Smaug looks decent. But yeah, I was looking forward to the "different ways Smaug interacts with the ball". Turns out, he doesn't. So this highly innovative toy is nothing like JJP suggested it would be. Wtf? I don't care for lame excuses, bottom line is, they didn't get it done.

You are totally missing the point here. JJP made it all about Smaug. They announced an innovative toy that would interact with the ball in more than one way. Now here it is and it does basically nothing that Jack said he would do.
So the licensor didn't let you do cool things with the dragon? I don't care, because it wasn't Warner who made big mouthed promises.

But yeah, at least I get some drop targets. And a book that Bilbo the mentally challenged Hobbit started to write not on the first page, but in the middle.
And all the other great features: shaker and stuff... Hey, it's true, manufacturer XY doesn't even have invisglass for that price!

Give me a break, that's not the point. Jack said innovative and interactive so that's what people expected.

I understand that, thematically, the balls diverted from the upper left rampway are "captured by Smaug". But that's nothing the toy itself does, is it? (Btw. a simple diverter mechanic is still far from what I'd call innovative, but whatever). So at least give me a modelled claw for a diverter and though I might not be overly excited about that, at least the "interactive" part would be true.

https://img-f.pinside.com/201410/1971982/303605.jpg
Call me blind, but I'm not seeing a tail there either.

Obviously at this point I am not saying anything about the game as a whole.
Understand, it's not that talking/taunting and turning isn't great. It's just worlds away from what was advertised. So that's where the disappointment (and I think in some cases anger) is coming from.

_{Post edited by seeker939: Finished last at the spelling B.}

Drop Targets. 4 Bash Toys. Drop Targets. Player controlled diverter and kickback. More drop targets.

So, basically it's drop targets. And may I remind you that Smaug taunts you? Obviously this alone for some folks on here is more than they can handle.

[Edit] I'll just go ahead and say it before someone points out I missed this: The LCD screen. (Not sure what's interactive about it, but still.)

You're looking at that pin and think TEETH on the dragon are what's missing??

Which is what they said about TH. Seriously, dude!

Can't blame it on the license. If you can't do what you hoped to do you gotta come up with something else. I said it before and I'll say it again: interaction with the ball and innovation is what was promised for the Smaug toy. Look again at what was delivered.

But OF COURSE Jack will come through on his promises with the next pin. 3rd table's a charm I guess.

wait.JPG

I'm pretty sure I don't want to buy the "pin that could've been".

Thanks for playing, Jack. Better luck next time!

Quite funny how some individuals are still trying to salvage this trainwreck of a reveal.

We didn't get to see much awesomeness in the TH. Even if the code is gonna be great that's only what you'd expect. Seen that price tag? And been listening to Jack? The whole package should be the best thing in pinball ever.

Because that's not quite how it works.

Besides, I see no reason for having Smaug eat balls. It would've looked like JJP just copied JP. It is only understandable why stuff that don't fit the theme aren't in the game. Jack could've come up with something different though. There have been plenty suggestions.

First of all, who wants to pay $7500+ for a trainwreck that needs to be salvaged by the code when JJP just could and should deliver an overall great game? Ridiculous.

You say LOTR and TH are both bland. I disaggree. LOTR looks way more interesting than TH. Even if you don't like the art you gotta admit it all fits together great. The sword ramp and the center ramp with the ring are simple but very efficient design choices, that together with the other stuff convey theme perfectly well. POTD is lame, but together with the two towers and the Balrog there's still enough going on in the toy department. The game makes you wanna play it.

TH on the other hand has not such intrigue:
* Smaug is not living up to the hype: no interaction on a mechanical level. And although the figure itself doesn't look bad it's nothing special. It wouldn't be an issue if the rest of the table could compensate for that.
* The only innovation are the individual drop targets. They are kinda nice, sure... they're just not THAT nice.
* There's a lot going on UNDER the playfield. Much of it doesn't show. So nothing on the PF looks particularly new, cool or special.
* There's nothing that ties the different elements of the table together. Smaug body? Mountain? Bag End? There's much room for improvement, literally.
* So far the flow of the game seems ok, not great. Half of the center shots don't make it up the ramp and the upper right flipper is completely useless.

I don't understand how JJP could've believed we'd be blown away by this. Show me convincing vids and pics and I will be happy to give TH a chance. But excuses and the smoke screen of upcoming code don't cut it.

Mods? You're kidding, right??

So why don't you head on over to a TBL thread and discuss this for a bit? In case you didn't notice, this thread is for bashing Smaug (even though WB doesn't allow it).

Not a chance. Going back to whitewood won't be happening. I don't think randomly adding new/different game mechanics would be a good idea. At this point they might consider bringing back something they have already tested and know it worked but was cut for some reason. But honestly, other than making the table more appealing visually I don't expect changes.

Get one of the editions with headphone jack. There are plenty to pick from.

McKellen and Cumberbatch won't be doing voice acting for TH, but that's no surprise. But at the reveal JJP said they can get a Smaug voice actor no problem and are also looking for "the best Gandalf" out there.

