Sure, but as of right now it isn't a bummer, it's disposable.
There's Neo's "sky is falling/paperweights" view, and then there's the "I'm sure it will be OK/somone will figure this out" view and I'm in the middle.
I'm not interested in 10 years, I'm interested in 2-3 when/if Stern stops being so generous with board replacement. If you have a lot of folks on here having to shell out hundos for boards for shit like LEDs going out, it's gonna get interesting.

Only time will tell i guess but its not going to stop me from buying games and enjoying the hobby thats for sure. Im going to have fun for now. Theres always time to be bitter later right?

because there will be a time the boards will not be available. You have to be able to fix things.

It's nice to be able to keep your games running (like system 11's) for parts that cost .01 cents (diodes). Or .85 cents (transistors).

At this point, nobody is going to make these boards in the future, because nobody has schematics, and practically every game has unique boards that only work with that game. Who the hell wants to put the time and money into trying to reverse engineer a node board for aerosmith, just to possible sell 10 of them because they don't work for anything else.

so yeah.....your game will be disposable.

the only reason you have people making repro boards now for older games, is because most boards work for like 12 different games, so they work for 100,000 games that are out in the wild. Nobody is producing boards this complex for 1 game that might have a production run of 200.

Because they're even too over priced for Stern...

Has there been any reason given for lack of schematics?

Not so sure about that...The dudes over in the Alien thread seem to be producing one off boards for a limited run game.

With Dwight's recent interview on the Special When Lit podcast, he mentioned how he thinks the game is a little to hard. I have said a few times that if no mode is lit that the 4 major shots should pulse or something to show that you want to hit them. Hitting 3 of the 4 would lit the modes. Then the GHOST target doesn't have much need/use. The red lights should be turned into a Rescue/Revive situation. You spell GHOST once and they come on for a ball save on both outlanes. If you want it a second time it's 2 hits per letter. Now the inserts have a use and the GHOST target isn't cast off into not being used.

nice ideas, send them to dwight especially the GHOST and Rescue / Revive concept

No idea how to do that.

At Pintastic, I asked GG about this and he said they were coming, along with tutorials. There is a video of his presentation with my question and his answer on the pintastic sight. I think my question comes in the latter half.

I think the reason is, Stern secretly wants their games to be disposable. What better way to have people keep buying games, if they are unable to be fixed in 10-15 years. With this new breed of collector Stern gets to sell to. They can do shit like this and get away with it. If they tried this 15 years ago.... OPS would have had a shit fit and would have crippled the sales.

There are tons of guys who have been in the hobby for many many years that are buying spike system games right now. Sorry NEO but i just think you are totally wrong about the furure of these games.

I reckon there is even a market down the track for Fast or P3 to sell a kit to swap into these games if Stern doesn't service which will only be Stern's loss.

Here are my current thoughts, subject to change.

As an operator, I love it. Probably the most consistently high earning pin I've had in four years at this.

As a tournament player, I hate it. Video mode skillshot is way overpowering. As are all skillshots. The first 2 shots of each ball are the only thing that matter if you want to beat your opponent. I constantly find myself in situations where I'd prefer to drain so I can go for 6x or PKE Frenzy on the next skillshot to stack in with the multiball that I have ready. The game would be vastly improved from a competitive standpoint if they just removed the skillshots completely.

Did anyone ever tell you how to get 2b on Ghostbusters? Just get 1b. The more points you have, the more points you get. 200m is a pretty solid game...but if you already have a billion, you can get 200m on the plunge. The awards and modes just keep getting more valuable the deeper you get into the game, so the scoring is really exponential. Except once you finish a stack and play We Came We Saw, then it's start from scratch playing modes that will barely add to the massive amount of points you've earned up to this point.

Without looking at the stats, I can guarantee that Ghostbusters has the most disparate final scores of any machine I operate. Sometimes it is deserved, and other times it's a matter of not hitting that one last shot that would set off a chain reaction toward several hundred million extra points. It's only 6 shots to stack storage facility with PKE. One extra plunge if you want to get greedy and have 6x ready. To set this up, you can choose the long way: 80 ghosts for PKE and however many dangerous captive ball shots it would take to get to 6x (it's hard enough to do that it's not worth calculating). Or...you could just take the shortcut of draining twice (which would actually be worth it since it's pretty much impossible to time this sequence properly while actively shooting around the playfield).

