So... GAP. What's going on there?


By jorant

1 week ago


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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Yelobird
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    There are 108 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 10 days ago

    As a resident of Northern Illinois, I look for pins in the marketplace. I put in my zone, and I have to say over half the pins are always posted by Great American Pinball. Their prices seem.... terrible. What's going on, here? How are they doing business with those prices, and more importantly, in my search perimeters, is there a way I can omit them?

    15
    #2 10 days ago

    His prices are retail. There is a customer base for that. Non pinheads want to buy a game from an established business that has customer service, not from some guy in his garage telling him "if it aint broke, it aint pinball" when he calls him the next day because the board fried

    #3 10 days ago

    Make him an offer, those prices are not carved in stone.

    #4 10 days ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    His prices are retail. There is a customer base for that.

    6700 dollars for a metllica pro isn't retail. Nor is 4600 for a used NBA fast break. All I really want to know, I guess, is if there is a way to omit them from my search criteria.

    #5 10 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    All I really want to know, I guess, is if there is a way to omit them from my search criteria.

    Start a feature request thread. No need to be negative towards GAP in a thread for their prices on market place, those are the same type of retail prices you will see from other brick and mortar locations. Brick and mortar location prices are more like eBay prices than Pinside prices, and they do have a market for reasons identified by @cosmokramer

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    #6 10 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    No need to be negative towards GAP in a thread for their prices on market place, those are the same type of retail prices you will see from other brick and mortar locations.

    Absolutely. Price isn't everything. Some people like to pay a bit more to be sure about excellent customer service. Myself included

    As for hiding ads from certain users: currently, that is not possible. The plan is to link it to the ignore feature so in the future you could ignore a user to no longer see his ads.

    10
    #7 10 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    The plan is to link it to the ignore feature so in the future you could ignore a user to no longer see his ads.

    This would be AWESOME.

    #8 10 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    As for hiding ads from certain users: currently, that is not possible. The plan is to link it to the ignore feature so in the future you could ignore a user to no longer see his ads.

    That would be great to see!

    Similar to OP's issue, my search criteria yields a vendor who never comes on the forums and just posts each and every NIB title every week in the Market at retail/inflated prices. Since those are always posted over and over again by that vendor, and because I'm never going to buy a NIB game like that, typically half of the results I scroll through are of no use. I'd love to block that vendor so their results never come up. Looking forward to that feature!

    #9 10 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    6700 dollars for a metllica pro isn't retail. Nor is 4600 for a used NBA fast break. All I really want to know, I guess, is if there is a way to omit them from my search criteria.

    Come to Australia, that is retail for an NBA to unsuspecting newb buyers at a dedicated bricks and mortar. The mentality seems to be common amongst that market segment that there is some implied higher level of service, quality of product and trust between the retailer and the customer which justifies the inflated pricing.

    Just be glad the machine is being advertised as an actual NBA and not being passed off as a rebirthed chop shop "original" MM with a 15k sticker price.

    "We had to put in a repro MM playfield because the old one was too trashed"
    "So where is the old one?"
    "We threw that out as it was beyond repair"

    LOL.

    12
    #10 10 days ago

    I like the fact that GAP makes contributions to pinside.

    #11 10 days ago

    Retailers do a lot for the community and certainly belong here, especially the ones that donate. That said, it would definitely be a great option to ignore some that clutter up the marketplace with a 50 game blast of full priced games

    #12 9 days ago

    I'm guessing that pinball dealers have to post retail on NIB games per an agreement with the manufacturer. That's pretty common practice outside of pinball.
    After calling a few dealers in the Chicago area, I bought a NIB from GAP. Price was the same as everywhere else and he made me a pretty great deal on shipping. The reason I went with GAP was that he spent more time on the phone with me chatting and offering his insights which I appreciated.

    Look, GAP is a smart marketer. It's what you do to get your name out there in front of people.

    #13 9 days ago

    His loose part prices are insane high too, but I paid em and happy to find the parts that are otherwise not available.

