I tend to lean to difference in reflected light on Smaug that causes the color difference

Gandalf the black, I like it. Do away with the racist Gandalf the white.

For the pc police im j/k

He's just responding to my thought of the game not being as flow oriented as some (I?) thought what with 4 bash toys and 11 controlled drop targets. Seems much more 'target' oriented - something like a Centaur or WPT level of target shooting?

With 28 modes I would expect some to be target based and some flow based so maybe you get the best of both worlds.

Looking at that photo of smaug makes me realize that the game version needs teeth badly.

I have lost track if this has been posted but it does look good so worth another watch!

Dunno about that. Have you seen any Metallica snake teeth lately?

I tend to agree, and also add the caveat of poor photographing to it. The only thing people seem to photograph well anymore are their stupid selfies.

Yes

http://mezelmods.com/collections/metallica/products/fangs

Even if I had to buy 5 replaceable dentures I would have to swap out if they broke that would be fine for me. Just have something we can do to add teeth would be great

Why would they break?

I guess JJP is worried that a ball out of control would hit and break them. I would like to have the ability to add them and take that risk if JJP doesn't. Also, it may have been that in the original JJP design Smaug would be a bash toy as well and that was shot down, and they didn't do another sculpt with teeth. JJP may also say that the talking mechanic didn't work with teeth - I think you can add them (not long teeth, but noticeable) and it not cause an issue.

Fair, but airballs can break anything; less likely his teeth than say the axes on the slings?

I think your second thought is closer to correct, but I would bet he was going to eat or spit balls at one point and thus couldn't have many (any?) teeth.

You're looking at that pin and think TEETH on the dragon are what's missing??

Smaug dentures... only available on the LE!

image.jpg

I think what happened (if this is the finished product) is that the license killed all their good designs and crippled them so severely that they could not get the product built the way they, or we, wanted. It looks like they did the best they could with what they could get into the game (and it is still good just not great IMO), but I think JJP looks like they just said screw it, the license choked us too much. They have said it as nicely as they can, but it looks like the license actually screwed them over. Such a shame really

It looks like they just want to move on after getting kicked over and over and their ideas/designs having to be scraped.

(COULD BE WRONG - but this is what it looks like to me)

Maybe you should go back and read all my other criticisms of the game, so no thats not the first thing that needs changed or added, but in that picture the dragon needs teeth.

One of many...

Which is why Lawlor #3 is gonna blow your brains out.

Im almost thinking I should pull my preorder and transfer it to pat lawlors game. Would love to see a sneak peak.

Seems like it could be pretty awesome. More magic is always nice, but what's there has great potential:

Think about Smaug taunting you as you play (as he taunted Bilbo in the movies). The individually-controllable drop targets could be the chinks in Smaug's armor...the diverter as his tail swishing the ball away at key moments...all with appropriate voice work and video. In the story, Smaug is eventually killed by an arrow in the single missing plate of his armor. I imagine that's how the pin will play--hit the down drop target at the right moment. Could be pretty thrilling to play.

I admit I'm not a great player, only average. The overall effect and immersiveness matter more to me than deep playability, but it sounds like it has that too with so many modes.

agree! is this a possibility?

Which is what they said about TH. Seriously, dude!

Can't blame it on the license. If you can't do what you hoped to do you gotta come up with something else. I said it before and I'll say it again: interaction with the ball and innovation is what was promised for the Smaug toy. Look again at what was delivered.

But OF COURSE Jack will come through on his promises with the next pin. 3rd table's a charm I guess.

Sneak peek isnt a possibility but getting money back for the hobbit is.

Gandalf isn't black ?

I really doubt that. From the description the GI circuit is separate and from the stuff I've seen will be quite bright. As for your statement that the lighting effects in general are weak in WOZ, outside of the weak GI in WOZ, the lighting effects themselves are amazing. They learned from the first game.

I'd trade the "interactive" head for a completely non-interactive figure at this point.

Smaug.jpg

..and yet the hype continued as if everything was going according to plan..."Just wait and see...".

I just didn't know it was "just wait and see..." how much we've nerfed Smaug...

I do hope there is more to reveal as far as playfield esthetics...but apparently there was no mention of this during last nights opening speeches...

The only reservation I have with Lawlor's game is the rumor that Keefer isn't doing the software on that one. I heard that Ted Estes was coding that one by himself. Ted's a very good programmer and is responsible for much of the goodness in TZ and WOZ but Keefer is the best when it comes to lighting effects and more intricate rules. I'm hoping it's still a joint effort!

