No. It's very odd. Definitely do not give the machine to that buyer unless he brings cash. You did not tell him to use PayPal and under no circumstances should you accept it now. If PayPal does. One through refund the money.

Agreed proceed with caution and if the machine has not left your hands do not let it.

DO NOT LET THAT MACHINE LEAVE YOUR POSSESSION WITHOUT CASH IN HAND!!!!

If he is in fact legit then he will have no problem with you refunding/cancelling the paypal payment on the spot, paying you cash, and having you write him a bill of sale showing he paid cash.

Nuff said.

Danger Will Robinson!

Funds are on hold until you mark the item shipped (even if your not shipping) and he leaves positive feedback. At that time you will have the funds but there will still be a hold for a certain amount of time based on your selling history.

You're probably okay. As everyone has alluded, do not let that machine out of your sight without either cash or money in your account.

I've dealt with PayPal many times, and unfortunately it's the only option for some folks. eBay has built an effective payment monopoly, so it's POSSIBLE he truly is having a problem. Check his feedback and set a deadline for payment. If you're willing to work with each other, I'm sure it will work out. Good luck.

13 day hold? Holly crap that's a long time, and on top of that they get a bunch of fees out of you. Note to self: Do no accept Paypal.

Speaking of fees and your unwillingness to accept it at first. Did the buyer also pay your fees?

Call PayPal. I called them yesterday because of a hold and he released my funds just based on the fact that it's shipped. Tell them freight no tracking or put in "w553186". All they can say is no, but worth a shot.

Also, with eBay, you HAVE to accept PayPal. It's in the terms of service.

I would require the buyer to pay my fees (2.9%) upon pickup since they did not follow the terms of the ad.

dont let him take the machine until the hold is released. Generally, once the buyer leaves positive feedback, the hold will come off shortly there after.

I don't beleive there needs to be feedback. Definitely have to mark it as shipped, and then wait the requisite number of days for PayPal to clear the funds. The wait time varies by how its shipped and what ability eBay has to track the shipment. If the shipment is prepared thru eBay, then the funds are released earlier as there is a way for them to track delivery. Absent the eBay tracking ability I think they hold the funds for 21 days after its set as shipped.

That said, if the payment looks like its not right, don't let it go. Personally, I'd ask the buyer to undo the PayPal, and go cash for the machine and receipt on pickup.

If I sell a machine on ebay I always put in the description: "If you send me Paypal I will immediately refund it back to you. You must pay with cash for this pinball machine." and Ebay has never made a fuss about it even though it seems they try to force users to only use Paypal...

I remember a time when it was free to list anything on ebay and they did not even allow Paypal to be used as a payment type (Go figure... before they owned Paypal).

Herb,

I have over 2000+ feedback on eBay. Be careful. Is the buyer picking it up? If the buyer picks up your game and them disputes the item with PayPal, you will have to provide PayPal with shipping information that you shipped the item. I would listen to wizzardz above and have the buyer undo the PayPal and only take cash. This is already smelling bad and PayPal will screw you without thinking twice.

Yep...at that point the buyer can dispute it for no reason and they will take the money right out of your account. Beware.

Thats the truth! I've had paypal try to screw me and luckily I had insurance on my package so the buyer had to sign. Thats the only thing that saved me because the buyer tried to reverse the charges and paypal was going to do it without thinking twice!

I have said it many times here. Only use PayPal for the amount that you are willing to lose.

I've read this so many times before and I clinch up every time I accept paypal funds. So far so good, but I've heard that it only takes one bad experience.

Yep. Even if the money is on your bank account they can reverse the charge. The buyer can say 40 days later "it never arrived". PayPal will take the money and hold it even if it requires them taking it back from your bank account or credit card. Then you will have to prove the item shipped. If you can't the buyer gets a refund. Definitely refund that PayPal payment and only accept cash. You've been warned.

Remember, paypal is a business not a bank. They are not required to follow any rules a bank might follow. If you read the agreement you signed when opening the paypal account, you agreed to all this crap.

I only accept PayPal as a gift. Then I transfer the money to my bank account and ship when it's there. Usually takes 3-4 days for the whole thing. Unfortunately with eBay I don't think you can do this. I'd refuse the money from PayPal and tell him that Cash is his only option.

I had to cancel a CC and close a bank acct. to get rid of Ebay and PP.
If you are never selling there again don't accept the payment and relist the game here and on Mr. Pinball.
Sounds like the buyer is trying to scam you, no deal is better than a bad deal.

Totally agree.. this is smelling real bad.... i use paypal all the time, but i did get screwed once before because of not shipping to address listed, buyer claimed never received item....

I would unwind the whole thing , this buyer is a snake!!!!

Hard to say if the buyer is a snake or not, but calling him on the phone (not email) should quickly get things back on track.

In the future, inform the buyer BEFORE he pays that you will be cancelling the Paypal transaction. That way he does not feel that he is somehow getting duped.

If you have to take online funds, only Bitcoins can not be cancelled.

pay-pal/ebay are the judge, jury and executioner

Make sure YOU control the outcome, because if you trust in their system and it fails (and it DOES) you'll find yourself without a chair when the music stops.