    #14 9 days ago

    For pricing, i put Gap in the same category as FUN, they aren't trying to sell to a certain group of people and focusing on others.

    I tried but hey whatever. Plenty of options out there.

    #15 9 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    As a resident of Northern Illinois, I look for pins in the marketplace. I put in my zone, and I have to say over half the pins are always posted by Great American Pinball. Their prices seem.... terrible. What's going on, here? How are they doing business with those prices, and more importantly, in my search perimeters, is there a way I can omit them?

    GAP is no different than Auto Repair. There are customers who are willing and more than comfortable pay $400-$500 to have their brakes done at a dealer. Then there are ones who pay $200 - $400 at an independent shop. Some will pay a backyard/alley mechanic $125 or so to do them. And finally buy the stuff on Rock Auto and do it yourself for under $100.

    There are differences at each level. The Dealer is going to use OE parts, give you a 12/12 warranty and you pay a premium for that. An Independent repair facility will use aftermarket parts, there is a variety in quality, but you still get a warranty, sometimes better than the 12/12. An alley mechanic, you are lucky if they back up anything they do, they use the cheapest shit, buyer beware. And if you do it yourself, you are your own warranty and craftsman.

    Pinball is no different. GAP has done, nor is doing anything wrong. If your issue is personal with him, you are in the wrong place. Own your own business and you may feel differently.

    #16 9 days ago

    There's nothing personal about it imo

    It is what it is. Buy at MUCH higher prices or don't.

    Educated consumers are better consumers.

    #17 9 days ago

    I still don't know what additional services you receive for the higher prices.

    How is the higher price reflected with respect to customer service?
    Does the higher price include in-home service for the first year?
    Do they extend the manufacturer's warranty?

    In a world of Stern's fixed pricing, maybe all of this is moot? It's been awhile since I've bought NIB.

    #18 9 days ago

    I bought my used HUO Tron from GAP several years ago. Definitely was NOT at retail price. They had picked up a complete modern Stern collection from a collector and I think they were trying to quickly liquidate stock. Was very happy with the purchase.

    #19 9 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    As for hiding ads from certain users: currently, that is not possible. The plan is to link it to the ignore feature so in the future you could ignore a user to no longer see his ads.

    Robin that would be a great Pinside+ feature.

    63
    #20 9 days ago

    Yes we are a retail outlet, but we do offer deals and we will never forced anyone to buy a game at gunpoint!!!! We do find really nice used games and are competitive with new in box pricing. We offer free shipping on a majority of our games and handle all aspects of packing shipping, claims and insurance, etc and customers don't have to worry about anything. We also support our machines if there are issues. We support Pinside on sales of machines and are thankful Robin has allowed us this avenue to sell games and we donate a portion of the sale to support his site. We also donate annually to Pinside. We place a lot of pinball machine in homes with children that have never had a pinball machine, which hopefully grows the hobby for future generations. Most of the people who are interested in game contact me through Pinside and we work out a price.

    We also push the boundaries of pinball creating some cool custom machines and some not so cool custom machines.(Some I would like to forget about) check out our Black and White Twilight Zone link below.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-and-white-tz-coming-soon/page/4#post-4067884

    If you want to know a little bit about GAP, Here is our feedback from some customers!

    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/gap/feedback

    We also give back to the community and currently offering a free giveaway this month. We are currently giving away 1 FREE HD glass this month if you like our Facebook page. Winner will be announced after Thanksgiving $239 value. see facebook page link below

    https://www.facebook.com/GAPpinball/

    We also put together videos on gameplay, showcased on our youtube page, that will explain how to play a game and actually show a video of an entire game in action. More cool video's to come!!!! See youtube link below

    » YouTube video

    Below are some pics of our shop, stop on out just to chat pinball, no purchase necessary!!!!! Chatting is free.

    Also here are pics of our shop. If you need a part on the weekend we carry the basics and we might be able to help you out! We do have limited hours!!

    Anyway, I hope this was informative on who we are. Thanks for those that do support us!

