(Topic ID: 106454)

Smaug toy revealed!


By CraZ4Pin

5 years ago



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There are 1424 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 29.
11
#701 5 years ago

With two full years to develop a Smaug toy which JJP fully understood the entire pinball community was anticipating to drop their jaws to the ground, and the reveal is a non-interactive Smaug/NF Skull on a swivel, nobody should be surprised by the universal disappointment with the Hobbit.

The center ramps also just don't look kinetically appealing, with constant U-turns and repeat shots over and over, and they don't look physically appealing either. At least some Dwarf rune etching in them or something? Just plain metal, perfectly symmetrical. It looks lazy to me, in every aspect.

JJP should've known that players were expecting a fully interactive Smaug to blow them away. The drops are very cool, but in this new field of creativity where DP is able to produce a TBL prototype in far less time which is far more featured and polished, just having the same old playfield designers with the same old formulas is not going to work anymore (see TWD also). Disappointment needs to be expressed, so that JJP understands expectations were not met.

Hobbit video of gameplay was really depressing to this pre-orderer. I am leaning heavily towards moving on to TBL unless something really dramatic happens with TH and soon...

Oh, and yet again, the JJP pre-orders who have had their money down on the Limited Edition for two years were baited-and-switched again.... "Oh, you thought you were pre-ordering the supreme edition of this game? Hehe, just kidding, here's the REAL supreme version of the machine, available for more money..." That act is tired, too. Really? Again?

Definitely disappointed.

#703 5 years ago

If you pre-ordered, there is no up charge for whatever edition you prefer, it is a lateral move.

#704 5 years ago
Quoted from ulmpharmd:

If you pre-ordered, there is no up charge for whatever edition you prefer, it is a lateral move.

I missed that part. So the THLE pre-orderers can simply ask for a Smaug edition? Erase that complaint then. Good to know (not that it'll matter to me if the game isn't given a real shot in the arm somehow). I don't think I can get over the Smaug toy disappointment though. It's just bad.

#705 5 years ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

I own a ST and followed the threads pretty close but this seems different. There were similar complaints that the Vengence (Smaug) didn't do more and about the baked potatoes (book) and art direction. But with TH there seems to be more concern with aspects of the layout like the role of the 3rd flipper, distance to ramps and heavy reliance on drops. I agree that it could turn out to be a great game and personally am waiting to see how things develops.

Yeah; definitely. There were also a lot of complaints about the layout of ST, though, and how similar it was to STTNG (not to mention AC/DC, T3, etc). Those proved to be unwarranted for most people, though, because even though ST looks just like them, it plays a lot different thanks to some amazing rules by Lyman.

Like you said, waiting and seeing is exactly what I'm saying in regards to the code. Everyone's looking at the drop targets and smaug and the FT ramps and saying, "I can't see how I personally would make rules around them." like you can with normal ramps and bash targets. I'm excited for those reasons, though, because Keith has proven to be a master at coming up with innovative rules for things that no one else really has. EMCB is the most fun MB in WoZ, and it has some complex rules that revolve around the rollovers, which historically haven't been used as anything more than 'This rollover adds bonus'.

Maybe I'm too much of a software guy, but Keith promising 28 modes in The Hobbit was hands down the highlight of the expo for me. That guy is insanely good.

#706 5 years ago

I think the big lebowski stole the show. Hobbit will need some work to compete with The Big Lebowski. I want Hobbit to be great, but at $8500.00 i m not blown away and I'm happy I got out of my pre order. I do desperately want to play it and make an informed decision before I buy a hobbit. I also loathe the preorder model Jjp has started

#707 5 years ago
Quoted from alichino:

If you're actually skipping TH because off all the feedback, I'd go with Metallica or TWD instead. ST has all the same problems everyone's complaining about with The Hobbits. Unless you really_ like the rules of ST, but, in that case, why not wait to see what Keith comes up with?

All the code in the world can't make a game based primarily on drop targets fun! What is he going to do? Hit left target...now center target...now the one that's moving ...back to the center target and then finish it off with the FT ramps.

