(Topic ID: 269115)

Slick Chick Start / End Issues

By Nikrox2

8 days ago

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  • 18 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 hours ago by fredsmythson
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#1 8 days ago

I'm playing her by manually rotating the score motor to get it to start. Most of what I've found by searching here on Pinside is about the Score Motor continuously running.

My issue is the opposite :

Game – 1963 Slick Chick

I usually get the games I find all working, then clean them up. In this case, it was so filthy, I had to clean it up first. In doing so, I’d check every now & then if things worked (switches, lights, etc) - starting the game by rotating the score motor manually , and mostly got everything working as I went. She’s cleaned up and I got a new backglass. Can play the five balls and all's well.

Still have other problems tho -
When I hit the start button (with credits shown) the Hold relay pulls in and PF and Backbox lights all come on, and the SB (Start ) relay pulls in, but nothing after that, no score motor turning, nuttin

I can then manually turn the Score Motor 2 to 4 times (varies)– at 90 deg each, and this gets it to start a game. (All plays well after that)

I do notice this game has 5 balls and there are two trough switches – one for the 4th ball and one for the 5th ball. I thought to show game over when both are closed?) But after all balls are played, I can still hit the pop’s, slings, etc and it adds points - but if I hit a target or lane roll over switch – it then makes the score motor turn 90 deg, and it then goes to game over. (Not sure how during normal play with the glass on - after that last ball is played, how it would then be able to actually end a game with no balls to hit the targets– so thinking these issues are tied somehow?)

To get it to “game over” – the Match Relay activates (once both of these 4th & 5th ball switches are closed) and Game over Relay activates once the score motor turns - only after hitting a target or lane switch.

I can then hit the start button again, but see only the SB relay activate – like that relay should be telling the score motor to rotate one full 360 deg turn, but somethings not telling it to…ugh. I do notice by manually starting the game - the ball release coil stays fired / activated until a point is scored - then it releases. If that helps?

I've checked the wires, connections, switches on those relays noted above, and cleaned the steppers (credit, 0-9, bonus), can't find the problem

So it's not starting or really ending correctly, thinking it may be the same issue?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This is one is almost there !

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#2 8 days ago

Do you have a schematic for the machine? When the start relay is activated, it will close a start relay switch that should send power directly to the score motor. If you've made sure all of the switches on the start relay are clean and adjusted properly, then you would have to check for voltage on the start relay switch that sends power to the score motor.

#3 8 days ago

As fredsmythson suggests a switch on the SB relay (in the red box) should cause the Score Motor to run.
Slick Chick XB relay (resized).jpg
At the end of the game the ball trough switches fire the O/Match relay which should also start the Score Motor which should eventually fire the XB/Game Over trip relay which will cut power to most of the game.


#4 8 days ago

The ball release coil is operating correctly - it stays powered on until you score a point, then it drops and keeps the balls in the visible collection trough. That's how a lot of those early games allowed you a "do-over" first ball if you didn't score anything...pretty clever!

I don't know that the problem I had is exactly the same as yours, but there are similarities. I would check to see what position the score motor stops in when it misbehaves. The motor should come to rest in a "home" position in which the switch on motor 1C will be open (see Mark's schematic). In my case, the motor was over-rotating just slightly - enough that a switch that needed to be in one state for the motor to start was in the other state when it actually came to rest. I would rotate it by hand to get it going. I fixed it by bending the metal leaf a bit on the motor brake position (3 1/2) and increasing the drag on the motor so that it didn't over-rotate past the home position. Just something to check.

#5 8 days ago

Thanks all Yes, I checked and my Bowling Queen does the same thing as far as ball release after first point, so that's good.

I've re-checked both "O" and "SB" again, all look to be open/closed when they should be, but neither are causing the score motor to rotate as needed.

I've also looked at the score motor and 1C is open. (If I close it, it rotates as it should)

I've copied the schematics from earlier posts, I'll re-attach. I get only so far with these, even though this seems to be a fairly simple design (only as compared to others I've worked on, still learning of course).

Is there some other obscure switch that tie these two (like one of the score reel switches or other) and it is not allowing the signals to get thru? (Just weird both of the above relays are activating correctly, but then the score motor does not rotate as needed to complete either's cycle.)

Area / Index 10G - of the schematics - that's where I get fuzzy.

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#6 7 days ago

You can manually close the SB relay switch with the blue/black wire and red/white wire. This will start the score motor to move. If it doesn't then the switch is dirty or there's no power getting to the switch. Refer to markg 's posting of the score motor circuit.

When you press the start/credit button with one or more credits, power will be sent to the SB coil. The SB relay will then energize and close the SB relay switch with the blue/black wire and red/white wire. Is there voltage at the SB relay switch with the red/white wire?

#7 6 days ago

The SB relay does pull in (activates) when I hit the replay / start button. So it’s getting power (incoming?) And all lights come on. Just no score motor rotation.

So - to check for voltage (output?) - do I check with it closed or open? Or both? Do I put a lead on either of the switch blades for the wires noted above ? (Sorry still somewhat a newbie here)

#8 6 days ago

SB is the 2nd from the top. I don’t see those colored wires?? Which switch would it be?

