(Topic ID: 193270)

Snow Derby gottlieb lap unit q


By trueno92

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 65 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by trueno92
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago

Sorry, I keep forgetting that the wiper simply repeats itself making it 2 X 10 steps for each full rotation.

I have just always thought of it as a 10 step stepper since that's how t performs.

#52 1 year ago

Haha thanks fellas!

The pic I posted is actually what I'm looking for. Mine has a pcb and wipers closing both sides with only 1 leaf switch on the bottom.

I'll try to get a pic

#53 1 year ago

Sorry. Got tied up tonight. I'll look at it tomorrow
M

#54 1 year ago

OK - here is mine from the snow queen - you mentioned earlier: " It is plugged in, so that leads me to think its been swapped out and it doesn't latch into the relay chassis like in the pics, its screwed into the bottom of the playfield."

do not you have the relay "chassis" to clip it into? I believe there are 3 other relays attached to
that chassis

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#55 1 year ago

Those pics are great.

Mine has the chassis and all the other relays. Everything looks totally stock down to the labels still attached to everything.

Heads up, may need a spinner too... and then have everything shipped out to Canada.

Help!

#56 1 year ago

Oddly, what I don't get is how come my wiper pcb does the same thing with closed at all positions except 0, wouldn't the overall expected behavior be the same?

#57 1 year ago

In theory, it should be about the same. But it may be something subtle like a timing thing or how much current the wiper/pcb combo can handle.

Its possible that one of the two circuits is still made when the other is also still made, causing the carry over. The leaf switches riding the valleys and hills of the cams might insure the "Break before Make" style principle that this circuit might require?

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from trueno92:

Those pics are great.
Mine has the chassis and all the other relays. Everything looks totally stock down to the labels still attached to everything.
Heads up, may need a spinner too... and then have everything shipped out to Canada.
Help!

I think I have a spinner left. have to check
send me a PM with your address so I can check on shipping rate too.
M

#59 1 year ago

Apparently I don't have access privileges to send you a pm...

Email me?
Trueno92@gmail.com

Hope you get this!

1 week later
#60 1 year ago

So guys, thanks very much to Mike for the relay assembly. It looks to be in solid shape and all original!

I have adjusted the spring a bit to make sure the relay coil can snap back after advancing the gear.

Looks to be low mileage as well with the wiper disc still having really round contacts. The switches underneath look to open and close when they should.

Even the cotter pin was included so I'm going to get this in place and report back!

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#61 1 year ago

For reference, my old relay.

Notice the change in wiring for the coil.

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#62 1 year ago

Out of curiousity, what prevents the lap scoring when the relay advances and the switch passes from 9 to 0 position on the AS relay?

I know the bonus scoring counts down, but on ball 1-3, laps will sometimes run on over bonus countdown. And this triggers an extra lap... only sometimes?!

#63 1 year ago

Update with confirmation of CACTUSJACKS schematic read, first with the AS RELAY, and then with the lapcounter Q RELAY.

GUESS WHAT? the vids online do not depict proper operation! Adjustment of the q relay results in my video linked here!!

1 week later
#64 1 year ago
Quoted from LEE:

If you watch the video of what you call "Normal Operation" the ball 1, 2, & 3 50 pt bonus count adds a 10 pt spot to the lap as the bonus counts down.
I'm not entirely sure if this correct, but I will say that my very own Snow Derby does this as well. This only occurs during a 50 point bonus count(ball 1, 2, 3 on 5 ball setting).
My view is that it may possibly add 50 points to a score and that is not substantial enough to worry about.
Although I do suspect the AS relay may be in need of tweaking still.
Or, maybe Snow Derby just does this.
Any other owners wish to chime in?
Fun fact;
Snow derby was the first bonus game!
And they had to make it complicated by having it 50, 100, and 200 points per bonus.

so.. i had it working correctly, or so i thought.

it appears there are a couple switches that can be responsible for this.

1, lap count relay.. the relay should hold in to countdown and score to register (50pts per spot) but when the relay disengages it will trigger the spot to advance

2. there is a switch on the credit motor that is triggered by a lower saw-tooth type of gear and its the 5 teeth advance that count up the 50 pt score when the lap bonuses are countdown.

this credit motor switch stack is also responsible for advancing the PLAYER unit..

I have only been able to adjust the game so that the credit motor will NOT advance the spot bonuses, however that also affects the player unit solenoid from advancing correctly.. and it will only weakly pulse and miss the scoring between players.

so... with that said, I believe normal operation is just to advance the spot bonus with the lap countdown, as adjustment of the opposite is just too intermittent.

ALSO, the AS relay is only responsible for the spot location - advancing on every 10pt and returning to home on reset.

1 week later
#65 1 year ago

updating this:

the mini stepper was actually incorrect for this game.

a fellow on pinside graciously shipped me the exact unit I needed FOR FREE, and with some adjustment, and a quick transplant of parts from my super low mileage Match Stepper, I had a perfectly working and adjusted unit.

It played good, but i i noticed some things not making sense.
1. score reel on 10's would sometimes skip ahead on bonus countdown.
2. on ball 1-3 the spot advance would sometimes continue advancing on bonus countdown.

step 1 would be an easy fix but a lot of diagnosis.. as I didn't think of looking at the reels first. i cleaned it, and made sure it moved freely, checked the 10pt relay etc. it turns out all that it needed was the decagon spring to be slightly bent to stop the wheel from bouncing ahead on recoil.

after a few plays, it looked good and started to accurately keep score again

step 2, the spot advance had my pulling my hair out and I eventually gave up thinking it was just too old or something that I don't know was out of adjustment and I could not understand how to repair it.

Turned out I eneded up breaking a brass tongue on the credit unit and it controlled a switch stack that 1, counts score, 2 advances the player unit between balls played and 3. advances the Spot advance.

I didn't understand how this worked, and didn't realize that it connects more than just a single circuit but a series of them. I bent some metal to fix the tongue and regapped the switch stack. This got things going again and the scores on the 50pt wouldn't score.

Then i remember this:

Quoted from CactusJack:

But it is the 9th position switch that is going to produce our LAP (Bonus) advance step up. This can only happen if the M relay (10 Points) is energized (Green and White/Orange switch). Obviously, if Bonus Collect value is 50 points, the M relay is going to close this switch during bonus collect.

I regapped the 50pt switches and checked the 10's relay as the 50pt must cross into the 10pt to ring out the 10pt relay 5x.
After that, and an hour of play, the game OPERATES PERFECTLY.

its scoring properly, its bonus countdown is correctly triggering now, as it was missing the occasional bonus step up. I think that switch stack mentioned earlier has to be open for the lap bonus to work correctly.

Oh and finally, the spot advance HOLDS on the bonus countdown for balls 1-3. It works better than any of the existing video examples on youtube!!

SO THANK-YOU GUYS, for helping me get this to better-than-expected performance, as it went from, "maybe i'll get it working"
to
"well, maybe i can get the rubber replaced"
to
"well its ok if it doesn't score right"
to
"yeah, the bonus lap thing doesn't stop right, is inconsistent.. its 47 yrs old."
to
"wtf is wrong with this thing, is THAT supposed to happen?"
to
"ok, i fixed it!"
to
"ok i broke this and how did THAT get out of adjustment"
to
"ok I fixed this and the other thing that i thought i fixed last week!"
to
"ok its finally playing AS IT LEFT THE FACTORY!!"

THANKS!

I'll link up a gameplay video in the coming days!

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There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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