Target drop and pop-up action easy to see in this clip.

The pf is not wide open when the pop-ups come into play. Seems there will always be haters no matter what a maker does, Too cluttered, too open no flow, too much flow? Whatever. This game will rock, no doubt in my mind. It will be deeper than anything to date with more player and machine control than anything ever made. Some say "cheap" looking others who saw it in person say "stunning". Why not reserve judgement until it's a finished product? It already has better bones than anything we have ever seen. More sophisticated interfaces, controls, diagnostics, adjustments. It's really short sighted to pass judgement on an incomplete game isn't it?

Nobody has played TH but many have flipped the hardware a bit. The code is not close to done. The vids I saw were more like demo mode.

I'm confident there is more to reveal hardware wise and most certainly software wise. When you played it, how many of the "at least" 28 modes did you play? Were the pop-up's working, User controled ramp diverters? I'm betting not. From what I have seen it's not even beta code yet. A far cry more programmed than WoZ was at Expo reveal but the final code in WoZ is amazing, I have no reason to believe the final code for TH will be any less spectacular. And yes, I have my nits on WoZ, it's not perfect but what game is?

Sure, you played it, go ahead pass judgement, all the facts are in, It's a crap game, it's as good as it will ever be. So was SM, IM, WoZ, Tron... the list goes on. That is until the code was done. Smaug is not up to my expectation either but that does not kill the game for me, the code will make or break it for me.

Case and point, the Witch on Woz, yawn.. but the game as a whole, wow. I owned it early on in the code, thought the cash it was bringing was worth more than the fun it was providing, there were aspects of it that rubbed me the wrong way and made it "not fun" for me so I sold it. Then they finished the code, lesson learned. I wish I had it back now.

C2C review said "Game looked absolutely amazing" 21:00 minutes in. The podcast concentrates on TBL more as he got invited up to Phil's VIP private viewing party. Making me rethink that (TBL) game. I had dismissed it on principal due to price, TH was over my limit but I was so impressed with the quality of WoZ I stretched my limit. Podcast here: http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-113-expo-2014-day-1_28797

Like everyone, I had high hopes for Smaug and was somewhat let down it wasn't as "cool" as it was built up in my expectations. For me the disappointment in Smaug was more than offset by the promise of an epic deep ruleset.

I was pleasantly surprised by the availability of upgraded cabinet decals though I feel they should be included on the early buyer LEs in lieu of the promised direct print that got nixed.

The SE Smaug option reveal was a bonus. It may seem to skeptics the limited time offer of an alternate color scheme and art (at no cost to JJP) is a marketing ploy to add $500 to the LE but it's nice to have options and it is being provided free to existing LE buyers, so that's nice. There is some JJP investment in the SE too. It did cost at least something to create and will add a little overhead in production to track production variations & alternate attract software for this version.

So all in all I'm happy with what I see so far.

As for expectations going forward. I expect the software in the end to be nothing short of epic. TSPP and LOTR on steroids with added effects we have seen on WoZ like programmed flipper modes (ex: reverse, no hold, maybe a couple more like delayed, battle weary weakening, inverse control? something..)

The Shire was kept secret too long for the book to be the big reveal there so I am expecting another surprise there.

I am not expecting but am hoping a topper will be included as well.

If It turns out like I am expecting, I'll be satisfied, If it it turns out like I'm hoping I'll be thrilled.

One last item, some have described THLE as being less attractive than WoZ which most everyone but the JJP haters will agree is nothing short of stunning. That's understandable since WoZ is more whimsical and colorful in daylight vs THLE. THLE has a more sepia tone to it due to the theme, especially taking in the apron's rather monochrome map theme. I agree in the daylight WoZ grabs your attention more than THLE but for me, I prefer to admire and play my games in their "home" in my gameroom which is in the dark where the lights do their magic. In that environment the lighting really takes center stage. I have TSPP which most will agree is a pretty colorful with it's pastel pallet sitting next to AC/DC Premium. With room lights on, TSPP is a much more attractive pin than the darker photoshopped art of AC/DC BUT with the lights off, AC/DC with it's LEDs really pops. I expect the improved lighting in THLE to really shine as well. I would expect the light show and effects we are yet to see will be on par with WoZ. Again, if it is comparable, I'll be more than pleased. Add the improved GI lighting on THLE over WoZ for gameplay, I'll be more than satisfied with the machine's aesthetics.

Curious how this pans out https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/did-you-preordered-thle-are-you-going-to

No flies on you! I'm still in but want to get an assessment from others that saw and played the game. Also impressions and perspective of more than the vocal few.

