(Topic ID: 307958)

So I'm gonna say it...new people getting into the hobby...has some downsides!

By DakotaMike

4 months ago


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  • 233 posts
  • 119 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by phil-lee
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    There are 233 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
    #51 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Weren't you looking for your first pin just 2 years ago?
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-gorgar-1
    Kind of a dick move to steal a game from everyone that has been here longer than you don't you think? Thanks for driving the prices up for us!

    Nothing gets by on Pinside. If I need a detective I"m coming here..... As someone said above, we were all new at one time. New people are great for the hobby.

    #52 4 months ago

    “For the queen to use”

    All good people- Yes.

    #53 4 months ago

    Through the looking glass hole is where they are falling. IMO. For the queen to use…

    14
    #54 4 months ago

    One last comment from me. Pinball saved my life after I had a stroke and three brain surgeries.

    Don’t talk to strangers! Don’t let them inside your mind. Runaway run away, go


    Here is a fellow pinsider visiting me six years ago. Saved my life, this hobby. -Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.

    BDF48AF6-C78F-47B9-90B0-5A0154C5F078 (resized).jpeg
    #55 4 months ago

    I think new comers is ok, but the biggest thing that bothers me are some of the new people selling on pinside. First of all the prices are freaking nuts, and I think some of them dont understand what the word "mint" or "no damage" means. So I would be careful buying from new comers.

    Just my two cents.

    #56 4 months ago

    Just tell them how much a machine costs...

    #57 4 months ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    One last comment from me. Pinball saved my life after I had a stroke and three brain surgeries.
    Don’t talk to strangers! Don’t let them inside your mind. Runaway run away, go

    Here is a fellow pinsider visiting me six years ago. Saved my life, this hobby. -Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.
    [quoted image]

    D6EEB3C9-E877-4DAF-B474-4FE1A9488438 (resized).jpeg
    -1
    #58 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Weren't you looking for your first pin just 2 years ago?
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-gorgar-1
    Kind of a dick move to steal a game from everyone that has been here longer than you don't you think? Thanks for driving the prices up for us!

    OMG even more selfish… LOL!

    And pinball repair? Hell I have only been at this a year and can easily tackle anything mechanical and non board troubleshooting. I’d love to offer pinball repair I just don’t have the bandwidth.

    Look in my short time at it even I’ve seen prices continue to rocket but deals can still be had. The pinball league I joined has never had so many members before. Like all else the novelty will wear off for many but the hobby overall has just grown immensely. And that is good thing.

    I look forward to seeing what new designs and manufacturers rise from all of this. It is inevitable. The OP is wishing for the Dark Ages of pinball to return just for personal gain. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days…

    #59 4 months ago

    Bring on more pinheads I say. I remember being on pinside over 10 years ago and we all wished “new games had more toys and shots like the 90’s games”
    Well, now we have that and and more! I guess Our hobby needed more people, supply/demand and obviously higher prices.
    Remember when Iron Man was New and we all whined because “there’s nothing on the playfield”
    I’m happier with my machines now than ever. I’m even keeping them! Some of you recall my history of selling pins a week after I bought them new.

    And to the noobs, JUST Play! It took me years to realize that is so true.
    The newest, baddest, most modded is great but, just play! You’ll be happier.

    #60 4 months ago

    If you'd prefer that your hobby die like the arcades these pins used to be in then you're in for a rude awakening. You wouldn't be getting a new machine announced every 6 months if there weren't new blood joining the hobby.

    If you can't see any upside to more people joining the hobby then I think you need to get some glasses.

    #61 4 months ago
    Quoted from jake35:

    If you paid 15,500 for a gnr le you got robbed. They are 10k NIB still and sold daily

    Is the Australian flag not visible on my profile ?
    I got in before the price rise
    And we're actually a lot cheaper than New Zealand , Europe and the UK .

    IMG_20220114_004726 (resized).jpg
    18
    #62 4 months ago

    Gatekeeping is the worst, and it's a shame to hear so many people willing to do it in our little hobby.

    I feel that everyone's welcome, and you never know how these new people will contribute. Maybe it'll be someone who's skilled in parts making or machining and is passionate about making new hard-to-find parts, maybe it'll an artist who can make fun new alternate backglasses like Aurich did, or has crazy restoration skills, programming skills, electronic repair skills, and can funnel those skills into pinball.

