(Topic ID: 307958)

So I'm gonna say it...new people getting into the hobby...has some downsides!

By DakotaMike

2 years ago


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    There are 233 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    -39
    #1 2 years ago

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.

    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.

    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.

    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.

    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    EDIT for Clarity:

    Wow, I forgot how much Pinside is like Twitter these days. Some of you are getting very personal, and some you are doing a lot of projecting! So let me clarify a few things, so that no one can misunderstand.

    1) I'm happy that the hobby is growing, and I hope it continues to grow. I have no desire to "return to the good ole days of the 90s" nor for things to return to the pricing and supply of the early 2000s.

    2) My main point is that from a supply and demand perspective, the rapid growth we've had in the last 18 months isn't really very healthy. The demand for new and old pins is way, way up, but the supply is not. So prices have gone through the roof, and I don't know how anyone can say that's a good thing. I don't know how anyone can look at the LE-flipping, the sharktank feeding-frenzy that takes place every time a new pin is released, and the massive prices some people are willing to pay for what amount to mediocre games, and say that it's a good thing.

    3) I'm not taking any of this very seriously at all, and I'm NOT mad! I'm actually generally a pretty happy and easy-going guy. I'm also not "locking my games away". We've got a decent little pinball co-op here in Sioux Falls, called The Pinball Room. We route games mainly so that the public can get a chance to play them, we help each other out, and we host leagues and tournaments. In the last year, I've put an AFMr, an Oktoberfest, a Beatles, a Paragon, a Twilight Zone, and a Stern Spiderman out on location for play. I try to mainly focus on slightly more obscure games that people don't often see on location, or just games that are really in demand and hard to find.

    4) I don't want to push anyone out or away from this hobby, and I want everyone to feel welcome. Whether you've been owning pins for 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months, I'm happy to meet you and I'm glad that you're here.

    5) I've all ready addressed the fact that I myself am pretty new to owning games, compared to many of you, but let me address it again. I have fixed dozens of pinball machines for people with no ability to do so themselves. Many more machines are now being played and enjoyed because of me. Also, I've dug up and found several totally dead pinball machines. These weren't projects listed for sale, but just broken games that had been sitting for years. I did the detective work, bought them, cleaned them up, got them working, and put them back out on the market. So from a net-supply perspective, I have ADDED games to the pinball supply pool. Not decreased it. And so if a new pinball buyer does the same, then they are a clear benefit to the hobby, and to the pinball supply.

    6) I fully recognize all the benefits that new blood brings to the hobby. I listed several of them in my OP. And I don't want the new blood to go away. I would just like the supply and demand to balance out a bit more. And that can't happen with the exponential growth we're seeing in new pinball buyers.

    58
    #2 2 years ago

    Too late dude. The cows are out of the barn! The toothpaste is outta the tube!!

    Your hatred of noobs cannot fix anything now. Day late and a dollar short. Where was your righteous loathing back when it could have mattered?

    All you can do now is a hope for a bubble burst.

    I wonder if pinside has any thoughts on that?

    #3 2 years ago

    The train has left the station!
    The ants go marching one by one, hurrah, hurrah!
    You missed the bus!
    Elvis has left the building!

    Personally, I am glad there is new blood so manufacturers can still be making machines.

    That is like saying I think too many people are eating chocolate candy and wish they would stop so I can buy it all for myself

    32
    #4 2 years ago

    I’m a long time player but fairly new to the hobby (6 years), but one of my favorite parts of the hobby is getting people stoked about playing these games. I think it’s great when people get into the hobby after playing at my house, and I have at least 5 new buddies in the hobby as a direct result of my basement. We have parties and once in a while someone comes over to talk with that look….uh oh he/she’s hooked. I think it’s great for the hobby personally and am willing to wait/pay a little more for the health of the hobby.

    29
    #5 2 years ago

    Nobody likes pinball anymore. It’s too popular.

    21
    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.
    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.
    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.
    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.
    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    Odd to wish for this as you own a pin repair shop

    #7 2 years ago

    Adding that I am having more friends come over who want to play pinball who did not even now it still existed and seeing the look of joy on their faces is priceless. Very grateful that I was able to reconnect to games from my youth and being able to enjoy the new frontier of games that are coming out.

    Let's not be like the people that killed square dancing as a hobby. The square dancers themselves. They formed cliques, did not want to get young blood in and got what they wanted - a nice comfort zone and a hobby that is on the down swing instead of the up swing (or allemande left ).

