I'd be fine without those other companies. There are tons of great games made before any of them existed. And yes I am a collector/player. I like to play with my friends, their collections and mine. And I'm not real interested in tournament/league play.

One way to get a sense of it would be to look at the #of pinsider accounts over time. robin would be able to help with that. Here's where we are now:
FOUND 85510 PINSIDERS
Found 85510 Pinsiders, who have logged on at least once.

Jesus... you guys gotta pick one.

is it rich people ruining the hobby or new people? or rich new people?

Its hard to keep track of the whining on here sometimes.

When there gets to be too much negativity I close out my browsers and go play pinball by myself or pick and choose to invite the people I like to come play.

Or poor people. Or new poor people.

LTG : )

I thought of another group. The great unwashed masses or the new great unwashed masses.

Those that don't need a NIB game. They'll be happy with a new used one. Or an older game in great shape. Or any game they can make better or bring back to life.

Those that are into pinball just for what it is.

LTG : )

This line of thinking brings out the inner pinball existentialist in me. I must now ask myself where I fit in.

Seems to be a rarity these days!

I get the argument that new people to hobby brings up the cost of the secondary market. However this is only good for anyone that already owns machines in the long run. Most everyone is seeing the value of the pinball machines go up. Which means that we are able to sell machines for higher then we initially bought them for. My personal opinion is bring on the noobs. I love seeing the value of my pinball machines go up because of the demand. (probably not a popular opinion but whatever)
PS as a younger guy that has played for 15 years and owned for the last 5 years, I really appreciate all the Older collectors thar are supporting new people to the hobby. Let’s spread more of that positivity in our community! The growth is good.

Not for me. Been buying, selling, collecting, trading, fixing since 1982. I’m entering retirement. I still have 8 machines (52 at my height). Through all of my years there have been a few bitchy constants:

Prices keep going up
Flippers are ruining the hobby
Operators don’t care
Location games suck

I have learned that throughout my life that 90% of the people could care less about objectives, flipper strength, or if key features of a game work. They put their coin in and flip.

We are the weird and we are willing to pay. In my mind, it’s a great thing that each year there are more and more of us weird people. Prices go up, but so is supply. If demand continues to increase, more manufacturers will emerge - give it time. It’s a great time for pinball. Just ask those of us that were part of the video and them late ‘90’s downturn. We talked about how close we were to pinball’s death. That’s no longer the case.

Long live pinball and all of the players, operators, arcade owners, collectors, flippers, and price speculators. The hobby we love has been dealt the death blow several times, but here we are. We are larger and stronger than ever - and growing.

Good points.

We have a Godzilla at the office on free play. Me and one other guy plays the hell out of it, everyone else just goes right past it to put their shitty bagel in the toaster oven and post about cats on Facebook.

Those of us posting here are pinball extremists. God bless us every one.

Someone buy this guy a beer.

We need a centrally planned pinball economy. The number of manufacturers, parts, shows, new games built, old games restored, tournaments, leagues, and collectors could be mapped out in a series of five year plans to keep supply and demand strictly in sync. You would be told in advance when you could enter the hobby, and when you would acquire which games. So much less to stress about that way.

They don't need to "absorb" anything. They're selling every game they build and charging more than ever for them. They're doing just fine running their business exactly the way they deem fit. And all this new money has allowed them to finally put some money back into the pins after some lean years with additional talented staff being hired, getting good IP to work with, and trying to give more bang for the increased buck to the customer.

Do I enjoy the increase in pricing and reduction in supply? Of course not. It just means instead of buying every 3rd title or so (on average), I buy the ones that really click with me and I just enjoy them more instead if always focusing on "what's next"

Every hobby (like life) is always adapting and evolving. Enjoy it for what it is and don't dislike it for what it isn't and you'll find the ride much more fun.

I bought a CV refurbished to like new condition in 2003 for $3,800 from some guy selling W/B reconditioned pins out of his garage in Menifee, California. By 2004 those deals were gone. Early 2000s Stern was lame.

Yep, in 1999 that CV was 1850 NIB... had already doubled by 2003.

Anyone else get a totally normal PM with OP's phone number asking to call him to talk like men and not keyboard warriors?

Yes, see my post above. He belongs in the funny farm.

At the time WMS was getting out, we weren't even confident about the general use parts. Stern parts were/are not compatible. Pinball Life was just starting up and did not have the full compliment of parts they do today.

We just need all the supply chains to come back. None of these manufacturers are operating anywhere near full capacity.

I got the exact same one. Maybe sending a bunch of pinball dear John letters is his way to drive people out of the hobby, thus lowering prices?

Nothing says "made my case clearly" like a 150+ post thread, changing the thread title, and then sending your personal information out trolling for a verbal confrontation.

The danger of starting a forum thread - someone might disagree with you!

Lol , that's happened to me many times
Giving out your number is a rookie move .
You have to learn when to just let it go .

Pro move is to give out someone else’s number.

Flippers are ruining the hobby? What is that argument all about, do they mean the quality of the flippers?
Or is that supposed to be ironic?

That cracked me up

Put someone else's number (presumably a friend, but enemies could work too I suppose) and a low price on a game at a show...now that's always a good time .

I don’t agree with the OP. But why not keep private messages private?

Read above. he copied and pasted the exact same message and sent it to everyone here that disagreed with him. Hardly "private".

But I disagreed with him, and didn't get the PM. Now I feel snubbed...

So to clarify (which you seem to have to do ALOT), when you said this:

What you MEANT you wanted a 1 on 1 discussion, with a few select people, and now the reactions that you are not sad or hurt by are nasty and distasteful? Just trying to connect the dots here. You're the only one "triggered" man...no one else launched a bunch of PMs demanding a phone call based on this thread.

I find getting nasty PMs "apologizing" that I was "upset" to be distasteful, but as you said, it is what it is. Sorry your thread backfired on you and now you have to do a bunch of weird mea culpa and mental gymnastics to backtrack, but that's no one's fault but yours man.

Although, since you've been in the hobby two years, you're making a strong case that new people ARE bad...so I guess you won after all .

But were you TRIGGERED? I think only the triggered snowflakes like us got the PMs.

Yes, we could always use more discussion on this very forum for such a rare topic.

Jimmy Buffett mic drop! You couldn’t have used a more appropriate picture. Make the pin, I’ll be first in line. I missed the MGC for the first time since the Nicolet High school days this fall because I attended the Parrothead convention in Key West instead. To quote Buffett - “We Are The People Our Parents Warned Us About.”

Nailed it again! OP needs to just let it go, or not.....

Still private, just with economies of scale

Why would anyone choose to start multiple private arguments? Seems inefficient.

I don't even know why he wants to keep arguing? Everyone here has made it clear they feel the problem is supply, not demand. No manufacturer is producing games even close to pre-covid quantity. Posting "new people in the hobby is bad" when the problem is really lack of games is just asking for a fight. And after he got his fight, he backed off the verbiage and is now trying to agree with us?

Stupid thread.

If your son, daughter or loved one wanted to get into the hobby and asked you for advice, would you discourage them because of your concerns that "too many new people" are getting into the hobby and screwing up the market? If not, then you are just being selfish and only care about you and your loved ones "getting theirs". Eff everyone else.

This thread has derailed. Can we back to the koala discussion?