I was hoping to have been BLOWN away... figuratively not literally

11
#708 5 years ago

The angry mob has spoken...does not matter if you are Stern, PPS,JJP, DP, SkitB, Heighway, Spooky, JPop, Roit (I am sure I am forgetting a few others) subpar customer service, poor build quality along with incomplete code and S&M I got handcuffed excuses will not be tolerated. Plus the preorder system that keeps your money indefinitely BS has finally come to an end thanks to at least one manufacture out there. Now with more choices than ever, we are going to vote with our dollars. And the masses will have no loyalty unless it is earned. A lot of us feel betrayed with over promising and under delivering. *I forgot to include Python & P^3.

#709 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

There is a lot to the Hobbit™ that you cannot see -
How will all 15 targets work in the rules.
How the action button on the front molding controls features of the game - Smaug's Tail diverter that's on the ramp - how Smaug™ - how his speech taunts you and causes you to lose your ball. The depth of play, rules and modes - so much going on.

I think this is the most definitive response I've seen from Jack yet on the state of the game shown at expo. As I previously stated ... all the major mechanics are apparently there toy-wise. We're yet to see how the button on the lockdown bar will work with various game elements. Lots of game code to come which will certainly increase the fun factor. But I think it's becoming pretty obvious this is the final Smaug figure, he will not directly interact with the ball (at least not his head ... but the diverter is considered his tail.) The book is a final toy on the playfield (just a good opportunity for a mod there!) Basically it sounds like it really is 95%+ complete physically.

I do look forward to playing the game though. Some things are a bit of a letdown and some things (video / music / cabinet / # of modes) are better than expected.

#710 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

The angry mob has spoken...does not matter if you are Stern, PPS,JJP, DP, SkitB, Heighway, Spooky, JPop, Roit (I am sure I am forgetting a few others) subpar customer service, poor build quality along with incomplete code and S&M I got handcuffed excuses will not be tolerated. Plus the preorder system that keeps your money indefinitely BS has finally come to an end thanks to at least one manufacture out there. Now with more choices than ever, we are going to vote with our dollars. And the masses will have no loyalty unless it is earned. A lot of us feel betrayed with over promising and under delivering.
» YouTube video

Amazing that these guys don't see it. Complete lack of self awareness and arrogance

#711 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Amazing that these guys don't see it. Complete lack of self awareness and arrogance

It's easy for them to become complacent when we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of over and over again. This expo event was the tipping point in the other direction....FINALLY!

#712 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

After digesting everything for the last couple of days, watching videos, reading reviews on here of players I respect....I have to say this is disappointing. I'll definitely be getting a Star Trek Premium for my first NIB. Hobbit was the only other contender, and it has failed.
I'd consider getting TBL, but my local pinball arcade is going to get it anyway.
If there ever was a reason for Stern to pull LOTR out for a vault edition, now's the time.

If you are going LE get a AC/DC premium or MET premium ST is a good game but no value in the LE.

#713 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

It's easy for them to become complacent when we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of over and over again. This expo event was the tipping point in the other direction....FINALLY!

I hate the preorder model too, but it's not like people aren't hyping the he'll out of TBL, which is still in pre-alpha for every part of the software.

#714 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

This expo event was the tipping point in the other direction

Ditto, I think this expo will be remembered by all of us for some time as a watershed event.

#715 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I don't recall him being at the JJP seminar, was he? If not, it is peculiar, since it is his game.

Joe doesn't work for jjp anymore. If he was at the seminar he was a patron in the seats watching the jjp team. I did see Chris granner(spelling?sorry) in the back hanging out and asking questions. Saw Denis nordman thurs and Friday but not sure if he came to the seminar.