    Happy Flippin

    GAP

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    #21 9 days ago

    I buy From Mike at GAP all the time. I tend to rotate between GAP and JJ. First-rate service from both. And similar prices. I dont know about “retail.” I just know that both sell me pins at fair prices which include shipping and which are in line with the best prices available from non brick-and-mortar dealers.

    #22 9 days ago
    Quoted from GAP:

    stop on out just to chat pinball,

    You'll find Mike to be nice to talk to. Been in pinball a long time. Same if you see him at a show, great source of information.

    LTG : )

    #23 9 days ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    I buy From Mike at GAP all the time. I tend to rotate between GAP and JJ. First-rate service from both. And similar prices. I dont know about “retail.” I just know that both sell me pins at fair prices which include shipping and which are in line with the best prices available from non brick-and-mortar dealers.

    I don't think we are talking about new Stern Nibs which they have pegged at certain price points no matter who the dealer is?

    Kind of like price fixing but whatever. I buy from JJ and others as well.

    It's the NON Nib games that seem to exceed market expectations. But like i said, I don't even look anymore at his FS ads.

    People have to make a living I guess. If you can get it, more power to you.

    #24 9 days ago

    Thanks Greg and LTG. Been doing this since 1999 and I wish I had half the knowledge that you have LTG!!!!

    #25 9 days ago

    The price on older games may be on the higher side of average , but they are some quality looking games.

    #26 9 days ago
    Quoted from patrickvc:

    but they are some quality looking games.

    Contact GAP about specifics. Many of his games have had a lot done to them. Stuff replated, powder coated, lots of extras.

    Every game can be different. He has shown some super examples at past Expos.

    LTG : )

    #27 9 days ago

    Bought an unshopped game from GAP and the price for that title and condition was right on.
    Mike has some very special and rare titles which command a much higher price than typical.
    Don't be scared off by those.
    Buy with confidence from GAP, I did with zero regrets.

    #28 9 days ago

    I wish I could give a local retailer a chance on NIB pins, but the IL sales tax just kills the deal.

    Never heard anything bad about GAP though.

    And as far as retail prices, I gladly paid similar 'retail' prices on a used HUO LOTR this past summer with Cointaker. So GAPs used prices really aren't that different than other retailers we all know and love.

    #29 9 days ago

    I wish I could help out the Illinois folks and I get the tax piece and there is no way around it. GOVERMENT, wants their money. We do ship a lot out of Illinois.

    #30 9 days ago
    Quoted from kid_ego:

    I wish I could give a local retailer a chance on NIB pins, but the IL sales tax just kills the deal.
    Never heard anything bad about GAP though.
    And as far as retail prices, I gladly paid similar 'retail' prices on a used HUO LOTR this past summer with Cointaker. So GAPs used prices really aren't that different than other retailers we all know and love.

    I would be like to know what GAP's price on a HUO LOTR would be, so i could compare what i would sell mine for.

    #31 9 days ago
    Quoted from pinbum:

    I would be like to know what GAP's price on a HUO LOTR would be, so i could compare what i would sell mine for.

    $3500, lmk if you want to sell. It's a joke, it's a joke.

    #32 9 days ago

    You know, SOME people here post their games AT retail prices and don't offer jack after the sale.

    That being said, I'd much rather buy from GAP then about 75% of the sellers that list at retail prices for their "high intrinsic valued" machines....

    #33 9 days ago

    I think Gap is a great company but they have some of the most expensive prices in the business. Literally everything they sell you can find cheaper in similar quality. To each thier own

    #34 9 days ago

    Mike’s a good dude

    #35 9 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    You know, SOME people here post their games AT retail prices and don't offer jack after the sale.
    That being said, I'd much rather buy from GAP then about 75% of the sellers that list at retail prices for their "high intrinsic valued" machines....

    So if i buy from an out of state vendor and something breaks there going to fly on down and fix it. lol

    #36 9 days ago
    Quoted from kid_ego:

    I wish I could give a local retailer a chance on NIB pins, but the IL sales tax just kills the deal.