    Or maybe they're just a regular person who wants a couple games to preserve in their basement, and is passionate about keeping them well maintained.

    Let 'em in! I love seeing all the new excitement at shows and meeting all these new people.

    12
    #63 4 months ago

    If you like innovation in your pins, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like a greater selection of parts, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like other people to play with, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like a greater selection of games, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like (ultimately) lower prices due to pinball becoming less niche, more manufacturers joining in, and more pins ultimately being manufactured, you want more people in the hobby.

    If you want to believe in the fairytale "less people in the hobby would make it like the good ol' days of 1998", then yeah, you'd want less people in the hobby.

    Bring the newbies on!

    #64 4 months ago
    Quoted from BriannaWu:

    Oh no, more people are enjoying my hobby!

    Haha. And the OP is a noob as well to boot! lol

    #65 4 months ago

    I hate men because they take all the women.

    I hate salsa because they cause people to buy all the chips.

    I hate koalas cuz they eat all the eucalyptus leaves and I might want some of those.

    #66 4 months ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    I’m a long time player but fairly new to the hobby (6 years), but one of my favorite parts of the hobby is getting people stoked about playing these games. I think it’s great when people get into the hobby after playing at my house, and I have at least 5 new buddies in the hobby as a direct result of my basement. We have parties and once in a while someone comes over to talk with that look….uh oh he/she’s hooked. I think it’s great for the hobby personally and am willing to wait/pay a little more for the health of the hobby.

    Same, friends of mine who never would have thought of getting into pinball love when they come over my house to play a few games. And them asking a bunch of questions about it all is great! I love it.

    #67 4 months ago

    congrats on the dumbest post I have read so far this year.

    #68 4 months ago

    There was a time when people wondered how long pinball would live on. Seriously was discussed on these boards. To see this thread amazes me. The fact that another generation will have pinball machines in their basements and new titles are coming out left and right is really good. Everything is costing more these days in the collector world.

    This is a very one sided view of things and not valid from an industry perspective. Demand is good for the the pinball world. Period.

    13
    #69 4 months ago

    Nice to know I'm not welcome since I bought my first pin only 1 year ago. Bought 5 new pins and sold 1 to a fellow pinsider at below cost. Good to know I'm bad for the hobby... Cheers!

    #70 4 months ago
    Quoted from arcyallen:

    If you like innovation in your pins, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like a greater selection of parts, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like other people to play with, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like a greater selection of games, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you like (ultimately) lower prices due to pinball becoming less niche, more manufacturers joining in, and more pins ultimately being manufactured, you want more people in the hobby.
    If you want to believe in the fairytale "less people in the hobby would make it like the good ol' days of 1998", then yeah, you'd want less people in the hobby.
    Bring the newbies on!

    A pin for every home!

    #71 4 months ago

    More people in pinball is AWESOME!

    Yes, the barrier to entry is higher but there are so many benefits.

    1. More pinheads means more locations and more people asking for them on location, and therefore more different pins for me to try.
    2. More pinheads means more pins at pinball shows and more different pins for me to try, and new friends to share with.
    3. More pinheads means that when I get tired of a game, I have people lined up to come deliver a new (to me) game lined up at my door and I can easily change out my lineup.
    4. More pinheads means more places making spare parts for more games meaning I can actually get the replacement parts I need. Something as simple as replacement mountains on whitewater was unobtanium even 3 years ago, but are readily available now.
    5. More pinheads means more people getting into restoration and more older pins being saved and/or coming back to life. Some of you guys have Ron Swanson cabinet making repair abilities, michelangelo painting skills, and Doc Brown board repair skills.
    6. More pinheads means more money in the industry, more manufacturers, more competition, and better economies of scale. The pinflation on new machines and waits are a result of COVID, not the hobby. It wasn't like this, "in the before time".

    All in all, more people in pinball is AWESOME and I happily welcome noobs into the hobby.

    #72 4 months ago

    The problem is not the new people, it's finding new games.

    #73 4 months ago

    Also think of how a production line works. It's a huge cost to add more capacity and at a certain point it requires either moving to a new warehouse or adding a new location.

    If the hobby is stagnant or grows slowly you will never get to a point where adding that line capacity makes sense. As crap as the shortages are right now I bet when parts start to become more available companies like Stern will be in a place where they can actually add capacity to their lines.