Agreed. The code and play will be solid. Get the wow factor on looks inline

Heck line it up next to its brother WOZ and make sure it stacks up in esthetics. I like where the gameplay is going - I am just looking for the 'complete package' look

OMG I thought that noise was something misfiring wow that noise kills the game.

Maybe they could use Issac Hayes' character, Gandolph, from the Rockford Files instead?

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0026433/?ref_=tt_cl_t4

I haven't played it but the layout isn't one that lends itself to flow. IE, there isn't a ramp or flow shot from the upper right flipper, pop ups block access to ramps, main ramp turns into a u-turn, etc. It doesn't appear that there are many shots that can lead to combos or ramp shots that flow into other ramp shots.

Pinball is supposed to be mechanical interaction with gameplay. A diorama of art sculptures does not cut it in my book. I would take JJP's Smaug over a do nothing Da Vinci sculpture anyday for pinball applications.

It's a different kind of flow. It's not the typical Stern two fan ramps and a spinner layout. Where's the stop and go here? Looks like it plays really fast

So because he was gold for a 2 second scene in a movie they should make him gold in the pinball machine? He's red 99.9% of the time. I'd take the version that represents how he usually looks in the context of his regular dragon life.

And I completely agree with you. But in this case, the toothless head has such a homebrew feeling to it. I mean at least make the coins to scale.

What say you about the book then? It has to be the worst thing ever put in a pinball machine.

I'm just really disappointed. I've had this game on my wishlist forever and was really looking forward to the reveal.

I agree the book is a problem. The book actually looks good for a molded prop, but just not in a pinball machine where it is taking up view and ideal real estate for something more cool.

It looks like more of a "Shoot, react, and catch" kind of game. I'm sure it will play fast but I see it as a game where you'll have to trap and aim for targets quite often vs. hitting shots on the fly and performing combos,etc.

If there's one thing I hope that JJP changes based on all of the post reveal feedback it is changing out the book for something far better and more interactive. I think if JJP did these 3 things people would be acting much happier and likely to stick with their orders.

1. Model out the Smaug area a bit more. It looks unfinished right now around the divertor. Some portion of the rest of Smaugs body could be incorporated somewhere.

2. Remove the book and replace it with something more interesting. What happened to the rumored LCD Bag End toy? That seemed like a sure thing.

3. Improve the look of the apron. It looks unfinished. Why not bring the clear coated wood apron back and then apply the map of Middle Earth directly on it? Another idea is applying a bumpy texture feel to the Middle Earth map on the apron.

The modders will have a field day.

So what if the included Smaug is toothless and boring? The modders can take an existing Smaug model, modify it and add it to the game.

People pay $500 for a Creature hologram, or $400 for a LCD screen with video modes, so $500 for a fearsome replacement Smaug? Sounds doable.

smug.jpg

Over time I think that third flipper is going to demolish that left ramp... check out that entry angle.

I wonder if that bank of targets (next to that left ramp) was supposed to drop down along with that stone ramp so as to launch the ball into Smaug...I wonder if they looked into that...oh well...

I'm not saying his comment was appropriate, but there's two sides here. Tons of people on said forum are bashing the hell out of the game him and his company have been working on for the last two years. Are all JJP personnel supposed to just bend over and take all the bashing and provoking with a smile?

So many of you guys talk so much crap toward the manufacturers, as if you could do better, and then act shocked and say "how dare you?" when they finally get unnerved and talk back. Get real. I like when vendors take offense and chime in to defend their pins. It shows that they're human, and that they're passionate about what they're doing, and that they're not chicken shits.

Sometimes Pinside is such BS...reading up to this I am thinking "damn...not looking good for second pin" ... then I see the video... WOW it just looks incredible. I was down on it but MAN it looks so cool.

I was thinking "drop targets? like WPT ? meh. ramp like FT ? been there." But look at that playfiled, check out the LCD WOW, that great CLUNK sound when the ball makes the ramps, I mean it looks great to me. I love what Smaug is doing and it would not surprise me if he looks more like a whole dragon with the finished artwork and plastics and side art and what not. I was hoping for a more complete dragon, but he is so cool on the LCD, and I can't tell what it will look like when totally complete.

If you can't tell I am pretty happy about it.

Why make him an American at all?

Just make him Black.

The gold-covered Smaug in the movie is not orange, he's shiny gold. Maybe the Orange picture is just a weird picture with funny lighting. Would Smaug be better in shiny gold?

What other choice do you have?