Florence, KY
Quoted from JerseyJack:What are YOU known for?
Mostly providing FACTS to reveal half-truths and cover-ups on public forums.
I'm surprised you haven't heard. There must not be a "ticket" for that. 
(Topic ID: 58360)
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Quoted from DCFAN:I can't believe people don't have anything better to do than to post in this pathetic thread.
...just like you did....
Quoted from gambit3113:Bravo to he who put "Papua New Guinea" in the tags.
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LOL! Priceless.
Quoted from gambit3113:Why is Danzig thumbing down everything? That's not very metal.
he got casught in your Libelnami
Well if anyone is guilty of it, its his distributor..
I understand the LEs are still going out faster than the standards. It's a business thats very very tough to survive. Their decision to get some standards out there was purely a business survival move.
Quoted from gambit3113:Why is Danzig thumbing down everything? That's not very metal.
Maybe he is watching Gladiator and likes that part of the movie?
Quoted from j69:What does slipping a flipper mean?
It's WOZ, he obviously meant flipping a slipper. 
If anybody has any input on topic that they would like to add, ask a mod to reopen. For anybody that does not want to spend time reading the entire thread, page 7 has a message from the OP that sold the pins in question. I am quoting some of the message below.
"My name is Glenn and am the owner of Mount Hood Dist. the distributor in question. A little background. My parents started their business in 1951. I run a 2nd generation business. Have been a Distributor for 24 years for various companys from the coin-op business. I've attended every trade show involved with the industry since 1988. Back in those days that was 2 a year whereever which means they were not always held in Vegas. I know almost everyone across the country involved in the coin-op business. Yes I've been in touch since day 1 and beyond when it was just a dream. When I preordered my WOZ I knew I was financing the start up of a new company. I also knew it was a dream to be actually producing inside of 2 years. I also think that the people who preordered knew this as a fact too. If not, they were kidding themselves. I run 600 machines on route. I move, clean, maintain by myself. I have one collection girl that does help in various ways besides just checking out the money. Thats it 600 machines of which 120 pins, 2 people. I have worked day and night in this industry for 40 years and theres no way that a newbie would be capable of that feat. Our company bought 14 new Twilights when released, 14 LOR's when released, 6 Circus Voltaires etc etc I think were into pins here. I have the first 10 Gottlieb flipper woodrails, along with 150 mechanicals. I rest my case as far as involvement in the industry.
To the gentlemen that started all this, shame on you. I didn't even sell them to you. You sent over your buddy to pick them up knowing that you had premeditated this whole mess. From what I understand you didn't or don't have an issue about the money, it's just the fact that you didn't get yours first. As well you didn't get all the facts. I wasn't somebody that just one day decided to be a JJP distributor. I've wanted to be a distributor for JJP long before it was even possible. By the way I had no idea that they were taking pictures in the warehouse when I was in my office. A little underhanded to send these guys over to do that I'd say. If your such a straight up guy why didn't you call me. I'm sure your buddies would have given you my number. I've noticed theres more people that understand how business works a lot better than others.
Everything stated in this blog is my personal opinion and what I believe to be the total truth. I'm also not afraid to state that I'm a God fearing man. No man should hold JJP accountable for anything I've written here.
One other thing I did have a heated discussion on the phone with this guy that started this crap and he was sure to let me know that he knew more about pinballs in his 3.5 of collecting than I did with my 40 years of operating/distributing. REALLY?????"
There is more to the message and reply from the OP starting on pg. 7 if you want to read it all.
Glad this is open. It is weird to wake up and find arbitrary closings. Wy would this thread have been locked? JJP himself is in this thread, giving out good information. It's open now, so anyways.
I can't believe an owner/CEO would threaten on a public forum. I am a CEO also and I find just shooting to work better than threatening.
The remaining question for me was brought up earlier, and the answer seems obvious unless I missed a rebuttal. If mt hood has someone buy all 10, and has to order more, are his prepaid customers being pushed back? It seems unavoidable, just a logistics thing. And if that's the case it sucks.
None of this will matter once everyone has their machine. But everyone knows that already.
edit:I see why it was locked now. The Danzig thing. Maybe it will get back on topic, but I see I just slept through the good part and woke up too late for the real discussion earlier.
Quoted from rommy:Glad this is open. It is weird to wake up and find arbitrary closings. Wy would this thread have been locked? JJP himself is in this thread, giving out good information. It's open now, so anyways.
I can't believe an owner/CEO would threaten on a public forum. I am CEO of a multimillion $ corporation and I would never threaten. Some people like to pull the gun and wave it about while threatening...me? I just shoot. Always been that way, works good.
The remaining question for me was brought up earlier, and the answer seems obvious unless I missed a rebuttal. If mt hood has someone buy all 10, and has to order more, are his prepaid customers being pushed back? It seems unavoidable, just a logistics thing. And if that's the case it sucks.
None of this will matter once everyone has their machine. But everyone knows that already.
I'm also the CEO of a multimillion $ corporation and for some reason that gave me the ability to understand the logistics of the explanation that you seem to have avoided in your question.
10 to 1? 