    The 6.25% Illinois Use Tax makes it a wash, though. But at least in your case you’re holding it until you file rather than paying it upfront immediately.

    #37 9 days ago
    Quoted from GAP:

    Yes we are a retail outlet, but we do offer deals and we will never forced anyone to buy a game at gunpoint!!!! We do find really nice used games and are competitive with new in box pricing. We offer free shipping on a majority of our games and handle all aspects of packing shipping, claims and insurance, etc and customers don't have to worry about anything. We also support our machines if there are issues. We support Pinside on sales of machines and are thankful Robin has allowed us this avenue to sell games and we donate a portion of the sale to support his site. We also donate annually to Pinside. We place a lot of pinball machine in homes with children that have never had a pinball machine, which hopefully grows the hobby for future generations. Most of the people who are interested in game contact me through Pinside and we work out a price.
    We also push the boundaries of pinball creating some cool custom machines and some not so cool custom machines.(Some I would like to forget about) check out our Black and White Twilight Zone link below.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-and-white-tz-coming-soon/page/4#post-4067884
    If you want to know a little bit about GAP, Here is our feedback from some customers!
    https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/gap/feedback
    We also give back to the community and currently offering a free giveaway this month. We are currently giving away 1 FREE HD glass this month if you like our Facebook page. Winner will be announced after Thanksgiving $239 value. see facebook page link below
    https://www.facebook.com/GAPpinball/
    We also put together videos on gameplay, showcased on our youtube page, that will explain how to play a game and actually show a video of an entire game in action. More cool video's to come!!!! See youtube link below
    » YouTube video
    Below are some pics of our shop, stop on out just to chat pinball, no purchase necessary!!!!! Chatting is free.
    Also here are pics of our shop. If you need a part on the weekend we carry the basics and we might be able to help you out! We do have limited hours!!
    Anyway, I hope this was informative on who we are. Thanks for those that do support us!
    Happy Flippin
    GAP

    Cool man! I have been on Pinside for years and had always seen your adds but really didn’t know anything about you... you sound like a solid pinhead!
    Thanks for chiming in here

    #38 9 days ago

    They sell preppie clothes and mom jeans.

    What?

    #39 9 days ago

    Please do not compare GAP to FUN. Have dealt with both. I have bought my last many NIB from Mike Nogle. He is THE BEST I have dealt with in the last 6 years. Reputation is VERY important in pinball. Please do not trash a guy who works very hard AND does an fantastic job. His margins are slim so I do not know what you want on top. I just ordered a GOTG and a Houdini from him. I will stand by him anytime. That is the sad part of pinside. You can do all kind of good deeds then one guy shows up and tries to flush everything you have done for years. Just because his retail prices on his website are what they are, it does not mean they are for pinheads! What is wrong about trying to make a living? Just make an offer he cannot refuse:))
    His only issue is that he is a Cubs fan.

    #40 9 days ago

    I recently purchased a couple of pins from Mike that I am awaiting delivery on. He was great to deal with and very fair on pricing. I would not hesitate one bit to do business with him again. Not only did he have a game I couldn't find anywhere else, he was more than happy to answer all of my questions.

    As a business owner, I have to make sure that I cover my overheads, pay my very valued employees a fair wage and still make enough to grow my business. In this day and age, price often rules no matter what unfortunately. I for one am more than happy to spend my hard earned money with someone that goes there extra mile, supports our passion and offers top notch stuff. Hell, he us 5 hours away and I am already trying to talk the Mrs. Into a trip up there to see if I can lighten his inventory any more.

    -27
    #41 9 days ago

    Mike is a nice guy.

    All of his stuff is WAY overpriced and takes advantage of noobs so he can build a business. You can view it as he has overhead, retail space, blah blah blah. i view it as a guy that makes it a full time gig out of flipping pinball machines. He hunts down the goods deals making ot harder for hobbyiests to find them. HE shops them out and then charges almost double value in some cases. His buyers are more and more of the new people coming into the hobby that have more money than most of us and are happy to have his "service".

