SM is there a better FLOW pin than SM?

STLE is the better game, cased closed.

#56 9 years ago

DFS

Vyzer2

Pinside+ Addict

Jefferson, NJ

12y 103K 2,356 11

It took me about 50 games to get into sm. I was actually a bit worried after I bought it but something just clicked and now I have been playing it all the time. I also have st and lotr....to me they are all really good in thier own right. It's great to have a bunch of games that your not sure which one to play next.

#57 9 years ago

JMK

Pinside member

10y 82,800 950 6 50

SM is an awesome and fun pin- loaded with toys. I have owned a mint example for some time now and it gets plenty of attention. However, I would still give the nod to ACDC premium for buttery flow and ramps/loops that can be hit so seamlessly. I think ACDC/MET premiums and SM are 3 of the smoothest and best designed pins ever made by Stern. The rules on all 3 are also tremendous which gives them the edge over STLE (a nice looking, fast flowing fairly shallow game with few interactive toys IMO).
Regardless, SM is definitely a long-term keeper.

-6

#58 9 years ago

ROK

pinmister

Pinside member

11y 129K 7,643

Quoted from luckymoey:
I'm surprised JM hasn't been nominated yet.

JM lasted one week in my home. Talk about slow and anti-flow. The hand drove me crazy-brrrrr-brrrr stop and go with no flow.

My top "Flow" machines-

#1 ST LE-also the fastest game ever produced
#2 Metallica
#3 Tron
#4 Spiderman
#5 Rolling Stones LE tied with T3

#59 9 years ago

NTR

TheFamilyArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

New City, NY

11y 104K 9,961 5 37

Flow schmo. SM is flat out one of the top 5 pins ever made. It has everything.

#60 9 years ago

ZOD

Hazoff

Inactive member

I can't believe anyone could deem STLE shallow and SM as a deeper game. Please explain? Yes they are different in gameplay but equally filled with lots to do and with STLE having a great lightshow, better theme for me anyway and truly fastest, smoothest flow it beats SM and AC/DC but hey that's just like my opinion man.

#61 9 years ago

ODB

Gryszzz

Pinside+ Frequent

Indianapolis, IN

10y 120K 13,263 9

I spent most of my time at Expo playing SM.
Love this machine. Will own,...one day.

#62 9 years ago

DAS

luckymoey

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 105K 2,079 44 1

Quoted from pinmister:
JM lasted one week in my home. Talk about slow and anti-flow. The hand drove me crazy-brrrrr-brrrr stop and go with no flow.

I've heard plenty of people complain about the hand but never call JM slow. Agree it's not non-stop flow but hitting 3 or 4 loops in a row may produce the fastest ball speeds of any game (a lot faster than ST), and nailing the ramps back-and-forth during Yakuza Strike is similar to ST. I'd give the nod to ST but not by much.

#63 9 years ago

JON

JonH123

Pinside member

9y 65,150 951

Post last edited 9 years ago.

#64 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from Hazoff:
smoothest flow it beats SM and AC/DC but hey that's just like my opinion man.

Seeing as though you have 3 of 7 Star Trek games I'm sure we won't be able to change your mind!

Even though you are blinded with bias if you had enough games played on those two I think you would at least admit it to yourself that you are wrong!

#65 9 years ago

ZOD

Hazoff

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from iceman44:
Seeing as though you have 3 of 7 Star Trek games I'm sure we won't be able to change your mind!
Even though you are blinded with bias if you had enough games played on those two I think you would at least admit it to yourself that you are wrong!

Never, I played a ton of Spiderman and I see what you're saying but the theme of SM kills it for me and maybe vice versa with ST for you fellas. I'm sticking to my guns and declare STLE the fastest flowing game currently available. But I do respect SM as a close 2nd or 3rd, IM, Met and TWDLE are pretty good candidates in the speed and flow category. I just love that there are so many as I do prefer that style of gameplay to stop an go.

#66 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from Hazoff:
TWDLE are pretty good candidates in the speed and flow category

Glad to hear that, I'll be setting mine up tomorrow, already have the beer iced down!

#67 9 years ago

ZOD

Hazoff

Inactive member

Is see guys bug you about being a coors light man and if that's true then we have one thing that for sure we can both agree upon as that's my beer of choice. Love it, Although I think in Canada light beer is 4% and you guys its 3.5, not sure. Anyway you're going to love TWDLE, enjoy.

#68 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

Pinside+ Pro!

11y 164K 13,478 1

Must agree w Ice...you can get in a " groove" w SM, and it just is a really fun, fast flowing game...think the callouts fit great, and just a classic on its own, period, IMO....I'll leave it alone for awhile, but never disappoints when I go back to it......definitely a keeper for me....mark

#69 9 years ago

MOF

mof

Mof Pinball

San Francisco, CA

11y 149K 13,304 25 94

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Best flow - and the win goes to .... Black Knight. Fast, furious and fun.