He busted me, I started the survey. While I didn't put anything negative in there, simply polling reaction to the reveal. JJP can use the survey as a no nonsense way to gauge if they are on the right path or if they need to lift the kimono a bit higher to calm the natives if it shows a lot of folks are now on the fence or planning on canceling. Why did I create it under an alias? I have been a supporter of JJP for the most part and thought the survey might be construed as a negative thing somehow. Poorly thought out actually.

I beg to differ, you can but it would be premature to do so based on an incomplete demo. I think the game will rock but there are a couple things that can be addressed before it hits the assembly line.

JJP had to do reveals as a start-up and utilizing the pre-order model. Discarding all the BS on WoZ, in the end the game speaks for itself. Same thing happening with TH. #3 will be different and a lot less headaches for Jack.

It was always a placeholder. There have been 2 areas kept super secret until now, Smaug and Shire area, two prominent areas. Smaug, was what we expected to be (at least it was Smaug) but the book was obviously never intended to be the final object there. Seriously, what sense would that make. It was literally a bookmark.

I call foul, out of context!!

Becauuuuuuuse JJP expected people to gush over the progress to date. They certainly didn't expect the mixed to negative reaction the machine received. They expected everyone to be distracted by the positive aspects of the game (of which there are many). Also they are too close to the project and know more than we do about where it's going. JJP also felt they might have gained a little equity in the hearts and souls of the community with their proven track record established by WoZ. Silly Jack, new protocols to cover all exposed skin will soon be adopted.

So you have the president of the company's attention, listening, directly responding to "ALL" concerns. Why not state in clear, non snipey feedback as if you were helping brainstorm what you would do/change to impriove what I know will already be a deep, fast flowing, cool themed game. Flavor your feedback in a constructive way so JJP can gather ideas for improvements where there may be gaps. He admitted that JJP should be held to a high standard, he is listening. So we all have an opportunity to contribute to help build a great game. Take advantage of it! Does Gary do what Jack is? does any other pinball maker?

I would be surprised if given the feedback and reaction to Smaug there are not some cosmetic changes there but I would NOT expect a do-over. Coin size, appearance, teeth? mountain/rock to Castle conversion? All these suggestions would improve the cosmetics. It's going to be a talking head and the tail will be the diverter, that's a given.

Smaug will get a cosmetic overhaul I'd bet but it's function is set. So my constructive feedback I would like to see the "rock" changed into either a castle or a pile of gold and jewels with a sleeping eye showing. When it wakes, the eye opens and then rotates to reveal Smaug. maybe some columns as seen in desolation added to give the height needed.
If this were doable, head improved, add fiber lighting on wake-up to pile eye and revealed I would love it.

Smaug-sleep.jpg

smaughead.jpg

Never say never, It could be slaved off another output or something of lesser prominence could be sacrificed or slaved off Smaug. Though I think mechanically it's set

I for one am ok if Smaug rework pushes the project back a month or two. In the scheme of things, it would be worth the wait. Lots of smart (and productive) ideas being suggested. Good to see that instead of the non-buyer sniping.

I don't think it'll take a year to get this right. We're talking about one feature that could easily be designed and implemented in 3 to 4 weeks. Approvals may be the bottleneck. I doubt a major redesign is called for, some really good suggestions on improving the cosmetics will satiate the majority of naysayers.

I was referring to giving Smaug a makeover. The rock has got to go. See my suggestion a couple pages back to replace it with a gold pile with the smaugs sleeping eye sticking out. Upon activation it lights up to simulate waking then rotating to reveal and improved smaug head with lit eyes like in the movie.

There is no doubt in my mind we will see moving targets with the individual drop target controls

I am looking forward to it after all this at this point. DEEP rules, Reassured the upper flipper will have an important role in game play. More surprises and bonus stuff to come. I LIKE the open playfield and it will certainly flow. From all this bs, there are some really good suggestions to make the game even better. It will be a hit, if not a cult hit. Do the colors pop like Woz, no, are they supposed to, no. It matches the theme. Let them finish the game, pass judgement after you see it done. Hell I picked up a HUO LOTR for a trade on MM that fell through. I HATED it until I played it a while and understood the rules. It will be one of the last to ever go now.

There are no weak flippers on JJP games with settable strength and pitch that's a silly ding. The "issues" to date are all a matter of opinion and the biggest one so far is overblown expectations for a single toy and ignorance of what is already planned (Jack can take some blame for that for playing it too close to the vest).

IMO it is shaping up as it was designed, an open pf with flow. Was anyone really surprised with the demo? Really? The playfield layout has been public for months that has received near unanimous praise and from what I have seen flips exactly as I would expect it to.

Awesome rules expected. Drops and targets, scoops & ramps, innovation, pop up bash targets. Subway, physical ball locks, awesome theme, outlane saves, super sound and animations. Yeah, it's got issues, issues with awesome potential.

People have issues, pinball machines are what they are unless they are broken, then they have issues.

Sure props due but you are a little late..