(Topic ID: 106454)

Smaug toy revealed!

By CraZ4Pin

9 years ago


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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider kcpinballfan.
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#60 9 years ago
Quoted from mummite:

Is that book final and Does smaug interact with the ball at all? hoping we get more videos and pictures of this game in action.

No ball interaction with the smaug toy, just speaking and lights

#65 9 years ago

Smaug looks like he needs more things around him to make it look more like a mountain, it looks very unfinished in my eyes. Looks like he just crawled out from under a rock. That book I hope is just a place holder. Are there supposed to be more plastics or something around smaug and the ramps?

#118 9 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

So, all it does is spin around like the Joker in Batman (BDK) and talk like the Skull from No Fear?... Good thing they kept that under wraps for so long, don't want someone to steal the design and idea

He physically talks, but yeah not much else, im a little bummed. The drops are cool but really they are still just drop targets, there is innovation in the way they work but drop targets have been in pinball for many decades. That book looks very uninspired. I hate to say it but just cause a game weighs more than your last game doesnt mean its better aesthetically. There are two toys on this game, smaug (no ball interaction), and the troll pop ups. Where is the innovation? Only innovation is the independent drop targets. Man this game was hyped so far beyond what it is. Meh

#153 9 years ago

If they knew smaug wasnt gonna interact with the ball and its a blatant ripoff of rudy then they could have atleast made the head move mechanically. The talking is cool no doubt but funhouse is one of my favorite games and its more than the mouth moving that makes rudy cool, his eyes follow the ball add to it you also shoot the ball at his face for interaction. Smaugs mouth moves only, no head movement, no eye movement and what looks like a very small unfinished rock (no mountain) revealing him. I cant quite put my finger on it but it looks very unfinished, theres not enough background dressing to immerse you into believing you are on that mountain up against smaug. Im really very close to canceling and grabbing TBL at ths point, what has me maybe staying is the sound which sounds amazing and the crazy ruleset.

Im probably of the minority but what has me hesitant on TBL besides prIce was during their seminar, im not a fan of the cocky attitudes they have and the insults toward other pin companies. If they deliver an amazing game then it wont really matter because they will have backed up that cockiness. Just my take on the whole situation. No offense to jjp or dutch pinball.

#158 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Are there pictures available of the Gold Smaug and Gold trim?
And if preferred, can you get a 'Red' Smaug in a SE Hobbit?

I think id rather have the smaug artwork with the le side rails, legs and lockbar, dont know if im digging the gold?

#220 9 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Well, if it is done... I think with some really cool mods to 'toy' up the back will pretty it up a lot. Won't add anything to the game play necessarily - nor should it - that I am sure will be fine. But those WOZ 75 version toy additions help the game and I was hoping the hobbit was going to carry that forward and not strip it away. Keeping my preorder as the mods are sure to follow. I hope Matt can do several other pieces like he did for WOZ.

So add another $1000+ in mods to go with a $9000 machine that most people are gonna pay when they should be in the game to begin with?

-1
#253 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I don't really get why Smaug would be "Gold" because he is "Red" in the movies. It makes no sense! Maybe he ate something he shouldn't and turned "goldish yellow" because of it...
Maybe they should make Gandalf African American just because they can and make a special version for it.

Gandalf the black, I like it. Do away with the racist Gandalf the white.

For the pc police im j/k

#255 9 years ago

Looking at that photo of smaug makes me realize that the game version needs teeth badly.

#267 9 years ago
Quoted from seeker939:

You're looking at that pin and think TEETH on the dragon are what's missing??

Maybe you should go back and read all my other criticisms of the game, so no thats not the first thing that needs changed or added, but in that picture the dragon needs teeth.

#271 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Which is why Lawlor #3 is gonna blow your brains out.

Im almost thinking I should pull my preorder and transfer it to pat lawlors game. Would love to see a sneak peak.

#275 9 years ago
Quoted from mummite:

agree! is this a possibility?

Sneak peek isnt a possibility but getting money back for the hobbit is.

#304 9 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Sometimes Pinside is such BS...reading up to this I am thinking "damn...not looking good for second pin" ... then I see the video... WOW it just looks incredible. I was down on it but MAN it looks so cool.
I was thinking "drop targets? like WPT ? meh. ramp like FT ? been there." But look at that playfiled, check out the LCD WOW, that great CLUNK sound when the ball makes the ramps, I mean it looks great to me. I love what Smaug is doing and it would not surprise me if he looks more like a whole dragon with the finished artwork and plastics and side art and what not. I was hoping for a more complete dragon, but he is so cool on the LCD, and I can't tell what it will look like when totally complete.
If you can't tell I am pretty happy about it.

