(Topic ID: 307958)

So I'm gonna say it...new people getting into the hobby...has some downsides!

By DakotaMike

4 months ago


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  • 233 posts
  • 119 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by phil-lee
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    There are 233 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 4 months ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Yep, instead we have Spooky, JJP, American and some smaller companies. Way better than *one* company.

    A few.. the two Keefer games, maybe T3. Lawlor's stuff paled compared to his WMS efforts.

    They were going up then as fast as they are now, especially on desirable titles.

    Very much so.

    What kind of hell are you from anyway? "It's more fun to compete!" Really, you're striking me as a collector/looker rather than a player.

    I'd be fine without those other companies. There are tons of great games made before any of them existed. And yes I am a collector/player. I like to play with my friends, their collections and mine. And I'm not real interested in tournament/league play.

    #152 4 months ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Has anyone actually quantified how popular pinball is and how much the home market has grown? I guarantee that it is still incredibly niche. I would also warn against assuming that sales for at home luxury good like pinballs or hot tubs will continue to stay high once the pandemic is beyond us. Whether that’s 1 year or 4 years from now. I’m not suggesting pinball will “crash” but rather correct its growth pattern to what it was closer to pre pandemic.

    One way to get a sense of it would be to look at the #of pinsider accounts over time. robin would be able to help with that. Here's where we are now:
    FOUND 85510 PINSIDERS
    Found 85510 Pinsiders, who have logged on at least once.

    #153 4 months ago

    Jesus... you guys gotta pick one.

    is it rich people ruining the hobby or new people? or rich new people?

    Its hard to keep track of the whining on here sometimes.

    #154 4 months ago

    When there gets to be too much negativity I close out my browsers and go play pinball by myself or pick and choose to invite the people I like to come play.

    #155 4 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Jesus... you guys gotta pick one.

    is it rich people ruining the hobby or new people? or rich new people?

    Or poor people. Or new poor people.

    LTG : )

    #156 4 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    you guys gotta pick one.

    I thought of another group. The great unwashed masses or the new great unwashed masses.

    Those that don't need a NIB game. They'll be happy with a new used one. Or an older game in great shape. Or any game they can make better or bring back to life.

    Those that are into pinball just for what it is.

    LTG : )

    #157 4 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I thought of another group. The great unwashed masses or the new great unwashed masses.
    Those that don't need a NIB game. They'll be happy with a new used one. Or an older game in great shape. Or any game they can make better or bring back to life.
    Those that are into pinball just for what it is.
    LTG : )

    This line of thinking brings out the inner pinball existentialist in me. I must now ask myself where I fit in.

    #158 4 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Those that are into pinball just for what it is.
    LTG : )

    Seems to be a rarity these days!

    #159 4 months ago

    I get the argument that new people to hobby brings up the cost of the secondary market. However this is only good for anyone that already owns machines in the long run. Most everyone is seeing the value of the pinball machines go up. Which means that we are able to sell machines for higher then we initially bought them for. My personal opinion is bring on the noobs. I love seeing the value of my pinball machines go up because of the demand. (probably not a popular opinion but whatever)
    PS as a younger guy that has played for 15 years and owned for the last 5 years, I really appreciate all the Older collectors thar are supporting new people to the hobby. Let’s spread more of that positivity in our community! The growth is good.

    -4
    #160 4 months ago
    Quoted from nexfx:

    PS as a younger guy that has played for 15 years and owned for the last 5 years, I really appreciate all the Older collectors thar are supporting new people to the hobby. Let’s spread more of that positivity in our community! The growth is good.

    Growth is good, but too much growth, too fast isn't. We've all seen small businesses that get some early success, but then expand too quickly and their quality drops, or that certain magic they captured is gone. I feel like the pinball market, and the manufacturers, are having a hard time absorbing the growth in pinball home-ownership that's taken place in the last year and a half.

    I think a steadier pace of growth would be healthier for the hobby. But clearly many others don't share that opinion, and don't mind the increased prices and decreased supply that comes with such rapid growth.

    23
    #161 4 months ago
    Quoted from NEW-B:

    The best time to get into pinball was always 10 years before you got into pinball.