    12
    #8 2 years ago

    The only point your making is more people getting into the hobby has made it a more expensive hobby for us. Things being harder to get right now also have to deal with supply shortages.

    The more people that get in the hobby the better. More companies will get into the pinball game and possibly create competition. More IP holders of note will want to work with pinball companies. More young people will discover pinball and want to become a designer someday.

    It sucks things are more expensive, but its not just pinball. Bring on all the new folks. Id love to have more pinball friends.

    28
    #9 2 years ago

    From a profile that's less than 3 years old, I'm unclear on what constitutes new people?

    14
    #10 2 years ago

    I’m also a long time vinyl guy which has, as everyone knows, had a crazy resurgence over the last few years. Same deal. Hobbyists are pissed about not being able to find anything anymore and the prices have gone through the roof for used records and turntables. The plus side is that pretty much every new release is coming out on vinyl which, although expensive, is very good news for guys with turntables.

    #11 2 years ago

    “Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded” Yogi

    #12 2 years ago

    There is nothing like the joy of takeing an old busted up machine and getting it playing again ....new people can't do that yet so there are still deals to be had ....just means you gotta change your aproach and treat it more like bitcoin mining ........after all it's just one hobby among many

    #13 2 years ago

    I would say that this insane resurgence is good for the hobby.
    ESPECIALLY OLDER MACHINES

    There has always been a finite number of classic machines. Now at this point parting them out is INSANE. Prices are rising so fast that you can make the same if not more by just selling those projects that would have been parted out 10 years ago.
    If someone parts out a Cheetah or Quicksilver or TZ in this market, they clearly don’t care about money, because total garbage-pile machines are selling for 5-6k alone.

    #14 2 years ago

    Interesting that the pinball repair guy is complaining about new people getting into the hobby.

    #15 2 years ago

    Hate to break to you but it’s not just pinball. This is happening in almost all luxury or collectible goods markets.

    #16 2 years ago

    Pinball is The Broccoli Tree. Meaning we destroy the things we love. We change and sometimes destroy those things by loving them, and wanting to share them with the world. I love pinball and it is always more fun with people.
    More people make for more pin companies, more innovation, more part makers, more restoring of old school pins, and the greater need associated more people give birth to some amazing small businesses right here on Pinside that make parts and mods for our pinside. Even South Park and Baywatch pins need love! I think more is better…but I only recently had money to start buying pins. Anyway good night.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from SirMachismo:

    more people give birth to some amazing small businesses right here on Pinside

    and I would add that making your own machine is going to get easier in the future because of it. I see the home brew end picking up steam in the future and I would guess we will see some pretty interesting machines.

    #18 2 years ago

    How about all the people who own 30 or 40 pins? Aren’t they driving up prices and demand? How about the flippers who buy games to sell them before they even take delivery of them?

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.
    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.
    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.
    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.
    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    Pinball is still boutique.

    Enough new people get in to the hobby and economies of scale can kick in for the manufacturers increasing profits and reducing upward price pressure.

    Enough new people get in to the hobby and demand can drive increased competition, downward price pressure and increased production capacity.

    Enough new people get in to the hobby and production and supply of replacement components can increase reducing the cost of parts and increase their accessibility.

    Enough new people get in to the hobby and the more incentivized skilled individuals will be to service and maintain pins as a profession.

    And if Enough new people get in to the hobby and none of the above happens I can sell my collection in 15 years or so for
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #20 2 years ago

    It’s great that all these people are getting into pins. Sure prices keep going up but the new pins are amazing. And all the buyers are making it possible for pins to get better. We’re in the middle of a golden age. If anything, the higher prices are are making us more careful what we buy. Instead of going after any good buy and racing across town to get the pin first, I’m carefully selecting the pins I want. And with the higher prices, I could sell 1 or 2 pins to get a nib. 5 years ago, I would have to sell half my collection to get a nib.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinball2020:

    Let's not be like the people that killed square dancing as a hobby. The square dancers themselves. They formed cliques, did not want to get young blood in and got what they wanted - a nice comfort zone and a hobby that is on the down swing instead of the up swing (or allemande left ).

    Shhhh, about square dancing I don’t need more people filling up my dance hall… Promenade!

    22
    #22 2 years ago

    Reminds me of the movie Gangs of New York. The resident Irish unhappy with all the new Irish emigrating into the country.

    Many years later the country survived.

    I'm sure pinball will too.