    #74 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    The problem is not the new people, it's finding new games.

    This hasn’t been going on long though. Maybe it’s only a short term thing, but if it’s not someone will fill the demand as long as there is money to be made. Maybe stern maybe someone new. Several others have already tried, they just sucked.

    #75 4 months ago

    Sounds like OP had a taste of lower prices when he first got into the hobby. He is now mad that prices have gone up and needs someone to blame. More people = more pinball. Why would anyone want to go back to the early 2000s?

    #76 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    The problem is not the new people, it's finding new games.

    Agreed. I also think things will even out as time goes on. The price increases we are seeing in the hobby are across all industries, not just pinball manufacturers. Cars, boats, building homes, food etc... Once supplies increase, prices on all goods will drop. Most people not having any ability to wait patiently is a huge issue. Lol

    #77 4 months ago

    Look at the bright side . When we die our wives will have a high priced collection to sell off . Not the case for lots of hobbies as collecting generation passes on with no interest from newbies

    #78 4 months ago
    Quoted from radium:

    I hate koalas cuz they eat all the eucalyptus leaves and I might want some of those.

    Oi , leave the koalas out of it , they're having a hard enough time as it is , let's just stick to big boobs

    #79 4 months ago

    Square dancing is dead? Who knew?

    -1
    #80 4 months ago

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting! So let me clarify a few things, so that no one can misunderstand.

    1) I'm happy that the hobby is growing, and I hope it continues to grow. I have no desire to "return to the good ole days of the 90s" nor for things to return to the pricing and supply of the early 2000s.

    2) My main point is that from a supply and demand perspective, the rapid growth we've had in the last 18 months isn't really very healthy. The demand for new and old pins is way, way up, but the supply is not. So prices have gone through the roof, and I don't know how anyone can say that's a good thing. I don't know how anyone can look at the LE-flipping, the sharktank feeding-frenzy that takes place every time a new pin is released, and the massive prices some people are willing to pay for what amount to mediocre games, and say that it's a positive development.

    3) I'm not taking any of this very seriously at all, and I'm NOT mad! I'm actually generally a pretty happy and easy-going guy. I'm also not "locking my games away". We've got a decent little pinball co-op here in Sioux Falls, called The Pinball Room. We route games mainly so that the public can get a chance to play them, we help each other out, and we host leagues and tournaments. In the last year, I've put an AFMr, an Oktoberfest, a Beatles, a Paragon, a Twilight Zone, and a Stern Spiderman out on location for play. I try to mainly focus on slightly more obscure games that people don't often see on location, or just games that are really in demand and hard to find.

    4) I don't want to push anyone out or away from this hobby, and I want everyone to feel welcome. Whether you've been owning pins for 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months, I'm happy to meet you and I'm glad that you're here.

    5) I've all ready addressed the fact that I myself am pretty new to owning games, compared to many of you, but let me address it again. I have fixed dozens of pinball machines for people with no ability to do so themselves. Many more machines are now being played and enjoyed because of me. Also, I've dug up and found several totally dead pinball machines. These weren't projects listed for sale, but just broken games that had been sitting for years. I did the detective work, bought them, cleaned them up, got them working, and put them back out on the market. So from a net-supply perspective, I have ADDED games to the pinball supply pool. Not decreased it. And so if a new pinball buyer does the same, then they are a clear benefit to the hobby, and to the pinball supply.

    6) I fully recognize all the benefits that new blood brings to the hobby. I listed several of them in my OP. And I don't want the new blood to go away. I would just like the supply and demand to balance out a bit more. And that can't happen with the exponential growth we're seeing in new pinball buyers.

    #81 4 months ago

    Can we all just agree that the majority of the flippers, price jackers, and resellers are based out of CA or FL?
    *looks at recent IL postings , yeah.. we're not helping things either...

    #82 4 months ago

    Costs are up. Prices are up. Demand is up. Prices up further. That leads to more shortages and more pinflation.

    $8500 Royal Rumbles. $20,000 Stern Premiums.

    Everything sucks. 2022 sucks.

    #83 4 months ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    Costs are up. Prices are up. Demand is up. Prices up further. That leads to more shortages and more pinflation.
    $8500 Royal Rumbles. $20,000 Stern Premiums.
    Everything sucks. 2022 sucks.

    Happy New Year! Remind me to invite you to my next party.