#716 5 years ago
Quoted from alichino:

Yeah; definitely. There were also a lot of complaints about the layout of ST, though, and how similar it was to STTNG (not to mention AC/DC, T3, etc). Those proved to be unwarranted for most people, though, because even though ST looks just like them, it plays a lot different thanks to some amazing rules by Lyman.
Like you said, waiting and seeing is exactly what I'm saying in regards to the code. Everyone's looking at the drop targets and smaug and the FT ramps and saying, "I can't see how I personally would make rules around them." like you can with normal ramps and bash targets. I'm excited for those reasons, though, because Keith has proven to be a master at coming up with innovative rules for things that no one else really has. EMCB is the most fun MB in WoZ, and it has some complex rules that revolve around the rollovers, which historically haven't been used as anything more than 'This rollover adds bonus'.
Maybe I'm too much of a software guy, but Keith promising 28 modes in The Hobbit was hands down the highlight of the expo for me. That guy is insanely good.

Nobody is arguing that the rules wont be good but you need some wow on the aesthetics of the machine to immerse you into that world or its a failed attempt that likely cant be saved by code atleast I know thats how it is for me.

-1
#717 5 years ago

Only saw part of movie 1 and trailers for 2 & 3. so had to look up what a wind lance was.

WindLance.jpg

Also came across this article and found it interesting, sorry for the derailment.

IBTL4.jpg

Top 10 list of things that surprised audiences in ‘The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug’

DECEMBER 20, 2013 at 2:15 AM BY GARFEIMAO -
DOS dragon eye posterAdditional characters aside, as they were all known before going in so they can’t be a surprise anyhow, here is a list of things that have surprised audiences in ‘The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug’ this past week since the film’s release.

1) Legolas got a bloody nose, which seemed to surprise him almost as much as it surprised the audience. He’s never been wobbly in a battle before, not sure if that is going to make him more cautious or not as he chases after Bolg, the one who inflicted the injury.

2) Smaug seems surprisingly well informed. He knew that Thorin had earned the nickname of Oakenshield while out in Middle-earth after the fall of Erebor. Smaug also seems fully aware that a Dark Power is rising and that there is an impending war coming. Now if we can just figure out who is feeding him this intel.

3) A Wind Lance, really? Not a standard Long Bow? How disappointing, although it is wicked cool looking and realistically makes more sense, it is not the image most fans were expecting from Bard the Bowman.

4) So Kili gets injured and is left behind in Lake-town, along with 3 other Dwarves. Wow! the Breaking of the Company. The fact he was injured by a Morgul bladed arrow was also a surprise.

5) The Orcs were chasing the Dwarves down the river and fighting the Elves in full sunlight? What’s up with that?

6) The other surprising bit with Smaug is that he could sense the Ring’s presence and by force of will convince Bilbo to take the Ring off. Yipes! It’s a power similar to that of the Nazgul.

7) Back to Bree we go, and this time the guy sitting in the corner is actually dangerous, and that dude munching on a carrot is back.

The Spiders did speak, but only Bilbo can hear them when he wears the Ring. Well, except for when he took the Ring off and stabbed that one spider, who then says “it stings” before dying, giving Sting it’s name. So the Spider’s speaking was a surprise, and the way it was handled was a surprise, but there is at least one inconsistency to this plot device. Does anyone care about that? Probably not, cause the spiders were creepy as all heck.

9) Gandalf entering Dol Guldur alone, first facing Azog and having to resort to trickery to get away, and then the big face off with the Necromancer, who reveals himself fully to Gandalf. The endless emptiness that is Sauron is epic.

10) While not surprised that the molten hot gold did not seem to injure Smaug, the most surprising bit in that whole sequence was just how transfixed Smaug was when the Golden Dwarf statue was revealed. He looked like an animal caught in a Cobra’s stare, which is probably the reverse of what Smaug normally encounters.

#718 5 years ago

I think the mood of most of the JJP fans is 'stunned and shocked'. And then followed by 'concern and doubt'. The back of the machine is so empty it is scary. The VUK covers aren't pretty at all either.

Holding my preorder for now to see if JJP make a diamond out of this. And wait till you see the code approach may not salvage it.