    Not for me. Been buying, selling, collecting, trading, fixing since 1982. I’m entering retirement. I still have 8 machines (52 at my height). Through all of my years there have been a few bitchy constants:

    Prices keep going up
    Flippers are ruining the hobby
    Operators don’t care
    Location games suck

    I have learned that throughout my life that 90% of the people could care less about objectives, flipper strength, or if key features of a game work. They put their coin in and flip.

    We are the weird and we are willing to pay. In my mind, it’s a great thing that each year there are more and more of us weird people. Prices go up, but so is supply. If demand continues to increase, more manufacturers will emerge - give it time. It’s a great time for pinball. Just ask those of us that were part of the video and them late ‘90’s downturn. We talked about how close we were to pinball’s death. That’s no longer the case.

    Long live pinball and all of the players, operators, arcade owners, collectors, flippers, and price speculators. The hobby we love has been dealt the death blow several times, but here we are. We are larger and stronger than ever - and growing.

    #162 4 months ago
    Quoted from FrankJ:Not for me. Been buying, selling, collecting, trading, fixing since 1982. I’m entering retirement. I still have 8 machines (52 at my height). Through all of my years there have been a few bitchy constants:
    Prices keep going up
    Flippers are ruining the hobby
    Operators don’t care
    Location games suck
    I have learned that throughout my life that 90% of the people could care less about objectives, flipper strength, or if key features of a game work. They put their coin in and flip.
    We are the weird and we are willing to pay. In my mind, it’s a great thing that each year there are more and more of us weird people. Prices go up, but so is supply. If demand continues to increase, more manufacturers will emerge - give it time. It’s a great time for pinball. Just ask those of us that were part of the video and them late ‘90’s downturn. We talked about how close we were to pinball’s death. That’s no longer the case.
    Long live pinball and all of the players, operators, arcade owners, collectors, flippers, and price speculators. The hobby we love has been dealt the death blow several times, but here we are. We are larger and stronger than ever - and growing.

    Good points.

    We have a Godzilla at the office on free play. Me and one other guy plays the hell out of it, everyone else just goes right past it to put their shitty bagel in the toaster oven and post about cats on Facebook.

    Those of us posting here are pinball extremists. God bless us every one.

    #163 4 months ago

    Well, I’ll apologize for being new and scooping up high demand pins.
    As an act of contrition, I’ll be happy to sell my Ultraman CE at my cost.

    #164 4 months ago
    Quoted from FrankJ:

    It’s a great time for pinball.

    57B84FC2-62F8-450E-9DFB-3C873644B964 (resized).jpeg
    #165 4 months ago
    Quoted from FrankJ:

    Not for me. Been buying, selling, collecting, trading, fixing since 1982. I’m entering retirement. I still have 8 machines (52 at my height). Through all of my years there have been a few bitchy constants:
    Prices keep going up
    Flippers are ruining the hobby
    Operators don’t care
    Location games suck
    I have learned that throughout my life that 90% of the people could care less about objectives, flipper strength, or if key features of a game work. They put their coin in and flip.
    We are the weird and we are willing to pay. In my mind, it’s a great thing that each year there are more and more of us weird people. Prices go up, but so is supply. If demand continues to increase, more manufacturers will emerge - give it time. It’s a great time for pinball. Just ask those of us that were part of the video and them late ‘90’s downturn. We talked about how close we were to pinball’s death. That’s no longer the case.
    Long live pinball and all of the players, operators, arcade owners, collectors, flippers, and price speculators. The hobby we love has been dealt the death blow several times, but here we are. We are larger and stronger than ever - and growing.

    Someone buy this guy a beer.

    #166 4 months ago

    We need a centrally planned pinball economy. The number of manufacturers, parts, shows, new games built, old games restored, tournaments, leagues, and collectors could be mapped out in a series of five year plans to keep supply and demand strictly in sync. You would be told in advance when you could enter the hobby, and when you would acquire which games. So much less to stress about that way.

    #167 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Growth is good, but too much growth, too fast isn't. We've all seen small businesses that get some early success, but then expand too quickly and their quality drops, or that certain magic they captured is gone. I feel like the pinball market, and the manufacturers, are having a hard time absorbing the growth in pinball home-ownership that's taken place in the last year and a half.
    I think a steadier pace of growth would be healthier for the hobby. But clearly many others don't share that opinion, and don't mind the increased prices and decreased supply that comes with such rapid growth.

