I'm glad I'm making it to Expo tonight and will see this in person. It's hard to judge anything based on the washed out video we've seen. I know Alex and Jack tried to adjust the lights in the room, but the camera was just blowing out on the lit screen.

I eventually gave up on watching the stream (caught the archive when I got back to my hotel, thanks for shooting Jared) it was just too hard to see. Knowing I was going to make it in person helped.

Jack, I did watch far enough to hear you shout me out, when we meet I'll teach you how to pronounce my name!

Yeah, that's basically it. Sounds like "Oric". It's a tough one!

Haha, yes, exactly. Only difference is he was Auric, no h at the end. But pronounced the same.

On a plane now flying home from Expo. I'll have more thoughts later, but I just finished reading this thread, was very curious to see what people were thinking.

It's not really clear if this is the "Smaug toy thread" or if I should just post everything I'm thinking. So for the moment I'll make some general comments and then talk about the toy.

First off The Hobbit was next to a Ruby Red WOZ. I'm not a WOZ hater, I think it's an interesting game. I have a lot of criticisms of it, but overall I would call it a strong title. The weak parts are overpowered by the strong parts, if we leave out all the waiting, and broken light boards, etc etc and just focus on the 4.0 code game as it stands now.

That's just for some context.

Hobbit just looked bizarre next to it. Empty, and stripped down, and kind of bland. WOZ has so much color and eye candy and multiple levels etc. It's not a fan layout, not a ramp game, but it feels like there's a lot to do and shoot for.

Hobbit just feels like the opposite. It was weird to see them side by side and think that WOZ was supposed to be the "worst" game that JJP makes.

I watched people play, and flipped it a little. It was set to one ball, no ball save, and I drained fast. I'll be honest, I was tired, was up until 4am the night before, but I really didn't feel like hitting start again. I'm sure the gentleman behind me would have let me, but I just waved him forward. (He was the only one waiting. Big Lebowski had three games set up, and each had a line 6 people deep. Was very interesting to see the contrast.)

Smaug was okay I guess. I didn't hate seeing his jaws move when he was talking. But it looked like all you saw was the stupid mountain back (it looks really lame, empty grey blob) for most of the time, then it would spin around, he'd spit off a movie line, then spin back. So yeah, you don't interact with it, and you don't even see it all that much.

The gold coins are too big. It makes the scale of the dragon feel like he's really tiny. Like a big dog, not a huge dragon.

There are weird exposed wires and blank areas and around Smaug and the mountain it's just almost industrial looking. Maybe that's going to be finished more? I hope so.

All I can say at this point is the game looks like it had its heart ripped out. I really hope for JJP's sake that it's a really early prototype and in now way close to final. If that's it then I just can't see how anyone would want to play through 30 modes or whatever it is on it. There's just not enough to shoot for.

The plastic axes on the slings look awful by the way worse in person. I don't understand why they did that. I'd rather they were just left off all together than look like that.

I saw some of the "MM troll popups", not clear how much they'll be used with the early code. I mean, it's a popup target. Not a terrible idea or anything, but like Smaug they're hidden most of the time, and so you get the bland mountain back and the big open, empty widebody playfield, and it just feels really dull.

The VUKs look really awful. They block the view, they're ugly, the decals on them are drab. I don't get why they aren't wireforms. Would look way nicer. They have no bottom, you see the ball shoot up into them in the gap, then it vanishes. Seeing them go up and around the wireform would be so much cooler.

I'll try and list some things I liked: The glossy Smaug cabinet decals looked great. I see why Jack got pissed at me, my quick mockup was right on the nose. Funny. But it's what I asked for and boom, there it was. Looked sweet.

The insert lighting was nice, some color changing glowing effects. Way too early in code to compare to WOZ though.

Uh ... I dunno what else. The drop targets had no decals, they were like dark red with red standups behind them I think. Might have the details wrong. But nothing really made them stand out, and they kinda just went up and down in random ways. With code I imagine that will become more clear. With all the modes I guess Keith will squeeze every trick out of them he can, there's not enough else to shoot for.

The display was a mixed bag. A lot going on, I didn't find it easy to scan for info. The parts around the edges/corners had smooth animation, none of the jerky stuff I don't like on WOZ. Dwarves fading in and out and stuff like that.

The video in middle is hopefully placeholder. Like one mode that's in there now was the "contract" mode and it featured Bilbo reading the contract and walking around his home. Over, and over and over again. Just looped that movie scene. I was tired of it almost right away, I didn't find it interesting even once, let alone looping. I really hope they're not going just keep playing movie clips in the middle there.

I talked to a lot of people at Expo (if I met you today then nice to meet you!) and we all talked Hobbit. I literally met only one person who liked it. And a lot of people who were harsher than I'm being.

I think JJP has a problem on their hands. They need to fix this game somehow or it's going to bomb. If there are secrets, or more to reveal, or things not done, or whatever, then speak up! I want it to be a success. I don't see it right now. Just the truth as I see it.

Wow, sorry, that was more than I meant to write.

