Addams Family, The
Bally, 1992Topic says it all. Started getting slam tilt and game reboots on my Addams family today. Happens only when both flipper buttons activated. Does not slam with only right or left flippers activation. I checked and getting 4.98 volts at 5v power board test point in attract mode. All test LEDs are as they should be on cpu and power driver boards. Switch level test not showing anything strange. Any thoughts and ideas on what to check next?
One quick fix/try is reseat all your power connectors at the power supply and mpu. The double flips is causing a voltage drop that's enough to reset the mpu. Sometimes the connectors are marginal enough to have enough resistance causing voltage drop due to oxidatuon. Reseating them a couple times can remove oxidation on the pins.
Also is the game reporting a slam tilt or is the game resetting? If resetting could also be a failing bridge rectifier or capacitor. If you go into switch test mode and press the flipper buttons without the coils firing do you get the same behavior? If so could be a switch matrix issue. If not most likely a power voltage drop issue.
Sometimes this same fault happens with my CftBL.... Taking the connectors off and puting them back again seems to solve that issue for awhile....
unplugged and replugged connectors and ribbons cables on both ends (CPU and Power Board). No effect. Still slam tilting. Ran Switch levels and hit both flippers at same time. Switch test works fine when each flipper button is activated individualy but it goes bonkersand gets confused when both flippers pressed at same time. All other switches are registering and working fine during gameplay and during switch test. It seems more like a switch matrix issue on CPU board.
Slam tilts don't reset the game, they just end the game in progress. In switch test mode, though, a slam tilt is a closing of a switch just like any other.
What happens in switch test. If you see the slam tilt switch closing, then there's a switch problem.
If the game resets, then your issue has nothing to do with 'slam tilt', and it's just a typical WPC reset problem.
I'm leaning toward the latter.
Quoted from mot:Slam tilts don't reset the game, they just end the game in progress. In switch test mode, though, a slam tilt is a closing of a switch just like any other.
What happens in switch test. If you see the slam tilt switch closing, then there's a switch problem.
If the game resets, then your issue has nothing to do with 'slam tilt', and it's just a typical WPC reset problem.
I'm leaning toward the latter.
Two posts up he indicates that switches go crazy in switch test mode when both flippers pressed...so it's not a reset problem because flipper coils aren't firing in switch test mode. At least I don't think the coils fire...OP can you confirm that flipper coils were not firing during your test?
Not sure it's a board problem either because it only occurs when BOTH flipper buttons are pressed. So, I'd be looking at the rectangle formed by the two flipper buttons, the slam tilt and a fourth switch. Check and test the diodes on those four switches.
Quoted from robertmee:So, I'd be looking at the rectangle formed by the two flipper buttons, the slam tilt and a fourth switch.
Flippers are dedicated switches, no diodes. Not part of the switch matrix.
He has some wiring issues ? short ? something weird going on for dedicated switches to be firing matrixed switches.
LTG : )™
Quoted from robertmee:Not sure it's a board problem either because it only occurs when BOTH flipper buttons are pressed. So, I'd be looking at the rectangle formed by the two flipper buttons, the slam tilt and a fourth switch. Check and test the diodes on those four switches.
Only problem is the flipper button switches aren't on the switch matrix.
I'd suggest disconnecting the switch rows and columns (J206, J208) to see if the matrix still goes crazy when the flippers trigger.
Quoted from mot:Only problem is the flipper button switches aren't on the switch matrix.
I'd suggest disconnecting the switch rows and columns (J206, J208) to see if the matrix still goes crazy when the flippers trigger.
Ah, you're right....I was thinking the lane change switches would be part of the matrix as is often the case...Didn't have the schematics handy when I posted, so apologies for that confusion.
Might trying removing J202 as a test to as that's where the flipper signals to the MPU come from.
Maybe 12Vreg is at critical level and with both flipperbuttons pressed, due to 12V consumption it comes below certain level and triggers random switches.
check 12V at J210 6,7 with and without buttons pressed.
Quoted from fast_in_muskoka:this might help .
It will become worse if the 12V is the cause of this
When I turn game on now, Getting message Slam tilt Switch is stuck closed. Slam tilt switches (cabinet and coin door) are not stuck closed. game will not boot up. LED 3 stays lit on the power driver board.
Can you take a picture of your MPU board and include the wiring connectors at the bottom. Starting to suspect alkaline damage to the IC that controls the cabinet switches.
