Its hard. Not like other cannons that you can learn the timing of it. Very satisfying when you get a strike.

How many games do you think those preproduction games got in 3 days? That is exactly what they needed to see; what needs tweaked when under stress. The only issue I saw was the subway from the upper playfield and that was only a real problem on one of the three at expo. I was told it was a known issue and that there is already a revision in the works. I never witnessed the other broken items you mentioned and I was there from wednesday evening until Sunday morning. What DP has done in exactly one year is out standing.

Say JJP did make some big changes to the Smaug area. What do you think is doable?

Personally I think replacing the 3 right drop targets in front of Smaug and making them a motorized target bank (AFM, Tron and SM style) with some type of shot behind it would please a lot of people. Such as change could be made that would still not involve Samug being directly hit. Maybe its a pipe dream at this point but I think that type of change would pull a lot of people back into the game and make the whole area more interactive as well as add variety to the games shots.

I bought it with 200 plays on it and have had it for 6 months. I play it all the time and clean it every week. I'm not one of those who just let's a pin sit to have a low play count. It's also my only pin. But it's beyond mint and everything works and looks great.

I am wondering this too... thinking about drop target heavy games in my collection that resent frequently, WPT is top of this list. I can only think of a single mode where the drops keep popping up rapidly, and it is fine. At least they only pop up after you hit at least one down from a bank during that multiball.

But the drops continually resetting during the smaug multiball, and perhaps almost every other mode during the game? That would get old pretty fast from a noise perspective.

I remember someone complaining about the noise from the GI relay ticking during Hulk multiball in Avengers. Hobbit seems to be like that multiplied by a thousand.

Anybody saying "just crank the sound baby" to drown out the drops... good luck with that

Not a chance. Going back to whitewood won't be happening. I don't think randomly adding new/different game mechanics would be a good idea. At this point they might consider bringing back something they have already tested and know it worked but was cut for some reason. But honestly, other than making the table more appealing visually I don't expect changes.

Get one of the editions with headphone jack. There are plenty to pick from.

Also my fear to be honest.

So we have months of people ASSUMING what the smaug toy would be... and when it gets revealed it's not what they assumed it would be so now it's garbage.

And you all wonder why companies before did not pre-release games or details of games???

JJP gave teasers, you all assumed that meant X.. and now you got Y.. and you're upset.

Can no one step back and look at what they are doing here? You're all bashing because the game isn't what you thought it would be in your head.

This may be the smartest thing said yet. People bashed TWD because it wasn't what they had expected in their head. You don't like what these companies are putting out? Start your own damn company. I'm getting TH come hell or high water. Love the theme, love what Jack's been doing, and quite frankly, I couldn't have done it better myself so I shut my f-ing mouth. Jack shows the progress because people have money invested and because he WANTS to hear people's feedback. Look how the PF was tweaked because of suggestions. I can see why he won't be doing things this way anymore. By all accounts, PL's game will be revealed when it's done.

You're all bashing a game BEFORE IT'S EVEN DONE! It's like looking at a car that hasn't had the engine or seats put in yet. I would tell the bashers to go get a hobby, but this IS their hobby. I just wish they were a little more patient and forgiving of imperfections. It's what keeps the modders in business!

Yeah! The man is excited about pinball and you break him down. How nice of you.

Yeah, I am sure my wife and kids in my home (and for the Hobbits on location... other patrons of whatever establishment) will be all for this "fix"

Even if I lived by myself, that is still the weakest sauce fix to "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang..." I have ever heard.

Honestly it is an argument FOR digital pinball. I am wondering if the drop target noise will end up being bigger than smaug-gate.

Varying the speed of the ball-aiming mech is a simple but effective way to set the difficulty of any given trip to the alley. They should allow the player to build up the point value of successful bowling frames over the course of the game, but also increase the difficulty... higher risk/reward will keep it fresh. Remember, this isn't stewie pinball... you get 2 shots (or 1 if you strike) and that's it. It's over with faster than T3's RPG.

I should have waited till today to post anything, over the weekend it was TBL all male lovefest but finally others are reiterating my view. I said it many times first impressions are not really valid when it comes to pinball, whether they be good or bad. Then again I have zero patience myself maybe its a trait of us pinheads. I hope TH turns out great.

Sad day, first time I have to give CraZ4Pin a thumb up ;P^^

There came a day, you have to put on the table what a customer will get. I am not as negative as others about the hobbit. there are a lot of things that I saw I realy liked so far. But it was anounced as big reveal at the expo.
2 month away from production start and I still have no idea how the game will be looking when I will get it.

Not to purposely criticize anything, yet at least with Rudy you can both bash him with the pinball and shoot the ball into his mouth, along with being taunted.