Ending up with a huge SJP value when Loopin Supers starts is really rewarding if that was your plan, but it requires you to somehow avoid the left ramp for the entire game (since you'll probably light SJP for some other reason, and need the left ramp for a mode shot, so hitting it will wipe out your value if you die). Sucks for you if you had to collect it and then die before getting to 60 ghosts, as your whole game has been pointless. Setting it up is the rewarding part, but then hitting the same shot over and over again to cash in is a lame victory party.

The mode start imbalance is awful. Wail on the two most dangerous shots in the game repeatedly hoping that one of them is registering consistently. Or just make your skillshot...which you can easily talk yourself out of given the game breakingly large other options you're presented with (6x and PKE).

When it gets chosen in competitive scenarios, it's more frequently the "hopefully my skilled opponents will get screwed by it" choice.

I'm 5x more likely to get 100 ghosts on the Premium, and I have no idea why. Since the early code changes, I can count on one hand the number of times anyone has reached Mass Hysteria on my Pro.

PKE is the most overpowering shot in the whole game...why is it safely loopable on the Premium? (Granted, it's not easy to hit...but it shouldn't feed back cleanly as a repeatable shot).

That's code stuff, but I'm not going to get as detailed about the inlane airballs, the ramp airballs, the hard right orbit shots that rattle and end up coming around to the left and STDM, kickouts going STDM, Scoleri bricks (not one person has ever complained that I disabled them entirely), non-registering Slimers, over-active Slimers, magna-slings that kill you not by throwing the ball down the middle, but surprisingly by not firing and thus sending the ball down the middle.

All of that said, I do think it's probably one of the best games codewise if you enjoy trying to figure out very specific and quirky ways to play the game to try and combine and exploit things. Can you get 180m game with no flips? Yes - you can (depending on how the ball feeds on a full plunge). Can you get a 432m game in 3 flips? Yes - you can! Can you set up repeated 100m shots? Yes - you can! It is fun trying to figure out these sorts of things.

Art, music, and sound are awesome. Once you've spent some time eliminating all the cheap drains, the layout is pretty good and feels unique. When considered in isolation from one another, there are lots of awesome aspects of the code. But...the way those can be combined and manipulated for exponential scoring opportunities is game breaking for me.

(TL;DR A few small code changes would make an indescribable difference, and this game could easily go from zero to hero)

I guess, but these things are somewhat unique in that people can be attracted to the theme first and the gameplay second. For instance I've got a Stern Tron LE, coming up to 7 years old now I guess, and if it failed I'd want to get it fixed - I wouldn't want to be told "you've had enough Tron now, why don't you try some Iron Maiden?".

In that respect I'm not sure the traditional disposable model works particularly well for themed, impulse purchases.

[email protected]

[first name].[last name]@sternpinball.com

Great write-up, thanks for taking the time.

I have played GB at three different locations. Logged about 20 or so games I guess.

Flipper gap in itself is not the problem. The problem is it exists in the same game as jets that have an uncanny way of dropping it SDTM, an annoying Slimer bash toy that has a tendency to bring it straight down the middle, plus a library kickout that shoots too close to the gap, plus balls that hop over the rail from the inlane to outlane, plus crazy airballs that have rebounded behind the flippers so it doesn't matter what the gap is. Indefensible drains.

That the designer is in jail and is now finishef with pinball doesn't affect my take on the game. Probably affecting it more is it's the only game on location within 20 minutes of home right now. And too often I'm feeling ripped off instead of having fun. Even on free play with a bunch of other pins in the house, I feel like I could be playing something better instead.

Lots of people work on a pinball. The playfield designer gets the attention but there's a programmer, artist, sound engineer, and others all the way down to line workers putting the machines together in a factory, who don't make enough to buy $8,000 pinball machines, and who have nothing to do with the playfield designer's activities outside of the production of pinball machines. I see no reason to put them out of work.

That said, I still like Creech, TM:BoP, Black Rose and a couple others that I'd take off the hands of someone who can't stand to look at them anymore. I just can't get into GB like I get into those. I wanted to, for sure.

Sounds like the game you played is untouched from the factory. Airball protectors stop the jumping in the outlanes. My slimer almost never drops it down the middle nor does it go sdtm from the pops constantly. It's pinball, the ball is supposed to go straight down sometimes, learn to nudge the game a little. My game shot it sdt from the left scoop, added a little foam weather stripping to the left side of the kickout and it goes to the left flipper every time.

If I got a game from the factory without these fixes, I'd be really pissed, but my game plays really well.

I posted a video on my fs thread, check it out and you'll see. I played over 10 mins, got a score of 600 mil, no frustrations.