    LTG : )

    20
    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Kwaheltrut:

    From a profile that's less than 3 years old, I'm unclear on what constitutes new people?

    newpople (resized).jpgnewpople (resized).jpg
    #24 2 years ago

    I knew this thread would be fun.

    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    Odd to wish for this as you own a pin repair shop

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    Interesting that the pinball repair guy is complaining about new people getting into the hobby.

    I just repair pins as a side hustle. Mainly to get experience working on and playing a variety of games that I wouldn't normally get to, and to help fund the habit a bit. And most of my clients are guys who have one pin in their man-cave, that they bought 20+years ago when operators were fire sale-ing them. Not much need for my help on brand new Sterns.

    Quoted from Kwaheltrut:

    From a profile that's less than 3 years old, I'm unclear on what constitutes new people?

    Well, just because my Pinside profile is 2 years old, doesn't mean that's when I got into the hobby. But I agree to an extent I am a new guy, but I'm not hating on newbs anyway. I'm bemoaning the massive influx of buyers that have entered the hobby recently, mainly since the pandemic started. I keep hearing people say it's good for the hobby, but it hasn't been good for any of our wallets, unless you all ready owned a big collection.

    Also, I've brought several pins back to life that sat broken down for years. And would probably still be sitting if I hadn't fixed them up and gotten them running. And I only have room for 2 pins at a time anyway, so in my case I've added more pins to the buying pool than I'm currently taking up. So you're welcome!

    Quoted from JackG:

    It’s great that all these people are getting into pins. Sure prices keep going up but the new pins are amazing. And all the buyers are making it possible for pins to get better. We’re in the middle of a golden age.

    Pins were great 2 years ago too though. Hello DP, hello JP. I'm not sure new buyers are why pins are so great these days, I'd say it's more the new designers and coders we've gotten recently. Elwin, Eric, Tim Sexton, Raymond Davidson, ect.

    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    Pinball is still boutique.
    Enough new people get in to the hobby and economies of scale can kick in for the manufacturers increasing profits and reducing upward price pressure.
    Enough new people get in to the hobby and demand can drive increased competition, downward price pressure and increased production capacity.
    Enough new people get in to the hobby and production and supply of replacement components can increase reducing the cost of parts and increase their accessibility.
    And if Enough new people get in to the hobby and none of the above happens I can sell my collection in 15 years or so for
    [quoted image]

    Quoted from LTG:

    Reminds me of the movie Gangs of New York. The resident Irish unhappy with all the new Irish emigrating into the country.
    Many years later the country survived.
    I'm sure pinball will too.
    LTG : )

    Oh yeah, long term all the new pinball people will be good for the hobby. But only if manufacturers are actually able to increase production, and only if all the new pinball companies actually prove themselves reliable, solvent, and able to produce pins at scale. Right now, I wish the speed of the pinball hobbiyst growth would slow down though. The market is too nuts right now.

    #25 2 years ago

    Don't blame new people coming in but the like, 3(?), manufacturers who have done nothing to up production.

    Was interested if any engineering jobs at Stern... No career page or nothing on their site. Doesn't seem like they have any interest in keeping up with demand.

    I read something about Jersey Jack... Supposedly he serviced pinballs but there was one manufacturer (Stern) who was slow as hell to release pinballs so he had less and less work until he made his own pinball company.

    So like yeah... Never knew a market could be dominated by so few companies with such poor and unstructured releases/manufacturing.

    Though in general, I agree. New people coming in who are just transient or trying to be cool or those with money to just drop for the sake of it (not passionate or even appreciative)... Totally lame.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.
    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.
    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.
    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.
    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    You sound like a selfish person.

    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    I knew this thread would be fun.

    I just repair pins as a side hustle. Mainly to get experience working on and playing a variety of games that I wouldn't normally get to, and to help fund the habit a bit. And most of my clients are guys who have one pin in their man-cave, that they bought 20+years ago when operators were fire sale-ing them. Not much need for my help on brand new Sterns.

    Well, just because my Pinside profile is 2 years old, doesn't mean that's when I got into the hobby. But I agree to an extent I am a new guy, but I'm not hating on newbs anyway. I'm bemoaning the massive influx of buyers that have entered the hobby recently, mainly since the pandemic started. I keep hearing people say it's good for the hobby, but it hasn't been good for any of our wallets, unless you all ready owned a big collection.
    Also, I've brought several pins back to life that sat broken down for years. And would probably still be sitting if I hadn't fixed them up and gotten them running. And I only have room for 2 pins at a time anyway, so in my case I've added more pins to the buying pool than I'm currently taking up. So you're welcome!