    A couple of thoughts:

    If people had the gatekeeper attitude 10 years ago, I wouldn't be here (and neither would many of you).

    And the prices are in large part the result of flippers here. If you want to flip something, sell concert tickets or buy stocks. There are plenty of opportunities in both areas to make money. This is a niche hobby and flipping deprives the true fans of getting a dream theme at MSRP because you're only concerned with padding your pocket. Yes, I'm a capitalist...but there are limits to my empathy when it comes to ways to make money.

    #84 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting! So let me clarify a few things, so that no one can misunderstand.
    1) I'm happy that the hobby is growing, and I hope it continues to grow. I have no desire to "return to the good ole days of the 90s" nor for things to return to the pricing and supply of the early 2000s.
    2) My main point is that from a supply and demand perspective, the rapid growth we've had in the last 18 months isn't really very healthy. The demand for new and old pins is way, way up, but the supply is not. So prices have gone through the roof, and I don't know how anyone can say that's a good thing. I don't know how anyone can look at the LE-flipping, the sharktank feeding-frenzy that takes place every time a new pin is released, and the massive prices some people are willing to pay for what amount to mediocre games, and say that it's a positive development.
    3) I'm not taking any of this very seriously at all, and I'm NOT mad! I'm actually generally a pretty happy and easy-going guy. I'm also not "locking my games away". We've got a decent little pinball co-op here in Sioux Falls, called The Pinball Room. We route games mainly so that the public can get a chance to play them, we help each other out, and we host leagues and tournaments. In the last year, I've put an AFMr, an Oktoberfest, a Beatles, a Paragon, a Twilight Zone, and a Stern Spiderman out on location for play. I try to mainly focus on slightly more obscure games that people don't often see on location, or just games that are really in demand and hard to find.
    4) I don't want to push anyone out or away from this hobby, and I want everyone to feel welcome. Whether you've been owning pins for 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months, I'm happy to meet you and I'm glad that you're here.
    5) I've all ready addressed the fact that I myself am pretty new to owning games, compared to many of you, but let me address it again. I have fixed dozens of pinball machines for people with no ability to do so themselves. Many more machines are now being played and enjoyed because of me. Also, I've dug up and found several totally dead pinball machines. These weren't projects listed for sale, but just broken games that had been sitting for years. I did the detective work, bought them, cleaned them up, got them working, and put them back out on the market. So from a net-supply perspective, I have ADDED games to the pinball supply pool. Not decreased it. And so if a new pinball buyer does the same, then they are a clear benefit to the hobby, and to the pinball supply.
    6) I fully recognize all the benefits that new blood brings to the hobby. I listed several of them in my OP. And I don't want the new blood to go away. I would just like the supply and demand to balance out a bit more. And that can't happen with the exponential growth we're seeing in new pinball buyers.

    I didn't take your original post personally. I think we all want pinball stick around and adding people to the hobby is a good thing. I think it could have been worded differently. "How can we resolve the supply issues for all the new people that are coming in to the hobby?"

    13
    #85 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting!

    Yeah who would of thought you would get negative reaction from a thread titled "So I'm gonna say it...new people getting into the hobby is BAD!"

    #86 4 months ago

    The more in the hobby the better! I buy games, like the rest of us here, and I don’t have a problem with the escalating prices if it means there’s more interest in our hobby. That means more manufacturers giving us a greater variety of content. And if we want a game that has risen in price we can sell one of our other games (that has also risen in price) to pay for it. Younger people (and more people) in the hobby ensures it will last well into the future.

    #87 4 months ago
    Quoted from greeneye:

    Vinyl is as bad if not worse than pinball as far as prices going up and difficulty in finding deals

    Have you ever tried to buy a Hotwheels treasure hunt ? The hobby has been overpriced and overpopulated for over 20 years . The new stuff is kinda cheap and you have to guess what is going to be popular in 10 years. Every once in a while you get lucky and buy something good because you liked it and it turned out to increase in value by 400%

    #88 4 months ago

    It's not the noobs, its the ever-increasing "pinball lovers" that really are nothing more than speculators who buy games only to resell them at profit. Seriously, you can't even get in line for an LE for games that aren't even made yet if you haven't greased the skids. Why? Not because the games are so desirable, but because they are limited and the easiest to profit off of. Literally look at all of the NIB recent releases - Turtles, Godzilla, Rush - that are littering the For Sale forum. These are folks that bought them only to immediately resell them. Profiteering at it's finest. And it only works if people will buy it, which clearly many of you will.