#719 5 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Projects come and go. One day designing pins, the next something else. The next designing pins again.
My point is I think people are waaaayyyyy too quick to read into the fact that JB isn't at JJP right now and doing something else now that TH's basic playfield design is done, when it is a totally innocuous, typical thing in the pinball business historically.
And if you had seen Joe at expo, you should go up to him and say hi, because he's friendly, and knows pinball.

I SERIOUSLY doubt Balcer will ever step foot into JJP again.......

#720 5 years ago
Quoted from robotronjohn:

I SERIOUSLY doubt Balcer will ever step foot into JJP again.......

See, that is concerning to me. People want to say that stuff like this is no big deal and it happens all the time, but I have also heard stories from Pat Lawlor and Steve Ritchie about the designer needing to be there all the way through the process ESPECIALLY once it gets on to the line/production. It makes me wonder why Balcer left and if he was at Expo, since he was the designer, why not have him there to answer questions? It's also telling to me that Dennis Nordman was "in" with JJP and then very quietly "out"...

#721 5 years ago

Good God. Can't believe what a train wreck this has turned into in just a few short days. Never would have imagined this outcome. Thought after the Expo reveal they would be sold out with people fighting to buy

#722 5 years ago
Quoted from Jnewton:

See, that is concerning to me. People want to say that stuff like this is no big deal and it happens all the time, but I have also heard stories from Pat Lawlor and Steve Ritchie about the designer needing to be there all the way through the process ESPECIALLY once it gets on to the line/production. It makes me wonder why Balcer left and if he was at Expo, since he was the designer, why not have him there to answer questions? It's also telling to me that Dennis Nordman was "in" with JJP and then very quietly "out"...

Jjp team is better now then its ever been! Great group of guys from Matt, to Eric, to Jim t, Ted, pat, David,Keith, butch, and people u guys don't know like Fernando, and the guys building the line... The team only gets better not worse. The company is here to stay game two is shown and almost done, game three is hot on its heals.

#723 5 years ago
Quoted from tb2767:

Good God. Can't believe what a train wreck this has turned into in just a few short days. Never would have imagined this outcome. Thought after the Expo reveal they would be sold out with people fighting to buy

Who says there not selling more. Vendors are selling and taking money both at the jjp and laboswki team

#724 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

The company is here to stay game two is shown and almost done, game three is hot on its heals.

I hope their heals are on FIRE! TH was a huge let down to me

#725 5 years ago
Quoted from tb2767:

Good God. Can't believe what a train wreck this has turned into in just a few short days. Never would have imagined this outcome. Thought after the Expo reveal they would be sold out with people fighting to buy

Given my disappointment with TWD and pulling out of my pre-order, I was hoping to at least be impressed, if not blown away, by the Hobbit reveal at Expo so I could pull the trigger on it instead (I've got space and money burning a hole in my pocket).

Instead I'm even more disappointed with Hobbit than TWD.

Looks like my money will stay in my pocket for now and wait until titles like TBL and Alien(s) are available.

#726 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Instead I'm even more disappointed with Hobbit than TWD.

I am too, and I was thinking before Sterns reveal I would like to get TWD as my first Stern. I can't believe after the expo there would be more threads asking if people are going to abort the hobbit than giving praises and trying to buy preorders! Didn't see this coming at all.

#727 5 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I am too, and I was thinking before Sterns reveal I would like to get TWD as my first Stern. I can't believe after the expo there would be more threads asking if people are going to abort the hobbit than giving praises and trying to buy preorders! Didn't see this coming at all.

There was at least one Pinsider who saw this coming unfortunately.

10
#728 5 years ago
Quoted from tb2767:

Good God. Can't believe what a train wreck this has turned into in just a few short days. Never would have imagined this outcome. Thought after the Expo reveal they would be sold out with people fighting to buy

No one's peeing on The Dude's rug but plenty are taking a dump on Bilbo's

#729 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

I do look forward to playing the game though. Some things are a bit of a letdown and some things (video / music / cabinet / # of modes) are better than expected.