My game has the necessary fixes and it plays great. My son and I have several games over 2 billion and really enjoy the game. After Metallica it gets the most plays in our lineup. I enjoy it more than Aerosmith.

I put carrot flippers to shorten the gap and it makes a huge difference. My wife plays this game everyday and absolutely loves it. It's tough, but fun as hell!

you might need to level the back of the machine better. I never get drains out of the pops. Sample around with the back legs.

Adjusting the kick out strength of the left scoop will fix the issues you are having with the ball heading towards the drain. Were you playing a pro or premium? Like others have stated, no issues with Slimer sending balls SDTM on my prem, but im sure depending on his location, the potential is there. A safer shot on a prem would be when he's over by the left orbit. I will admit I have had a a few SDTM drains from the pops to the point I'm about to install a one-way-gate to force the ball towards the right orbit...

I probably played some of the same pins. I've played many different ones on locations and at shows with well over 20 games. None of them play well. None. I enjoyed playing it for a while because of theme but the more I played it the more I hated it. Game just feels unbalanced and thrown together. Right ramp is just so bad and way too many cheap drains. It's a shame because game really looks awesome and lots of cool features. No worries. Plenty of great pinball out there.

Hoping someone can help me out. I really want to fix my PKE/right ramp shot, and saw on a thread that you can remove the 2" hex spacer and replace with a 1 5/8" and it will stop rolling back out. I found the part at marco----> https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/254-5008-13 but man I hate to pay the shipping on 1 little item (The shipping is almost 4 times the cost of the part) Anyone by chance have this hex spacer I could buy from you?

And are the airballs when shooting on the left side of the playfield from the Scolari targets or is it something else? I love the pin, but the slimmer not registering hits and the difficulty of the PKE ramp and airballs do frustrate the crap out of me. But I still love the pin

Changing the hex post will make a big difference on the right ramp. I got both the 1 5/8" and 1 3/4" posts, and stuck with the 1 3/4". The shorter one returned the ball to the flipper too fast. I didn't like that. Another thing that helps the ball clear the curve is keeping the playfield clean and waxed. I try to clean and wax the playfield at least once a month, and I get very few rollbacks. I guess it would depend on much play it gets as to how often you need to do it. It also makes the rest of the game play much faster, so there's a trade-off.

My slimer only registers on a direct hit when he's in the "Gozer" line in the center. I can live with that, as I look at him as a goalie who's there to block shots when he's active. I get the ball in a cradle on the left flipper and time the shot to hit him. It usually goes thru him into the pops for a controlled return...hopefully.

The left ramp protector and the inlane protectors took care of the airballs on mine. I think these are a must have (I went with ModFather clears). There are also modded brackets for the standups, but the protectors are simple and do the job. I don't get airballs from the Scoleri targets. If anything, I'll get a short bounce on the left one. But, that only happens with a hard on-the-fly shot that hits it flush. When the Scoleri's are up, I try to take cradled shots that graze the edges. That's more to prevent SDTM returns than to prevent airballs. MM trolls piss me off a lot more than the Scoleri's do!

Hope some of that helps.

I played it several times at my friend's house. The game designer should be in prison for spacing the flippers so far apart.
Wait a minute...I think he is.

Carrot flipper bats are the answer,

Get the big outlane protector with center post. Changes everything! I had to put a metal post on mine, because the plastic one didn't last long.

Who sells those? I hope to get a GB next summer and I am plotting my strategy.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/502-6990-00

I only used the big clear one, the other pieces can be used separately if you don't want the center post. This is also available through Pinball Life as well, IIRC.

Preach! Single best post ever written about Ghostbusters, by someone who is clearly both a great player and thoughtful operator.

Yesss. I got some ribbing from friends about "cheating" when I disabled them on my Pro at home. I like hard games, but those targets are just zero fun. I paid $5k to have fun! ...and then I finally sold the frustrating P.O.S.

What happens to the mode when you disable them? Is it just skipped, or do other shots take the place o the drop targets for credit/completion?

If I recall correctly, the mode runs normally, with the obvious catch that you will never knock them down and light the triple super jackpot, which is usually fairly worthless at that point of the game. Mode ends when you drain, as normal.

Doesn't really impact anything else in the game, except for making storage facility no longer a horrible stack with loopin' supers. I would inevitably hit 60 ghosts at some point during multiball, total buzzkill.

I look at them more as a penalty for flailing about and hitting the captive ball unintentionally. I actually like them during storage multiball.