    #89 4 months ago
    Quoted from the9gman:

    Have you ever tried to buy a Hotwheels treasure hunt ? The hobby has been overpriced and overpopulated for over 20 years . The new stuff is kinda cheap and you have to guess what is going to be popular in 10 years. Every once in a while you get lucky and buy something good because you liked it and it turned out to increase in value by 400%

    I used to buy Simpsons collectible figures .
    Mr Burns was worth $500 , and then because they became popular they remade him .
    And guess what , he was no longer worth $500 .
    After that I realised if you want to invest your money , buy realestate , gold or shares , other than that , just by stuff you like and use it .

    #90 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting! So let me clarify a few things, so that no one can misunderstand.
    1) I'm happy that the hobby is growing, and I hope it continues to grow. I have no desire to "return to the good ole days of the 90s" nor for things to return to the pricing and supply of the early 2000s.
    2) My main point is that from a supply and demand perspective, the rapid growth we've had in the last 18 months isn't really very healthy. The demand for new and old pins is way, way up, but the supply is not. So prices have gone through the roof, and I don't know how anyone can say that's a good thing. I don't know how anyone can look at the LE-flipping, the sharktank feeding-frenzy that takes place every time a new pin is released, and the massive prices some people are willing to pay for what amount to mediocre games, and say that it's a positive development.
    3) I'm not taking any of this very seriously at all, and I'm NOT mad! I'm actually generally a pretty happy and easy-going guy. I'm also not "locking my games away". We've got a decent little pinball co-op here in Sioux Falls, called The Pinball Room. We route games mainly so that the public can get a chance to play them, we help each other out, and we host leagues and tournaments. In the last year, I've put an AFMr, an Oktoberfest, a Beatles, a Paragon, a Twilight Zone, and a Stern Spiderman out on location for play. I try to mainly focus on slightly more obscure games that people don't often see on location, or just games that are really in demand and hard to find.
    4) I don't want to push anyone out or away from this hobby, and I want everyone to feel welcome. Whether you've been owning pins for 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months, I'm happy to meet you and I'm glad that you're here.
    5) I've all ready addressed the fact that I myself am pretty new to owning games, compared to many of you, but let me address it again. I have fixed dozens of pinball machines for people with no ability to do so themselves. Many more machines are now being played and enjoyed because of me. Also, I've dug up and found several totally dead pinball machines. These weren't projects listed for sale, but just broken games that had been sitting for years. I did the detective work, bought them, cleaned them up, got them working, and put them back out on the market. So from a net-supply perspective, I have ADDED games to the pinball supply pool. Not decreased it. And so if a new pinball buyer does the same, then they are a clear benefit to the hobby, and to the pinball supply.
    6) I fully recognize all the benefits that new blood brings to the hobby. I listed several of them in my OP. And I don't want the new blood to go away. I would just like the supply and demand to balance out a bit more. And that can't happen with the exponential growth we're seeing in new pinball buyers.

    Screen_Shot_2020-07-24_at_11.33.38_AM (resized).jpg
    #91 4 months ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    It's not the noobs, its the ever-increasing "pinball lovers" that really are nothing more than speculators who buy games only to resell them at profit. Seriously, you can't even get in line for an LE for games that aren't even made yet if you haven't greased the skids. Why? Not because the games are so desirable, but because they are limited and the easiest to profit off of. Literally look at all of the NIB recent releases - Turtles, Godzilla, Rush - that are littering the For Sale forum. These are folks that bought them only to immediately resell them. Profiteering at it's finest. And it only works if people will buy it, which clearly many of you will.

    I think this is an overlooked point. I'm one of those horrible new people to this hobby and I'm amazed at how many people have a dozen or more pins and have a tiny amount of plays on them. Also how many people buy machines to just try a few times and sell.
    Are they really helping the hobby or are they just participating in the flip? you even see people selling their spots with distributors or getting games NIB just to hold for a year and sell when they know the price will be higher.

    I got my first machine a few months ago and I've already put more plays on it than the previous two owners combined did in 4 years. So I don't think the newness of a person is a good indication of their impact on the market.