Funny how CraZ4Pin who was accused of trolling the JJP threads is now the wise one.

Even if I have no horse in that race, I have been watching the JJP threads for months. I have been surprised by:
- the hype spread by JJP fans with little substance (besides a few elements that were not so good in my humble opinion). Remember what was the fate for those who dared criticize JJP ?
- the extremely high expectations for Smaug,
- now by the huge - and perhaps excessive - disappointment after the Expo. Reminds me of the Predator bashing some time ago.

#730 5 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Personally would have preferred Smaug to be in view all the time, no rock. Have him sleeping and then eyes open and he roars.

Really there is almost no additional effort, only a small amount of programming required to make that happen. Just position him face forward and eliminate the -180 degree starting position. Smaug can still move head side to side, talk, follow the ball etc. Maybe JJP can consider switching to this approach. Any rework effort would be focused on refining Smaug toy and surround.

#731 5 years ago

You called it CraZPin - I'll give you that. But, JJP may get the last laugh - we'll see.

Interesting thing to add though: My son (11) is/was excited about getting the hobbit. I though I would let him see the video of the game (what little I could find) to get his response. I didn't say anything except "Check this out" and ran video. He watched the whole thing and didn't say anything (except one quick 'cool' when Smaug turned). After it was over there was no "That was awesome/amazing' or "Can't wait to play it", etc. rather he looked over and just said with a forced smile "are you still going to get it"?

#732 5 years ago

Way too early to bury any of these pins and as far as TBL goes consider me a rug pisser.

#733 5 years ago

The thing that gets me is, that original line drawing of the playfield looked sooooo dang exciting & enticing. My expectations were so high on how cool this gameplay was going to be.
But now? oy-vey.

-1
#734 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No one's peeing on The Dude's rug but plenty are taking a dump on Bilbo's

Bilbo Teabaggins is the proper nomenclature.

#735 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

consider me a rug pisser.

The rest of us are house broken or wear Depends adult diapers thank goodness.

#736 5 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Funny how CraZ4Pin who was accused of trolling the JJP threads is now the wise one.

Equally funny to me is that I actually now find myself defending the game itself, lol (albeit not JJP business practices.) I think there really are a lot of cool things in the game (I just think it's a little overpriced now). I never had crazy expectations for Smaug (although I did think he would physically interact with the ball at least.) I've stated previously I didn't expect many toys in the game (because I couldn't see where they could be fit in.) But, the fact that there will be 28+ modes and presumably (I hope) a lot more video clips (I'm a JP fan) and callouts is great. The sound seems amazing. I like the SE cabinet (although I still think the red trim Aurich went with looked better and the fact that there is another edition period is terrible IMO.)

#737 5 years ago

Reviewing this thread, there is plenty of criticism and suggestions for improvement for JJP to consider (heck it probably is a good five hour read). Nobody is focused on software as of this reveal, but if I had to guess, would say they were six + months away from complete software. So why not take that time to address the artistic elements and requisite approval process, rather than rush into production to meet a false deadline? Other than producing a few sample machines by December, JJP is free to delay release until it is closer to being what the market wants to see. Should they decide this is a worthwhile approach, Jack could come clean and say they are reworking elements and expect to see a production model by Summer. This allows his customers to understand that their concerns are being addressed and confirms TH is still evolving.

There are so many great things with this game that are being overlooked because of some of the negatives. Cabinet art, playfield art, layout (looks interesting and fun to me), flow, lcd - all get a thumbs up. But if you watched all the videos or for played the game, do you have a good understanding of the game? Well you can't because the game is nowhere near completion. It looks cool for what it is so far and if JJP were to acknowledge their game was still being developed, they could have avoided the meltdown. It is never too late for them to give us their assessment and indicate what kinds of stuff they may be changing. I believe if they were to say they are working on things, a general comment rings hollow. If all they were planning to do was add some stickers is different than they will be refining x, y & z. It is better to be specific to give a sense of the magnitude of effort left.