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com
Quoted from rommy:I can't believe an owner/CEO would threaten on a public forum. I am CEO of a multimillion $ corporation and I would never threaten. Some people like to pull the gun and wave it about while threatening...me? I just shoot. Always been that way, works good.
Public threats are inappropriate for ANY employee of a company. I'm a 25 year veteran of the tech industry and if one of my employees threatened anyone (customer, competitor, etc.) on a public forum it was taken very seriously. Never worked for 1 company that would look the other way or foster it. Depending on the severity of the comment, could easily be grounds for termination.
When Jack responded to my benign post with details of private conversations with him and threats of publishing PRIVATE emails, I just shook my head. Yes, I did ask Jack for help with my AC/DC defects. So what? Is it inappropriate to ask him for a favor when I'm one of his customers and he freely offers? If he said "no", I would have said, "no problem, Jack". Really odd behavior...claimed I was "begging" him? Wrong-o. More importantly, the favor had 0 to do with this thread! In the world of pinball, he's a rock star and I'm just a pinball player/collector. I can't really see what he possibly has to gain by behaving this way and lashing out at me (or anyone else). fwiw, I still respect JJP and what they are accomplishing.
Yeah, dude. I just don't get it. It seems like puffery with a malicious lining - the kind of thing an attorney would whisper in your ear. We want to support a new pinball company, but not if they are going to legally pursue customers who are just talking on a forum.
I think of Pinside as my private backyard, my pinball house, the place I come to talk to friends about pinball. This makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that is NOT what Pinside is. You may be pursued, including legally in court for everything you have, for comments you are making on a pinball message board. Welcome mat deployed!
ps - what about drunken late night posting? poster beware I suppose, the lawyers with the black boots have arrived, and they are listening. 
Quoted from scottc:OMG...this is so childish in so many ways.....Adults with lots of money ah nevermind
I'll second that!
With freedom of speech becomes responsibility....unless your are the press (they have abscence of Malice - decent movie by the way). Oh and Just because someone runs a company doesn't mean there smart or good. Seen a lot of companies run into the ground. But hey what do I know I am just a stay at home dad.
Quoted from scottc:OMG...this is so childish in so many ways.....Adults with lots of money ah nevermind
Should have kept it locked.
By the way for full disclosure I am all in for a Hobbit LE and am very happy with how JJP is moving forward.
Rome wasn't built in a day. With 20+ years of auto manufacturing experience what is happening with WOZ is quite Normal considering everything is being built from scratch. There is a reason why first run cars are sold/leased to employees first. Listen to the experience from the longtime distributor. He is right about you should be happy Jack is taking his time to get things right.
Seems like the flipper/speculators are upset but long term holders are not. But hey what do I know I am just a stay at home dad.
Looks like it was locked for going off topic. I am interested in this thread and hope it stays open - as long as it stays on topic . The legal threats are crazy interesting, and the question of what happens to pre-orders when distributors can order and sell stock right now is really timely and newsworthy, to me anyway. Once all the LEs are delivered, it won't remain topical from that perspective anyway.
Quoted from bmunn1:Seems like the flipper/speculators are upset but long term holders are not.
Maybe in general, but I know long term holders who are certainly upset. They're just not screaming about it. I am not a buyer, but if my distributor traded "my" LE for a standard they could sell now, making me wait longer, I'd be finding a new distributor.
I don't believe the theory of its better to put them on route or better to sell them in bulk to a distro rather than first come first served.
My point is, if I ordered a regular version 14 months ago yet OP can walk in and buy 2 pins before I get mine. Were these pins paid for years in advance like many who have paid and are getting pushed back? When I ordered last July, Jack was talking about games out by Christmas 2012. I know things got pushed back, ok but don't add insult to injury by shipping 10 games to be sold to walk in customers before full paid games are shipped.
If the initial idea was to sell to ops and put them in arcades why how is OP able to walk in and people on order for 2+ years paid in full get the cold shoulder?
Quoted from herg:Maybe in general, but I know long term holders who are certainly upset. They're just not screaming about it. I am not a buyer, but if my distributor traded "my" LE for a standard they could sell now, making me wait longer, I'd be finding a new distributor.
Statistically speaking the ones built later will better and more reliable than the early ones. If a distributor is changing the priority of your pin without your consent then your beef is with the distributor. I purchased my Hobbit LE through a Distributor near me.
Did the people who paid early ask to be bumped back several months? This game was hinted at for Christmas 2012 so people have waited a bit, maybe just maybe it's a bad idea to have distro sell 2 at a time to walk in customers for new money while old prepaid money customers are disregarded.
rommy >> I think you may have missed it but the erroneous BS that started this entire thread >> the claim that distros are jumping the line, has been completely dispelled.
The distros getting large quantities of games were Day 1 orders. They may have flipped which games they got in which order (i.e. distros sound to be opting to take WOZreg before/ in place of their production slots of WOZLE sinc ethey have already sold the LEs), but that is on each individual distributor to explain to their own particular customers.
JJP is NOT allowing people to jump the line.
Quoted from Whysnow:rommy >> I think you may have missed it but the erroneous BS that started this entire thread >> the claim that distros are jumping the line, has been completely dispelled.
