(Topic ID: 154591)

Smoke and burned LM339-what next?

By WesleyCowan

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

DSC_5858_(resized).JPG
DSC_5857_(resized).JPG
DSC_5858_(resized).JPG
#1 8 years ago

Was in the middle of a game of Safe Cracker and the game suddenly reset. Then I could smell smoke and naturally turned off the machine. I could smell something burning and discovered smoking coming from a LM339 an opto voltage comparitor for the opto board underneath the playfield. It's on U1. I can get a new LM339 to replace the old one. But I'm wondering if a short or some other electrical issue was likely to have caused the chip to die? Or just age and fatigue. Last thing I want to do is to replace it and have this happen again and damage the board or game. Especially if someone here in the know recommends me to rule out other likely issues first.

Game had been playing fine and I haven't done any work recently on it. My son played about 15+ games the evening before with no issues at all.

#2 8 years ago

I would start at your Power Supply and get readings on all of your power going out. Then work your way toward Opto board from there. You need clean 12v to run those. A spike on that line could have blown it. But 1st step A.S.A.P. (always start at power).

Then we can work towards other stuff.

#3 8 years ago

Use a socket and replace it. There's no good way to know via analysis. Parts sometimes just die.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#4 8 years ago

Beat to the post on both. Pull it and put in a socket it. Check the voltage going to the circuit.

One extra. Make sure where the optos are mounted one isn't shorted against anything.

#5 8 years ago

In taking the board out of the game I discovered the chip not only burned, but a bit of the board as well around the chip.

#6 8 years ago

Post a pic Wesley. Let's see what we've got.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 8 years ago

Here's a few pics.

DSC_5858_(resized).JPGDSC_5858_(resized).JPG

DSC_5857_(resized).JPGDSC_5857_(resized).JPG

DSC_5858_(resized).JPGDSC_5858_(resized).JPG

#8 8 years ago

In case I need to replace the board, I've been looking at the usual and beyond pinball parts and board dealers and have found no one that has one in stock currently.

#9 8 years ago

wow.. the solder job on the pin leads sucks all over.. and the resistors no less too. So many dry holes. If thats factory.. yuk

That chip took some serious current. Make sure no one overfused the Power Driver board..

Maybe high voltage somewhere shorted to one of the Opto leads feeding into J2.

The chip only connects to the Switch rows, power from the regulator, and the opto leads.

Check your power regulator.. check your fuses on the PDB.. then look for a short to the switch rows or from the opto recievers. That kind of current would have had to go through something else too. Look at the schematic for which row feeds those pins on U1 (2,3,4, 11,12,13) and trace back from there.

#10 8 years ago

I'm going to go take out all of the fuses on the power board and elsewhere since I just bought this game and make sure all of the correct ones are installed. Should have done this earlier.

Well I'm going to have a tech come out and see if he can find a short that caused this mess. Not sure if he'll be willing to try and fix the board or if I'll need to send it off to a board repair expert.
Just in case I've also been looking everywhere online, even putting out wanted ads, but NO ONE in the US or overseas seems to have this board in stock. Or the updated one that Great Lakes Modular sold in the past that's an updated version. Bummer!

1 week later
#11 8 years ago

I think the board looks much worse than it really is, I'm sure its fixable.

#12 8 years ago

This one looks to be available. All parts are included, even the game ROM, which you have to specify.

http://www.twobits.com/WPC/

#13 8 years ago

Agree with flynn on this one. The wave soldering on that board SUCKS.

Safe Cracker is WPC-95, and you said you had a reset, so make sure you check diodes D7, D8, D9, D10, filter capacitors C9 and C1; and connector J129 on the driver board. Pull the driver board out of the game and check to make sure you have no cracked or cold solder joints on the solder side of the board on those diodes and capacitors.

It would be interesting to find out what caused that LM339 to self-destruct like that. Had to be a direct short somewhere, maybe in the IC itself.

The board IS repairable, though.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This one looks to be available. All parts are included, even the game ROM, which you have to specify.
http://www.twobits.com/WPC/

oh crap....sorry. I was thinking of the wrong game!!
apologies!!

#15 8 years ago

If its the 10 opto board you need (not familiar w/ SC) johns arcade in australia just got a batch in

www.johns-arcade.com

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from Thrillhouse:

If its the 10 opto board you need (not familiar w/ SC) johns arcade in australia just got a batch in
http://www.johns-arcade.com

Yup and have one on order. Am also going to try and get the original board repaired.
Now my big concern is finding the short or issue that caused the board to fry. I certainly will take into looking at what Flynnibus and Swanng suggested. Thanks for those and everyone who's responded! Obviously not a cause of just throwing in a new or fixed board w/o doing a lot of detailed work to figure out a problem with the game.
Stinks I haven't been able to play it in about 2 weeks. Just recently purchased it and only pin I've been able to get my teenage son to play in quite awhile. He loves beating the board game and winning tokens and he's won 4x's more than me! Also died just a few days before my 50th birthday, I think there's some irony there somewhere.

#17 8 years ago

Discovered that the chip on a different board (the CPU) has a slightly burned IC at U23. It's IC74HC237 which I do have a replacement one at home. So more than just one board/IC involved.

#18 8 years ago

The HC237 on the MPU board is part of the switch matrix columns IIRC.
Better check out the ULN2803 just under it too.

Your opto board is entirely repairable. The traces will be delicate.
You can send it to me for repair if you'd like.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

Am also going to try and get the original board repaired.

If you want, you can send me the toasty opto board and I'll repair it for you; it really doesn't look that bad. PM me if you need a repair guy.

#20 8 years ago

"The HC237 on the MPU board is part of the switch matrix columns IIRC.
Better check out the ULN2803 just under it too."

It appears ULN2803 is burnt too.

#21 8 years ago

You've likely got solenoid voltage shorted to the switch matrix somewhere.

Check anywhere there is a solenoid near an opto. SC has a lot crammed into that tiny cabinet. Look at the token tubes too!

1 week later
#22 8 years ago

Tech came out eliminated short, changed a fuse, new ULN2803, checked out other things with DMM and put opto board in and game is working. Wasn't as easy as I making it sound as it took awhile to eliminate various errors and things happening but bottom line is the game's working again.

#23 8 years ago

Where was the short?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
9,999 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Royal Oak, MI
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
 
From: $ 110.00
Playfield - Other
Arcade Upkeep
 
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 209.00
$ 109.95
Electronics
PinSound
 
$ 79.00
Boards
PinballReplacementParts
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Richfield, MI
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 
From: $ 27.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
 
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 37.50

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/smoke-and-burned-lm339-what-next and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.