(Topic ID: 58360)

So I decided to pickup a WoZ today, 2 in fact.

By markmon

10 years ago


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There are 657 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 14.
#351 10 years ago

2NDGEN,

Thanks for the write up, that was a very interesting read especially from the viewpoint of an operator.

#352 10 years ago

The real question is when will we see WOZ on visual pinball....

#353 10 years ago
Quoted from Prmailers:

The real question is when will we see WOZ on visual pinball....

LOL I don't think you are going to see that for a longtime.

#354 10 years ago
Quoted from j69:

Well this thread got quiet real quick.

That was during the night hours in the US. Unfortunately, I suspect another round of $#!t slinging will start soon.

#355 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Seems like a pretty libelous statement there

JMO = just my opinion. He is entitled to his opinion based on past actions, and is entitled to share an opinion without the vague threat of malicious prosecution. The delays he is clearly referencing did, in fact, occur despite your repeated assurances at production schedules and target dates that were not met. You don't like the language used, surely, but he has a right to his opinion and a well documented timeline to base it upon.

-3
#356 10 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I am still wondering why everyone is mad at Markmon. I just don't see what he did here to get people lashing out at him.

Because its WoZ... WoZ is a touchy subject. The WoZ heads are here to protect and serve JJP! They will bash Stern, will bash the Stern flippers that sell for a profit, will bash Stern quality, they bash Stern for incomplete code, etc, etc, etc... but when it comes to WoZ there are no rules. You can flip them for nice profit... all good. They always have an excuse for the issues regarding WoZ. Incomplete code? ... gotta be a good excuse for that one. It goes on and on and on. If your a WoZ head you'll do anything!

WOW, another Hobbit update... It has 3 pop bumpers! Where do I send my money!

#357 10 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Because its WoZ... WoZ is a touchy subject. The WoZ heads are here to protect and serve JJP! They will bash Stern, will bash the Stern flippers that sell for a profit, will bash Stern quality, they bash Stern for incomplete code, etc, etc, etc... but when it comes to WoZ there are no rules. You can flip them for nice profit... all good. They always have an excuse for the issues regarding WoZ. Incomplete code? ... gotta be a good excuse for that one. It goes on and on and on. If your a WoZ head you'll do anything!
WOW, another Hobbit update... It has 3 pop bumpers! Where do I send my money!

Pity you.

#358 10 years ago

Salesmen and route operators are know for their integrity. Thank you for clearing things up!

#359 10 years ago

A morning batch being popped. Three pre-packs sound like a good start. And yes, I add genuine Flavocol.

IMAG4022.jpgIMAG4022.jpg

#360 10 years ago
Quoted from GAP:

Its the standard line cutting, happens everyday. I personally wouldn't put up a dime for the hobbit, when I know I can get one right when they come out 3 years from now. The fact that Jack is allowing line jumping is poor business practice.

Mike, you don't know the facts, this isn't line jumping. Mt hood swapped 5 day 1 ecle production slots with standard woz, and sold 2 of those to Markmon. The conspiracy theorists are wrong.

#361 10 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

A morning batch being popped. Three pre-packs sound like a good start. And yes, I add genuine Flavocol.

Nothing like fresh popcorn in the morning!

Now.. on with the show! Married-with-Children-popcorn.gifMarried-with-Children-popcorn.gif

#362 10 years ago

Jeez...what a bunch of crap. Don't people have anything better to do than be assholes?

shit-emoticon.gifshit-emoticon.gif

#363 10 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Very interesting take. I have no evidence that this wasn't the case. All I can tell you is, many of us paid for WoZ years ago, yet I was able to walk up and buy a couple yesterday "in stock".

I'm not sure. I never said Jack was lying. I only reported what the distributor "said". In another thread, I reported what he "said" and also gave my opinion that I thought it was probably a lie. When I was able to actually get the machines, I figured it was true. If what you point out above is true, and it may be, then it makes a bit more sense, but as a person that preordered ages ago, I don't feel any better about it. It still comes down to, "why should I pay to preorder years ahead of time when I can walk in and grab one before my preorder shows up?"