Smaug compares poorly against Rudy in nearly all aspects. Rudy was revolutionary.. Smaug not so much. Surprised that's all they could do with him.. making him just a small talking head.

Yeah I definitely stand corrected. It is much closer to the Joker than Rudy. This is nowhere near as cool or interactive as Rudy. I apologize to Rudy for the insult!

No insult towards Rudy, I am sure, yet I was actually referring to my possibly unnecessarily criticizing JJP and TH.

I agree with you that at the moment Smaug does not look to be nearly as neat as Rudy...

That sounds harsh but I have to agree. It's been over 20 years since Rudy so you would expect a toy like Smaug to at least offer a similar level of interactivity with the ball with the way the toy was being described. The first time I saw Smaug was a picture posted here and I immediately thought upon seeing the hinged jaw "oh cool, you shoot balls into his mouth, awesome". It was a huge bummer when it was said that wasn't the case and that the toy would not interact with a pinball at all.

I do understand that things like the divertor are his tail (which will hopefully be modeled) and that he may steal your balls at the divertor near him but the actual Smaug toy itself doesn't interact with the ball at all and that's a bummer.

Perosonally if the license didn't allow for Smaug to be hit I wouldn't have put a physical Smaug toy at all in the game and instead have him taunt you on the LCD screen. As far as we know WB would license the 3D animations for Smaug and it would amazing to have those on the screen. If that was the case the entire Smaug area could have been for a toy that interacted with the ball such as an interactive Lonely Mountain.

I am hoping this is a "Rainbow Plastic" moment where we are being shown a placeholder. But just like that moment JJP not saying so is puzzling.

With the obvious missing tail + all the comments about the back of the game being "bare" it would be a treat to see that we get a scaled Smaug(TM)..that FILLS THE ENTIRE BACK OF THE GAME.

3035892.jpg

I hope something like that is implemented. That's what the entire Smaug area really needs. I can actually see the ramps and the divertor being part of the Smaug toy in that case as opposed to now where everything looks separate. However, would the rest of Smaugs body look odd when he's facing away from the player and the mountain is in view?

I dislike mini playfields too. The bowling alley is definitely a different type of mini pf, but I still agree that it has the potential to get boring.

The good news is that it's design is similar to ACDC (and Congo etc) in that it sits below the main pf and doesn't take up space from the main pf. I don't care much for ACDC's mini pf, but at least its not using up valuable real estate.

EDIT: Sorry to get OT.

I like the idea of there always being a Smaug to look at and something in much greater scale, like you have proposed. Even my 11yo son when I showed him a gameplay video was really disappointed in Smaug and would rather see exactly what you describe.

I would suggest you email your idea and photo to JJP. When I emailed Jen and Jack this past weekend they did respond to me. Who knows? I'd much rather wait and see something cool than what is currently there. Heck, I like the idea of him taunting the player. Keep that. Just lose the peek-a-boo aspect and make something that looks awesome.

I've been told by 2 people who were at the expo that in its current state TH is a very big let down and I should cancel my order. I'm going to keep my order for the time being and see if anything changes.

Hopefully there will be some pleasant surprises.

_{Post edited by VolunteerPin: Removed snide comment about not holding my breath.}

Thats why i dont get the 360 reveal at all. I would feel better if the thing just talked, turned head to follow the ball, taunted and breathed "fire" with a super bright LED. As it stands now it looks like this (minus teeth)

ended.jpg

While on the subject of teeth.. I get the teeth being removed from the snake in Metallica as the ball directly hits it.. but there had to be some way to add teeth to this thing that would RARELY get a airborne ball.

The whole thing looks like a placeholder to me.

There are many more things to be completed in this game.

How Smaug interacts with the ball, his tail is the diverter on the ramp. The action button was not even on the game at Expo - the finish detail where the mountain is, lots of things. We listen and there could be some more subtle changes as well. The game will be at IAAPA next month - it will be a lot more game then too.....we will listen and react with change but this will be an awesome deep mode based game with a lot going on.

That's great to hear! Thanks Jack.

One question I do have is with Smaug interacting with the player so much will there be custom call outs for him by either a voice actor or Benedict Cumberbatch himself?

Feedback loop...awesome.

Jack,

Thank you for your reply and listening. Personally, I've had nothing but positive interaction with you and am thankful you are posting here.

I think the issue is people do spend a lot of money on stuff and just get nervous. I'm to blame on this as well.

Here's to following what will hopefully be a long-term keeper in my collection.