Thats the problem, Jack never made it seem like anymore than this is going into the game. As far as we know this is complete.

#460 9 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

So, what is the missing feature? I'm not gonna play "find the stupidity", so can someone just say?

Who knows? Just seems like one more last ditch effort to keep customers on the hook. If you have information Alex spill it cause this is just getting infuriating.

#476 9 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

My knee-jerk observations are the Smaug is very disappointing. I keep wondering if the 'book' is interactive, which it looks like it is not, and why the PF seems to have so few 'toys' when under the PF is PACKED with things. What do all these things under the PF belong too? Maybe we are all in for a surprise since the game is not finished. It just seems to be a much lower step down from WOZ. I was reluctant to buy this one after buying my WOZECLE, and now I'm glad. I would have been upset with my own decision.

All that stuff under the playfield is the drop targets and pop up targets.

#477 9 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

Does anything pass through Smaugs mouth? Does he fire pinballs? Looks like that how he has been designed or am I totally wrong.

Smaug doesnt interact with the ball

#482 9 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

That makes me very sad...

That was a big part of the initial reveal letdown by many then the lack of other interactive toys made it pure disappointment for a lot of us.

#490 9 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

We've bickered a lot in the past so don't misinterpret this as us picking back up where we left off.
But dude, no riddles, speculation or Easter eggs should be part of an unveiling. In the beginning of the project yeah that's cool but not at this stage.
JJP should release legit no BS info at this stage.
When Stern brings a table to expo it is what it is for the most part & no more or less. Gary also doesn't jump in the forums & tell folks to play the game first, make payments or take down hypothetical cabinet art by excited folks either (while I'm on the Stern vs JJP off topic).
People are right, the 21 almost 22 year old Jurassic T-rex absolutely destroys Smaug from a technical engineering level & the book is a fine element to add to the table but not to showcase as a feature on an $8000 game one must pay for years in advance.
When looking at TH now one could easily think WOZ ran out of money & took features off Hobbit in order to reach completion. Perhaps the state of TH is due to WOZ taking time away from hobbit development? Maybe one could think its a bit of both?
Either way the color palette looks great, the theme is cool & Keith is doing the rules so hopefully some changes are made to really put this game above TBL
Because right now TBL is (to me) more valuable in my basement than additional principal paid towards my mortgage lol. True story... Smaug makes me want to pay the house down.
I think the foundation on Hobbit looks great. If JJP addresses the gripes they will have a slam dunk!

Saying what most have been thinking, thanks pbw79.

#493 9 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Jack is more interested in being the first to do something then being the best.In this game it seems all Jacks energy went to his new JJP patented drop targets and Smaug was a after thought.

Its funny you say that cause I think the drops are cool but nothing truly innovative, independent drops whoopity dooo!

#500 9 years ago

Ok so alex could be talking about Thoarin Oakenshield newton ball assembly and Balin and Radagast ball poppers whatever that is.

#545 9 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I just love playing pinball, all this moaning about machines gets real old guys.

So get off the internet and go play pinball, dont worry about how we feel about the 8 grand we've paid in this incomplete disaster.

#680 9 years ago

Jack you need to make a statement to stop the bleeding. Big decision day for me on whether to bail on the hobbit or stay if Jack clues us in on what more we can expect. Or you can just stay silent and watch all your hobbit dollars go to The Big Lebowski.

IMG_20141019_062400.jpgIMG_20141019_062400.jpg

#716 9 years ago
Quoted from alichino:

Yeah; definitely. There were also a lot of complaints about the layout of ST, though, and how similar it was to STTNG (not to mention AC/DC, T3, etc). Those proved to be unwarranted for most people, though, because even though ST looks just like them, it plays a lot different thanks to some amazing rules by Lyman.
Like you said, waiting and seeing is exactly what I'm saying in regards to the code. Everyone's looking at the drop targets and smaug and the FT ramps and saying, "I can't see how I personally would make rules around them." like you can with normal ramps and bash targets. I'm excited for those reasons, though, because Keith has proven to be a master at coming up with innovative rules for things that no one else really has. EMCB is the most fun MB in WoZ, and it has some complex rules that revolve around the rollovers, which historically haven't been used as anything more than 'This rollover adds bonus'.
Maybe I'm too much of a software guy, but Keith promising 28 modes in The Hobbit was hands down the highlight of the expo for me. That guy is insanely good.

