(Topic ID: 219916)

Skylab, my first pin with reels!

By Pintor

5 years ago


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  • 34 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pintor
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#9 5 years ago

Hi Pintor
welcome to the world of EM-Pins. 99% we can see in EM-Pins --- I wonder how people can repair SS-Pins ...

Two-prong 110VAC cord or three-prong cord ? I would like to discuss when Your pin is running. Imortant on any EM-Pin: Have the 110VAC main power cord unplugged when You just look-in / manually checking actuation on relays / steppers - only plug-in when You want to play - when You want to do a test and need electricity. Never touch solder-lugs / bare end of wires - wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stich when You manually want to activate an relay.

Lets practice a bit - in post-1, second JPG: I see the Replay-Counter - have the main power cord unplugged --- fumble on the two coils - see how one side (coil and plunger) does step down - and the other does step down. Please take out some strain off the the unit - do manually step the Replay-Counter down to about 6 to 9 Replays.

See my JPG - I believe this works: You plug-in the main power cord, toggle-on the main power switch - You then press the left Flipper-Button-Switch (my blue '1') so the Lock-Relay (blue 2) actuates - and it stays pulling because the relay pulling closes its so-called "Self-Hold-Switch blue 2a" - the relay stays pulling (((until You bang with Your fist upwards on a certain place on the bottom plywood - You bang upwards so "blue 2b" opens --- please lets forget about this for the moment))) - the relay stays pulling until You toggle-off the main power switch.

You have Crewdits on the Replay-Counter - You press the Replay-Button (blue 3) and the Coin-Relay (blue 4) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Coin-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 4a and blue question mark".
The pulling-in coin-Relay closes "blue 5" switch - the Reset-Relay (blue 6) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Reset-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 6a 6b 6c 6d".
The pulling-in Reset-Relay closes its switch "blue7" and this should make the Score-Motor to run --- can You make it in Your pin to this "Score-Motor starts to run" ?

IF (if, if) You want to dig into "reading schematics": xsvtoys made an excellent "walkthrough" through his Bally Bon Voyage: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-schematic-fully-described-from-beginning-to-end-bally-bon-voyage --- Bally and Williams have the same logic --- Gottlieb is different in stepping through the players / balls. ONE thing: The Bon Voyage is an TRUE ONE-Player-ADD-A-BALL-Pin --- stepping the ball in an ADD-A-BALL-Pin is a bit different compared with ONE-Player-REPLAY-Pin(s) --- BUT I see in the Backglass of Your pin: Balls to play - same text as in Add-A-Ball-Pins. Of course: Add-A-Ball-Pins do not reward Replays - but when You read xsvtoys document: You will know A LOT about pinball-machines. Greetings Rolf

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#12 5 years ago

Hi Pintor
when we are logged-in and visit the EM-Tech-Section: The EM-Tech-Stickies (on top) are hidden - we can "click" on and there are three stickies --- I actually would like to see xsvtoys 's guide also as a stickie --- he has made an great document.

Here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/ to the EM-Games: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair --- good stuff to read.
Here http://www.pinrepair.com/ to "1930s to 1978 EM": http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm --- good stuff to read.
This (EM-Stickie): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic is good stuff. SteveFury starts with "general" and then he gets more and more into GOTTLIEB-Pins specific stuff. Williams and Bally have about the same logic (main difference is "Williams use 24VAC - Bally uses 48VAC") - they have +/- direct connection "one side of the coils have (+/-) direct connection to POWER-HOT" --- Gottlieb uses 24VAC and has "one side of the coils have (+/-) direct connection to Common- / Return- / Neutral-Side on the transformer". (Particularly 4-Player) Gottlieb pins do the stepping "Ball / Player" completely other than the Williams / Bally pins.

DC-Current, AC-Current --- please read https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-puzzle-why-did-williams-do-this-and-should-we-fix-it#post-4456765 and https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-puzzle-why-did-williams-do-this-and-should-we-fix-it#post-4456845 --- I like to think of "water flowing" when I think of electricity ---
DC-Current like water coming down from a reservoir - the pressure (water) I think of Volts (electricity) --- the mass / quantum / volume of the water coming down I think of Amperes (electricity).
AC-Current when I press water out of my mouth into an horizontal tube (as positive Volts) --- when I suck water out of the horizontal tube into my mouth (negative Volts) --- I "press - stop - suck - stop" and I do it again and again - rhythmically - 60 times in one second - so this is like 60 Hertz (electricity). The fuse always is mounted where the Pressure is (at the reservoir / at my mouth).

EM-Pins could be constructed to run on DC-Current - it was cheaper to simply use AC-Current. For us to understand an schematics: (((We know it is AC-Current))) We locate the fuse drawn near the transformer and we say "THERE (at the fuse) is the POWER-Side of DC-Current coming like "water coming out of the reservoir on the mointain" - wires - coils - wires / switches / wires - the flowing of electricity ends on the "Return-Side of the transformer".

