Quoted from JerseyJack:

We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Jack would you mind responding to my concerns I posted a few posts ago? Thanks

Quoted from TaTa:

2

You GTF out of hear. Yes it's easy to do so. I can just look at the empty playfield and see the limitations on what combination can be done...not much. But yhea, I guess you could make infinite amounts of modes. But who wants to hit drop targets all the time. And with this layout, there isn't anyway around them being used in EVERY mode.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from Pimp77:

I don't get your complaint. *shrug* Most games don't have drop targets at all...let's take LOTR since it is very deep. How many shots does it have (ignoring targets for now)? I count 8. How many does Hobbit have? 7. That's pretty standard. Now, throw in the drop targets and stationary targets behind them as well as the other stationary targets...that's a lot of shots. Add 4 pop-up "trolls" and roll-over buttons. Now we're talking. I personally like drops. You don't have to, but there is a ton to shot at on this table.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

There are many more things to be completed in this game.
How Smaug interacts with the ball, his tail is the diverter on the ramp. The action button was not even on the game at Expo - the finish detail where the mountain is, lots of things. We listen and there could be some more subtle changes as well. The game will be at IAAPA next month - it will be a lot more game then too.....we will listen and react with change but this will be an awesome deep mode based game with a lot going on.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.

We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from Craig:

Again, thanks for listening.

Quoted from beelzeboob:

You're all bashing a game BEFORE IT'S EVEN DONE! It's like looking at a car that hasn't had the engine or seats put in yet.

Quoted from Pimp77:

It does, but many shots are clunky on LOTR. It plays like a white wood to me. Software saved that game along with sound/music. I'm hoping TH doesn't play like a white wood but I know the software and sounds/music will at least rock! Worst case...it's in the same camp as LOTR.

Quoted from swampfire:

This is where I think Stern are smart. They keep the game completely under wraps until it's 100% done, and only then post pics. The hardware is done at that point, no going back. It may not be what everyone wants, but at least there's just one discussion about it, instead of months of speculation and disappointment.

Quoted from chrisjens2:

100% done? Stern prefers to ship out titles with incomplete code so the pinside threads are a mile long with code complaints. Much better business stragedy....

Quoted from Crash:

So, getting stoked about your Hobbit pre-order?

Quoted from flynnibus:

It is interactive - just not in the way YOU ASSUMED it to be. You assumed 'interact' to mean certain things like eating the ball, bash toy, or the like.

Quoted from swampfire:

This is where I think Stern are smart. They keep the game completely under wraps until the hardware and toys are 100% done, and only then post pics. No going back at that point. It may not be what everyone wants, but at least there's just one discussion about it, instead of months of speculation and disappointment.
Post edited by swampfire: Clarified my point is about HW and toys, not about SW

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from Tekman:

At expo, it was easy for me to visualize how the Smaug body will cover much of the ramp and look cool. My immediate concern was the back right pop bumper area. The barrel pops are lost and absolutely no way to tell the area is supposed to be water. It seems like it needs a waterfall with rocks plastic/sculpture tall enough to fill the back right and the barrels need to be higher to see them (like the trees in WOZ). The cheap sling axes and ugly VUKs also made me cringe. I'm wondering why the PF is not further along at this point. It's supposed to be the software to focus on and not hardware at this point. No matter how much code and modes thrown at it, it can't make a bland playfield look any better. I would also like to see a pattern cut in the metal ramps for a better look and for lighting effects. I'm looking forward to what JJP is going to do to pull all this together on only two months.

Quoted from John_in_NC:

JJP had to do reveals as a start-up and utilizing the pre-order model.

Quoted from flynnibus:

It is interactive - just not in the way YOU ASSUMED it to be. You assumed 'interact' to mean certain things like eating the ball, bash toy, or the like. Smaug is not static, nor is it independent of the ball and game play.
That's just it.. JJP was giving tidbits and people took them their own way. And now instead of saying "I guess I was wrong" it's "JJP lied!!!". People lock onto their idea of what he meant, vs acknowledging he was being open ended.

Quoted from ek77:

Drop targets need to be toys as when put next to WOZ this looks like a stripped down game.

Quoted from ezeltmann:

At this point , what is the harm in saying exactly WTF the missing things are and revealing what people are putting their money down for. Being vague doesn't hold any accountable value.

Quoted from StevenP:

Wow. Just wow. Coming from a person who owns a ST Pro. Heck, that looks like a stripped-down game when put next to most EMs! Put your ST next to a hobbit and talk to me about "stripped down."

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I do understand that things like the divertor are his tail (which will hopefully be modeled) and that he may steal your balls

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Keith can do amazing things and can make a game that would normally be half ass into something great.
Software at the show was extremely primitive, so you can't really base it off of that. I didn't like the layout and the gameplay kinda sucked, but awesome rules can salvage it.
Look at LOTR. Boring layout. Typical fan pattern, not a lot of toys. Overall very bland. Keith made that game into a masterpiece. So he's done it before. And I know he loves the LOTR universe, so he will put his heart into this software. Time will tell.

Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Nobody is being vague... Maybe things are still being engineered... Maybe Warner Brothers needs to approve things (they work on thier timetable, not your, mine, JJP's, Expo's calander, etc...)... Everyone just needs to be patient... Jack's already said things aren't done - judge when they are.
Food for thought - Jack ADDED the crystal ball LCD in WOZ AFTER all the LE's sold out - it was a surprise. When I asked him why as I thought it was a strange financial decision to do so - his answer was 'When you look into a crystal ball you're supposed to see things'... That speaks volumes about the desire to not half ass things.
The thing people are missing is that this company is giving you so much more than we ever ever ever had... LCD screen, headphone jack, audio jack, improved sound, a stupid number of mechanical features, innovation (not stealing things when the patents expire), etc...
Before JJP were buying (or NOT buying) NBA - end of story. Cut the guy some slack or we can all go back to the dark ages ! Even JPOP gave JJP props in his seminar for where we are today with all the new players trying new things after all the stagnation from 1997-2011 - anyone catch that ?
I had a customer today say Pinside would have bitched if Smaug came alive flew down the playfield, ate the ball off the playfield, etc... I laughed, he gets it...

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

I would expect Smaug and the ST ship to be equally as influential on my gameplay at this point

Quoted from StevenP:

OK, but then look at 15 controlled drop targets and 4 'trolls' in TH vs. one single drop in ST (which is part of that same ST ship).

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Fact is TH gameplay right now has nothing to do with Smaug - the 11 drops and 4 pop ups are 100x more influential on the game than the over-hyped Smaug mechanism.

Quoted from Tekman:

At expo, it was easy for me to visualize how the Smaug body will cover much of the ramp and look cool.

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

The debate here is primarily Smaug. I don't think anyone is arguing the drops and the pop ups aren't cool, just that they aren't what anyone was excited for.

Quoted from TaTa:

He won't. You're not one of his first bumpers or cheerleaders. And it questions Jack...

Quoted from StevenP:

In reading this thread, and Jack's comments, it's pretty clear we haven't seen Smaug yet. So I think the current debate/criticism is kinda silly.

Quoted from PinballSTAR:

I had a customer today say Pinside would have bitched if Smaug came alive flew down the playfield, ate the ball off the playfield, etc... I laughed, he gets it...

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Smaug™ will interact with the ball. Maybe not shooting in his mouth but he will two ways - Much criticism of WOZ during the process. Many things not fully seen or understood until implemented months later.
This time around I feel that there is much more positive criticism that the hope and expectation can be met. This is a very far reaching game with what is in it. Things done before and things never done before in some balance.
Your mind's dream is hard to beat or meet in reality, but I say that the game is not done yet. We listen and have more to do. The rules alone will make this game. BUT the mechanics and electronics have to be there too.
The action button was not even on the Expo game. We only had one rule for it so why show anything? At IAAPA and beyond, much more is shown and known.
We can and will do better. Thanks!

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

we don't know if smaug dies. 3rd movie isn't out yet.

Quoted from mark9:

Unless you've read the book

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Fair enough, but the issue is you could disable the Smaug mechanism entirely and the gameplay remains 100% unchanged in terms of shot flow or goals. You can easily say the same about 90% of Stern's toys as well (ST ship, Sparky, Well Walker, etc...) but Stern doesn't pump their toy up for 2 years as some sort of mind blowing pinball revolution.

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Fact is TH gameplay right now has nothing to do with Smaug - the 11 drops and 4 pop ups are 100x more influential on the game than the over-hyped Smaug mechanism.

Quoted from seeker939:

Dude. I think it was in March this year when Jack announced - as he was talking about the toys that Matt was creating - that Smaug as a "critical part of the game" was "going to interact with the ball in a couple of ways". Gee, how DID anyone get "Smaug toy interacting with ball" from that?
And I quote Joe Balcer: "The main mechanism is Smaug which will be very interactive."

Quoted from seeker939:

After making this big secret out of it, what else should customers expect but some really cool mechanism?

Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Nobody is being vague... Maybe things are still being engineered... Maybe Warner Brothers needs to approve things (they work on thier timetable, not your, mine, JJP's, Expo's calander, etc...)... Everyone just needs to be patient... Jack's already said things aren't done - judge when they are.
Food for thought - Jack ADDED the crystal ball LCD in WOZ AFTER all the LE's sold out - it was a surprise. When I asked him why as I thought it was a strange financial decision to do so - his answer was 'When you look into a crystal ball you're supposed to see things'... That speaks volumes about the desire to not half ass things.
The thing people are missing is that this company is giving you so much more than we ever ever ever had... LCD screen, headphone jack, audio jack, improved sound, a stupid number of mechanical features, kick ass rule depth, innovation (not stealing things when the patents expire), etc...
Before JJP we were buying (or NOT buying) NBA - end of story. Cut the guy some slack or we can all go back to the dark ages ! Even JPOP gave JJP props in his seminar for where we are today with all the new players trying new things after all the stagnation from 1997-2011 - anyone catch that ?
I had a customer today say Pinside would have bitched if Smaug came alive flew down the playfield, ate the ball off the playfield, etc... I laughed, he gets it...

Quoted from Apollyon:

At least the ship on ST fires the ball back at you with a kicker.