I have to agree that 4-flipper games have better flow than 2-flipper games.

GL, BK and Seawitch all have great flow...

GL has the best flow of any game I've ever played.

-mof

#70 9 years ago

SAM

smassa

Pinside member

Quoted from Hazoff:
STLE is the better game, cased closed.

#71 9 years ago

SAM

smassa

Pinside member

Quoted from Hazoff:
I can't believe anyone could deem STLE shallow and SM as a deeper game. Please explain? Yes they are different in gameplay but equally filled with lots to do and with STLE having a great lightshow, better theme for me anyway and truly fastest, smoothest flow it beats SM and AC/DC but hey that's just like my opinion man.

I think you've been blinded by ST lasers. ST shoots nice but the code is awful. Hopefully Lyman some day gets around to it and does a total reboot of the game code.

#72 9 years ago

FRG

frg

Pinside member

14y 79,150 460 4 88

Quoted from smassa:
Hopefully Lyman some day gets around to it and does a total reboot of the game code.

Yes - hopefully! One of my biggest disappointments which ended in a nearly 1k loss since nobody wanted to buy it... which I totally understand!

#73 9 years ago

JOE

BestShot31

Inactive member

Upper Freehold, NJ

10y 65,400 739 4 56

Putting it in perspective - ST/STLE is no doubt an excellent pin all around. I own a ST pro and love it. I played and would like to own a SM and believe its an excellent pin too. However, the more I play SM, the more I appreciate what gameplay, challenges, sound and overall theme of ST.

#74 9 years ago

JON

JonH123

Pinside member

9y 65,150 951

Post last edited 9 years ago.

#75 9 years ago

FRI

FrederikFrost

Pinside member

Smørum

10y 41,550 627 7

Quoted from JonH123:
SM or STLE. Why choose between the two? Why not just get both?

Because then you have a ST taking up space

#76 9 years ago

JON

JonH123

Pinside member

9y 65,150 951

Post last edited 9 years ago.

#77 9 years ago

NTR

TheFamilyArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

New City, NY

11y 104K 9,961 5 37

Close thread. I heard Ice suggest TWD is now better than SM. Two words: honey, moon.

#78 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
Close thread. I heard Ice suggest TWD is now better than SM. Two words: honey, moon.

"POTENTIAL" to be better than SM, and I think it will be when Lyman gets done with it!

#79 9 years ago

ZOD

Hazoff

Inactive member

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
Close thread. I heard Ice suggest TWD is now better than SM. Two words: honey, moon.

You love the honeymoon phase, I told you on another thread it doesn't apply here. Its ok to think that and I understand where you are coming from but please know that TWDLE really is something special. If I was you I would sell AVLE fast and pick up at least a TWD pro.
I think that TWDLE is going to be one of those hard to find and expensive LE's like AC/DC and Tron. Even though 600 are made will still be difficult, I could be wrong.

#80 9 years ago

MVM

markmon

Inactive member

Hillsboro, OR

13y 98,300 13,010 21 81

I don't think twd has the layout to be better than spiderman.

#81 9 years ago

NTR

TheFamilyArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

New City, NY

11y 104K 9,961 5 37

Quoted from Hazoff:
You love the honeymoon phase, I told you on another thread it doesn't apply here. Its ok to think that and I understand where you are coming from but please know that TWDLE really is something special. If I was you I would sell AVLE fast and pick up at least a TWD pro.
I think that TWDLE is going to be one of those hard to find and expensive LE's like AC/DC and Tron. Even though 600 are made will still be difficult, I could be wrong.

When you are on your honeymoon and you say "I'm so in love, and it's NOT the honeymoon phase!", you may be telling the truth, but it sounds funny! It's a cliche for a reason.

I hope you're right about TWDLE, and I hope they make and sell a million Premiums. Once the code is done I might buy one.

I'd love to sell my AVLE. I just can't find anyone stupid enough to buy it.

#82 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from markmon:
I don't think twd has the layout to be better than spiderman.

I think it does, let's get the full rules in and see. The shots, flow and combos are spectacular, and the use of the magnets so far add some excellent randomness. Great theme integration so far.

I love em both. What can I say, the sound and light show on TWD is just far superior.

TFA, the code is better than ST right now, because ST blows imo

#83 9 years ago

ZOD

Hazoff

Inactive member

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
When you are on your honeymoon and you say "I'm so in love, and it's NOT the honeymoon phase!", you may be telling the truth, but it sounds funny! It's a cliche for a reason.
I hope you're right about TWDLE, and I hope they make and sell a million Premiums. Once the code is done I might buy one.
I'd love to sell my AVLE. I just can't find anyone stupid enough to buy it.