Two-prong cords or three-prong chords (?) --- there are people who say "I want everything original - my pin came with a two-prong cord - so I let it as is". To add more safety / security: A three-prong cord is better. Look at the (ipdb) schematics to Your pin:
A wire "BLACK PL. (plastic insulation)" comes into the pin and is connected to the transformer - I call this "Return- / Common- / Neutral-Side".
A wire "YELLOW PL." comes into the pin to "110VAC 10 Amp. Fuse" - then wire "RED PL." runs to main toggle switch - then wire "PURPLE PL." runs to the transformer, I call "Power- / Hot- / Phasis-Side". The problem with an two-prong cord is: We can plug-in "this way" or "turned around / other". In one way the House-Outlet-POWER-HOT is connected (through fuse / toggle-switch) to Transformer-HOT. And the other way plugged-in the House-Outlet-POWER-HOT is connected (through fuse / toggle-switch) to Transformer- Return- / Common- / Neutral. All pins run "one way plugged-in" and also run "other way plugged-in" and when a short is made: The fuse will blow "plugged-in one way / plugged-in other way" --- I just would like / want "FUSE secures POWER- / HOT-Side so I prefer three-prong cords - there is only one way to plug-in. See the first JPG: In my living room I have a Toggle-Switch to turn on the lights (top of the JPG) - below is an House-Outlet - three-prong. In Switzerland we have 220VAC. "My A" is just a mounting screw, "my B" is "220VAC-POWER-HOT", "my C" is "connection to earth / ground / safety-connection", "my D" is "220VAC Return- / Common- / Neutral-Side". ((("My T" shows a little testing-goodie - a screwdriver with an built-in lamp - I plug in the tip of the screwdriver into "my B" - then I put my thumb onto the end of the screwdriver AND the built-in lamp lights up (very dim))))
Pins in Switzerland have transformers for our 220VAC - I can mount an new three-prong cord so "my B" is connected to --- (in the pin) fuse / toggle-switch / transformer-HOT and "my D" is connected (in the pin) to Transformer- Return- / Common- / Neutral.
And the Safety-connection ("my C") - see the second JPG - only look at "letter E" --- see an mounting screw on the transformer has a wire connected - THIS is for "connection to earth / ground / safety-connection".
I have seen pictures where the Legs and the Siderails and the Lockbar and the Coin-Door have wires running to here (second JPG, "My letter 'E' ").
When You can determine which side on Your House-Outlets are "POWER / HOT": You can mount such an three-prong wiring.

This post is long enough - I end here, more to come in another post. Greetings Rolf

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#13 5 years ago

Hi Pintor
this post is not about Your Skylab - it is about "older pins and the danger in these pins". See the schematics to Your pin - the only stuff operated by 110VAC is the Reset-Coil of the huge bank of relays. Older pins have a lot of stuff operated by 110VAC and so many switches / wires in these pins have 110VAC. When we have children and have such an old pin: We must close and lock the Coin-Door of the pin (and the Back-Box) and take away the key(s). See the JPG - Williams A-Go-Go - some relays are operated by 110VAC - one of the switches on the left flipper button handles 110VAC (!!!) - the Replay-Button-Switch handles 110VAC - the Coin-Chute-Switches handle 110VAC - many switches on many relays handle 110VAC. On A-Go-Go (and all the other old pins): Close and lock the Coin-Door and the Back-Box and take away the Keys ...

Your pin has an 110VAC main toggle-switch --- use it to toggle-on and toggle-off. Your pin has a "I call it 'a left over from the old times': 'Kick-off-Switch' " - we see this switch in the schematics at D-3/D-4. See here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64764 - above the "white rectangle in the picture": A milky-white round nylon plate with three mounting screws. In the center of this plate - below, standing upright, resting on the plywood below: A bolt. When we bang with the fist upwards on this place - upwards onto the plywood: The bolt jumps up and opens a switch - this cuts the Self-Hold-Circuitry of the Lock-Relay - and the Lights on the Playfield / Back-Box turn off (doe to switches opening on the quit-pulling Lock-Relay). But Your Skylab is not really / completely turned-off when You do this fist-procedure --- please: Always use the main power toggle-switch.

A "problem" with "110VAC-POWER-HOT comes into the pin - then:
AAA: to Fuse then Toggle-Switch then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
BBB: to Toggle-Switch then to Fuse then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
Your Skylab is an AAA-type of pin - (see it in the schematics) - I feel O.K. when AAA-type pins have the 110VAC-fuse mounted alone - mounted near the transformer - this https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2237&picno=10121&zoom=1 shows such an "110VAC-Fuse mounted near the transformer".
But when a AAA-type pin like https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2254&picno=45802&zoom=1 has a "stack of fuses" - and the 110VAC fuse is in this stack: My question is (and I doubt that all people know it): Do people always exercise extreme caution when they fumble on the fuses --- in such (AAA-type pin and a fuse-stack): The 110VAC-Fuse has POWER-HOT connected when the pin is plugged-in - no matter if we have toggle-on or toggled-off the main power-switch - as AAA-type is "First is fuse - then comes the toggle-switch".