    Pins were great 2 years ago too though. Hello DP, hello JP. I'm not sure new buyers are why pins are so great these days, I'd say it's more the new designers and coders we've gotten recently. Elwin, Eric, Tim Sexton, Raymond Davidson, ect.

    Oh yeah, long term all the new pinball people will be good for the hobby. But only if manufacturers are actually able to increase production, and only if all the new pinball companies actually prove themselves reliable, solvent, and able to produce pins at scale. Right now, I wish the speed of the pinball hobbiyst growth would slow down though. The market is too nuts right now.

    Yep. Still selfish.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    Hate to break to you but it’s not just pinball. This is happening in almost all luxury or collectible goods markets.

    Quoted from Chisox:

    I’m also a long time vinyl guy which has, as everyone knows, had a crazy resurgence over the last few years. Same deal. Hobbyists are pissed about not being able to find anything anymore and the prices have gone through the roof for used records and turntables. The plus side is that pretty much every new release is coming out on vinyl which, although expensive, is very good news for guys with turntables.

    These are true. Aside from pinball, I'm also interested in vinyl, retro video games, and cars, but the markets for all of these things have gone through the roof.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    Interesting that the pinball repair guy is complaining about new people getting into the hobby.

    Yup. I blame the people like the OP

    #30 2 years ago

    “Pins were great 2 years ago too though. Hello DP, hello JP. I'm not sure new buyers are why pins are so great these days, I'd say it's more the new designers and coders we've gotten recently. Elwin, Eric, Tim Sexton, Raymond Davidson, ect.”

    Pins from 2 years ago are new pins. And anyone who started buying pins during the pandemic is relatively new. Don’t hate. There’s plenty of room for new people. Including you.

    14
    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now.

    Too late. Too bad. It is now inevitable. And the blame falls squarely on one person. This guy: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-s-time-to-make-pinball-mainstream

    #32 2 years ago

    It's bad for the prices but good for everything else so I still like the increased popularity of pins.

    Spare parts are so much easier to find nowadays due to pinball being popular and actually being a lucrative business now. I rather have expensive but 100% working games than old crummy pins worth almost nothing with missing unobtainable key parts making them unplayable.

    Popularity is good fort the hobby overall.

    #33 2 years ago

    I'd rather have high prices and a thriving marketplace than low priced machines and no parts to repair them. I dumped all my machines back in 2005 because the market was terrible at the time.

    #34 2 years ago

    Weren't you looking for your first pin just 2 years ago?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-gorgar-1

    Kind of a dick move to steal a game from everyone that has been here longer than you don't you think? Thanks for driving the prices up for us!

    #35 2 years ago

    Everyone of us was new to pinball at one time.

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    Too late. Too bad. It is now inevitable. And the blame falls squarely on one person. This guy: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/it-s-time-to-make-pinball-mainstream

    That dude is hilarious , he didn't do much better in the Bob Saget thread .
    It's funny seeing new guys go off , without reading the room .

    IMG_20220113_233226 (resized).jpgIMG_20220113_233226 (resized).jpg
    21
    #37 2 years ago

    The more the merrier. Jump in, the waters warm.

    I don’t care if I completely get priced out and have to sell all my games. The best parts of this hobby are the people.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.
    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.
    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.
    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.
    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    What do we think? That you're selfish. I was in the hobby before you, so I could say you helped ruin it.

    #39 2 years ago

    Unfortunatley the booming hobby has attracted so many scammers lately. One FB thread about pinball has a constant stream of new to the hobby people asking about the credibility of one super deal or another. "Hey guys, is this Attack from Mars ad for $3K legit?"

    Of course the old guard has been responsible for funding scammers like DeepRoot.

    Any hobby ebbs and flows. Not everyone will stay in the hobby for the long term. Machines break and they either have the time and dedication to fix it or they sell it and try something else.

    More people in the hobby preserve the B and C titles shed by Baby Boomers retiring to Florida, which otherwise might be dumped.

    More people in the hobby expands the manufacturing base for new games from multiple companies. Higher prices allow veterans to trade up. Larger base, more economical for parts manufacturers to reproduce parts.

    I'm happy that there is more pinball on location these days.

