(Topic ID: 263926)

Smoking TOTAN


By Drake88

24 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 days ago by Drake88
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 24 days ago

So.... I found a Tales of the Arabian Nights game a couple weeks ago on Pinside, drove the long drive to buy it and commenced repairing things. It played but the spiral ramp diverter coil was burned and froze and it almost looked like someone used a fire extinguisher on that spot. Ramp was garbage anyway so I got all those new parts, took it all apart and cleaned the playfield real good. I should mention that the quick test said “ramp diverter broke“, and “magnet broke”. It also said check two switches that I resoldered, and they were fine. (Oh and genie magnet hole broke, but it works fine). Got it all together and found that the magnet was just unplugged, so... everything worked great for two days. Only fault listed now was genie hole broke, and it wasn’t.
Today I was changing some backglass lights with the machine on and suddenly smoke and hissing from the power board, as one of large capacitors swelled and split...
WHY???! Now i don’t want to change anything out without knowing the cause, and I should mention that it’s a newer or at least not original board...
Can someone please advise me on where to begin?? Thanks!

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#2 24 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:

Can someone please advise me on where to begin?? Thanks!

I'd start by checking the transistor that drives that magnet. It was unplugged for a reason.

LTG : )

#3 24 days ago

also get rid of the aftermarket board.

#4 24 days ago

LTG Alright I will. I’m not familiar enough with what happened yet to see if the magnet circuit would have reason to melt that cap...?

#5 24 days ago

Astill... alright I could attempt to do that, but is that probable cause though? thanks!

#6 24 days ago

Seems to be the capacitor for 20V.
Check diodes D201-204 for shorts
Check flashers that could touch a coil.

wpc95 20V.jpg

#7 24 days ago

Zaza okay I’ll do that! Do you mean flasher bulb sockets located near any and all coils then? could I have triggered it by changing bulbs it that moment?

#8 24 days ago

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Exploding_or_Damaged_15.2C000uf_Capacitor_at_C11_.28C10_on_WPC-95.29

<shameless plug>My reproduction board (still working through it) has the diode to prevent this.</shameless plug>

#9 24 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:

Do you mean flasher bulb sockets located near any and all coils

Yes, when those 2 power rails touch, it can smoke the capacitor.

#10 24 days ago

Okay thanks to all! Thanks Dumbass! Zaza, ... unfortunately it will have to wait for me to get to taking any checks. Especially if I have to take out diodes to check them?? Oh and sorry I see that I may have inadvertently swiped your player initials “ZAZ”.! Been using it for years since my daughter for some reason, changed Dad to Zaz

#11 24 days ago

Double check the connectors. I forget the exact details but if you mix two up keyed alike it will put 50v+ across a capacitor only rated for 25v or so.

#12 24 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:

unfortunately it will have to wait for me to get to taking any checks. Especially if I have to take out diodes to check them

All diodes can be checked in circuit using J128-1 to ground and TP7, then reversing leads and rechecking J128-1 to ground and TP7. No need to remove anything other than the J128 connector

#13 24 days ago

No board plugs had been disconnected since I’ve had it ..
Thanks Pin Guy!! I’ll post what I find when I’ve investigated it all

#14 24 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

All diodes can be checked in circuit using J128-1 to ground and TP7, then reversing leads and rechecking J128-1 to ground and TP7. No need to remove anything other than the J128 connector

Meter set to diode test of course

#15 24 days ago

I’ve just read the PinWiki link above and it mentions a potential cause being a shorted flipper coil diode... I had just rebuilt them and had even more recent to the melting beginning, adjusted them. So maybe it’s that feeding back higher voltage or is that a different capacitor??

#16 24 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:

No board plugs had been disconnected since I’ve had it ..

Please don't take this the wrong way ...

I've had friends call me to look at their machine that they just picked up that was working when they inspected it (or it was claimed working by the seller). Just because you didn't disconnect any plugs or anything doesn't mean they have been connected correctly.

For those that don't have an actual game to consult I would take a nice clear and lit picture of the connectors at the lower end of the power board with a focus on those connectors at the left side. That capacitor sure looks like it probably had the polarity reversed which is what the Pinwiki link describes. +50V sent down the +25V source causing a reverse in the polarity of the positive and negative of C10 and therefore causing what you've seen.

I'm just trying to be helpful. I don't know your knowledge or experience.

#17 24 days ago

Not at all!! I will take photos for sure! I guess I thought you meant I may have crossed them just previous to the melting! We played about 50 games in three days use . I have some knowledge even to component level (old navy equipment) but certainly not enough to know what so many of you pin guys do!