    They don't need to "absorb" anything. They're selling every game they build and charging more than ever for them. They're doing just fine running their business exactly the way they deem fit. And all this new money has allowed them to finally put some money back into the pins after some lean years with additional talented staff being hired, getting good IP to work with, and trying to give more bang for the increased buck to the customer.

    Do I enjoy the increase in pricing and reduction in supply? Of course not. It just means instead of buying every 3rd title or so (on average), I buy the ones that really click with me and I just enjoy them more instead if always focusing on "what's next"

    Every hobby (like life) is always adapting and evolving. Enjoy it for what it is and don't dislike it for what it isn't and you'll find the ride much more fun.

    #168 4 months ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Early 2000s was:
    - No WMS, no Capcom, no Gottleib. Just Stern, and they stunk. No real homebrew either, aside from things like CBaFGPD
    - Why did Stern stink? Harley, SX, Golden Cue, Austin Powers, etc. We did get a bit of hope with Monopoly, for what that was worth.
    - Prices on the good WMS games shooting upwards because of Stern's crap offerings
    - People hoarding game-specific parts worse than they hoard LEs today
    - Very few leagues, very small competitive scene
    Early 2000s kinda sucked compared to today.

    I bought a CV refurbished to like new condition in 2003 for $3,800 from some guy selling W/B reconditioned pins out of his garage in Menifee, California. By 2004 those deals were gone. Early 2000s Stern was lame.

    #169 4 months ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    We need a centrally planned pinball economy. The number of manufacturers, parts, shows, new games built, old games restored, tournaments, leagues, and collectors could be mapped out in a series of five year plans to keep supply and demand strictly in sync. You would be told in advance when you could enter the hobby, and when you would acquire which games. So much less to stress about that way.

    #170 4 months ago
    Quoted from Yoreland:

    I bought a CV refurbished to like new condition in 2003 for $3,800 from some guy selling W/B reconditioned pins out of his garage in Menifee, California. By 2004 those deals were gone. Early 2000s Stern was lame.

    Yep, in 1999 that CV was 1850 NIB... had already doubled by 2003.

    #171 4 months ago

    Anyone else get a totally normal PM with OP's phone number asking to call him to talk like men and not keyboard warriors?

    -1
    #173 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Anyone else get a totally normal PM with OP's phone number asking to call him to talk like men and not keyboard warriors?

    Yes, see my post above. He belongs in the funny farm.

    #174 4 months ago
    Quoted from porkcarrot:

    Game specific parts I assume were an issue.

    At the time WMS was getting out, we weren't even confident about the general use parts. Stern parts were/are not compatible. Pinball Life was just starting up and did not have the full compliment of parts they do today.

    #175 4 months ago

    We just need all the supply chains to come back. None of these manufacturers are operating anywhere near full capacity.

    #176 4 months ago
    Quoted from jake35:

    Yes, see my post above. He belongs in the funny farm.

    I got the exact same one. Maybe sending a bunch of pinball dear John letters is his way to drive people out of the hobby, thus lowering prices?

    Nothing says "made my case clearly" like a 150+ post thread, changing the thread title, and then sending your personal information out trolling for a verbal confrontation.

    #177 4 months ago

    The danger of starting a forum thread - someone might disagree with you!

    #178 4 months ago
    Quoted from Dogford_Studios:

    The danger of starting a forum thread - someone might disagree with you!

    Lol , that's happened to me many times
    Giving out your number is a rookie move .
    You have to learn when to just let it go .

    10
    #179 4 months ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    Giving out your number is a rookie move .
    You have to learn when to just let it go .

    Pro move is to give out someone else’s number.