Obviously Jack better had never announced Smaug features that weren't final. At this point it is what it is. Moving on. At least a tail diverter will integrate the Smaug character more into the gameplay. Maybe JJP are just terrible at the promotion part and there is more stuff coming that will almost magically make TH a must have pin...

Dude. I think it was in March this year when Jack announced - as he was talking about the toys that Matt was creating - that Smaug as a "critical part of the game" was "going to interact with the ball in a couple of ways". Gee, how DID anyone get "Smaug toy interacting with ball" from that?

And I quote Joe Balcer: "The main mechanism is Smaug which will be very interactive."

After making this big secret out of it, what else should customers expect but some really cool mechanism? Most likely something that was never done before, or at least a great new spin on an existing thing. Surely not a svivelling Smaug head and a couple diverters near it.

Why you feel the need to defend the highly misleading advertising of Smaug? Jack said the Smaug toy was gonna "interact with the ball in a couple of ways". The only way that's gonna happen is airballs.

I hope Jack has learned his lesson. Only promise what you can and intend to deliver.

What Jack wrote and what it means. Take it with a grain of salt.

We just completed a very constructive Team Meeting on The Hobbit. The entire Team participated and reviewed the major items in the game that we can make changes to - positive changes that will have an immediate effect of the look, feel, play and Fun Factor of the game.

Ouch, that hurt! We didn't expect customers to hate our game so much. I promise we will change a couple things (like putting in some decals and replace that weird book) but don't hold your breath because most of it is final.

I can say that this was a four hour meeting and probably the most productive meeting in the history of JJP! I feel better - LOL - I see where we are going and it looks great

I'm not sure what we've been doing at all these meetings the past couple years, but for the first time ever it felt like work. The guys reassured me everything's gonna be fine though and that's what I choose to believe.

- I know that we have received many e mails, long e mails and calls from many people who ONLY want us to make GREAT GAMES! That's what we want to make. My VM was 100% full yesterday and I spent hours on the phone with many customers.

Stop bugging me!

We understand completely that we are being held to a higher standard and we should be.

Really, by now we know you think our game sucks.

Again, we brought a development game to Expo. It was not done. It was a little better than a box of lights WOZ was. It is NOT the game we will be putting on the line as finished. We brought it there to be played. Maybe it was setup flat footed too and was not the best representation, my fault.

TH is missing most of the code so let me remind you of the time when you saw WOZ and thought it was crap. (I hope you don't remember how long it took until production from that point.)
I can't really think of anything good so let's just blame it on the table angle, okay? Totally my fault, sorry about that. We good now?

We received much praise but some obvious criticism, it's not done.

I'm gonna go ahead and downplay the shitstorm, basic PR move, you'll understand. Everyone said how the stand up targets are really neat. So shut up already as it is obvious that the CODE is not done.

We are addressing ALL of the concerns we received comments about. There is much we can easily change and easily I say in relative terms. There is some that cannot be changed but the changes we make will be in keeping with many suggestions and we will have a happy result.

I really wish I could do something for you but there's the budget and the licensing
and the upcoming release date... Does it make you feel better if I tell you we've looked into it?
There's an upside to you guys criticizing about every aspect of our game, in that no matter what we will change (mostly the book), in the end we will be able to say we listened to you guys. Not sure about you, but I will be happy.

We strive to listen and to react in a positive way. We respect your opinions as you are the people who put us in business and you are the people who buy and play our games. There are things that could have been better left off this game as they were placeholders (book) and we would have had less grief. I said we will continue to make mistakes, we want to make smaller ones.

If you keep bitching, expect more non-substantial statements like this in the future, you're warned. But it's true, we do need your money so let me apologize vaguely for this slight mishap and all that are to come in advance. You should feel appreciated now.

We all want the same thing - GREAT PINBALL - This is where we are going.

I hear TBL is gonna be awesome - count me in on it!

We have a pinball design and manufacturing company, one of only two or so on Planet Earth. We have amazingly talented designers, programmers, engineers, artists and a factory full of Pinball People building games every day. We strive to do better and be better every day. We thank you for reminding us of this but I can assure you, we live it every day and it will not be forgotten!

I've got the biggest, so won't you shut up already. I really don't need you telling me what to do.

I know, thx. Some notoric optimists seem to disaggree. But at this point JJP can change details or put in things that are already in the works, but not re-design major parts of the game, certainly not Smaug (just for the record, I don't think they should). I think you're right, maybe they could push production a couple weeks, but not months.

I don't hate JJP. I wish them nothing but success with TH. I do think Jack's PR skills are abysmal though.

It's been 2 years. Doesn't seem like they're in much of hurry.

Maybe that style is not for you but obviously with TH that was a design choice from the beginning. There's a lot going on UNDER the PF, so it's not like the toys aren't there. But you are right that with that boring wide space the upper playfield needs to shine all the more.

No. But Jack said something about Smaug taunting you and stealing your ball. We'll see how that turns out.

I've seen enough.