This topic is closed.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Ridiculous considering these items were already taxed once (assuming if used) to begin with, that should be enough. Same goes for used cars being taxed multiple times. Give the lower and middle class a break, this is doing the exact opposite of that.
Everything is double taxed
You pay income tax and then sales tax - double taxed
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Everything is double taxed
You pay income tax and then sales tax - double taxed
Property tax! Triple taxed!! Use tax quadruple taxed! Self employment tax! Quintuple taxed!
Quoted from chuckwurt:Property tax! Triple taxed!! Use tax quadruple taxed! Self employment tax! Quintuple taxed!
And now chuckwurt is triggered about taxes again.
Quoted from mrm_4:And now chuckwurt is triggered about taxes again.
Just trying to help share actual information.
So you made 1,400 dollars profit on a flip and are upset you are paying tax on your investment's profit?
Quoted from chuckwurt:Just trying to help share actual information.
Trying to make people happy and accepting of paying more taxes than they do already is a recipe for disaster.
Quoted from MaxIsDead:Get audited, how will you explain that $18,000 of cash that went into your bank account?
That's why it goes under the mattress.
Quoted from chad:We must expose the loop holes that the big companies/Tech use to pay literally no tax.
Businesses play by different rules than humans. Also “tax the rich” by raising income tax is pointless cause the loophole is usually most get paid in company stock options etc so they are paying gains tax not income so that only hurts us.
Propose raising gains tax and see how quickly that gets shut down 
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Ridiculous considering these items were already taxed once (assuming if used) to begin with, that should be enough. Same goes for used cars being taxed multiple times. Give the lower and middle class a break, this is doing the exact opposite of that.
Quoted from PinballTilt:Adding a 1099 to your taxes is a huge pain too to make it worse. You need the highest level of like TurboTax software ($$$) because you essentially own your own business now. It's extremely ridiculous, [Removed]
Quoted from chuckwurt:This has been a rule with the IRS for all time. You should’ve always reported that transaction.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Everything is double taxed
You pay income tax and then sales tax - double taxed
Quoted from Flyfalcons:So you made 1,400 dollars profit on a flip and are upset you are paying tax on your investment's profit?
Let me clarify my concern and how this effects my ability to support my hobby.
One of the items I sold was an Atari 2600 copy of Defender, complete in box with manual. I sold it for about $20 (plus shipping) on ebay. I paid $1 for it an estate sale... so that is $19 in "capital gains" and "personal income". Well, that copy of Defender has already been taxed. I'm using this example, because the handwritten receipt for it from 1982 for $64.95 plus tax, was in the box. Taxes were paid on that item, at a higher rate mind you, before I was born that helped support the fall of the Soviet Union. Everything I purchased and sold was already taxed in the 1980s. The items I'm selling largely went to video game resellers from what I could tell based off of addresses, where I'm sure taxes will be collected at a retail establishment. The models will probably be consumed by the buyers. So these items are now being taxed 2 or 3 times. On top of that, the 1099 makes it an absolute pain. I will probably end up spending more time on paperwork than I did buying, selling, wrapping, and shipping by the time I'm done.
I'm going to probably continue using ebay this year because I'm already comitted to the 1099 but I'm done December 31st. Invest/short sell accordingly.
Chuck, if you're trying to spread actual information, you're not doing a good job of it. It HASN'T always been that way. There did exist a time in history when every bit of income was NOT taxable. And even after the advent of forced socialism, many of the 'rules' weren't enforced...so that's pretty close to not being a rule at all. It's only very recently, thanks to certain unidentifiable groups of human-like organisms, that these rules are being enforced. Perspective is an important part of being 'actual'.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Let me clarify my concern and how this effects my ability to support my hobby.
One of the items I sold was an Atari 2600 copy of Defender, complete in box with manual. I sold it for about $20 (plus shipping) on ebay. I paid $1 for it an estate sale... so that is $19 in "capital gains" and "personal income". Well, that copy of Defender has already been taxed. I'm using this example, because the handwritten receipt for it from 1982 for $64.95 plus tax, was in the box. Taxes were paid on that item, at a higher rate mind you, before I was born that helped support the fall of the Soviet Union. Everything I purchased and sold was already taxed in the 1980s. The items I'm selling largely went to video game resellers from what I could tell based off of addresses, where I'm sure taxes will be collected at a retail establishment. The models will probably be consumed by the buyers. So these items are now being taxed 2 or 3 times. On top of that, the 1099 makes it an absolute pain. I will probably end up spending more time on paperwork than I did buying, selling, wrapping, and shipping by the time I'm done.
I'm going to probably continue using ebay this year because I'm already comitted to the 1099 but I'm done December 31st. Invest/short sell accordingly.