    #180 4 months ago
    Quoted from FrankJ:

    Not for me. Been buying, selling, collecting, trading, fixing since 1982. I’m entering retirement. I still have 8 machines (52 at my height). Through all of my years there have been a few bitchy constants:
    Prices keep going up
    Flippers are ruining the hobby
    Operators don’t care
    Location games suck
    I have learned that throughout my life that 90% of the people could care less about objectives, flipper strength, or if key features of a game work. They put their coin in and flip.
    We are the weird and we are willing to pay. In my mind, it’s a great thing that each year there are more and more of us weird people. Prices go up, but so is supply. If demand continues to increase, more manufacturers will emerge - give it time. It’s a great time for pinball. Just ask those of us that were part of the video and them late ‘90’s downturn. We talked about how close we were to pinball’s death. That’s no longer the case.
    Long live pinball and all of the players, operators, arcade owners, collectors, flippers, and price speculators. The hobby we love has been dealt the death blow several times, but here we are. We are larger and stronger than ever - and growing.

    Flippers are ruining the hobby? What is that argument all about, do they mean the quality of the flippers?
    Or is that supposed to be ironic?

    #181 4 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:Pro move is to give out someone else’s number.

    That cracked me up

    #182 4 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Pro move is to give out someone else’s number.

    Put someone else's number (presumably a friend, but enemies could work too I suppose) and a low price on a game at a show...now that's always a good time .

    #183 4 months ago

    I don’t agree with the OP. But why not keep private messages private?

    -2
    #184 4 months ago
    Quoted from Goronic:

    I don’t agree with the OP. But why not keep private messages private?

    Read above. he copied and pasted the exact same message and sent it to everyone here that disagreed with him. Hardly "private".

    #185 4 months ago
    Quoted from jake35:

    Read above. he copied and pasted the exact same message and sent it to everyone here that disagreed with him. Hardly "private".

    But I disagreed with him, and didn't get the PM. Now I feel snubbed...

    #186 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Anyone else get a totally normal PM with OP's phone number asking to call him to talk like men and not keyboard warriors?

    Quoted from jake35:

    Yes, see my post above. He belongs in the funny farm.

    Sigh...I was just trying to "Take it to the PM." As I find nasty public arguments to be distasteful. So I messaged a few people that seemed particularly triggered by what I wrote, or by what they seemed to think I wrote, and who made their disagreements more personal. I offered to continue the discussion via messenger, or even via phone call. As I find a one-on-one conversation, either in person or via phone call, can cut through a lot of the bs and noise that you get with online communication. I assume the people I contacted actually enjoy pinball, and hopefully aren't jerks in real life, so we'd probably have a lot of common ground.

    I don't particularly appreciate our PM's being screenshotted for public consumption in this thread, as that's literally the opposite of what "Take it to the PM" is intended to accomplish. But it is what it is. I think anyone that actually reads and comprehends my posts and messages could see that I'm not actually saying anything unreasonable. Nor am I hating on anyone, new or old. But some people want to just project ideas and arguments onto me, that I'm not even making.

    Pinball is supposed to be fun, but I would hope that there is a little room for some discussion about less fun topics like demand/supply driven price-inflation.

    #187 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:Sigh...I was just trying to "Take it to the PM." As I find nasty public arguments to be distasteful. So I messaged a few people that seemed particularly triggered by what I wrote, or by what they seemed to think I wrote, and who made their disagreements more personal. I offered to continue the discussion via messenger, or even via phone call. As I find a one-on-one conversation, either in person or via phone call, can cut through a lot of the bs and noise that you get with online communication. I assume the people I contacted actually enjoy pinball, and hopefully aren't jerks in real life, so we'd probably have a lot of common ground.
    I don't particularly appreciate our PM's being screenshotted for public consumption in this thread, as that's literally the opposite of what "Take it to the PM" is intended to accomplish. But it is what it is. I think anyone that actually reads and comprehends my posts and messages could see that I'm not actually saying anything unreasonable. Nor am I hating on anyone, new or old. But some people want to just project ideas and arguments onto me, that I'm not even making.
    Pinball is supposed to be fun, but I would hope that there is a little room for some discussion about less fun topics like demand/supply driven price-inflation.

    So to clarify (which you seem to have to do ALOT), when you said this:

    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Oh yeah, I purposely chose it to grab attention. And it worked in spades. Believe me, I'm neither sad nor hurt by the negative reactions or funny memes. Keep 'em coming!