Nobody is arguing that the rules wont be good but you need some wow on the aesthetics of the machine to immerse you into that world or its a failed attempt that likely cant be saved by code atleast I know thats how it is for me.

#831 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

There are many more things to be completed in this game.
How Smaug interacts with the ball, his tail is the diverter on the ramp. The action button was not even on the game at Expo - the finish detail where the mountain is, lots of things. We listen and there could be some more subtle changes as well. The game will be at IAAPA next month - it will be a lot more game then too.....we will listen and react with change but this will be an awesome deep mode based game with a lot going on.

You could have saved a lot of customer frustration by stating this during your seminar. Im hoping the finishing touches on the mountain mean youre gonna actually make it look like a mountain, also make the tail diverter an actual tail because no one is gonna know thats what it is. Would like to see a molded windlance and move the book and actually do something with the bag end area. A question we would like to know is why the $500 price increase to the smaug edition? Can we expect extras for the price increase? Thanks for your time Jack

Id like to add to my post, please change the size of the gold coins, they are way to large comparable to smaug. Also could you please let us know whats the deal with the side decals? Are they easily removable to switch out artwork and also is that the reason for the smaug edition increase because it comes with the upgraded thick side art?

#833 9 years ago
Quoted from seeker939:

McKellen and Cumberbatch won't be doing voice acting for TH, but that's no surprise. But at the reveal JJP said they can get a Smaug voice actor no problem and are also looking for "the best Gandalf" out there.

I really hope they find some good impersonators.

#848 9 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You could have saved a lot of customer frustration by stating this during your seminar. Im hoping the finishing touches on the mountain mean youre gonna actually make it look like a mountain, also make the tail diverter an actual tail because no one is gonna know thats what it is. Would like to see a molded windlance and move the book and actually do something with the bag end area. A question we would like to know is why the $500 price increase to the smaug edition? Can we expect extras for the price increase? Thanks for your time Jack
Id like to add to my post, please change the size of the gold coins, they are way to large comparable to smaug. Also could you please let us know whats the deal with the side decals? Are they easily removable to switch out artwork and also is that the reason for the smaug edition increase because it comes with the upgraded thick side art?

Quoted for response

#854 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Jack would you mind responding to my concerns I posted a few posts ago? Thanks

#875 9 years ago
Quoted from Tekman:

At expo, it was easy for me to visualize how the Smaug body will cover much of the ramp and look cool. My immediate concern was the back right pop bumper area. The barrel pops are lost and absolutely no way to tell the area is supposed to be water. It seems like it needs a waterfall with rocks plastic/sculpture tall enough to fill the back right and the barrels need to be higher to see them (like the trees in WOZ). The cheap sling axes and ugly VUKs also made me cringe. I'm wondering why the PF is not further along at this point. It's supposed to be the software to focus on and not hardware at this point. No matter how much code and modes thrown at it, it can't make a bland playfield look any better. I would also like to see a pattern cut in the metal ramps for a better look and for lighting effects. I'm looking forward to what JJP is going to do to pull all this together on only two months.

I totally agree with the pop bumper figures being raised up and adding a waterfall to make it actually fit back there. Good call.

#905 9 years ago

Im letdown by smaug but I also wonder how much better and immersive it will be when we get to see the light show that will be added to it and playing with the room lights out.

#938 9 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Smaug still needs teeth. The current toy looks like a baby or Muppet Smaug.

I agree, needs teeth badly

#979 9 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Let's say Smaug gets a body, and tail and whatever we think will flesh it all out; I still can't visualize how any of this works out well... Is his head poking through a rock wall or what? Or is he Count Smaug? And when his head isn't exposed, and we're staring at a blank rock blob, he's then a headless dragon or something?

I think making the rock hes attached to black will make it look like hes coming out a hole in a cave of the mountain, that whole mechanism needs to turn around super fast to look like smaug is coming out of the mountain as to not look like hes mounted to a cave wall. I also think seeing little parts of his body exposed wont look bad if they use my suggestions above. They also need teeth on him to make him look like less of a Muppet and more menacing. If the game turns out great with this being mediocre model im sure someone will make a better smaug head. (though I think its ridiculous to have to buy a mod to fix something on a 9k machine).

The book is staying in the machine but moving, a couple little things will be added but the majority of the money was spent on mechanical and electrical and not so much aesthetics. Dont expect much but a few finishing touches.

#984 9 years ago

You could have saved a lot of customer frustration by stating this during your seminar.