The distros getting large quantities of games were Day 1 orders. They may have flipped which games they got in which order (i.e. distros sound to be opting to take WOZreg before/ in place of their production slots of WOZLE sinc ethey have already sold the LEs), but that is on each individual distributor to explain to their own particular customers.
JJP is NOT allowing people to jump the line.
This has not been explained, say distributor orders 10 LEs and pays for them (ie people who order the LEs pay for them). Dealer gets a cut. Now Distributor calls up and says never mind all that give me 10 regular and he sells them on the street he gets another cut. But the people who already paid are getting pushed farther back.
:no no:
Quoted from MrDo:Sounds like the distro should be held accountable for moving standards ahead of paid LE orders. Either way, paid LEs are getting bumped.
How do you figure? Distributor had paid LEs and regulars on order, those machines were going to get made no matter what. They just opted to have their regulars done first and get their LEs later. They didn't get extras inserted into the order list.
Edit: This is assuming that the LEs the distributor ordered were not already pre-sold to clients.
Quoted from epthegeek:How do you figure? Distributor had paid LEs and regulars on order, those machines were going to get made no matter what. They just opted to have their regulars done first and get their LEs later. They didn't get extras inserted into the order list.
No. But they pushed back production of their LEs, which would fulfill customers' preorders, to have standards produced, which are being sold to new customers. Correct?
And just to clarify: This would be on the distro, not Jack.
Quoted from epthegeek:Edit: This is assuming that the LEs the distributor ordered were not already pre-sold to clients.
Just caught your edit. I'm assuming the opposite because I thought all LEs were sold out from distributers.
Sounds to me like if you ordered through Jack, you game is still being built in que. if you ordered through a distributer who then decided to get his standards first, then your distributer is burning you. Then again, im sure your distributer never said they would order their LEs (one of which is your game) first before they acepted their order for standards they made. Is this correct? Im just trying to wrap my head around this...
I assume all LEs that a distributor ordered were in fact sold as that seems to have been the case for quite some time.
The distributor calls JJP and says, "I have production #s 101-105 for the 5 LEs I ordered plus I have production numbers 501-505 which were originally supposed to be standards. Can I please flip those and get my standards first as I would liek to get them on route to drum up more sales?"
JJP says the correct thing to the customer >> "Of course, you can have whatever games built in the production order you have reserved"
The distributor then got his regulars in place of the LEs slot. I am also guessing that some distributors are then just telling their LE customers >>"Sorry, there is another delay in the production of your game"
This then is easily misconstued as JJP allowing people to 'jump' the line when all current evidence suggests that is not the case.
Mississauga
Quoted from rai:This has not been explained, say distributor orders 10 LEs and pays for them (ie people who order the LEs pay for them). Dealer gets a cut. Now Distributor calls up and says never mind all that give me 10 regular and he sells them on the street he gets another cut. But the people who already paid are getting pushed farther back.
:no no:
Bingo!
Quoted from epthegeek:How do you figure? Distributor had paid LEs and regulars on order, those machines were going to get made no matter what. They just opted to have their regulars done first and get their LEs later. They didn't get extras inserted into the order list.
Edit: This is assuming that the LEs the distributor ordered were not already pre-sold to clients.
Your edit is obviously the key. I think the safer assumption is that the LE's were already pre-sold to clients. Not likely that a distributor would have paid JJP for those pins and not have them pre-sold to customers.
Quoted from RobT:Not likely that a distributor would have paid JJP for those pins and not have them pre-sold to customers.
Yeah I guess. How crazy would that be. Distributors paying for things before selling them to other people. So 1990.
But they must have paid for the standards on their own, since they had them sitting in stock to sell ?
I am not a CEO but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express. Shame that even though we are adults playing with expensive toys, some have never matured emotionally and if upset act worse than my two yo if another kid took his toy.
Unnamed many, wtf? Why do you feel you have to be the pinball police and make sure we know Jack sold some Std woz and maybe my LE might be delayed a couple days or more. I say stfu and mind your own business. Thought
Does anyone not fully believe Jack is doing everything in his power to deliver on a great pinball and build a company to continue to deliver more great pins? Thought I would act a two yo too in this paragraph, lol!
Just silly stuff flavored with jealousy, immature resentments and calling the grapes sour.
My buddy has had one for sale for a couple weeks @ 8k and no takers. It's in the market place if you're interested
Quoted from SilverBallz:Has anyone heard of games selling for this much?
If some distributors changed their game order from LE's to standards and got them fast did the same take place for any personal / individual orders ? Any person change their order and get a standard game vs still waiting ?
Quoted from Prmailers:I blame the parents...
Quoted from epthegeek:Yeah I guess. How crazy would that be. Distributors paying for things before selling them to other people. So 1990.
But they must have paid for the standards on their own, since they had them sitting in stock to sell ?
Yeah, I actually agree with your (sarcastic) sentiment. But that's not the way things have been working with JJP or it's distributors for the most part.
You don't think distributors paid in full for WOZLE's years ago and didn't have them pre-sold do you?
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