I sort of look at them like this too. The timer for hitting the captive ball the first time will time out soon enough, so cradle up and wait a few seconds. Break the "rule" and get punished.

Thing is.... They really aren't hard to knock back down.

No fun, zzz. Same reason people disable TZ's power magnets in a competitive setting; the correct play is to time it out, but it's no fun to do that, or watch that.

I don't mind them during multiball, unless I have something stacked which requires ramp shots, at which point they become the worst thing ever.

This is how I see them too. They're not that big of a deal. They take one hit. If you don't hit them flush (try to graze the edges), they're easy to clear with minimal risk and give a decent superjackpot. I can see Ryan's point as an operator though. Someone who doesn't know the machine and is flailing on location will hate them. Just turn them off and keep the customer happy. My biggest objection to them is when my mode time is running out and they're blocking a needed shot. But that's my fault for missing my earlier shots.

I agree with everything else Ryan said in his post, but I wonder would a tournament player take the huge risks involved to get those big points? For example, if you try to engage the PKE skill shot at the start, you have to make one of the toughest shots in the game (on Premium). If you miss and engage any other shot, you're in jail with no points and no mode running. Now you have to decide which of the two most dangerous shots to take...multiple captive balls or "ghost" and slimer.

If you try for it on ball 2 or 3, a miss may not put you in jail, but you've cost yourself a much easier opportunity for 10% of your score. He states that he finds himself in positions where he thinks of intentionally draining to start a risky gambit for big points. I can understand that. But would someone really try it in a competitive situation? I think it would depend heavily on the tournament format as to whether those risks are worth it.

I look at them as intentionally combative entities that are there to ruin your day. They are supposed to be frustrating and aggravating, IMO. A punishment for hitting the captive ball. You gotta outsmart them.
Like seth-i said, I try to line up my shots so that the ball only just nicks them on the sides of the drop and they fall with no issues. Hitting them dead on often results in a Scoleri-style bitchslap beatdown brick. Careful shots that only graze them, they drop like dead guys should.

Yeah Loopin Supers is almost never playable. I like the idea of the mode, but Slimer (Premium) and Scoleri are blocking them more often than not.
Dear Mystery Programmer (well, Dwight), make Loopin Supers better! At least freeze the timer if the left target is up. And get Slimer out of the way, even if stacked with SFM. It purposefully hangs out near the ramp. Even having it just go fully left/right would be okay.
Also, all scoring should be 2x during Mass Hysteria when the flippers are reversed.

Ghostbusters just needs it's code expanded upon and polished at this point. The wait for new code is beyond ridiculous.

really ? done this on route (even not home as my GB is gone from time)...

4 out of 5 times, super loopin is during the multi ball. It's frustrating.

Sweet! My record is 8.

yep i know
code need more than just a polish, and its pity in a way (cause this GB could be really good if... )
may be one day

This is what I do in a direct play competitive situation:

Ball 1

Phase 1: Skill Shot. Put top skill shot on Light Multipliers (in case I plunge terribly and go up top...I have accidentally made this skill shot a handful of times). Put bottom skill shot on Video Mode. Short plunge. Take all the time in the world getting the plunge just right. If the feed is bad and I'm not going to get it to an easy cradle, I let it drain and short plunge again. Once I get it under control, I'm shooting for video mode. If I make it: yay, 60 million points coming my way (well, 30m at least anyway...there are absolutely sequences in the video mode that cannot be completed no matter how skilled you are). If I miss and end up canceling all skill shots: boo.

Regardless of if I play video mode or not, we move on to Phase 2: Prepping Storage Facility. Now I'm trying to get in two hits on the left captive ball, ideally while the ball save is still going. If I light locks and die, I still feel good. 60m and my locks are lit on the second easiest shot in the game. If I'm still alive, I start locking balls.

Phase 3: If I'm still alive after locking two balls, then I start trying to light modes. Even though it's four-ish dangerous shots, there isn't anything else to do anyway.

Phase 4: I'm going after the left scoop modes (Spooked Librarian and whatever the other one is after that). You can make it to We Came We Saw on the left scoop modes without ever hitting the left ramp. This is useful because you can keep Storage Facility ready to go and never start it.

Ball 2

If I don't have modes running, and none of my opponents have more than around 200m, I will take video mode again. After that, it's getting to two balls locked, modes ready, or started.

If I do have modes running, and two balls locked, then I might try for 6x, hit my standups during ball save and then start making some seriously valuable mode shots. Though I'd probably be tempted to bring in Storage Facility at some point.