I won't go in to all the details of all past experiences with myself and others, but most recent was a comet that was NOT as advertised. I sent someone with cash to pick it up and the seller had it broken down for moving. He insisted all worked, just as his lisiting did. Upon arrival, not much worked, playfield was terrible, and the game was not the same game as in the pictures as he used someone elses pictures. E-mail through EBAYS system showed he acknowledged receipt of payment and pickup but EBAY claimed there was no buyer protection because it was paid for with cash. All I wanted was a refund. That was Ebay's way of saying TS for you and we support the listing...of a pin that was not the same pin as advertised.

Ebay/paypal combo as a last resort.

keep us informed on how this one turns out...

I sell on ebay all the time and never have any issues. If you look at my auctions there is an option "pay on pickup" and I specify in my auction "If you are going to pick up the game then you must pay with cash." I never had issues with people paying upon pickup and if they refused to then I would file a dispute and say it says in my auction that cash must be used on pickup. Otherwise I would not have a shipping number to provide to paypal as proof and they could reverse the payment.

BINGO. This is what I was afraid was/is going on here.

You have the upper hand since you have the machine in your possession. I would reverse the payment in paypal and tell him you want cash. If he refuses then don't sell him the machine. Worst case you get 1 bad feedback and that's not the end of the world. Plus after a year the negative does not count towards your score so you can still be 100%. Much rather have 1 negative feedback then be out all the money if he pulls some shady move with paypal.

I would guess the buyer tried to use bill me later via paypal (possibly denied for a large purchase). It automatically submits to backup source which will be personal bank account, if he has insufficient funds it will keep trying to submit allowing about a week between submissions. The fact that he does not allow the transaction to be cancelled is strange and possibly an indicator of buyer attempting fraud or it could be as harmless as them trying to get together funding. Either way its BS and i'm really surprised it has gone this far.

If paypal was used, couldn't you draw up a bill of sale upon pickup that stated buyer paid with paypal
and picked up the machine in good condition. Seems like if there was a signature on both ends it would serve the same purpose.

You could, but if a PayPal claim came through, PayPal would still side with the buyer and take the money out of your bank account.

I have often wondered if you had the buyer sign a piece of paper as proof of pickup if it would work. I just think it would be a lot of work after having to call Paypal, provide that sheet of paper with the signature, etc. I don't even know if Paypal would honor it either since they always side with the buyer.

Even if you have the Pope's signature from the shipping company, Paypal will reverse the money on you if the buyer says it's not as described or counterfeit, or sometimes for no reason at all.

Lol, after reading the thread, why in the hell would anyone sell/buy a pin on eBay?

To quote Joe Balcer "It is a curiousity Jack."

When I first got into the hobby I "won" a Party Zone when the moldy mushroom farm arrived it was more like a Part Me Zone.
I have managed throughout the years to buy and sell pins and parts without Shillbay and Payenema but the hobby seems to have gone that way, few parts for sale just links to Ebay actions.

I would love to dispute a paypal transaction to verify these claims that paypal sides with the buyer, end of story, $ refunded.

Not a very good business model if you intend on continuing to be in business. Millions of paypal transactions take place weekly (millions? maybe, I dunno, but a lot) I guess the same is true with any credit cards. Really it's the same process (dispute, contact seller, they provide documentation of order and shipment) So I guess it's cash only, all the time. Kinda of inconvenient unless you are local.

Sell a few high ticket items on Ebay, it won't be long until it happens.

It would be ok to sell on eBay. Just don't use PayPal.

This is true. A peice of paper would NEVER work. You can have signature confirmation and if they state it is "not as described" you lose. No questions asked.

You don't need to. It's all here.... http://www.paypalsucks.com/ You can't make this s/;t up.

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity edited}

Well, purchasing a pin on eBay would be fine, but selling it on eBay and accepting Paypal would be a huge risk. Paypal will take the seller's money to pay the buyer if there is an item not described case, and Paypal will do anything they have to do to find the seller's money. In fact, I think eBay now requires sellers to put up $2000 on a credit card as collateral just to be allowed to sell on there.

I received a paypal payment for an item and the funds were not available because the money that was deposited in the buyers account had to clear with paypal before I could get the funds. I told the seller that the item would ship when the funds were available to me. I had to wait for a couple of weeks but I did end up getting all the money. Plus extra for the fees. Everything worked out ok. I recently bought two machines off Ebay and was extremely happy with both of them. Guess I got lucky.

I am a seller on Fleabay with feedback of more than 5000 and I have taken PayPal to our Ombudsman in Australia MORE THAN 60 times so far to FORCE them to be reasonable.

You do not have an Ombudsman like we do in AU so PayPal do as they please and continue to get away with it.

Here is my advice in this instance.

(1) Your terms CLEARLY stated 'CASH no PayPal'
(2) buyer paid with PayPal WITHOUT consulting you
(3) Refund the PP payment NOW and send a stern but friendly email OUTSIDE the eBay system (direct to their email address) stating that you WILL NOT accept PP for this sale and you made that clear from day one.
(4) If you accept PP the buyer can do a chargeback 'goods never received' - you cannot prove a thing REGARDLESS of any papers you might sign to make you feel good IT WON'T WASH WITH PP.

If you let the machine go I fear you will lose your machine and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

DON'T RISK IT - IT ISN'T WORTH IT - TELL HIM IT'S CASH OR SHOVE OFF!

What is the best alternative to Paypal that allows a buyer to use plastic? I have always cash and carried as I like to see what I am buying and never go in the hole, but I have been tempted at times to jump on something and may not have the stack of green ready and using a credit card would solve that problem. What does anyone accept as payment to allow a buyer to charge it?