Those were day 1 orders from Mt Hood Markmon. He swapped his ECLE production positions with the 5 Woz that were delivered, 2 of which you bought. You are just trying to sling more lies, without giving the true picture, which many of us posted in the last thread where you lied. I called you out there, I'm calling you out here - but it wont matter. You seem to want to lie about all this for no reason other than to infer pre-order guys should get pissed b/c your twisted story would mean Jack is messing with us. Geez this is getting old. I'm paid in full on both Le's and have plenty of STern's in my 23 game collection. I love all pinball - why are you always trying to slam Jack with stuff you know isn't true?

#364 10 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Last week I had pinball buddies up @ Gamewarp in Orlando. They said WOZ standards were available @ the show. I really don't think this is about markmon, Pinside, and this one distributor.
Since JJP has promoted an open forum since it's inception, it's really easy to clear this issue up. How many LE's and Standards have been shipped to date? What will the mix be moving forward?
Hard data is the best way to shed light on this issue.

Jack already told us on the owners forum. Its consistent with what he's said all along, about 10% off the line, and planned in Aug and Sept runs are Woz v. 90% wozecle.

#365 10 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Because its WoZ... WoZ is a touchy subject. The WoZ heads are here to protect and serve JJP! They will bash Stern, will bash the Stern flippers that sell for a profit, will bash Stern quality, they bash Stern for incomplete code, etc, etc, etc... but when it comes to WoZ there are no rules. You can flip them for nice profit... all good. They always have an excuse for the issues regarding WoZ. Incomplete code? ... gotta be a good excuse for that one. It goes on and on and on. If your a WoZ head you'll do anything!
WOW, another Hobbit update... It has 3 pop bumpers! Where do I send my money!

Oh come on. You were here from the beginning of this thread and know very well why posters are upset, first with Jack and JJP based on what was said (cancelling orders even over it), and then with what was later learned. You can still read the original post in my quote on the first page. Markmon did the right thing and removed those parts, but that does not make this an opportunity for you to rant righteously about some villified caricature of "WOZ heads".

#366 10 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Because its WoZ... WoZ is a touchy subject. The WoZ heads are here to protect and serve JJP! They will bash Stern, will bash the Stern flippers that sell for a profit, will bash Stern quality, they bash Stern for incomplete code, etc, etc, etc... but when it comes to WoZ there are no rules. You can flip them for nice profit... all good. They always have an excuse for the issues regarding WoZ. Incomplete code? ... gotta be a good excuse for that one. It goes on and on and on. If your a WoZ head you'll do anything!
WOW, another Hobbit update... It has 3 pop bumpers! Where do I send my money!

Tony I respect you man, but when you post crap like this the respect starts to fade!
Don't do this... Many here (me included) like Stern, JJP, Williams & pinball in general.
I will go out on a limb here and say that most people are on this forum because they love pinball not because they love a particular manufacturer. I wish we could all rise above this crap!

#367 10 years ago

Yeah, the shit slinging is over, just stop posting if your only aim is to continue stirring the pot

#368 10 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

JMO = just my opinion. He is entitled to his opinion based on past actions, and is entitled to share an opinion without the vague threat of malicious prosecution. The delays he is clearly referencing did, in fact, occur despite your repeated assurances at production schedules and target dates that were not met. You don't like the language used, surely, but he has a right to his opinion and a well documented timeline to base it upon.

Reads like a statement of fact, not opinion

#369 10 years ago

Wow. I'm getting dizzy because I can see elements of truth in everyone's comments.

But for me, the overriding principles are:

(1) nLet the game speak for itself. It's clearly showing up more often.

(2) JJP is a new company and unforeseen consequences were... well... entirely foreseeable. But I haven't seen one bit of solid evidence that JJP isn't sincere about being a reputable, honest, innovative manufacturer.