Fair enough, we all want great games. If you like AVLE then I'm glad for you. I liked IJ4 so taste differs.

#84 9 years ago

KHS

ZenTron

Pinside member

Concord, NC

10y 104K 2,292 3

Lets see, SM has best flow and TWD has potential to be better. Yup, iceman44 owns them both..

#85 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from ZenTron:
Lets see, SM has best flow and TWD has potential to be better. Yup, iceman44 owns them both..

But I own Ac/dc and Lotr too and I'm not saying that about those two You would probably say ST and IM because you own those two even though you'd be wrong, just because IM is brutal fast doesn't mean it has great flow, it doesn't

#86 9 years ago

YME

PaulCoff

Pinside member

Northern California, CA

11y 77,100 2,057 9

I just don't see ST aging well. The ramps are cool, but cheaply made. SM will always be a solid/fast pin with more lanes.

-3

#87 9 years ago

KHS

ZenTron

Pinside member

Concord, NC

10y 104K 2,292 3

The best ramps/flow of any recent Stern game is Tron LE.

#88 9 years ago

SAZ

Baiter

Pinside member

Westminster, CO

12y 69,400 3,910 13 15

DM feels more "flowy" to me than SM. I'd define flow as non-stop where speed takes a lesser role.

#89 9 years ago

JRK

jrivelli

TrueColor Protectors

Milwaukie, OR

11y 89,650 4,625 10 20

OP
Quoted from iceman44:
I think it does, let's get the full rules in and see. The shots, flow and combos are spectacular, and the use of the magnets so far add some excellent randomness. Great theme integration so far.
I love em both. What can I say, the sound and light show on TWD is just far superior.
TFA, the code is better than ST right now, because ST blows imo

Right pop needs to be turned off otherwise it has very little flow

#90 9 years ago

JCS

jeffspinballpalace

JeffSPinballPalace

20y 242K 19,063 556

Quoted from mof:
GL has the best flow of any game I've ever played.
-mof

so then GL must be your educated guess...

-2

#91 9 years ago

JTK

Captain_Kirk

Inactive member

10y 55,400 3,497

Star Trek Premium/LE destroys Spiderman.

Ritchie doesn't even have SM in his home.

#92 9 years ago

JIG

jwilson

Pinball Art Prints

Toronto, ON

9y 106K 5,052 6 7

I played a SM last night and the ramps do flow nicely. However, there was a STLE sitting next to it and it was more fun.

I guess it's subjective!

#93 9 years ago

MOF

mof

Mof Pinball

San Francisco, CA

11y 149K 13,304 25 94

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
so then GL must be your educated guess...

GL or Seawitch. I'd need to play them back to back to be sure.
No worries -- Not everyone has the same definition of flow...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-flow
Some people still consider a game that traps a ball for 7+ seconds, while showing a DMD animation as "flow". Hehe.

-mof

#94 9 years ago

SAM

smassa

Pinside member

Quoted from markmon:
I don't think twd has the layout to be better than spiderman.

Holy shit I finally agree with something you said!

TWD has too many shots that end up in the pops where SM has control gates to bypass them during combos. This fact alone makes SM flow much better.

#95 9 years ago

SAZ

Baiter

Pinside member

Westminster, CO

12y 69,400 3,910 13 15

Flow is only a part of what may or may not make a game "fun" ... too many people try to equate the two.

Anyone disagree that Orbitor 1 is THE ultimate flow game?

#96 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from smassa:
Holy shit I finally agree with something you said!
TWD has too many shots that end up in the pops where SM has control gates to bypass them during combos. This fact alone makes SM flow much better.

Dang Smassa, you go through pins like shit through a goose!

There is actually only one shot that ends up in the pops, Riot lane, if you hit the tunnel shot clean its a screaming loop and a great combo shot.

When my ball does go into the pops it has a lot more random action and spends less time in there than Ac/dc, we know exactly how its coming out of those pops, every time.

#97 9 years ago

indybru

Pinside+ Frequent

Barrington, IL

9y 105K 1,683 9 11

The only time I played SM was at the Pinball Expo and it was a blast.

Maybe it was the flow or it could be blasting the Sandman.

-1

#98 9 years ago

ZIN

Manbearpig

Pinside member

Harrisburg, PA

13y 73,350 1,186 11 61

What about TRON? I vote for Tron Best pin ever!

#99 9 years ago

ZIN

Manbearpig

Pinside member

Harrisburg, PA

13y 73,350 1,186 11 61

How about a poll???

#100 9 years ago

SAM

smassa

Pinside member