#738 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Given my disappointment with TWD and pulling out of my pre-order, I was hoping to at least be impressed, if not blown away, by the Hobbit reveal at Expo so I could pull the trigger on it instead (I've got space and money burning a hole in my pocket).
Instead I'm even more disappointed with Hobbit than TWD.
Looks like my money will stay in my pocket for now and wait until titles like TBL and Alien(s) are available.

Enjoy that wait. I'm gonna be rockin' my TWDLE.

Not too late to get one Rob? C'mon, LE ain't gonna be no Pro.

#739 5 years ago

LE isn't going to change how the ball exits the pops between the well walker and ball guide.

#740 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Enjoy that wait. I'm gonna be rockin' my TWDLE.
Not too late to get one Rob? C'mon, LE ain't gonna be no Pro.

Layout will be the same.

#741 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Way too early to bury any of these pins and as far as TBL goes consider me a rug pisser.

Did you play it?

#742 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Jjp team is better now then its ever been! Great group of guys from Matt, to Eric, to Jim t, Ted, pat, David,Keith, butch, and people u guys don't know like Fernando, and the guys building the line... The team only gets better not worse. The company is here to stay game two is shown and almost done, game three is hot on its heals.

Agree that the creative team is top notch. My concern is with the business practices of the company in general. I want to get the game, think it looks stunning and will provide hours of enjoyment. But will probably get it on the secondary market.

20
#743 5 years ago

Image4.jpg

#744 5 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Did you play it?

No exactly my point, glad you called me on it. I haven't thus I won't bash it, the theme kills my interest but how many people that are putting this game in the dumpster already have actually played in any real depth and just the opposite for TBL I would like to know WHY? If its a case of appearance then let me say that it can be misleading. I just hate that this happens every new release but when a game mirrors B/W of course it can do know wrong, Classic.

#745 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Way too early to bury any of these pins and as far as TBL goes consider me a rug pisser.

Listen to coast 2 coast pinball podcast from the 26 min mark. You will hear him say that the TBL pre alpha code in someways is more complete than the TWD code that hit the streets already. Ouch.

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-113-expo-2014-day-1_28797

#746 5 years ago
Quoted from alichino:

If you're actually skipping TH because off all the feedback, I'd go with Metallica or TWD instead. ST has all the same problems everyone's complaining about with The Hobbits. Unless you really_ like the rules of ST, but, in that case, why not wait to see what Keith comes up with?

Keith can do amazing things and can make a game that would normally be half ass into something great.

Software at the show was extremely primitive, so you can't really base it off of that. I didn't like the layout and the gameplay kinda sucked, but awesome rules can salvage it.

Look at LOTR. Boring layout. Typical fan pattern, not a lot of toys. Overall very bland. Keith made that game into a masterpiece. So he's done it before. And I know he loves the LOTR universe, so he will put his heart into this software. Time will tell.

#747 5 years ago
Quoted from catboxer:

Image4.jpg 26 KB

hahahahaha

#748 5 years ago

Does Smog sing JJP dont worry be happy?

#749 5 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

You called it CraZPin - I'll give you that. But, JJP may get the last laugh - we'll see.
Interesting thing to add though: My son (11) is/was excited about getting the hobbit. I though I would let him see the video of the game (what little I could find) to get his response. I didn't say anything except "Check this out" and ran video. He watched the whole thing and didn't say anything (except one quick 'cool' when Smaug turned). After it was over there was no "That was awesome/amazing' or "Can't wait to play it", etc. rather he looked over and just said with a forced smile "are you still going to get it"?

similar experience with my 11yo. He also added that they should have just made a huge, cool looking Smaug instead of a little head that turns around. At least that you you'd see him and be wow'd by his presence.

#750 5 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

similar experience with my 11yo. He also added that they should have just made a huge, cool looking Smaug instead of a little head that turns around. At least that you you'd see him and be wow'd by his presence.

Some owners of both TBL and TH are planning on covering the Smog and book mods with a rug.

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