"I told many people and there is not enough time to say everything during a one hour presentation"

Im hoping the finishing touches on the mountain mean youre gonna actually make it look like a mountain, also make the tail diverter an actual tail because no one is gonna know thats what it is.

"I'm sure everyone will know what the diverter on the ramp is - Smaug's Tail....."

Would like to see a molded windlance and move the book and actually do something with the bag end area.

"There is a ton of money in this game. It's in electronics and mechanisms, especially."

A question we would like to know is why the $500 price increase to the smaug edition? Can we expect extras for the price increase? Thanks for your time Jack

"There is no price increase for people who ordered LE games. The idea was to give people a choice up front to have Smaug more prominent on the sides of the game. I would guess we would make the Gold or Red Smaug a choice for those who want Smaug in whatever color they prefer."

Id like to add to my post, please change the size of the gold coins, they are way to large comparable to smaug.

"I guess this is an Artist's view, everything is subject to criticism. The size of Gold Coins is a detail, yes, does it make the game more fun to play? We will discuss it."

Also could you please let us know whats the deal with the side decals? Are they easily removable to switch out artwork and also is that the reason for the Smaug edition increase because it comes with the upgraded thick side art?

"The thick side art is an option available for purchase at close to our cost for the five pieces. The direct print cabinets could not be repaired once damaged so we came up with this for people who wanted that look but would be able to replace them if need be at some point."

"Anything else, I'm happy to try and answer the best I can"

These are some of the questions Jack answered for me.

#988 9 years ago

A bit more when asked about the book and also the fact that the book blocked the pop bumpers. He never directly answered me about anything else coming to the book area.

"Remember the Crystal Ball?? It had nothing - then at IAAPA...hmmmm

Nothing says the book has to live in that spot blocking the bumper toppers....

There is a lot more coming - really - need to see the game DONE!!

Also in modes who knows what Keith and Ted may do.....maybe all of the drops stay down and you have to hit all of the stand up targets. We can do anything!"

#1023 9 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Jack is smart, "some that cannot be changed" meaning Smaug which is kind of the biggest concern.
I hope I'm wrong as after Pacman's mock up it will be tough to look at that weird mounted head, hopefully if it has to stay someone will make a cool mod for it. Still I appreciate that he has addressed his supporters, I'm holding on to mine for now.

I think there is a way to keep smaug the same but add to him where it is better than the reveal. The reveal obviously showed a partial smaug, add more definition to him, add teeth, darken the background that his head is attached to and give him a body. This reveal made him look like a sock puppet that no one is afraid of. Dragons have teeth, claws and wings. I like the idea of removing the rock hes attached to and giving him a neck and molded body. This is gonna have to be fixed or I fear mass drop outs. That is one of many changes or additions that need to happen. Jack if youre reading, I have no doubt you guys spent the bulk of your budget on mechanical and electronics for this machine but it does no good if no one buys the game because it doesn't look finished. I think I speak for most when I say that most want the game to look like the world of the hobbit under glass that way we are immersed into the game. You pulled it off with WOZ now im hoping it will happen with the hobbit.

That is why the big lebowski got such a strong showing, dutch pinball perfectly integrated the theme and when you look at it you say yep, this is the world of the dude and there is no mistaking it.

Everybody agrees code will be amazing but if the toys dont look like the story of the Hobbit many will bail.

I cant wait to see what you come up with by IAAPA.

#1066 9 years ago

These are great suggestions and its what I was hoping would come of it. Please listen to these guy Jack. Modeling it to look like the front of the castle is a great idea. It shouldn't look only like a pile of rocks with a head poking out.

#1085 9 years ago

That longer video gave us a better idea of how it played and the shots. Im not real sold on the lack of shots left ramp, right ramp(so close together so they seem like one shot) left orbit, right orbit? And drops. Such a big playfield and its so empty. I look at my Judge dredd and they packed everything they could in it, thats how a widebody should be. If JJP doesn't want to have to spend so much adding toys and mechanical features then they need to stop making wide body pins.

#1090 9 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Perhaps they can have some negative effect if you hit the right when you should be aiming left (or vice versa). They did say that the code would provide risk/reward behavior of play. Wonder wmechanicallys as far as shot selection.

That would be cool. Id really like to see some physical ball locks and kickers that kick the ball at the player in some of these games. Maybe some cool use of magnets too. I know nothing will be changed on the hobbit mechanically but id like to see the full array of features in these games if they are gonna charge an arm and a leg.