    #40 2 years ago

    Has anyone actually quantified how popular pinball is and how much the home market has grown? I guarantee that it is still incredibly niche. I would also warn against assuming that sales for at home luxury good like pinballs or hot tubs will continue to stay high once the pandemic is beyond us. Whether that’s 1 year or 4 years from now. I’m not suggesting pinball will “crash” but rather correct its growth pattern to what it was closer to pre pandemic.

    #41 2 years ago

    This is like when people move into a neighborhood which was clear cut to create, then complain to city hall when someone wants to chop down a tree in the adjacent woods.

    #42 2 years ago

    We tried to buy a new hot tub in Sept. Now we are on a year long waiting list. Damn those new hot tub buyers!

    #43 2 years ago

    For me pinball machines have always been expensive .
    I got a JJP GNR LE but I didn't just pull $15.5k out of my back pocket .
    I was able to do that after years of buying and selling other pinballs and arcade machines .
    I could have gotten a few old a games but I felt like putting all my money into one new game and I'm loving it , and I'm not even a GNR fan

    #44 2 years ago

    I've been telling people that PINBALL SUCKS for 15 years, but people haven't been listening!!!!

    I'm gonna go to my gameroom now and get in some games, but I'm not gonna like it.

    I'm just being sarcastic and joking of course. Pinball is sorta fun.

    #45 2 years ago

    Elitist old man yells at cloud

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    I’m also a long time vinyl guy which has, as everyone knows, had a crazy resurgence over the last few years. Same deal. Hobbyists are pissed about not being able to find anything anymore and the prices have gone through the roof for used records and turntables. The plus side is that pretty much every new release is coming out on vinyl which, although expensive, is very good news for guys with turntables.

    Been collecting vinyl for years. I'm done. Back in 2015-2018 I was finding hundreds at a time. For dirt cheap. Those days are long gone. I recently gave up. Vinyl is as bad if not worse than pinball as far as prices going up and difficulty in finding deals. Too many eyes looking now

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    Enough new people get in to the hobby and economies of scale can kick in for the manufacturers increasing profits and reducing upward price pressure.

    [quoted image]

    Not sure this is happening. Been in the hobby for 7-8 years now and prices have steadily climbed and have doubled in the last year.

    #48 2 years ago

    The way I read this is as "waahh, i can't easily horde games to myself and hide them from the public. waaah!!!! whoa is me!!!! i like pinball to be elitist"

    as others have noted, there's a special irony coming from someone ho hasn't been here that long. i've been playing rabidly for 9 years. i owned two machines but couldn't afford them any more. i'm not bitter that i'm priced out of the market. but i do get pissed at people who complain about prices but then lock machines away from any kind of public play. would i like to be able to buy a medieval madness for 3K? sure. but that's not gonna happen. the only consolation is when people make their machines publicly playable. having them public stifles demand because players don't have to buy, they can play.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    For me pinball machines have always been expensive .
    I got a JJP GNR LE but I didn't just pull $15.5k out of my back pocket .
    I was able to do that after years of buying and selling other pinballs and arcade machines .
    I could have gotten a few old a games but I felt like putting all my money into one new game and I'm loving it , and I'm not even a GNR fan

    If you paid 15,500 for a gnr le you got robbed. They are 10k NIB still and sold daily

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    This might not be a popular opinion to state out loud, but I wish new people would stop getting into the pinball hobby. New blood is great for pinball locations, great for tournaments and leagues, and great for pinball shows, but it's awful for us home collectors.
    More people buying for their home just means more demand that the manufacturers can't keep up with. Stern and JJP's manufacturing capability isn't growing with the rate of new home buyers, so all these new collectors are just more competition for the limited number of Premiums, LEs, and Pros that are made. Not good for me or for you, since if you don't get in on that first run, you might be waiting months or years.
    New people in the hobby is also bad for the 2nd-hand market. There are a finite number of older pins, but a growing number of people interested in buying them. So more people in the hobby just means it's that much harder to find those classic Bally/Williams pins for sale, and that much harder to find them at good prices.
    So yeah, it's kinda awful to say it, but I don't actually want the pinball hobby to keep growing right now. I'd be happy for the location and tournament scene to grow, but once people get into playing on location or in tourneys, they almost invariably want to start owning pins at home.
    What do you guys think? I can't really see any benefit for us home collectors in the continued growth of the pinball hobby. All I see is more buying competition and higher prices. Sorry to sound like a grumpy gatekeeper, but I think it's hard to argue I'm wrong here.

    Oh no, more people are enjoying my hobby!

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