    What you MEANT you wanted a 1 on 1 discussion, with a few select people, and now the reactions that you are not sad or hurt by are nasty and distasteful? Just trying to connect the dots here. You're the only one "triggered" man...no one else launched a bunch of PMs demanding a phone call based on this thread.

    I find getting nasty PMs "apologizing" that I was "upset" to be distasteful, but as you said, it is what it is. Sorry your thread backfired on you and now you have to do a bunch of weird mea culpa and mental gymnastics to backtrack, but that's no one's fault but yours man.

    Although, since you've been in the hobby two years, you're making a strong case that new people ARE bad...so I guess you won after all .

    #188 4 months ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    But I disagreed with him, and didn't get the PM. Now I feel snubbed...

    But were you TRIGGERED? I think only the triggered snowflakes like us got the PMs.

    #189 4 months ago
    Asset_Get-Off-My-Lawn-300x200 (resized).png
    #190 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    I would hope that there is a little room for some discussion about less fun topics like demand/supply driven price-inflation.

    Yes, we could always use more discussion on this very forum for such a rare topic.

    #191 4 months ago
    Quoted from LORDDREK:

    [quoted image]

    Jimmy Buffett mic drop! You couldn’t have used a more appropriate picture. Make the pin, I’ll be first in line. I missed the MGC for the first time since the Nicolet High school days this fall because I attended the Parrothead convention in Key West instead. To quote Buffett - “We Are The People Our Parents Warned Us About.”

    #192 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:So to clarify (which you seem to have to do ALOT), when you said this:

    What you MEANT you wanted a 1 on 1 discussion, with a few select people, and now the reactions that you are not sad or hurt by are nasty and distasteful? Just trying to connect the dots here. You're the only one "triggered" man...no one else launched a bunch of PMs demanding a phone call based on this thread.
    I find getting nasty PMs "apologizing" that I was "upset" to be distasteful, but as you said, it is what it is. Sorry your thread backfired on you and now you have to do a bunch of weird mea culpa and mental gymnastics to backtrack, but that's no one's fault but yours man.
    Although, since you've been in the hobby two years, you're making a strong case that new people ARE bad...so I guess you won after all .

    Nailed it again! OP needs to just let it go, or not.....

    #193 4 months ago
    Quoted from jake35:

    Read above. he copied and pasted the exact same message and sent it to everyone here that disagreed with him. Hardly "private".

    Still private, just with economies of scale

    #194 4 months ago

    Why would anyone choose to start multiple private arguments? Seems inefficient.

    #196 4 months ago

    I don't even know why he wants to keep arguing? Everyone here has made it clear they feel the problem is supply, not demand. No manufacturer is producing games even close to pre-covid quantity. Posting "new people in the hobby is bad" when the problem is really lack of games is just asking for a fight. And after he got his fight, he backed off the verbiage and is now trying to agree with us?

    Stupid thread.

    #197 4 months ago

    If your son, daughter or loved one wanted to get into the hobby and asked you for advice, would you discourage them because of your concerns that "too many new people" are getting into the hobby and screwing up the market? If not, then you are just being selfish and only care about you and your loved ones "getting theirs". Eff everyone else.

    #198 4 months ago

    This thread has derailed. Can we back to the koala discussion?

    #199 4 months ago
    Quoted from rx3:

    If your son, daughter or loved one wanted to get into the hobby and asked you for advice, would you discourage them because of your concerns that "too many new people" are getting into the hobby and screwing up the market? If not, then you are just being selfish and only care about you and your loved ones "getting theirs". Eff everyone else.

    I would tell them it's a bad time to buy a game for your home. But a great time to play on location, join a league, or enter your first tourney.

    #200 4 months ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    I don't even know why he wants to keep arguing? Everyone here has made it clear they feel the problem is supply, not demand. No manufacturer is producing games even close to pre-covid quantity. Posting "new people in the hobby is bad" when the problem is really lack of games is just asking for a fight. And after he got his fight, he backed off the verbiage and is now trying to agree with us?
    Stupid thread.

    Supposedly Stern is back to pre-covid production levels. And has been so for some time. Gomez even said that they are making more games than they ever have before, in spite of the supply challenges and covid safety precautions that they have to take at the factory. Can't remember which interview he said that, but it was fairly recent.

    There are 233 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.

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