(3) I'm an LE and Hobbit preorder. Paid for both in full. I have no doubt that I will get them both WHEN THE PINS ARE READY FOR PRIME TIME AND NOT BEFORE. Which is exactly how I want them. Field testing with operators was suggested by JJP lots of times, so not only am I unsurprised. I'm downright pleased and relieved that I HAVEN'T gotten my WOZ yet (now that I am 100% convinced that it is not vaporpin, and JJP wants to maintain his rep as a long term builder, so will deliver a good product).

(4) I think both 2NDGEN and markmon are speaking from the heart out of love for pinball, and I hope they bury the hatchet because I think they really are on the same team.

#370 10 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

Pretty easy solution to this 'problem'
Post an honest number of Standard VS LEs shipped and it'll either shut everyone up...or really fuel the fire.
IMHO there's only one reason why you wouldn't post these numbers

its been made public, at least to owners on our group forum. No need for Jack to have to post it on Pinside in public to "put up, or shut up". I don't get folks being so demanding, unless they have a game on order - and in that case, call the guy you ordered it from. There is no public court here - but lots of judges and jury members, apparently.

#371 10 years ago
Quoted from MrDo:

Salesmen and route operators are know for their integrity. Thank you for clearing things up!

What are YOU known for?

#372 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Reads like a statement of fact, not opinion

Then you stopped reading before the JMO. Conveniently. This is petty. Again.

#373 10 years ago
Quoted from GaryMartin:

Sure it computes!
Day one, customer 1 orders an LE, distributor 1 orders 5 LEs and 5 standards, customer 2 orders an LE.
Now in that order, six LEs have to be built and ship before they can start on number Seven for customer 2 right? If that distributor switches his LEs to standards and the factory is producing almost ten to 1 LEs, then customer 2 would get his LE faster right?

I agree Gary. more LE than woz, woz swapped for LE places, move remaining LE up b/c they are favored 9 on the line.

#374 10 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

If the biggest negative I can say about the game is the topper...you're doing pretty well in my book. I think what you have done with the game is amazing and I can't wait to see how the code is fleshed out. From past experience with Keith's games, I know I don't have anything to worry about there. I am just happy I have a couple spots locally where I can play and enjoy the game now. At our monthly tournament last Sunday, WOZ was the hit of the party. People who were seeing it for the first time really couldn't believe it. I think it is going to do extremely well at the State Fair. The visual appeal of the game is like nothing I have seen before in a pin.

So you like TSPP and LOTR toppers from Stern? Oh wait.....

#375 10 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

Jack, thanks for jumping on. A lot of this crap fest will go away if you honestly and openly clarify Markmons original post. Did this distributor just order and receive those games or was that order put in years ago and shipped acording to his place in line.
As a late LE orderer (just missed the early bird price) I am seriously bummed that I could hop up to Portland and buy one off the shelf and save the shipping costs. I would still rather have my LE than a standard, (freaking awesome looking game) but this is for me a very spendy item, THE most expensive thing I've ever bought that isn't a house or car and my first NIB pin. (My family thinks I'm nuts and with the delays has been a very sore topic aroung the house for months)
Just looking for reassurance that there is no line cutting happening and a time frame for shipping the remaining LE's.
And even with the level of crap that been happening and said lately, I'm sure everyone on Pinside is happy you are in business making games, but when you have had a game paid for that you don't have for this long and someone who just played one on location without ever hearing about it before can go buy one that same day while we are still waiting is going to cause some hating, no way round it.

The way I read Jack's reply to your concern is that distributors broke a rule by selling to non-operators. The Le's swapped on a day 1 order for standards has been beaten to death - so they weren't line jumping. But Jack can't control a distributor breaking a rule (until a future order or renewal of distributor agreement happens). Like he said, he regrets the situation, but can't control it on Woz standards - live and learn - I think Jack and Mt Hood will have some lively discussion, don't you?