Past taxes are irrelevant ... per your logic thrift stores should not have to pay taxes
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Past taxes are irrelevant ... per your logic thrift stores should not have to pay taxes
Plus he's confusing sales tax with income tax.
Quoted from Flyfalcons:So you made 1,400 dollars profit on a flip and are upset you are paying tax on your investment's profit?
At this point....I'm okay with paying the taxes. What I'm not okay with is how complicated it is to actually do it. You want to charge me? Track it and prove it. Don't make ME track it and prove it. It gives me less incentive to care or deal with it. Also, don't make it so complicated I have to pay someone else to reliably do it for me...oh wait...same shit different subject. People lining pockets.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Past taxes are irrelevant ... per your logic thrift stores should not have to pay taxes
I agree, they should not.
Quoted from GregCon:Chuck, if you're trying to spread actual information, you're not doing a good job of it. It HASN'T always been that way. There did exist a time in history when every bit of income was NOT taxable. And even after the advent of forced socialism, many of the 'rules' weren't enforced...so that's pretty close to not being a rule at all. It's only very recently, thanks to certain unidentifiable groups of human-like organisms, that these rules are being enforced. Perspective is an important part of being 'actual'.
They weren't enforced because our government is very slow when it comes to technology and how to handle it across all the different states. This was ALWAYS coming eventually after they finally forced everyone to collect tax for online sales. I'm not any happier about it than you, but it doesn't mean it wasn't always there. It was about people not actually being honest, and they know it. I'm guilty as charged. We enjoyed around 2 decades of tax free online purchases/sales.
Quoted from loneacer:Plus he's confusing sales tax with income tax.
They would pay both types of taxes on it. State sales tax on the percentage of the total sale price and income tax on the "capital gains". Both are being paid many times over.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:They would pay both types of taxes on it. State sales tax on the percentage of the total sale price and income tax on the "capital gains". Both are being paid many times over.
Potentially. You don't know their cost basis on the item back in 1982. Maybe they sold it at a loss. Or maybe other items were sold at a loss that canceled out the profits from this item. You mentioned the tax on the receipt, which was sales tax.
Quoted from Zablon:You want to charge me? Track it and prove it. Don't make ME track it and prove it.
You would want some entity to keep track of every item you ever purchase anywhere? Even if they could do so for a cash garage sale purchase, would you want that invasion of privacy?
Quoted from loneacer:You would want some entity to keep track of every item you ever purchase anywhere? Even if they could do so for a cash garage sale purchase, would you want that invasion of privacy?
This is the case for (and against) the digital dollar (not talking cryptocurrency here).
Quoted from loneacer:You would want some entity to keep track of every item you ever purchase anywhere? Even if they could do so for a cash garage sale purchase, would you want that invasion of privacy?
Are you doing something so illegal that you care? I mean, we are already tracked for almost everything we buy/sell in some form. I get it, maybe you buy something you are embarrassed to buy, but in 99% of those cases no one who has that information is going to care about that or use it against you. If you are using credit cards - you are tracked. Every receipt even if you pay cash is stored and archived somewhere. All of your data is already in massive databases being sold to advertisers. Do you really think that extra step to save time and money is that much more evil? If you are that concerned, you are in for a shock. Very little you do is not known or tracked by someone.
And for the record, it's not that I am okay with any of it, or want more taxing. Quite the opposite. It's just the reality of the world. Unless you are uber rich and get loopholes, etc, we're just fucked. We are way past being able to fix anything of meaning in any short amount of time and IMO there are a lot more pressing freedom problems in society to worry about.
Quoted from Pinplayer1967:Taxation is theft!
I take it you don't use any public services, or drive on public roads?
Quoted from La4s:I take it you don't use any public services, or drive on public roads?
You must love paying taxes and believe all government programs have zero waste. Please
Quoted from Methos:Seriously. Where else can you get the services we do from Government at the cost we do? The value is immense.
Problem is the spending is even more immenser.
I'm good with paying for essential services, but the definition of essential has grown exponentially in the last 70 years.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Let me clarify my concern and how this effects my ability to support my hobby.
One of the items I sold was an Atari 2600 copy of Defender, complete in box with manual. I sold it for about $20 (plus shipping) on ebay. I paid $1 for it an estate sale... so that is $19 in "capital gains" and "personal income". Well, that copy of Defender has already been taxed. I'm using this example, because the handwritten receipt for it from 1982 for $64.95 plus tax, was in the box. Taxes were paid on that item, at a higher rate mind you, before I was born that helped support the fall of the Soviet Union. Everything I purchased and sold was already taxed in the 1980s. The items I'm selling largely went to video game resellers from what I could tell based off of addresses, where I'm sure taxes will be collected at a retail establishment. The models will probably be consumed by the buyers. So these items are now being taxed 2 or 3 times. On top of that, the 1099 makes it an absolute pain. I will probably end up spending more time on paperwork than I did buying, selling, wrapping, and shipping by the time I'm done.