Darin

I couldn't play it if that's all you're going to hear. Just another reason why I'm selling/refunding my order

You could have saved a lot of customer frustration by stating this during your seminar. Im hoping the finishing touches on the mountain mean youre gonna actually make it look like a mountain, also make the tail diverter an actual tail because no one is gonna know thats what it is. Would like to see a molded windlance and move the book and actually do something with the bag end area. A question we would like to know is why the $500 price increase to the smaug edition? Can we expect extras for the price increase? Thanks for your time Jack

Id like to add to my post, please change the size of the gold coins, they are way to large comparable to smaug. Also could you please let us know whats the deal with the side decals? Are they easily removable to switch out artwork and also is that the reason for the smaug edition increase because it comes with the upgraded thick side art?

McKellen and Cumberbatch won't be doing voice acting for TH, but that's no surprise. But at the reveal JJP said they can get a Smaug voice actor no problem and are also looking for "the best Gandalf" out there.

I really hope they find some good impersonators.

Pretending a diverter is Smaug tail and calling him interactive with the ball is an insult to me. The mountain looks like a cape around Smaugs neck...Count Smaug. What can you possibly do... All you do is hit drop targets and two ramps that are so tight they may as well been one. And that third flipper? Deep rules and code...so you have 28 modes in which most if not all will interact with...that's right...drop targets! Wow that's soooo exciting. I guess one will be...hit right middle target, then hit right FT ramp, wait for CP Smaug to taunt you and redirect through his awesome way of interacting and divert your ball so can hit some more drop targets...

David Thiele addressed that at our Fireside Chat - there is a link to it....somewhere you can find. He explain it better than I could.

It's really a whole lot more than that. I don't need to "start my own damn company", I can just buy another companies pinball machine and wait for the next with JJP. I love my Woz.

If you can't take the criticism, and I know Jack can and has learned a lot, then he shouldn't be making pinball machines. I'm sure the Hobbit will end up excellent, Keith is doing the rules and Jack will fix a lot of the stuff.

I said it many time before, the fact that Jack is getting his ass blistered over this is a positive thing! If you didn't have a thread this long and you had crickets, that would mean nobody gave a shit. We all care! I love this hobby and want everybody to be successful, but if you gonna get hurt feelings then you are gonna be in for a rough ride. Sorry.

That's great to hear, Jack. You have the chance here to earn a lot of good will, not least from those of us who have supported you and want you to succeed.

By the way, thanks for allowing us to choose the SE edition at no extra cost. (I know providing that option costs you something.) Those Smaug side decals look spectacular.

Awesome. I only heard the Gandalf part.

As long as it's not this guy, haha. That is still a much better job then what I could do!

How can it possibly cost more?

Just wait to see it before you bash, whine, and complain. Let's give it a fair shake. To me the only complete fail is the book. Has to go. And if you don't think Keith Johnson can make 28 modes unique then you haven't played a KJ game...really, you are trying to bash the 28+ modes now?? LOL!!! GTF outta here!

1) You have to create, produce and stock an additional design; and

2) You have the added expense of tracking orders with more potential permutations

Someone had to design it and test powder/coating colors. Do you think that stuff just happens?

There's a doc on Netflix called "I know that voice" ...one of the voice actors in it is the sound-alike for Gandalf in LOTR video games. I forget who it was offhand - but, there are good Gandalfs out there! Shouldn't be too tough to track down.

Bingo, brotha! Forget about this "Mountain rock" reveal thing...I think Smaug's body as a plastic similar to Whitewater's mountains would be great. If it's molded in a way where his head can be visible but look like it's sleeping...then wake up and turn to the player it could look way way cooler. LED eyes would be great, too. I know his eyes don't glow in the movie...but that would just be a great "pinball visual"...from sleeping to awake. I think this might be the way to salvage Smaug without reinventing the wheel, which obviously can't be done based on deadlines.

i agree. 9k is a big boy price, you bet consumers have a lot of expectations! this is not measuring up to those expectations for many as it was presented. not even close for me. i wouldn't buy this game for 5k quite honestly.

fingers crossed pl's game will be a hit because this isn't...

2

You GTF out of hear. Yes it's easy to do so. I can just look at the empty playfield and see the limitations on what combination can be done...not much. But yhea, I guess you could make infinite amounts of modes. But who wants to hit drop targets all the time. And with this layout, there isn't anyway around them being used in EVERY mode.

Obviously Jack better had never announced Smaug features that weren't final. At this point it is what it is. Moving on. At least a tail diverter will integrate the Smaug character more into the gameplay. Maybe JJP are just terrible at the promotion part and there is more stuff coming that will almost magically make TH a must have pin...

Quoted for response

5k by Christmas. What a shocker... Jacks fist pumper and cheerleader gave me two thumbs down. Now I know I'm right

The moutain behind Smaug's neck is very odd IMO. It looks like a colarette
Like thisjurassic-park-1993-_140079-fli_1373978040.jpg