    I agree that I would like to be able to filter his junk from the market and not see it. IF it means I need to ignore Mike altogether then so be it.

    Again, I think Mike is a nice guy. however, I don't care for his business or business practices. i think it is fair to have both oppinions as the same time.

    Retail guys unfortunately have a place in the hobby and that seems to be growing based on the influx of ritchie riches.

    12
    #42 9 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Retail guys unfortunately have a place in the hobby and that seems to be growing based on the influx of ritchie riches.

    So you think there should be no retail outlets for pinball? Keep pinball away from new blood so the hobbyist can buy all the games? I dont understand, just because he charges retail and we like to buy wholesale he shouldnt charge what he needs/wants too?
    Should all new pinball fans seek out a wise guru like you to hold their hand, or should they have a store where they can learn/play different stuff and make an educated decision?
    You mentioned with distain that rich people are coming into the hobby and buying his stuff, how does that hurt you?

    #43 9 days ago

    I'm sure people visit GAP's showroom, check out the games he has sitting there and pays rent to house, talks to the staff that earn a wage, then go buy it somewhere else to save a few bucks. It's tough to be in retail.

    #44 9 days ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    So you think there should be no retail outlets for pinball? Keep pinball away from new blood so the hobbyist can buy all the games? I dont understand, just because he charges retail and we like to buy wholesale he shouldnt charge what he needs/wants too?
    Should all new pinball fans seek out a wise guru like you to hold their hand, or should they have a store where they can learn/play different stuff and make an educated decision?
    You mentioned with distain that rich people are coming into the hobby and buying his stuff, how does that hurt you?

    Nope,I just want a pinside feature to block me from seeing retail crap.

    As for noobs, will continue to provide assistance and warn them which retailers to avoid completely and why.

    I have no disdain for rithcie riches, just pointing out the reality of our hobby. I actually am thankful of the uneducated rich dudes that have plenty of money to buy whatever they want. those are many of the guys supporting the NIB portion of the hobby and helping to ensure more new games come out. WIthout rich dudes and operators the current state of the hobby does not exist

    11
    #45 9 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Nope,I just want a pinside feature to block me from seeing retail crap.
    As for noobs, will continue to provide assistance and warn them which retailers to avoid completely and why.
    I have no disdain for rithcie riches, just pointing out the reality of our hobby. I actually am thankful of the uneducated rich dudes that have plenty of money to buy whatever they want. those are many of the guys supporting the NIB portion of the hobby and helping to ensure more new games come out. WIthout rich dudes and operators the current state of the hobby does not exist

    That totally contradicts what you just posted above...

    #46 9 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    6700 dollars for a metllica pro isn't retail. Nor is 4600 for a used NBA fast break. All I really want to know, I guess, is if there is a way to omit them from my search criteria.

    You are wrong, those are proper retail prices.

    Don't forget that just like on pinside, retail customers LOVE to haggle. You have to leave some meat there.

    The real question is why do you care? Obviously GAP isn't for you, just ignore their listings and move on with your life.

    Quoted from frolic:

    I'm sure people visit GAP's showroom, check out the games he has sitting there and pays rent to house, talks to the staff that earn a wage, then go buy it somewhere else to save a few bucks. It's tough to be in retail.

    This happens literally ALL THE TIME. People use retail spots as a free arcade for an hour or so and then go buy the game elsewhere. Then they call you a month later to come fix the game they bought off CL or Ebay.

    Retail and dealing with the GP can be rewarding, but it can also be a huge pain in the ass. If you guys think it's such a great racket and just free money, you should give it a shot!

    #47 9 days ago

    All I hear in this thread with the people bashing GAP is a bunch of selfish whiners.