I'm going to probably continue using ebay this year because I'm already comitted to the 1099 but I'm done December 31st. Invest/short sell accordingly.
Couple of things to unwind.
Your $19 is taxed either as capital gains OR personal income based on the length held and asset class, not both.
Second, sales taxes are not paid On items. Sales Tax is a tax on the transaction and is based on the value of the transaction.
So products are not 'really' taxed multiple times. A little esoteric I know.
Why is it controversial having to pay tax on profit? Isn’t this a core US value?
When I became a US citizen, the English test sentence that I had to write to pass the test was:
“We pay taxes”.
If you make a profit selling something on Ebay and you call yourself a patriot, “You pay taxes”. Simple as that.
My bigger concern--and the reason I stopped using Ebay after December 31st--is that they need your Social Security number to report your sales. That, coupled with the fact that they already have my bank info, basically gives them the keys to my very small kingdom. One successful hacker and I could get wiped out. Then I really won't have to worry about paying taxes anymore.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:One of the items I sold was an Atari 2600 copy of Defender, complete in box with manual. I sold it for about $20 (plus shipping) on ebay. I paid $1 for it an estate sale... so that is $19 in "capital gains" and "personal income". Well, that copy of Defender has already been taxed.
You don’t have to report this. It would have to accumulate to more than $600 in sales before you’re technically supposed to report it.
Quoted from GregCon:Chuck, if you're trying to spread actual information, you're not doing a good job of it. It HASN'T always been that way. There did exist a time in history when every bit of income was NOT taxable. And even after the advent of forced socialism, many of the 'rules' weren't enforced...so that's pretty close to not being a rule at all. It's only very recently, thanks to certain unidentifiable groups of human-like organisms, that these rules are being enforced. Perspective is an important part of being 'actual'.
Fair enough. I stand corrected. Yes, income tax has not always existed.
As a freelance designer, all of my income is 1099, and I navigate offsetting the “profit” with every expense I can find. I keep receipts for absolutely everything that I can conceivably say was an expense( gas, meals, soft/ hardware etc). It’s a business and that’s what I have to do.
What’s interesting is the way the new $600 reporting threshold in essence turns our hobbies into businesses. Previously, unless serious money was moving around, the gov would have no real insight into your hobby buying and selling. Sure you probably made some money on a game sale, but it also probably shook out with the countless other purchases and upkeep over time.
Now, if I sell games and parts that I’ve had for years, and receive payment with a cash app, the gov is getting the 1099 showing that, and the onus of proof of profit/ loss is on me, regardless if I kept track of purchase prices, gas, parts, maintenance and every other expense involved with owning and enjoying the item. Without treating it as a business and keeping perfect records, it’s nearly impossible to offset the sale price in a way that an auditor would approve.
This reporting can currently be sidestepped by just doing cash on glass. That is, unless you then deposit the money into your bank account while also having more than $10k in non-payroll deposits over the course of the year. As soon as you meet the $10k in deposits threshold, the same bill that is mandating the cash app reporting is also mandating your bank to report your deposit and withdrawal amounts to the IRS. This reporting threshold was originally $600, but was walked back to $10k after pressure.
Moral of the story, your hobby is now a business whether you like it or not.
Quoted from chuckwurt:You don’t have to report this. It would have to accumulate to more than $600 in sales before you’re technically supposed to report it.
Which I did after hitting $1400 in sales off of a day of lucky estate sale picking and listing things on ebay. My hobby and experiment to show my 8 year old how people can hustle to make money is now a pain in the ass.
Quoted from BeachPickle:Moral of the story, your hobby is now a business whether you like it or not.
Always should have been. The Europeans have been paying more via VAT for quite some time.
We need to get serious about taxes in this country. Do you really need to make 200k per year? At one time the top rate was ~ 80%. Let's get it back up there, and also eliminate the inheritance tax exclusion. You didn't earn daddy's millions, so pay your tax. Gotta sell the mansion? Too bad.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Which I did after hitting $1400 in sales off of a day of lucky estate sale picking and listing things on ebay. My hobby and experiment to show my 8 year old how people can hustle to make money is now a pain in the ass.
Yep. Definitely more of a pain than before.
Quoted from galore2112:Why is it controversial having to pay tax on profit? Isn’t this a core US value?
When I became a US citizen, the English test sentence that I had to write to pass the test was:
“We pay taxes”.
If you make a profit selling something on Ebay and you call yourself a patriot, “You pay taxes”. Simple as that.
Because it is more complex than "just pay taxes".