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#376 10 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Because its WoZ... WoZ is a touchy subject. The WoZ heads are here to protect and serve JJP! They will bash Stern, will bash the Stern flippers that sell for a profit, will bash Stern quality, they bash Stern for incomplete code, etc, etc,etc... but when it comes to WoZ there are no rules. You can flip them for nice profit... all good. They always have an excuse for the issues regarding WoZ. Incomplete code? ... gotta be a good excuse for that one. It goes on and on and on. If your a WoZ head you'll do anything!
WOW, another Hobbit update... It has 3 pop bumpers! Where do I send my money!

Well, I bought a NIB ACDC Premium yet also have a WOZECLE on order and I'm a big supporter of JJP. People are excited about WOZ as its bringing a lot of new things to pinball, is complex, is the first wide body in 20 years and have Keith and Ted working on the code. Everyone from JJP has been on top of all issues which is great to see to the point that production games going out today are coming with changes in place. Nearly every review and impression has been positive with many people saying its the best pin they have played. Why is it that some people come off like they want JJP to fail? Its in the best interest for every fan of pinball for JJP to succeed. The game is already proven, JJP has delivered and yet some haters refuse to accept that and will continue to do so no matter what the state of the game is...kinda sad.

#377 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

I see LE games going now for $9,500 - $12,000 - private sale, eBay, whatever. Guess what - the game is not done yet.

Has anyone heard of games selling for this much?

#378 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Reads like a statement of fact, not opinion

When making promises & drumming up preorders you said a lot of things in a tone that read like a statement of fact.

#379 10 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Has anyone heard of games selling for this much?

Of course not.

-1
#380 10 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Has anyone heard of games selling for this much?

There are games listed with a BIN for that. Doesn't mean they'll sell for that much.

#381 10 years ago

MUST this shit continue???????

yawn.gifyawn.gif

#382 10 years ago
Quoted from Rabscuttle:

This is actually why in community relations we usually suggest CEOs do NOT participate in forums. It's very easy as a human to get emotional and say things that are inappropriate for a leader to say.
It's unfortunate that the whole JJP/Stern thing seems to have had a divisive effect on the community, but we look to our leaders as uniting forces, and not to feed the feelings of us vs. them.
I'm so tired of us vs. them on these forums. I don't know how you solve it, but it shouldn't BE us vs. them, and someone has to make a choice to stop that. To stop the water cooler gossip talk. I won't lie, I am shocked to see a veiled threat like this from one of our leaders. We're all humans at the end of the day, but leaders need to be professional and strategic at all times, with every word they type.
Can we all just cut it out?

Jack is speaking as a player, distributor and fellow collector - he is a regular guy, not a CEO following adivce from his PR staff. I love how Jack jumping in on a thread full of misleading assumptions, and correcting this from the source himself, now gets called out for being a little too open and blunt. Hey, the best way to cut the crap, is to call people out on it - I like the freshness of that response.

-8
#383 10 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Jack is speaking as a player, distributor and fellow collector - he is a regular guy, not a CEO following adivce from his PR staff.

Jack is ALWAYS speaking as a salesman! And one you'd wish would stop talking and start producing.

-1
#384 10 years ago
Quoted from MrDo:

Salesmen and route operators are know for their integrity. Thank you for clearing things up!

As in any profession, some are, some aren't -- no need for any disparaging remarks. If you have a couple of minutes, please read this:

http://msbusiness.com/blog/2006/06/12/definition-of-salespeople-they-make-the-world-go-round/

#385 10 years ago

Trying to figure out why Danzig voted down so many random posts in this thread...?

#386 10 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Jack is ALWAYS speaking as a salesman! And one you'd wish would stop talking and start producing.

Games are being produced and being shipped and have been for several months.

-18
#387 10 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Jack is ALWAYS speaking as a salesman! And one you'd wish would stop talking and start producing.

He's one smooth talking g#^**. All sizzle very very little sausage so far. I'd be reluctant to buy insulin from jack old mate if I was a diabetic.

Post edited by absocountry2 : racial slur edited

#388 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

MUST this shit continue???????