Update/Bump: I used my Pinitech 64 switch matrix tester board to see if I was getting multiple switch activations in Switch edges test. The Pinitech tester board allows you to isolate the Playfield from the CPU so you can isolate if switch problems are Playfield or CPU related. I disconnected connectors J207 and J209 from the CPU and connected my 64 switch matrix harness connectors to the the J207 and J209 header pins on the CPU leaving J205 connected so that the diagnostic test buttons on the coin door would still work. I entered switch edges test and activated switches individually. Results were that both Row 1 and Row 2 switches activated at the same time. For example, when I depressed "slam tilt" at Column 2, Row 1, "coin door close" also activated at Column 2, Row 2. Same happened on every switch in Rows 1 and 2 for Columns 2-8, i.e., "left sling" and "right sling" activated togehter. All the other switches on the game registered correctly for the remaining rows. According to Pinwiki, I should never see two switch activations in switch edges and concluding that there is a problem with the switch matrix circuitry on the CPU. Where should I go from here to resolve the slam tilt switch stuck closed problem? How do I determine what component on the CPU has failed? I could swap in another CPU board to verifiy, but that would not help me determine what to repair/ replace on the CPU board. I also have a logic probe. thanks for any help advice. I have replaced board components in the past including installing sockets and ICs (not on this board) and have the right desoldering equipment and chips to do the repair. There is no evidence of any broken traces or battery damage on this board. The board has no previous work, and batteries were put on remote holder years ago when I first got the game.
Remove the row and column connectors. All of the columns should have a high signal with a low pulse (check with logic probe). All of the rows should have 12 volts. That should quickly narrow down the issue.
At the bottom of the following logic probe article is a walkthrough on testing the switch matrix.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes
Quoted from terryb:Remove the row and column connectors. All of the columns should have a high signal with a low pulse (check with logic probe). All of the rows should have 12 volts. That should quickly narrow down the issue.
At the bottom of the following logic probe article is a walkthrough on testing the switch matrix.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes
Thanks Terry. I will see what I can do with the Logic probe and report back with what I find and or questions.
Quoted from Chet:think i disconnected it during test. Does it make a difference?
Yes, switch row1 and row2 are on J212 for coindoor-interface-board (cabinet switches).
For example, if a screw fell behind the coindoor-interface-board and making contact between J1-5 and J1-6, it will have effect on all switches on row 1 +2
Quoted from Chet:Zaza, I think i disconnected it during test. Does it make a difference?
You should also remove J212 in the tests I suggested above.
Although I've only seen it happen a couple of times you should also remove the ribbon cable from the cpu to the pdb. Rows 1 and 2 and column 1 are used on some games's to sense the flippers being energized. I've seen these opto-isolators short and cause havoc with the switch matrix.
Terry,
I ran the Pinitech switch matrix tester again with J212 disconnected and got the same double switch activations in Row 1 and Row 2 as above in post 18. I then disconnected the ribbon cable between the CPU and Power Driver Board, and guess what, no double switch activations in Rows 1 and 2. Every switch registered individually as it is supposed to to using the Pinitech switch tester. I unplugged the ribbon cable on both ends, inspected and re-installed and ran test again. And yes, I got the double switch activations again in Rows 1 and 2. This makes me think it is not a problem with the switch matrix or CPU? Any ideas what to test. what/where are the Opto-isolators and how to test if that is possible cause?
That's good news--it really narrows down you problem. It is a switch matrix problem since the switch matrix is used on the PDB (rows 1 and 2). Check for a short across U7 and U8 (pins 4 and 5). This would cause the exact same problems as a shorted diode on the playfield.
See image below.
The first time I came across this issue was also on a TAF. That's actually what made it finally click and think to mention it.
Quoted from terryb:of course not up to zaza's standards
lol. I know! How does zaza do it!?
Quoted from terryb:(of course not up to zaza's standards)
your picture is just perfect,I'm quite sure the addams family doesn't use the optocouplers U7 and U8. Check if J109 is not used.
If not in use, you could cut pin 5 of both ic's away,
Quoted from zaza:....but there was a picture over here you could use :
Now you're just rubbing it in zaza.
None of the pins on J211 or J113 are bent or touching. I ran a little experiment. With the ribbon cable removed From game, I first checked for continuity from u7 and u8 to pins 1, 3 and 5 of J113. I next checked continuity from pins 1,3, 5 of J211 to the appropriate pins on the switch matrix connectors at J207 and J209. Continuity tested ok for all the traces On both the power board and CPU board. I re-installed the ribbon cable between both boards and checked for continuity from u7 and u8 to the pins on j207 and j209 using zaza's drawing. I did not get continuity on any of the pins. I put a different ribbon cable on from another game, tested and still no continuity which makes me think the ribbon cable is not the issue.
