Quoted from musketd:The Hobbit looked ok, but looked nothing like The Big Lebowski
Play both...I feel the opposite now. Maybe playing them will change opinions. I'm still sold on RGB lightshows. They are unparalleled.
(Topic ID: 106454)
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The Hobbit
Jersey Jack, 2016
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Quoted from someoneelse:What's that big black rod in Smaugs' mouth?
It must do something?!??
Lighting?
Quoted from vicjw66:So the licensor won't let Smaug be a bash toy because you are playing as Bilbo? So if Jack just told them you play as Bard there would be no issue? Seriously?
As far as movie narrative goes, it makes sense Smaug isn't a bash toy. Nobody really fights Smaug and bashes him in the movie. On the other hand, not allowing him to pick up or swallow balls is strange although he never eats anything in the movie either I guess. He just murders people with heat, flame, and fire. Shame there is no scale to shoot for the "arrow" kill shot though.
Quoted from jfh:I just got a price on a replacement drop target assembly for STLE - $195. Retail and replacement cost, but about double what I expected.
For a single drop??
CraZ4Pin, SilverBallz, and starbase are/were the top 3 JJP bashers (I think starbase moved on though). Just get over it guys...I get that you think Jack and/or JJP screwed you at some point, but sheesh, let it go. Move on to better things and let people enjoy the games.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:But you have the best hops in the country over there!
Nope, we do up in the PNW.
Jack told me once that Smaug will grab balls off the wireform and drop them in the subway hole behind him...so there was more interactive plans at SOME point.
Quoted from Hazoff:Way too early to bury any of these pins and as far as TBL goes consider me a rug pisser.
Me too...I'm going to get $hit on by all the TBL fans, but I think that bowling alley is going to suck after playing it 50 times. '$' pun intended. 
Quoted from ozno:LOTR has a great layout. The left ramp is very nice to hit. The middle jump ramp is great and has the eye and a great winding exit. The balrog is a good bash toy and is cleverly hidden away. The tower shot is great. The path of the dead VUK is great and has multiple openings that change depending on mode. the sword ball lock ramp is cool. The shot through hole is cool also.
It does, but many shots are clunky on LOTR. It plays like a white wood to me. Software saved that game along with sound/music. I'm hoping TH doesn't play like a white wood but I know the software and sounds/music will at least rock! Worst case...it's in the same camp as LOTR.
Quoted from Aurich:Did you play it at Expo?
No...I didn't. I could very well be wrong, but it just seems like it would get boring to me. FWIW, I hate ACDCs mini playfield and that stupid Congo one too. Take my opinion with a grain of salt. Everything else seemed pretty awesome on TBL though I think they are being cut more slack than Stern or JJP gets. Rolling rug broke down, car crash wall broke, software crashed a few times (due to too many sounds getting played at once?)...wolves would be picking the bones clean of Stern or JJP if that happened to them.
Quoted from Aurich:They were pre production games. Shit happens on unfinished games, people all know that. From any company. That's one thing you get from a show, people bash on them games, you see how they hold up. You tweak and adjust. They're still running Windows, not even on Linux yet. So it's not just the rules software that isn't done.
And yet, for alpha level games they were really damn sweet. And the bowling mech is very cool, I didn't realize how steep it was until I saw it in person, that part took me by surprise.
Yes, I get that...but still lots of people didn't get that when WOZ was first being shown for example. WOZ was torn up for stupid little crap like we saw here with TBL. It's a love fest, dude! Not that that's a bad thing though. I like all the positivity for once on a game.
Quoted from TaTa:Pretending a diverter is Smaug tail and calling him interactive with the ball is an insult to me. The mountain looks like a cape around Smaugs neck...Count Smaug. What can you possibly do... All you do is hit drop targets and two ramps that are so tight they may as well been one. And that third flipper? Deep rules and code...so you have 28 modes in which most if not all will interact with...that's right...drop targets! Wow that's soooo exciting. I guess one will be...hit right middle target, then hit right FT ramp, wait for CP Smaug to taunt you and redirect through his awesome way of interacting and divert your ball so can hit some more drop targets...
Just wait to see it before you bash, whine, and complain. Let's give it a fair shake. To me the only complete fail is the book. Has to go. And if you don't think Keith Johnson can make 28 modes unique then you haven't played a KJ game...really, you are trying to bash the 28+ modes now?? LOL!!! GTF outta here!
Quoted from TaTa:How can it possibly cost more?
Someone had to design it and test powder/coating colors. Do you think that stuff just happens?
Quoted from TaTa:2
You GTF out of hear. Yes it's easy to do so. I can just look at the empty playfield and see the limitations on what combination can be done...not much. But yhea, I guess you could make infinite amounts of modes. But who wants to hit drop targets all the time. And with this layout, there isn't anyway around them being used in EVERY mode.
I don't get your complaint. *shrug* Most games don't have drop targets at all...let's take LOTR since it is very deep. How many shots does it have (ignoring targets for now)? I count 8. How many does Hobbit have? 7. That's pretty standard. Now, throw in the drop targets and stationary targets behind them as well as the other stationary targets...that's a lot of shots. Add 4 pop-up "trolls" and roll-over buttons. Now we're talking. I personally like drops. You don't have to, but there is a ton to shoot at on this table.