Best shot? No. I have no idea why. They ran out of money. The license tripped them up. There were personality conflicts. People quit in the middle. Gremlins. WOZ was a fluke. This is all a trick and there's a whole finished game yet to be shown. No clue. But it's not even an okay shot right now, it's like a rough concept. Could it be polished into a good game? I definitely think so. But only with more work.

If I was JJP I wouldn't have shown the game at all, let alone let people flip it. If this is it then I think it's just going to be a giant flop. If there's more to come or I'm somehow wrong I'll admit it, this isn't based on really in depth impressions and play time. But it felt really raw, unfinished, and just generally unimpressive.

If you offered me a Hobbit Gold Smaug glossy cab LE edition for $6500 shipped now the only way I'd take is it to flip it for a TBL. And I'd be worried I couldn't flip it because people wouldn't want it.

I could really say a lot more about the sound, the video screen, the art, etc, but it just doesn't seem like there's much point. The sound can be fixed (some annoying high pitched sound effects, and maybe they had it turned up too loud, it sounded too boomy, callouts were repetitive). The video is probably early, I'm fine with not judging it yet. Code is early.

But the playfield, is this it? I mean, I didn't even mention the book! It's a widebody with no stuff. No idea why the third flipper is there, maybe that will be more clear later with the modes. If this game has more to come then someone speak up! Drop a hint, something. It's obvious it's a JJP game, the LCD screen backglass alone says that. But this isn't the game I thought we'd get. Okay, it's 400 pounds, and the underside is packed. That's all the drop targets and popup targets. I need more than something that's really heavy.

I think Keith is great, crazy respect. He says he's going to show us how mode based games should be. Maybe he see shit I'm not, he's a smart guy and I just watched the game on a show floor. But I flipped LOTR today too (to see the bad ass ColorDMD!) and as much as I find that game ugly, it's got so much more going for it than Hobbit. If you like Middle Earth get that with the ColorDMD instead for a lot less money.

Well they look like ass, whatever they're made out of, and they also look like plastic. Fix them or ditch them, I would never want to look at them on my game. It's a good idea, I have the boogie man mod on my Scared Stiff, I dig it there. But this execution is seriously lacking.

Um, with all due respect, my eyes were fine. They look bad. Feel free to disagree, but don't tell me what I think or to "relax".

I realize people want this game to be great. But honestly the only ones I see seriously defending it weren't at Expo. And the harshest criticism for the most part comes from people who were. Who saw it in person, flipped it, watched others play, heard it, etc etc.

I mentioned this in another post somewhere, but I talked with a lot of Pinsiders at Expo who saw my name tag and came over to say hello. Just about everyone asked what I thought of Hobbit and gave their impression. It was clear pretty quickly that the show floor was not being kind to the game.

Everyone is of course seeing things through the lens of their own opinions and experience, and if you really like it that's totally cool with me. But I feel like as someone who was there I should share my honest thoughts for people who couldn't make it. I wish I could say it ruled, because I would be really happy to do that. Jack even made a Smaug cabinet just for me! But the magic wasn't there.

I can't believe I'm pre-ordering TBL, it's really not my style to pay that much, let alone pre-order. But man, they had every move just nailed. Their game was an alpha too, not done. But the way everything was done right, and the faith I have now in the company after spending time with Phil makes it feel right. If Jack could do that I'd be in his camp all day. It's not happening here.

Hopefully JJP keeps rolling and we see Pat's game and all this "license handcuffed us!" stuff goes out the window and we see the power of a fully operational battlestation.

Did you play it at Expo?

They were pre production games. Shit happens on unfinished games, people all know that. From any company. That's one thing you get from a show, people bash on them games, you see how they hold up. You tweak and adjust. They're still running Windows, not even on Linux yet. So it's not just the rules software that isn't done.

And yet, for alpha level games they were really damn sweet. And the bowling mech is very cool, I didn't realize how steep it was until I saw it in person, that part took me by surprise.

Glad to hear there's more to come Jack, take the criticism to heart, it's because people want what you do to be great. I was disappointed at Expo, but I'd be happy to see my mind changed.

Any changes to the dragon are going to have to be approved by the licensor, and I'm sure they've already gone back and forth with them a ton. I wouldn't expect to see any personally. I'd focus more on things that are more under JJP's control, and won't require a committee to sign off on.

For what it's worth this is exactly what I suggested to Jack.

Haha, I suggested this too. I really think there's no changing the mech at this stage, but if the sculpt of the mountain could be updated and given some "sides" it would help a lot. And some fire flickering inside would be great.

Yesterday I think. Or day before maybe. It all starts to blur. No promises or anything, we just had a conversation about it. We'll see what happens, but at the very least I'd say Jack is hearing people and open to trying things. Beyond that it's anyone's guess, I definitely don't work for JJP.

And shaker if you have one!

I agree, the hammer was super underwhelming at first. I didn't care for it. They really gave it the impact it needed during the big code update, and it's definitely way cooler now.

Smaug with teeth and smaller gold? I'd bet on it.

New Smaug all together with new mech? Don't hold your breath.

JJP is listening, and I think some people may be surprised by how much they can change, but I'd also temper your expectations. The game is what it is, I wouldn't expect new mechanical redesigns at this stage. Minus whatever goes where the book is I guess, no idea if that will be interactive or not.