Sorry, I did check for shorts between pins 4 and 5 of u7 and u8. No buzz tones on the meter between the pins on either IC.
The other possibility is that the short only shows up when the opto is activated--rare but I've see it happen. There's not much to that circuit and if the problem goes away when you pull the ribbon cable I really have to suspect the opto-isolator. If you're a good solderer I would pull them and see what happens.
Quoted from Chet:None of the pins on J211 or J113 are bent or touching.
Yep, sorry for the confusion, I should have searched deeper in memory to find a cleaner version of that picture.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/t2-flipper-works-but-not-flipper-switch#post-2001669
Did you take a continuity measurement between the two rows (pin 5 of both IC's) without the ribboncable installed ?
I still would take the small cutter and deactivate the 4N25 to see if there is any progress. It is easy to repair with some solder.
U7_-_U8__PDB_pin_5_(resized).jpg
Zaza
With ribbon cable removed, I checked for continuity between pin 5 of U7 to pin 3 of J113. Also checked continuity between Pin 5 of U8 to pin 5 of J113. Continuity checked ok. Checked and no shorts between the pins. I also checked continuity on CPU between pin 1 of J211 and pin 1 of J207, pin 3 of J211 and Pin 2 of J209 and Pin 5 of J211 and Pin 1 of J209. All checked o.k. with no indication of shorts. But when I install the ribbon cable ( i actually tested two different ribbon cables) I did not have continuity of the pins between U7 and U8 and and the corresponding Pins on J207 and J209. In other words, no through continuity between the powerboard and the cpu with the ribbon cable installed. I used a known working ribbon cable from my Getaway and still no continuity so I do not believe the problem is ribbon cable. Shouldn't I have through continuity with ribbon cable installed.
Quoted from Chet:But when I install the ribbon cable ( i actually tested two different ribbon cables) I did not have continuity of the pins between U7 and U8 and and the corresponding Pins on J207 and J209. In other words, no through continuity between the powerboard and the cpu with the ribbon cable installed
Can you perform a lamp-test (T.8) for example to be sure that the ribbon cable is connected in the correct position.
I have the suspicion that the cable is one row off.
I have no lamps, controlled or GI when I turn on the game, i.e., Playfield is completley dark. Plus, now my display has every line and column dot lit, (they all stay lit) so i cannot read display. I reseated the ribbon cable on the display but that did not help. I can use the test buttons and hear the game go thru menu, but I cannot see it because the the display being completely lit. game is still slam tilting and rebooting when the coin door is closed. I did double check and disconnected and reseated all the ribbon cables and they are connected and seated properly. Still cannot get any thru continuity from U7 and U8 pins to J207 and J209. Should I try putting in a CPU from another WPC game or could that damage it?
Quoted from zaza:I have the suspicion that the cable is one row off.
Quoted from Chet:I have no lamps, controlled or GI when I turn on the game, i.e., Playfield is completley dark.
My suspicion became stronger.
I'm talking about the short ribbon cable between CPU- and PDB-board. Check it closely that it is on correct position.
Now that display also fails, check all other ribbons as well
Yes, the CPU-PDB ribbon cable. I removed it and carefully positioned it and seated it. None of the pins are bent or miss-aligned. I even tried a different ribbon cable from another game and same issue. I also removed and reseated the the J202 and J201 ribbon cables and double checked those also. Thanks,
Well, something is wrong here. There is no continuity between CPU and PDB via ribbon for the switches. Also no communication to lampmatrix. So either the ribbon cable is on wrong position, or ribbon cable is defect.
Quoted from zaza:Well, something is wrong here. There is no continuity between CPU and PDB via ribbon for the switches. Also no communication to lampmatrix. So either the ribbon cable is on wrong position, or ribbon cable is defect.
Or you have a cold or cracked solder joint on the ribbon connector headers...have you tried reflowing the connectors on both boards?
That was going to be my next step after trying yet a third different known working ribbon cable. I know I have continuity on the boards to the header pins on the CPU and the PDB ribbon cable, so I am thinking the same that I might have cold or cracked joints such that when the ribbon cable is attached, it stresses the joint enough to cause an open. It means labeling connectors and pulling the Power driver board out of the game, but in the absence of any other options....
Quoted from Chet:J109 on my game is used. Does that mean u7 and u8 are used?
sorry, I should have been more specific. U7 and U8 are "used" if J109-3 and J109-4 are connected.
But since The Addams Family is Fliptronic, I think J109 is only used at pin 5+7 for playfield magnets power supply. (I have to check that by manual)
In that case U7 and U8 can be removed without replacing ( or just cut pin 5 ..... ^^^ )
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