Will you please stop cluttering the adults' conversation with your nonsense pictures? Can I find you a copy of Highlights magazine or something to read?

#389 10 years ago
Quoted from FatAussieBogan:

He's one smooth talking g#$%. All sizzle very very little sausage so far. I'd be reluctant to buy insulin from jack old mate if I was a diabetic.

People are getting their games...Games are being made and produced every day. There are dozens of positive reviews.

Post edited by absocountry2 : racial slur in quote edited

#390 10 years ago
Quoted from FatAussieBogan:

He's one smooth talking g#$%

Just when I thought this thread couldn't go any more downhill

Post edited by absocountry2 : racial slur in quote edited

#391 10 years ago

Will you please stop cluttering the adults' conversation with your nonsense pictures? Can I find you a copy of Highlights magazine or something to read?

Why don't you mind your own business and put me on Ignore...jerk!

bitch-and-moan.gifbitch-and-moan.gif

#392 10 years ago

Some of you guys are real assholes. Grow up already. You can have opinions without attacking.

#393 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Seems like a pretty libelous statement there

Seriously! Its a damn forum.

#394 10 years ago

Some people just HAVE to keep the bullshit going.

#395 10 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Jack is speaking as a player, distributor and fellow collector - he is a regular guy, not a CEO following adivce from his PR staff.

That was exactly her point.

I'm sure those who are already on here fighting the good fight and slinging mud at the naysayers love it. But those who don't enjoy the daily attacks and chest puffing are probably a little dismayed to see Jack acting like a spurned fanboy. The record could've been set straight without trading jabs with the "haters" and putting down the competition. She wasn't "calling him out." She was actually offering some good advice.

A lot of us haven't taken sides in all of this and are rooting for everybody.

#396 10 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I am still wondering why everyone is mad at Markmon. I just don't see what he did here to get people lashing out at him. Is it because he posted that he bought a Standard WOZ? Is it the way he presented the information? I am just a little tired and confused I guess. Can someone please explain?

It's because he (irresponsibly) posted a bunch of hearsay, stirred everything up, and then come to find out the hearsay was false. Bad form. People make mistakes though.

I like how Jack has jumped in the fray here. Maybe not the best use of time to be doing this sort of thing regularly, but it's good to see industry people on here. I'd like to see Gary Stern and all the designers and artists on here too. The more intergrated the community the better. Plus how cool is it when somebody does something like bashing Stern and then Gary can come on here and call that person out! Maybe it will make more people think twice before running their mouths saying things on the internet they would not say to somebody in person.

The big area where I think JJP messed up was creating customer expectations when it shouldn't have. I'm sure there was a lot of pressure to get games out and pressure to give people estimates of when games would be in their hands, but as soon as somebody has an expectation and that expectation is not met, then you have an unhappy customer. Had people been told, "it could be a few months, but it could be another year, or even longer" then many of these pissed customers would just be anxious customers. I also think it would have cut down on the rumours about line-cuts, etc.

Anyway, I played WOZ a month back and had a great time. I don't have one on order, but it definately made me consider buying one, despite the pricetag. I would like to see JJP get past the point where its relying on pre-orders as part of its business model. The risk there if something went wrong is too much for me to stomach, but I understand why that business model was needed in the beginning. Hopefully as time goes on the pre-orders won't be needed to make future games happen.

#397 10 years ago

.

974fd778-fa7d-4026-ac26-79382b51bf1d.gif974fd778-fa7d-4026-ac26-79382b51bf1d.gif

#398 10 years ago
Quoted from FatAussieBogan:

He's one smooth talking g#$%.

What the hell?

Edit. Self edited my response but this is completely uncool.

Post edited by absocountry2 : racial slur in quote edited

-2
#399 10 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Seems like a pretty libelous statement there

Are you going to have your lawyers send him a letter demanding that he stop like you have with others?

#400 10 years ago

Are you going to have your lawyers send him a letter demanding that he stop like you have with others?

facepalmgroup.giffacepalmgroup.gif

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