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#9 6 days ago

Look carefully at the schematic. You're looking for a make/break (three switch leaves) switch on the SB relay with a red-white wire on the middle leaf, slate-black wire on one outer leaf and an unspecified jumper to a switch on the TB relay on the other outer leaf. It's hard to tell from your photo but I suspect it's the one in the red box:
Slick Chick SB switch (resized).jpg
Keep in mind that the short parallel wires running between all the solder tabs are just jumper wires and don't reflect the wire color in the schematic. Trace the jumper wire back to a colored wire to figure out what wire it is in the schematic.

#10 6 days ago

From the first photo, it looks like there is a red/white wire at the second switch stack. Correction for the other wire color on the switch:

SB relay switch - red/white wire and slate/black wire

The wire colors might be faded, but there are red/white and slate/black wires at the second switch stack.

If you're manually resetting the game, we know there is power at the red/white wire. Is power getting from the switch blade with the red/white wire to the switch blade with the slate black wire? Manually trip the SB relay to see if power will go through the two switch blades and travel to the score motor.

You can loosen the wing nuts on both sides of the relay bank, and then flip up the whole relay bank to get a better view of the SB relay switches. This way you can manually close the one SB relay switch with the red/white wire and slate/black wire. Make sure to clean the switch contacts on this switch.

Also, look for loose wires and broken solder joints at the SB relay switch stacks.

You would want to check for voltage at the slate/black wire when the relay is tripped, and the SB switch in question is closed.

#11 2 days ago

I can flip the bank over and see that all switches are closing correctly, and I cleaned each one as well. On the SB relay I'm showing 28v. whether it's open or closed (only could check the top two blades tho as I couldn't check the third blade). I also checked the O relay - and showing 14v when open (not pulled in) and 0 when pulled in or activated (when both of the trough switches are held down, this relay pulls in).

So both relays are pulling in (SB when I hit the replay button) and (O when both 4th & 5th trough switches are closed) - but no rotation of the score motor.

"HowardR" has helped me on other games here by jumpering wires to find the issue, but I don't know how/where to start trying to jumper either of these to get them to work. For instance, I can take a jumper and touch the score motor "actual motor" tab on one end and touch one of the tabs one of the tabs on either of these - and I can get the score motor to turn - but it stays on constant, not stopping.

So I guess it's telling me the power is there...just something is not allowing the signals to get thru???

#12 1 day ago

Looking at the SB switch with slate/black wire and red/white wire, you can use a jumper wire on the following:

* Connect jumper wire to red/white wire at the SB switch and the other side of the jumper wire to the score motor (actual motor) with the slate/black wire.

* Close SB switch with red/white wire and slate/black wire. Connect jumper wire to slate/black wire at the SB switch and the other side of the jumper wire to the score motor (actual motor) with the slate/black wire.

Both of these jumper locations should get the score motor to run.

If you jumper from slate/black wire (SB) wire to slate/black wire (score motor), and the score motor does not run, then there is a break in the circuit involving that slate/black wire, or there is an issue with the SB switch where power is not moving between the contacts on the two switch blades.

#13 1 day ago

Ahh, when I tried earlier, I was attaching from either of those points to the colored wire tab on the score motor (actual motor). Thus continuously running. Let me try attaching to the other tab when I get home.

I was also getting the score motor to turn when I jumpered from the "O" relay, but again I was going to the colored tab and getting continuous rotation. Maybe this will also work with that one? I'll try and report back. (Sooner this time)

#14 1 day ago

Ok here’s an update on this one - weird.

I tried jumpering to the black tab on the score motor (actual motor) and got nothing - but going back to the color wire tab made it run continuous.

So I then jumpered from the O relay again - this time while the relay bank was lifted up - and sure enough it rotated once and stopped. Game ended as it’s supposed to. And I hit the start button and the game started. Both issues fixed.

But then I clamped the relay bank down and I get nothing again. So while ever so lightly re- adjusted the relay bank - not all the way down but enough for the large coil to still reset - and it’s all working.

Why would one jumper on the O relay fix both issues. And why does it not work when the relay bank is fully set? A short somewhere or grounding taking place?

And finding that - May fix the issue of needing the jumper in the first place?

Happy to play a full game from start to finish tho! So progress was made!

#15 1 day ago

Photos of the jumper may help?

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#16 1 day ago

To confirm, you're using the jumper wire on the slate/black wire on the score motor (actual motor) and on the slate/black wire of the O relay switch?

What happens when you use the jumper wire between the slate/black wire of the O relay switch and on the slate/black wire on the SB relay switch?

When you manually close the Z relay switch with the slate black wire, does the score motor run?

#17 21 hours ago

On the SB relay, I tried from the slate black to the slate black and it wouldn't rotate. If I jumper any of the colored wires to the colored tab on the score motor, it rotates continuously.

On the O relay, I'm jumpering from what looks to be the same color wires - looks to be white with black , but could have shades of green in there...my eyes aren't the best..lol But it looks like the same colored wire as the one I'm jumpering to on the score motor.

And a re-wording here - when the relay bank (with the SB relay) is locked down, it rotates continuously. (Not what I typed above), when I raise it slightly, it then only rotates as needed to either ends or start a game. I do notice, that sometimes it's clicking off several credits instead of just one when I hit start...maybe a clue?

#18 21 hours ago

I'm not sure what points in the circuit you're using the jumper wire...

What happens when you use the jumper wire between the slate/black wire of the O relay switch and on the slate/black wire on the SB relay switch? That is, what happens when you first connect the jumper wire, or what happens when you try to start a game with the jumper wire installed?

When you manually close the Z relay switch with the slate black wire, does the score motor run?

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