I think most don't have an issue paying taxes to fund something they believe in/agree with. The issue arises from decades of very wasteful spending - and that's before you get to the things people actually care about. I for one think teachers and police are very under paid, but tons of tax dollars are given to them every year. The issue is in many cases, the bulk of those funds do not actually go to the grunts in the world, it gets dolled out in ways that make people palm their face. Other issues are all the money that goes to help other countries, when the perspective for many here in the US feel that money should be helping our citizens rather than others. And...that is just drop in the bucket of all the things people disagree on.
IMO one of the biggest wastes of how tax dollars (for funding) is the 'you have to use everything you budgeted for this year, or you don't get it next year' rule. My time in the military also showed me how wasteful and...frankly...how much palm greasing is done when it comes to who decides where tax dollars go.
Quoted from Zablon:IMO one of the biggest wastes of how tax dollars (for funding) is the 'you have to use everything you budgeted for this year, or you don't get it next year' rule.
Not really weighing in on other points of discussion of this thread, but that is one way in which government is operating like a business (which many feel it should). Every company I've worked for has department budget's and that is exactly how they operate. If they don't spend full budget they will get less the next year. Have never understood that one...
Quoted from fallout-ts:Not really weighing in on other points of discussion of this thread, but that is one way in which government is operating like a business (which many feel it should). Every company I've worked for has department budget's and that is exactly how they operate. If they don't spend full budget they will get less the next year. Have never understood that one...
Yeah, I know it is mostly universal, but I also never understood it. It forces people to waste money.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I guess I'm never selling a pinball machine on Ebay. Last month I took my son to some estate sales to look for comics for him, and happened upon some old video games in boxes and some old Warhammer sets. After dropping $100, I have sold them for $1500 on ebay over the course of the month (easy money). I just got a notice that I had sold too much, and they were sending me a 1099. Ebay makes selling the small stuff relatively easy (although I still hate the post office), but now they want you to pay taxes on private party sales for used stuff like pinball machines? Count me out.
Do you have a store? I was under the impression that if you are cleaning out your stuff (like a garage sale) you would not have to get a 1099K and pay taxes, the only people that got a 1099K were the ones that 'made a business of it'.
Either way it sucks, and will just have people stop selling on ebay and move to other sites.
Thanks for posting...next time I list on ebay, will definitely make me think twice.
Quoted from Methos:Always should have been. The Europeans have been paying more via VAT for quite some time.
We need to get serious about taxes in this country. Do you really need to make 200k per year? At one time the top rate was ~ 80%. Let's get it back up there, and also eliminate the inheritance tax exclusion. You didn't earn daddy's millions, so pay your tax. Gotta sell the mansion? Too bad.
The government prints copious amounts of money from thin air, this is about impoverishing the public.
Quoted from robnotto:Do you have a store? I was under the impression that if you are cleaning out your stuff (like a garage sale) you would not have to get a 1099K and pay taxes, the only people that got a 1099K were the ones that 'made a business of it'.
Either way it sucks, and will just have people stop selling on ebay and move to other sites.
Thanks for posting...next time I list on ebay, will definitely make me think twice.
You definitely need to read up on the new law. Everyone is getting a 1099 if you use one payment service for more than $600 in sales. There is no exclusion because you don't own a business. By selling more than $600, you are now receiving a 1099. You can use another site if they use a different payment processor (like ebay and Paypal), but then you reset the $600 limit. It's not just an eBay thing
Quoted from Methos:Always should have been. The Europeans have been paying more via VAT for quite some time.
We need to get serious about taxes in this country. Do you really need to make 200k per year? At one time the top rate was ~ 80%. Let's get it back up there, and also eliminate the inheritance tax exclusion. You didn't earn daddy's millions, so pay your tax. Gotta sell the mansion? Too bad.
Spoken like a true bootlicker!
The current law applies to everyone. Whether you have a store or whether you sold one item that has been in your basement for years collecting dust. If it's over $600 and you received electronic payment, you're getting a 1099.
Now whether that's fair or not (considering the widget you sold had tax paid when it was originally purchased) is immaterial. Should the gov should get a taste of the profit (if any) inasmuch as they didn't help you haul it up out of your basement, help you clean it up, help you take pics and advertise it for sale, or help you haul it to the buyers house? In fact, they didn't do squat to assist you with the sale. And also consider that the person who bought it from you paid for it with ALREADY taxed dollars?? Whether all of that is fair or not is up to every individual to determine. But it is the law as of this year for sales over $600. Whether you think it is fair or not.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Which I did after hitting $1400 in sales off of a day of lucky estate sale picking and listing things on ebay. My hobby and experiment to show my 8 year old how people can hustle to make money is now a pain in the ass.
Congrats, your 8 year-old now also understands how taxes work. A good learning opportunity all around.
Quoted from Flyfalcons:Congrats, your 8 year-old now also understands how taxes work. A good learning opportunity all around.
Yes, lets motivate my child not to work hard.
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