If an opponent has a massive score, like 700m+, you might want to consider plunging for 6x, and if you make it, then let the ball drain (because it's basically impossible not to hit those standups while doing anything else meaningful). Then on ball 3, you can skillshot PKE, hit the ramp to start Storage Facility, and then flail into 6x. Your PKE shots will be in the 200m-600m range, each.

Ball 3

There are tons of options here, depending on what kind of score I need.

If there are no modes running, I can take video mode.

If a small amount would give me the win, and don't want to screw around, then I can skip skillshots entirely, and just short plunge the right orbit and then play a naked Storage Facility.

If I need a large amount, I can skill shot PKE and then stack with Storage Facility. Yes, this is a difficult shot to make and I don't aways get it, but, assuming you short plunge, the right ramp is also one of the safest shots to brick, as I find it rarely ends up triggering another major shot and turning off your skill shots. (You'll most likely brick a few times and end up going through an inlane which will start the timer on your ball saver. Whereas I find missing the video mode scoop late will will often hits the right sling and bounce up and into the left scoop).

Although 6x can be really valuable, I'm least likely to go for that unless I happen to know exactly where the plunge is. The reason is that I only get one attempt and if I miss that center rollover lane, my ball saver starts running. Compare that to lower playfield skillshots which you can attempt as many times as you want (after a short plunge) as long as you don't hit any of the other four major shots first.

That might sound like a lot, but basically you're taking video modes and setting up Storage Facility...so earning points safely, while keeping open the possibility of PKE + Storage Facility for later use if you need a big score. If you're short plunging, it's not really that risky either. As long as you don't miss wildly, you can get multiple attempts at the skillshot on every ball.

All that said, I don't enjoy playing this way. It's mostly just playing video mode, and setting up stuff to have ready later, and then waiting to pull the trigger until you have as much information as possible about your opponents score(s).

If you want to see examples of how exponential the scoring is, check out the last four times it got played in my league. (You can scroll down to see a bar chart too)

http://pinballstats.com/league_nights/180
http://pinballstats.com/league_nights/175
http://pinballstats.com/league_nights/170
http://pinballstats.com/league_nights/168

Not bragworthy scores from me or anyone. Not only does one person blow everyone else away each week, but half the league or more is ending up with sub 30m scores each week. Even though this does earn money on location, most people are not having rewarding games. You basically cannot score points if you just flip around without knowing the rules, nothing will happen, nothing. And you won't be given much help even if you are paying attention.

Here are more from another league I'm in (one with multiple players who end up in the state championships each year):

http://www.lefkoff.com/mhpl-lyons-s26/26_09.html
http://www.lefkoff.com/mhpl-lyons-s26/26_02.html
http://www.lefkoff.com/mhpl-lyons-s25/25_08.html
http://www.lefkoff.com/mhpl-lyons-s25/25_01.html

Same trends apply.

I'm not really trying to get hundreds of millions, it's just that if I get 60m+, I'm already ahead of probably 75% of the other people in the league. Even if video mode was nixed or nerfed, I'd play a similarly stupid strategy of short plunging, readying MB, going for modes when I had nothing else to do and really not caring if I drained since my next skillshot is a shortcut to: starting modes, 6x, PKE, etc. That kind of sucks. Draining should be painful, but on Ghostbusters you end up in jail so frequently that draining is usually a chance at a fresh start.

The most typical type of game I see played on a public Ghostbusters goes like this: full plunge, miss skillshot. At some point, accidentally hit left captive ball. Fail to realize that your main multiball locks are one shot away. Accidentally start Scoleri Brothers at some point. Brick shots off them, or get lucky and knock them down. Hit left ramp for TRIPLE SUPER JACKPOT. Enjoy a whopping 3m points. Never at any point realize how to start a mode. Drain frustratingly down the huge gap between the flippers or because the ball skips over into the outlane off the slingshot or inlane divider. Game over with 8-10 million points. Maybe 20m if you lucked into starting a modes and made a shot or two. Wonder why the replay value is like 200m and how on earth anyone could get 5b for the Grand Champ.

Gave up my AC/DC premium for this game and never looked back. AC/DC doesn’t stack up to this game and is ranked in the top ten. (Go figure) Definitely a top ten pin in my opinion. Total package and more. I’ve done all the suggested tweeks except the shorter ramp post which is next. All I can say is WOW!

and its during MB i've scored this, by loopin' the following balls perfectly on the left ramp...
i will never do that again