Quoted from Crash:So, getting stoked about your Hobbit pre-order?
Getting? Shoooooot, have been for a while now. 
I'm not worried. WOZ was trashed incessantly even after being released and I think it's one of the best games ever made. With Keefer I'm a believer. 
Quoted from ek77:ST has 7 main shot not counting standups TH has 5 not counting drops and ST is $4000 less expensive.
Where are you getting 5? Not counting the saucers behind the drops? If so then you can't count the vengeance shot behind the drop. Man, you sure try to shortchange TH at every turn...
Quoted from ek77:TH ramp ramp loop loop captive ball ST two loops three ramps ship shot to far left.
Fair enough...away team too.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:When you said "Stern puts out turds that sell on theme alone all the time. "
I think he meant Mustang, Avengers, and XMEN.
Quoted from OldPinster:I was reading other threads and see that it was a company called Back Alley that created Smaug (along with the pop-up figures?) I wonder if this same company created that book as well? JJP seems to have put an awful lot of faith in that company even after the bashing they took previously? I hope they haven't already been planning to use them again on Pat Lawlor's game #3? Anyone know the answer to that? I also wonder if JJP is now relying on this same company to redesign the Smaug area? Hope not.
Matt R of Back Alley is an employee of JJP. Matt owns Back Alley as well. Matt did the sculpt toys for WOZ, Hobbit, and likely Pats game. He's good...don't worry.
Quoted from lowepg:Thats' where I'm worried. I don't see "the bones of a great game." Weak PF art? OK.. I can live with the "licensor handcuffed us" excuse. But the lack of any really interesting looking shots and the brutal Smaug? I don't know that there's enough lipstick to put on that pig.
If JJP were completely free to make changes on the fly, that would be one thing- but we've heard over and over all the restrictions from the license. I think that license agreement handcuffed JJP into a pinball machine whose art/mechanics were dictated by non pinball people.... hard to overcome that.
I think the smart money is flying OUT of this game. Maybe not permanently, but at least until they show its more than a great theme....
Hmmm, I think the layout looks awesome. A little vanilla granted, but awesome. It's basically a fan like AFM, MM, MB but in a widebody with a kickback, drops, spinners, pop-ups, and a captive ball. What's not to like?
Quoted from John_in_NC:I don't think it'll take a year to get this right. We're talking about one feature that could easily be designed and implemented in 3 to 4 weeks. Approvals may be the bottleneck. I doubt a major redesign is called for, some really good suggestions on improving the cosmetics will satiate the majority of naysayers.
...and I think most are already done. What was at expo wasn't final. Several items were missing.
Quoted from OldPinster:Everyone is currently talking about how disappointing the game currently appears (understandably). The really pathetic thing is that nobody is overly disgusted by the annoucement of a new edition. The fact that people actually seem relieved they can "upgrade" to the SE is ludicrous. People are being incredibly gullible!!! There is absolute zero difference to the SE. Not even ONE PENNY more in BOM cost. Not a single penny!! Am I wrong? You just had your "limited edition" dilluted and you are excited about it? Ummm, why? lol ... it's insane what just happened but because the game istelf is so underwhelming that discussion is top priority right now. Helllllo ... you just got SCREWED no matter what happens! Yay!
How did anyone get screwed? The dragon art is better. If anyone thought that a 1500 piece LE was EVER going to appreciate then they need their head checked. For anyone in its the same price. For anyone not in...well, stick with the LE because you're right there isn't any extra "value" there. Zero people got "screwed".
Quoted from Pinchroma:I am supremely honest. I'm telling you flat out the cost difference isn't negligible on the color. everyone knows how anal I am about colors and quality
.
Who's machine have you seen that I've done?
Which looks better Alex? Seaside Bronze or whatever is on the SE?
Quoted from meSz:Alex, tell the truth to all Pinsiders...... you and OldPinster were married in a past life and that is the reason he has this hostility towards you??!?!?!?
On a serious note, so the differences in the SE are
Plaque (should add no cost as this will be on the LE as well just different artwork and verbiage)
Color - two tone powder-coating not available on other editions
Different topper - (again should add no cost as there is a topper on the LE as well just different version on the SE)
Wood apron - Assuming all other editions will be plastic or metal???
Anything else???
Post edited by meSz: added differences
No topper or wood apron on any version.
Quoted from meSz:My bad, I read Alex's post wrong as he was speaking of differences on WoZ. So they only difference is the two-tone powder-coat and some different software (video related) on the THSE ???
I think so...plus a gold colored Smaug on the playfield, which may or may not be an upgrade from red.
Quoted from meSz:Agree, I like the red better than the gold but I like the artwork on the SE better than the LE.
You've seen the gold one? 
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Jacking up prices just because you think your game should and can sell for more can become ripping off customers . Yes JJP is there.
Prices will continue to rise if they keep selling...just how it works. Stop buying, prices may fall.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Because the idea of advancement is blinded by adding a color screen. Which is all well and good, but this is not the next step for the Next level of pinball. p2k was the next step. Others are closer to going to new level. New level means something totally new. Not the same stuff masked with brighter lights and pretty colors.
Have you even played P3?
Ugh...I hated P2k. It was weak. P3 on the other hand looks great, but VERY expensive. I'm surprised you are into it Neo, I mean with the price and all.
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