All I'm going to say is this- Hobbit looks good to me personally, and I can't wait to play it. But my days of pre-ordering/pre-paying are over.

With an account made 15 seconds before that post. Hmm. Suspect.

No flies on you! I'm still in but want to get an assessment from others that saw and played the game. Also impressions and perspective of more than the vocal few.

Why do people say this? It's just like the whitewoods we saw earlier - just because a version of Hobbit was at Expo doesn't necessarily mean it's the most current version. I agree you're not going to fix everything that needs to be fixed this close to production, but that doesn't mean it hasn't already been fixed.

But considering its expo and two months til release why would you hold back anything or at least talk about it.

After digesting everything for the last couple of days, watching videos, reading reviews on here of players I respect....I have to say this is disappointing. I'll definitely be getting a Star Trek Premium for my first NIB. Hobbit was the only other contender, and it has failed.

I'd consider getting TBL, but my local pinball arcade is going to get it anyway.

If there ever was a reason for Stern to pull LOTR out for a vault edition, now's the time.

I'm not cancelling my preorder yet. I say give JJP some time to take all of the feedback in and respond. There are a lot of cool things on The Hobbit but there's just a few things that need to be addressed such as the book, apron, VUK covers, and the incomplete look around Smaug. These are the guys that did WOZ so I'll bet that some of the concerns are addressed. Fingers crossed.

They partnered up with Spooky to build these games instead of using a friend of a friend's basement.

The op may be new but that does not mean the voters are.

I wouldn't. But I don't run JJP.

He busted me, I started the survey. While I didn't put anything negative in there, simply polling reaction to the reveal. JJP can use the survey as a no nonsense way to gauge if they are on the right path or if they need to lift the kimono a bit higher to calm the natives if it shows a lot of folks are now on the fence or planning on canceling. Why did I create it under an alias? I have been a supporter of JJP for the most part and thought the survey might be construed as a negative thing somehow. Poorly thought out actually.

IMO, the outpouring at Expo and online is simply due to JJP not quite communicating what this machine is that we saw at Expo. Is this an old prototype? A new prototype? A production model? I think most are under the impression this is a close-to-production machine based on the presentation. Sadly, instead of confirming/not confirming that, we spent time rambling and casually joking, and hooking up impromptu iPads during the roughly planned and ultimately (IMO) uninformative presentation.

Aside from Keith's which I found very exciting, essentially zero time was spent explaining why anyone would want to drop 9k on this machine. All I learned is how now I can spend even more money on even fancier cab decals, and how heavy the thing is.

So then you are clear on the status of the games we will see built in two-three months time? Or you are just assuming based on what you saw?

having played this game this weekend. I was overall disappointed. Was hoping for more. Very big open space.

Smaug was a letdown. It's basically Joker in a coffee can like BDK all over again. Doesn't nothing but reveal himself, move his mouth and rotate back again. I was hoping for some real interaction, like JP's Dino or something that is actually useful. :/

Book toy is large and useless.

But I did like the drop targets in front of targets and the scoop that would move to block shots and reveal the scoop on a timer. that was a nice aspect.

the flippers felt too weak to make the long shot across the entire playfield and make up the fish tales ramps. Flippers struggled to make those shots smooth.

Haha ah ok I see what you meant. I also didn't mean to imply JJP intentionally is misleading anyone, I just don't think they were very clear on what this Expo machine represents vs what will be delivered. There's a lot of conjecture that "there's more to come" and that "this is it"

Personally, if this is really 90-95% done, I'm thinking there's some dark clouds on the horizon for JJP I'm really hoping this is a whitewood and some parts from 6 months ago that got cobbled into an artwork PF/Cabinet in a hurry for Expo and JJP was hoping it would suffice (which it has not imo).

How many machines were actually at Expo? Was it a single machine, or were there multiple instances of TH available for play?

To me it's a major earthquake. As if I heard the Pope converted to Buddhism...

_{Post edited by jlm33: edited for clarity: speaking about Panzer}

Lucky you... Count your blessings ! I wish I had an Arcade like that nearby!

So what does the upper flipper do, does it make any shots that cannot be made with the lower 2 flippers?

In the cold light of day I would really like to hear something from JJP at some point.

Color DMD is now ready for LOTR?

This thread just got dope

Where is the info/video?

Announced at Expo. 2 LOTR's on the floor with Color DMD. Looks great!

All this is why I never preorder anything without having seen and touched it.... problem is that if dozens of people cancel their TH order, it might be difficult for Jack.

Smaug needed to swallow the ball's, Interact with it. (Collect them)
No need to say we couldn't do it because or rights etc.
(Smaug doesn't swallow pinballs in the movie!)

So why is Smaug Gold?
Why did thay allow this then, He is not Gold in the Movie!

Also not very fond of the upkicker ramps with decals
Wire upkicker ramps would have looked smarter and allow view thru the while playing.

I'm very happy with my WOZLE, But sadly will not be getting the THLE.