#18 24 days ago

Here’s some shots of connections
Also any thoughts on why the duct tape on those ic chips on the other board? Seems like they’d be warm ...

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#19 24 days ago

So....I may be running you down a rabbit hole but I have a similar experience with Gilligan's Island and never did sort it out totally Smoked the 20v cap (C11) and stunk up the place. Ended up being the island motor but just implemented the diode on the resistor and it cleaned everything up. Have a read, about half way down.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-bsd-pdb-issue-blown-c11

#20 24 days ago

I read quite a bit of that post thanks! I should definitely put the diode on the large resistor before it’s over. I played at least fifty games after I “fixed it” and hadn’t disconnected any cables. So I’d assume that if they were crossed that would immediately blow the cap, or very soon after?? I had to tighten the bats on the flippers that I’d done a rebuild on, and I’m hoping I may have bent a diode to short on the coil!? Haven’t checked yet, but I played one long game after I adjusted the bats and then ten minutes later while looking in the box it melted.

#21 24 days ago

I'd like to see a close-up of J117. On the photo it looks like the flasher supply is plugged into J117. It belongs in J134.
This could be the reason the capacitor is cooked.
J117.jpg

#22 24 days ago

If zaza is in the house, I’m Following!

#23 23 days ago

There’s a plug pushed on j34 with no wires attached. The plug on j117 has just that one red/wht wire . The single red/white wire is certainly long enough to reach j34, but if it’s the wrong jack and voltage.... would it play so many games plugged this way?
At least 50 games played since Tuesday.
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#24 23 days ago

Ok, as said, that connector with RED-WHT wire belongs at J134. This is the reason why capacitor did "poof"

Replace capacitor, triple check all connectors, check for blown flashers.

#25 23 days ago

Zaza!! Thanks so much!! and I’m just wanting to learn but how did it last so long this way?

#26 23 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:diverter coil was burned and froze

That is exactly the coil (#8) that was connect to flasher power through coil and through flashers #16-#25-#26-#27.

Quoted from Drake88:

how did it last so long this way?

The capacitor can handle some extra voltage but this was about twice the specs. Eventually it fails

#27 23 days ago

Isn't smoking TOTAN legal in Illinois now?

#28 23 days ago

RCA1 yes it is, and might have a bearing on the game acting up?! I mean look at the Sultan on the backglass!!
ZAZA! Thank you so much! I’ll be carefully removing board today to decide if my old micro/miniature circuit board soldering and repair techniques are adequate to do myself, it’s been 40 years ago I was trained on that.
So that new coil I put in the diverter ramp would probably have torched soon?
Thanks again to ALL YOU GUYS!
I’ll let you know what happens next.

#29 23 days ago

The duct tape is covered the Quartz windows on the eproms to prevent accidental erasure (unlikely inside the head but you never know). They shouldn't be getting excessively hot at any rate. You can pull them off and replace with a small label (see my avatar picture for what it looks like)

#30 23 days ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Isn't smoking TOTAN legal in Illinois now?

This thread title reminded me of the redemption game... Smokin' Token which is essentially what you are referring to lol

Smokin' Token (resized).jpg
#31 23 days ago

Slochar and mrclean two thumbs up!!

#32 23 days ago

Argh!!! Now my initial quest for said capacitor 10,000uf 25v radial is turning up a bunch of blanks!
Can someone lead me to a parts supplier for such things??
Thanks

#33 23 days ago

Here’s the closest thing I can find, not sure about 35v instead of 25v or if it physically fits the board...?

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#35 23 days ago

Thanks Edward472 Got it !

#36 23 days ago

Alternative product: https://www.pinballlife.com/capacitor-10000uf-35v.html

I know you have a Rottendog but it's worth iterating (for those with original boards) to be careful if those capacitors are radial snap-in. There's a risk of pulling the plated through hole when removing the capacitor. If you do pull the through then either repair the continuity or place a jumper between the points that require continuity.

#37 23 days ago

might want to double check that the lead pitch is the same as an original WPC board. I think its 10mm for most capacitors in that physical shape.

#38 23 days ago
Quoted from Drake88:

Here’s the closest thing I can find, not sure about 35v instead of 25v or if it physically fits the board...?

I would actually go with the 35V one but you will have to measure the diameter of what you currently have and compare it to the specs for the new one.

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1 week later
#39 10 days ago

Sorry to not have responded for so long, I had some health issues had to deal with..
Thanks for all the help, the TOTAN is up and kicking butt after receiving the replacement capacitor, soldering it in place,
and following ZAZA's catch, connecting the plug at J134 instead of J117 it had been plugged into.

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