that I'm aware of) is 246098. That's 12,800 games. Best selling "Stern" would be somewhere around 8000. That means that X-Men, Avengers, Metallica, and ST would all combined have to be less than 5000, which seems pretty unlikely to me. I can account for around 750 XM, around 650 Avengers, 1300 Mets, and 1900 STs. Also, at least 150 Trons were built as well. That's 4750 right there, and I don't know about you guys, but some of those totals sound pretty low to me.

I believe previously I put ACDC around 4150. That leaves a float of 3900 games that aren't easily assigned to any particular model based on gaps being too high or evidence of at least a few models being shipped out here and there with just 1 number in the middle of other stuff, etc.

These are just easily-assumable totals based off of ipsnd data.

So, it's in the realm of possibility, but not extremely likely. There is absolutely no doubt it's the best-selling game since the investors came on board, that's for sure.

Man, you can really be a boob sometimes!

As I said earlier in this very thread:

So Iceman5000 confirmed what I said: that Stern doesn't release sales figures, and somehow you equate this to being a bummer for me because there really were no facts?

Very good point Keith, but do you have one of the latest serials for the game prior to ACDC, just to give more cred to the start of the ACDC run?

I really *feel* like the profit is what was meant if a statement such as that was made, but I don't see it outselling TSPP.

I think Keith is onto something with the serials, if in fact stern is that linear for sure with them. That would be a very good method of really honing down on the production numbers.

Care to elaborate on this rebuttal? I'll give you a second chance....ball save!

"People don't want to be given stuff"? Clearly, that is a joke....or is it? You know as well as I do that "people" can be given so much stuff that it makes a $10 an hour job look like chump change.

xf auto 233126 Canada +others Complete Game
tron 233137 Belgium Complete Game
bbh 233164 United States Complete Game
bbh 233171 United States Complete Game
tron 233222 Canada Complete Game
acdc prem 233685 United States Complete Game

That is the basis of my assumption. Filler before the start of a new run.

There's no evidence to prove they've changed since the 9 years I worked there. ;P Given the way the numbering is (still), if they changed something about it, that would only cause the #s to go DOWN (by skipping).

Oh good! Politics on a pinball forum!

Well guys, this is as solid as I think you can get right now, and I don't care what the end result is quite frankly, just interested more than anything.

Keith – I also feel honoured to have just thumbed up you past the 1m karma mark (although it's not as rewarding putting it into words )

Then lets close the thread. I can't stay silent when the labor community gets shit on.

UNION FOR LIFE!!!!

Rarehero and Lowepg - you are going to get this thread closed before it gets uber sweet when Mark comes in and starts chirping Rob given Keith's comments (no dis to either mark or rob, just enjoying the dialogue in this thread).

It's a slow afternoon, please do not ruin this for me

I literally laughed out loud at this one!

You couldn't be more correct. The LE hype market is over and the crazy rush to buy is a thing of the past. I'd bet it's going to get real ugly for some in pinball. REAL UGLY!

It's really not. So let's not even go there, because there is zero chance of it leading to anything remotely pinball related or productive for this thread.

I know you are waiting patiently

Thanks for your insight, Iceman!

Do you happen to know if your son is including Data East and Sega games in that statement as well, or just Stern Pinball, INC.?

For some people "Stern" means all 3, for others not so much!

I would just like all of us to be arguing over the same set of parameters.

Thanks again!

My acdc is 234XXX so the above assumptions are incorrect. My STLE 243XXX you figure it out. 9500+ unit between the 2 games. Stern is just fine. 9 years is a long time in the business world.

righteous bucks

spicoli5.jpg

Sorry, I won't blame workers wanting safe working conditions and fair wages for destroying businesses. Businesses can't exist without workers to make their products or perform their services. They deserve to be treated like human beings.

I'm a union worker and my superiors are doing just fine, making tons of money. The fair working conditions & wages for me and my fellow workers aren't destroying the company. I have friends in the same profession working non-union. They get paid less, have worse working conditions, worse schedules, worse benefits, no pension. If my union didn't exist, they'd (and I'd) have it even worse - as the non-union shops have to be somewhat competitive with the union ones. Destroy unions and every worker suffers. Corporations would be thrilled to have workers in this country working 7 days a week, 12 hours a day & paid next to nothing. Destroy unions, the US becomes China.

Oh, we are discussing politics now? Ok, here's my input on unions.

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/03/08/5_reasons_unions_are_bad_for_america/page/full

Rightwing thinktank talking points that exist only to demean working people and turn them into the enemy. Next...

Proud Union Member!

Too much politics; thread closed.