Smaug could use a good Bilbo Teabaggins for sure. Interacting, spitting and swallowing lots-o-balls till desolation of swag sets in.

desolation-of-swag.jpg

Then you didn't see the movie. He gets drenched in molten gold.

My bad, So he was Gold for 15 seconds.

Spoiler alert for those of us who have not seen the movie?
Is that how smaug dies?

Punctured lung followed by a collapsed lung was what the autopsy revealed.

Jack you need to make a statement to stop the bleeding. Big decision day for me on whether to bail on the hobbit or stay if Jack clues us in on what more we can expect. Or you can just stay silent and watch all your hobbit dollars go to The Big Lebowski.

IMG_20141019_062400.jpg

I've been reading a lot lately and I basically agree with a lot being said. I'm keeping my pre-order at this point and already switched it to the SE which I do think looks amazing.

That said, when I showed the video to my 11 year old son who has been really excited about Smaug and this pin in general, he was like "that's all? I would rather see a big Smaug that does nothing."

I concur. A big, badass looking Smaug that doesn't spin around but still talks would be better than what they have now. Obviously even better was the Smaug we were expecting to interact, but at least you'd have a cool looking feature that you could see 100% of the time.

Yeah not sure what the spinning round is supposed to achieve, after the first time you've seen him the surprise has gone.

The only goal for the person(s) designing Smaug should have been to make him magnificent like his title. Sorry to say that at the moment he is anything but.

If nothing else, please fix the scale of those coins, that would be a big improvement to at least give some sense of how big he is.

Really that's it? Is it done?

endFirstMovie1.png

What nobody seems to be asking here is this:

Why wasn't the rights holder told what the designers wanted to do with the rights (e.g. make Smaug eat and interact with pinballs) before the rights were purchased?

Hello? Those things need be negotiated (and contracted for) BEFORE one acquires the rights and spends a year or more developing a product....

I've been a JJP supporter and have a TH on order, but don't lie to me and tell me that "they wouldn't allow it." You should have figured that out before you bought the rights and before you made the representations to the preordering public like me.

Because that's not quite how it works.

Besides, I see no reason for having Smaug eat balls. It would've looked like JJP just copied JP. It is only understandable why stuff that don't fit the theme aren't in the game. Jack could've come up with something different though. There have been plenty suggestions.

we don't know if smaug dies. 3rd movie isn't out yet.

Unless you've read the book

This seems like the game without a designer. If there was a top designer still at the helm it would give some confidence that they'd listen to the feedback and work hard to get it right. Even the best designers get it wrong sometimes but I think Pinside would be more in a wait and see mode if we were giving feedback to a respected designer vs a "businessman." Same reason no one is really worried about the code on TH or TWD.

Maybe Jackson keeps Smaug alive to justify a fourth film?

I don't believe Joe Balcer was even at expo? Not part of the group photo with the game? He left the game months ago, rumored before Smaug was done. So, yeah, something is up.

Joe was wondering around at expo on his own Thursday night.

Um....

Super Mario Bros. Mushroom World had 10.

*edit* Hold that thought, going to doublecheck myself to see if SMBMW was up AND down per prior discussions...

The design was/is done (though who knows if we've SEEN everything), so Joe was done on this project for JJP. As we all know, PL is the designer for JJP3. So Joe's services not needed for now. So he freelances until then. Not unusual at all for project driven manufacturers.

Joe's a great and talented guy. Just like before Hobbit, he'll be back and forth on many pin projects for years to come.

He will? He's got a new job and its not designing pinball machines. That ship has sailed

If you're actually skipping TH because off all the feedback, I'd go with Metallica or TWD instead. ST has all the same problems everyone's complaining about with The Hobbits. Unless you really_ like the rules of ST, but, in that case, why not wait to see what Keith comes up with?

Projects come and go. One day designing pins, the next something else. The next designing pins again.

My point is I think people are waaaayyyyy too quick to read into the fact that JB isn't at JJP right now and doing something else now that TH's basic playfield design is done, when it is a totally innocuous, typical thing in the pinball business historically.

And if you had seen Joe at expo, you should go up to him and say hi, because he's friendly, and knows pinball.

I don't recall him being at the JJP seminar, was he? If not, it is peculiar, since it is his game.

Much like the rest of the movies, it was like 15 minutes of buildup for 15 seconds of something that ends up not really mattering.

I loved the half hour bit at the beginning of the second movie where they basically just get horses... then immediately ride the horses to the start of the movie (my mind may be exaggerating in terms of the time... but it really is clear how they padded this out to three movies even on my first viewing).

I agree it is odd; but what do I know.

Being 100% honest it does make me think the parting was not 100% friendly though.

I own a ST and followed the threads pretty close but this seems different. There were similar complaints that the Vengence (Smaug) didn't do more and about the baked potatoes (book) and art direction. But with TH there seems to be more concern with aspects of the layout like the role of the 3rd flipper, distance to ramps and heavy reliance on drops. I agree that it could turn out to be a great game and personally am waiting to see how things develop.