    And for the record I do not begrudge the people doing what I described above. If I had the money I could see myself buying every new pin that interests me a tiny bit and then selling it if it doesn't click. I just think those people are having a larger affect on the market than us noobs who buy a machine and play the hell out of it since it's a novel thing to us.

    #92 4 months ago
    Quoted from Anony:

    I think this is an overlooked point. I'm one of those horrible new people to this hobby and I'm amazed at how many people have a dozen or more pins and have a tiny amount of plays on them. Also how many people buy machines to just try a few times and sell.
    People are selling machines with a dozen plays on them. Are they really helping the hobby or are they just participating in the flip? you even see people selling their spots with distributors or getting games NIB just to hold for a year and sell when they know the price will be higher.
    I got my first machine a few months ago and I've already put more plays on it than the previous two owners combined did in 4 years. So I don't think the newness of a person is a good indication of their impact on the market.
    And for the record I do not begrudge the people doing what I described above. If I had the money I could see myself buying every new pin that interests me a tiny bit and then selling it if it doesn't click. I just think those people are having a larger affect on the market than us noobs who buy a machine and play the hell out of it since it's a novel thing to us.

    You own one pin. When you go to play pinball at home, you play that one and only that one. Someone that has a dozen pins can play each less because of the variety. Also if you want to purchase a NIB game at release, you are basically buying a game you have never played before. Some people get a NIB game, play it and don't like it as much as they thought they would...or decide they want a different trim level. They see that they can make some profit because there is a subset of people in our hobby that will buy games no matter the markup. Just saying there are other reasons why games sell with lower plays/less time of ownership.

    #93 4 months ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    You own one pin. When you go to play pinball at home, you play that one and only that one. Someone that has a dozen pins can play each less because of the variety. Also if you want to purchase a NIB game at release, you are basically buying a game you have never played before. Some people get a NIB game, play it and don't like it as much as they thought they would...or decide they want a different trim level. They see that they can make some profit because there is a subset of people in our hobby that will buy games no matter the markup. Just saying there are other reasons why games sell with lower plays/less time of ownership.

    Yeah that makes sense, there's no one size fits all explanation.
    I have other arcade machines I split my time between. I play DDR and Golden Tee at least twice a week and still somehow have put more games on my pin in three months than the previous two owners did in 3 years. (average game time is probably a lot shorter though to be honest)

    I think the ones that get me are the machines that are at least a few months old and only have a few dozen plays on them. That says to me that they didn't really buy it to play. Of course there's the chance that they bought it and just didn't like it that much but I think that also speaks to the fact that they know they can flip it easily and lose nothing or make a profit.

    Anyways like I said, I'd probably do the same if it was economically feasible... sounds like fun to be able to try every new machine that comes out.

    #94 4 months ago
    Quoted from Anony:

    Yeah that makes sense, there's no one size fits all explanation.
    I have other arcade machines I split my time between. I play DDR and Golden Tee at least twice a week and still somehow have put more games on my pin in three months than the previous two owners did in 3 years.
    I think the ones that get me are the machines that are at least a few months old and only have a few dozen plays on them. That says to me that they didn't really buy it to play. Of course there's the chance that they bought it and just didn't like it that much but I think that also speaks to the fact that they know they can flip it easily and lose nothing or make a profit.
    Anyways like I said, I'd probably do the same if it was economically feasible... sounds like fun to be able to try every new machine that comes out.

    I will say the low plays sellers were around even before this frenzy. Some people buy a game more for show than for play. For me, I need at least 100 plays to know if I like a game or not.

    #95 4 months ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    You own one pin. When you go to play pinball at home, you play that one and only that one. Someone that has a dozen pins can play each less because of the variety. Also if you want to purchase a NIB game at release, you are basically buying a game you have never played before. Some people get a NIB game, play it and don't like it as much as they thought they would...or decide they want a different trim level. They see that they can make some profit because there is a subset of people in our hobby that will buy games no matter the markup. Just saying there are other reasons why games sell with lower plays/less time of ownership.

    I have 10 pins at home and picked up a Godzilla Pro 2.5 weeks ago and already have 250 plays on it myself. There's probably another 150 games put on by friends and family. If someone buys a pin and plays it only 25 times they aren't really a pinball player and bought it for other reasons.

    #96 4 months ago

    I do understand what the OP is saying.

    The health of the hobby seems good, but the influx of new blood could be temporary and in the moment seems to have driven prices to an all new level. Yes, it does allow for many to trade up by selling your older collection, but eventually you will be priced out of the hobby.