    Some of you act like because you are a weekend hobbyist you are doing pinball the right way. Pinball is a bunch of grown white dudes wasting money on toys. If you don't like the price then don't buy it. It's just that simple. To act like GAP is doing something wrong is ridiculous.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You are wrong, those are proper retail prices.
    Don't forget that just like on pinside, retail customers LOVE to haggle. You have to leave some meat there.
    The real question is why do you care? Obviously GAP isn't for you, just ignore their listings and move on with your life.

    This is pinside Levi, they can't just move on. They are doing the hobby right and GAP is raping and pillaging it dry. Something must be done.............

    #48 9 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Mike is a nice guy.
    All of his stuff is WAY overpriced and takes advantage of noobs so he can build a business. You can view it as he has overhead, retail space, blah blah blah. i view it as a guy that makes it a full time gig out of flipping pinball machines. He hunts down the goods deals making ot harder for hobbyiests to find them. HE shops them out and then charges almost double value in some cases. His buyers are more and more of the new people coming into the hobby that have more money than most of us and are happy to have his "service".
    I agree that I would like to be able to filter his junk from the market and not see it. IF it means I need to ignore Mike altogether then so be it.
    Again, I think Mike is a nice guy. however, I don't care for his business or business practices. i think it is fair to have both oppinions as the same time.
    Retail guys unfortunately have a place in the hobby and that seems to be growing based on the influx of ritchie riches.

    I tend to find you as a arrogant ass. However, you are correct in this assumption.

    38
    #49 9 days ago

    Whysnow has a had problem with GAP for a while now and I can't figure it out. Met him at Spooky's for an open house on Rob
    Zombie and had a great conversation with him and his friends. Played a couple of 4 player games with him and his friends. Very cordial conversation and agreed on a lot of things and had a great discussion about the game.

    Hilton and I also had a deal on a really nice Stargate that he wanted from me, I sent him detailed pics of the game, had a long for conversation with him on the phone and we worked out a price that he agreed upon. He said his word was his hand shake, he wanted it and then he backed out a week later. I was fine with that and had no hard feelings. People change their minds, we get that all the time.

    He was also interested in a HUO Banzai run in Pristine condition that I had up for $7500, near perfect condition and offered me $4750 for it. I politely declined and told him was sold to a local who wanted the game. It sold for $7000. When we can we will give people deals or discounts if you call!

    I have know hard feeling towards Hilton at all. I get the hobbyist aspect of the business, but we do not flip games and we do not take advantage of Noobs. Or NIB Price are the same as other retailers if not better because of shipping.

    We wish everyone the best! Hilton don't take this personally, I have treated you with the utmost respect and kindness. I normally don't like defending GAP because you can't please everyone, but I just want to set the record straight!

    GAP

    #50 9 days ago
    Quoted from GAP:

    Whysnow has a had problem with GAP for a while now and I can't figure it out. Met him at Spooky's for an open house on Rob
    Zombie and had a great conversation with him and his friends. Played a couple of 4 player games with his friends. Very cordial conversation and agreed on a lot of things and had a great discussion about the game.
    Hilton and I also had a deal on a really nice Stargate that he wanted from me, I sent him detailed pics of the game, had along for conversation with him on the phone and we worked out a price that he agreed upon. He said his word was his hand shake, he wanted it and then he back back out a week later. I was fine with that and had no hard feelings. People change their minds, we get that all the time.
    He was also interested in a HUO Banzai run in Pristine condition that I had up for $7500, near perfect condition and offered me $4750 for it, I politely declined and sold it to a local who wanted the game.
    I have know hard feeling towards Hilton at all. I get the hobbyist aspect of the business, but we do not flip games and we do not take advantage of Noobs.
    We wish everyone the best! Hilton don't take this personally, I have treated you with the utmost respect and kindness. I normally don't like defending GAP because you can't please everyone, but I just want to set the record straight!
    GAP

    Only fair when someone comes out and all but says that he recommends people not buy from you when he meets new folks. Pretty strange that he tries to buy from you though. I guess it's the "Do what I say, not what I do" type of thing.

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    $ 50.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Just 3D Mods
    From: $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
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