#1141 9 years ago

Who knows whats really going on with this game. They very well could have intentionally left parts off the game because itis part of the third film or they could have all the moldings made but not fully ready in time for expo. Its all really just a guess. They very well could have a fully completed machine at jjp and Jack wanted to get the customers reaction to the game to decide what things they could scrap to save money if everyone liked it. You just dont really know whats spin or not.

#1192 9 years ago
Quoted from OldPinster:

A personal attack? Sorry for referring to you as "genious". My apologies (as clearly that is not the case). Apparently there is a SIGNIFICANT powder coating cost difference between "your" regular limited edition and your "Smaug" limited edition? $500 worth. So please further explain what costs $500 difference between the powder coating on the LE versus the SE. What exactly costs $500 difference? I would really like to know.

He can't answer it because there isnt anything that justifies the $500 price increase. The powder coating raised it but the LE has powder coat too so there is no way the powder coat on the LE is a $500 cheaper coat? I asked Jack this question and he wouldnt answer it. If JJP wants to sell any of the SE at 9k they are gonna have to list the differences so we can see why there is a $500 difference.

#1198 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Actually I did answer it and broke it down.

Sorry but some video clips and an upgraded powder coat is not a $500 cost. By what you are saying, if you billed a customer for the powder coat on the LE and hypothetically charged $300 for it then the next customer comes in and wants the powder for the smaug edition youd charge $800. Please, the price increase is not justified.

#1201 9 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Why are people getting so upset over an optional $500 paint job?

Im not upset about it but Id like to hear from Jack on where he came up with that number.

#1208 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

The powder coat on the LE cost X. The powder coat on the SE cost Y. Y is significantly more expensive than X. Both prices are baked into the cost of the machine. You see a price difference in them and it's reflective of the significant difference in material and labor cost. I don't set prices but I can tell you the cost difference between the two isn't negligible.

Im not arguing the fact that one costs more than the other, but I highly doubt its a $500 difference between seaside bronze and whatever the gold color is.

#1212 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Ask anyone who has gotten a quote from me for a custom game color that includes everything including wireforms. Single stage vs multiple. It's not 500 but it's not 250 either . Custom multiple stage colors are a LOT of work.

Ok so if I got the smaug edition with seaside bronze instead it would only cost me $8500-$8600

#1214 9 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

As Alex said, there are additional costs involved but in either case, when has actual cost ever factored into how much a pinball machine costs or how much people will pay?
What makes Ac/Dc Bible so special?

Youre talking about two different things, what BIBLE sells for on the personal market has no bearing on the fact that it was priced the same as the LTBR at Stern. Artificially inflating the NIB pin market by raising the price of machines on every new release is why Im questioning it.

#1215 9 years ago

Im in on the preorder for $7500 so it doesnt affect me but it does bother me that they "jack" up the prices for no apparent reason.

#1225 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Well to that point there wasn't much difference between acdc premium and ltbr other than laser cut rails. It was even the same powder. But there was a 1500-2k Msrp difference. (If I'm wrong someone correct me but I owned a premium and the ltbr was near identical)

Youre wrong, there was also a mirrored backglass, signature on the playfield, extra clearcoat on the playfield larger speaker and a shaker and I paid $6700 for it the premium at the time was $6300.

#1230 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I paid 5800 for my premium the week they came out (with the sucky cloudy window) Mirrored backglass, speaker and shaker. That's 900 bucks. I guess the point is value is what you make of it. I didn't see the value in the ltbr. That was my choice. Others like yourself saw the value.
I do believe the speaker was the same in the prem and LE's though. The pro did get a smaller one.

Your premium ddnt come with a mirrored backglass unless someone traded it to you

#1231 9 years ago

Plus I was just telling you the price I was quoted by Trent back then.

#1234 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

No not mirrored. I was saying yours did.

Oh gotcha. Bah im tired of talking about the prices, I can only hope no one buys these hobbits at the current price point. Thats not to say that I dont like your powder coating, cause I do, Ive seen plenty of your work.

#1237 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I am supremely honest. I'm telling you flat out the cost difference isn't negligible on the color. everyone knows how anal I am about colors and quality .
Who's machine have you seen that I've done?

Ive just seen all the different threads of peoples machines that youve done(I know pictures dont do them justice) but I was impressed. You also had a thread showing the different colors you were trying.

#1242 9 years ago

For $500 you get the rest of the body of smaug.

#1331 9 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

It is ironic how SOOOOO many people were cheering "NEW Pinball Companies" entering the market as a catalyst to increase competition and drive down prices....
I dont think JJP, PPS, Stern or DP got that memo!

So true its like a race to 10 grand and beyond.

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