The written above is why I like more the BBB-type of wiring - main toggle-switch encapsulated - with an paper-tag telling: "Switch has connection to House-Outlet-POWER-HOT when plugged-in".
The best way to work on pins is: "We always unplug the main power cord when we simply look into the pin / work on the pin not needing electricity." Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Write about problems in Your pin.

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#17 5 years ago

Hi Sean, Arcane, poppapin
thanks for the flowers. Many have the knowledge - some regularly help here in pinside - I am one of them.
Grizlyrig in post-2 posted the link to an SteveFury video - excellent for (rather) late Williams 4-Player-Pins (Start-up Sequence).
Here http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/emTips.html are some tips - some are good - some are "so - so". A good help for starting Gottlieb-Pins are the first couple of tips.
I have read in pinside about "Henk de Jager 's book" - it must be good - pbr sells it - see http://www.pbresource.com/royalf.html - scroll down about 80% - down to "Repair Guide - Pinball Machine Maintenance".

A true story: Some years ago I bought me an "new" Gottlieb pin - three-prong cord, main power fuse alone, near the transformer, encapsulated main power switch. I had the cord plugged-in, had the main power switch toggled-off, summer, hot, sweaty --- I was wearing a T-Shirt, naked arms, Playfield raised, I moved around in the pin --- boiiiiiiing, I flew through the room, banged my head on the raised playfield --- what was happening (?): (Use whatever words) Preowner has mounted an new three-prong cord - BUT WRONG - HOT and COMMON excanged (!!!) --- the main power switch (toggled-off) did cut the Return / Common wire and "House-Outlet-HOT was wired to 'Transformer lug' - and accidentally with my naked, sweaty elbow I have touched this transformer lug ...
Since then I do what I have and will suggest: UNPLUG the main power cord when You do not need electricity. Greetings Rolf

#19 5 years ago

Hi Yves
No - (lucky me) the playfield stayed raised - but I had a wound on my head - on my "inner eye I have seen sparks / lightning" (I am german speaking I do not know the term in proper english) --- and by the way: In Switzerland the main power runs on 220VAC. Greetings Rolf

#24 5 years ago

Hi Sean
"Chimes" - I would not buy the Chicago Coin Chimes. I live in Switzerland - do not know how often chimes are offered in EBay-USA --- how about trying here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-em-seeking-parts-thread ?

Many operators in Europe did not like chimes - they ordered the pins without chimes. So in Europe they are seldom offered means high priced --- I bought several chimes for 90 to 120 US-Dollars (I paid Swiss-Francs). Because they are rare: An american living in Germany started to make new chimes - see: https://www.chimeunit.com/chime-units --- but the price / shipment (?) ...

"Restoring a pin" - I never did. Your pictures are "close-up" - how does it looks when You are playing ? I would use a mild detergent (used in the kitchen / house) - then some wax - PLEASE: Search in the forum or start a new topic about "wax" (((I was using wax for cars))).
I could buy me the pins I played in my youth (some 40 years ago) --- I don't mind when they show signs of age - I also do --- maybe a bit of cosmetics / touch-ups. When You know "will keep the Skylab forever": Play it for half a year - then start thinking about restoring.
The title of this topic is "My first pin" --- may want to start a new topic "How to touch-up my Skylab ?".

Back to "Safety - grounding" - I am german speaking - electricity is dangerous - I fear to use wrong words --- I struggle with the meaning of the word "grounding" so I write in my posts "earthening - Safety-Connection to the earth" --- see the JPGs - the Ball-Count-Unit on my "Shangri La" --- see the green dots - wire-yellow is attached to the frame / housing of the unit - EVERYTHING metal of the unit / housing is part of "wire-yellow". See here https://www.ipdb.org/files/2648/Williams_1974_Triple_Action_Instruction_Manual.pdf on page-13 (ori-11) - in the drawing the text "grounded" (grounded wipers) - I am irritated - why the word "grounded" ? Wire-yellow in the Williams-Pins is "Return-Side of the transformer on the 24VAC-Side as well as 6VAC-Side - 'Common' " --- I very much would like to read in the manuals the text "connected to wire-yellow / common on secondary side of transformer".
(((I believe when we hook-on the 110VAC "hot and common exchanged": Then the 24VAC-Side also has it exchanged - means: With "exchanged" the wipers AND the housing of the Ball-Count-Unit are connected to 24VAC-HOT/POWER - we better do not touch ...))) Greetings Rolf

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