    The increase over the past 2 years has been crazy! The idea that an avid hobbyist that has been collecting for decades, decides to want to breakdown and buy their first NIB has to pay a 4-5k premium is a joke!

    It's a race to the top as far as the major manufacturers are concerned. They're not seeing any sign of what people won't pay, therefore, they just keep increasing.

    Quality not quantity, meaning that more people coming into the hobby isn't necessarily good. I have a friend that buys any type of collectable and makes a living selling online. He could care less about the overall health or future of a hobby, so when his meal ticket for that is over he'll move on to something else. What's left behind is a market that's been driven through the roof and the hobbyist no longer collecting/buying because it became too expensive.

    As far as operators are concerned...forget it, I have no idea how they can make it with the current price levels!

    My $.02.

    #97 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    gonna say it...new people getting into the hobby is BAD!

    I see it as all positives: More companies are making games now. Stern moved into a larger building with 2 assembly lines. More attendance at pinball shows and places with pinball machines.

    #98 4 months ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting! So let me clarify a few things, so that no one can misunderstand.
    1) I'm happy that the hobby is growing, and I hope it continues to grow. I have no desire to "return to the good ole days of the 90s" nor for things to return to the pricing and supply of the early 2000s.
    2) My main point is that from a supply and demand perspective, the rapid growth we've had in the last 18 months isn't really very healthy. The demand for new and old pins is way, way up, but the supply is not. So prices have gone through the roof, and I don't know how anyone can say that's a good thing. I don't know how anyone can look at the LE-flipping, the sharktank feeding-frenzy that takes place every time a new pin is released, and the massive prices some people are willing to pay for what amount to mediocre games, and say that it's a positive development.
    3) I'm not taking any of this very seriously at all, and I'm NOT mad! I'm actually generally a pretty happy and easy-going guy. I'm also not "locking my games away". We've got a decent little pinball co-op here in Sioux Falls, called The Pinball Room. We route games mainly so that the public can get a chance to play them, we help each other out, and we host leagues and tournaments. In the last year, I've put an AFMr, an Oktoberfest, a Beatles, a Paragon, a Twilight Zone, and a Stern Spiderman out on location for play. I try to mainly focus on slightly more obscure games that people don't often see on location, or just games that are really in demand and hard to find.
    4) I don't want to push anyone out or away from this hobby, and I want everyone to feel welcome. Whether you've been owning pins for 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months, I'm happy to meet you and I'm glad that you're here.
    5) I've all ready addressed the fact that I myself am pretty new to owning games, compared to many of you, but let me address it again. I have fixed dozens of pinball machines for people with no ability to do so themselves. Many more machines are now being played and enjoyed because of me. Also, I've dug up and found several totally dead pinball machines. These weren't projects listed for sale, but just broken games that had been sitting for years. I did the detective work, bought them, cleaned them up, got them working, and put them back out on the market. So from a net-supply perspective, I have ADDED games to the pinball supply pool. Not decreased it. And so if a new pinball buyer does the same, then they are a clear benefit to the hobby, and to the pinball supply.
    6) I fully recognize all the benefits that new blood brings to the hobby. I listed several of them in my OP. And I don't want the new blood to go away. I would just like the supply and demand to balance out a bit more. And that can't happen with the exponential growth we're seeing in new pinball buyers.

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    #99 4 months ago

    OP is wrong. new players means more love for pinball. that's a good thing, obviously. I'm stoked that MORE locations are offering pinball because of the resurgence. It's awesome to drop coins at more and more bars and locations, because we can't buy every game, and to have such access is an absolute pleasure and privilege.

    #100 4 months ago
    Quoted from Luk3:

    I read something about Jersey Jack... Supposedly he serviced pinballs but there was one manufacturer (Stern) who was slow as hell to release pinballs so he had less and less work until he made his own pinball company.

    Where did you read this? It’s absolutely false.

    Jack’s business was selling games to home collectors. Stern tried to increase sales to operators & get more location players by making games simpler to service & understand, with short ball times & less deep rules. Iron Man, Tron, Big Buck, Avatar & Rolling Stones came from this era. Jack’s customers didn’t buy these games - they wanted full featured & deep games. So, he decided to start JJP to make a product that his customers wanted, but didn’t exist.

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