(Topic ID: 219916)

Skylab, my first pin with reels!


By Pintor

2 years ago



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  • 34 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Pintor
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Hello Pinsiders, I took a chance on a Skylab to add a pin with reels to my collection. Also I live in a rural area so it’s rare to find someone a few miles down the road selling a pin. The person I bought it from owned it for 20+ years and never really got it running so it stayed in the garage the whole time. For its age it doesn’t show too much wear.

It turns on but I can’t get it to start a game. I hear a few clicks in the back box and under the play field. When I trigger the coin mech nothing happens so I don’t think a credit is being added.

I added some pics. I’m going to give it a thorough inspection. I’ll be replacing all the lights with LEDs, new rubbers, and clean/wax the playfield.

Any tips would be appreciated I’ve only ever worked on solid state pins so this will be a learning experience for me.

Cheers!

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#2 2 years ago

It shows 31 credits on the reel , you may want to watch a youtube video to get the rough idea of how an em starts up. Here is a video that Steve Fury did and it is really helpful.
-Mike

#3 2 years ago

With EMs that have been sitting this long you really have to go through every stepper to make sure they’re all working smoothly and making good contact. Look for over fusing and hack jobs and take care of those issues. I don’t even plug them in until I’ve thoroughly gone through them. Clay’s guides are the best but Pin wiki’s em section is also strong.

And LEDs in EMs..well...might I suggest starting with good old 47s to keep the vintage look and feel? Personal preference, of course.

#4 2 years ago

Fully agree with MrArt2U:

- Go through every switch first.
- Clean the motor
- Get it running
- Enjoy the vintage look.
- Replace old bulbs with fresh #47.
- Keep your LED money for another machine.

Yves

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

It shows 31 credits on the reel , you may want to watch a youtube video to get the rough idea of how an em starts up. Here is a video that Steve Fury did and it is really helpful.
-Mike

Thanks Mike I watched the video and it was very helpful!

Quoted from MrArt2u:

With EMs that have been sitting this long you really have to go through every stepper to make sure they’re all working smoothly and making good contact. Look for over fusing and hack jobs and take care of those issues. I don’t even plug them in until I’ve thoroughly gone through them. Clay’s guides are the best but Pin wiki’s em section is also strong.
And LEDs in EMs..well...might I suggest starting with good old 47s to keep the vintage look and feel? Personal preference, of course.

Quoted from Arcane:

Fully agree with MrArt2U:
- Go through every switch first.
- Clean the motor
- Get it running
- Enjoy the vintage look.
- Replace old bulbs with fresh #47.
- Keep your LED money for another machine.
Yves

Thanks MrArt and Yves. After watching the video I have a better understanding of the switches. I’ll start at the credit switch and go from there (I have a feeling the fact it’s not resetting is part of the problem).

How do you guys feel about the 44 bulbs? I was reading about 44s vs 47s and it seems the 44s are brighter but hotter due to the higher current draw.

Lastly, I noticed the plug in doesn’t have a ground. Is that common for this era? Any guides on installing a ground wire (if recommended)?

Thanks!

Sean

#6 2 years ago

44 bulbs throw off too much heat that will damage the backglass and warp plastics over time, you are better to switch over to the 47 bulb or (flamesuit on) led bulbs.
-Mike

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Arcane:

Fully agree with MrArt2U:
- Go through every switch first.
- Clean the motor
- Get it running
- Enjoy the vintage look.
- Replace old bulbs with fresh #47.
- Keep your LED money for another machine.
Yves

+1 LED's look like ass in EM's - use either 44 or 47 bulbs, does not matter, you are not likely going to leave this pin on for 8+ hours at a stretch like being on route.

#8 2 years ago

I switched mine over to 47’s from 44’s. To tell you the truth the new 47’s were brighter than the old burned 44’s. Its amazing what a complete swap out to fresh does for the appearance. Dont dismiss incandescent, they have the right look to them.

#9 2 years ago

Hi Pintor
welcome to the world of EM-Pins. 99% we can see in EM-Pins --- I wonder how people can repair SS-Pins ...

Two-prong 110VAC cord or three-prong cord ? I would like to discuss when Your pin is running. Imortant on any EM-Pin: Have the 110VAC main power cord unplugged when You just look-in / manually checking actuation on relays / steppers - only plug-in when You want to play - when You want to do a test and need electricity. Never touch solder-lugs / bare end of wires - wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stich when You manually want to activate an relay.

Lets practice a bit - in post-1, second JPG: I see the Replay-Counter - have the main power cord unplugged --- fumble on the two coils - see how one side (coil and plunger) does step down - and the other does step down. Please take out some strain off the the unit - do manually step the Replay-Counter down to about 6 to 9 Replays.

See my JPG - I believe this works: You plug-in the main power cord, toggle-on the main power switch - You then press the left Flipper-Button-Switch (my blue '1') so the Lock-Relay (blue 2) actuates - and it stays pulling because the relay pulling closes its so-called "Self-Hold-Switch blue 2a" - the relay stays pulling (((until You bang with Your fist upwards on a certain place on the bottom plywood - You bang upwards so "blue 2b" opens --- please lets forget about this for the moment))) - the relay stays pulling until You toggle-off the main power switch.

You have Crewdits on the Replay-Counter - You press the Replay-Button (blue 3) and the Coin-Relay (blue 4) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Coin-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 4a and blue question mark".
The pulling-in coin-Relay closes "blue 5" switch - the Reset-Relay (blue 6) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Reset-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 6a 6b 6c 6d".
The pulling-in Reset-Relay closes its switch "blue7" and this should make the Score-Motor to run --- can You make it in Your pin to this "Score-Motor starts to run" ?

IF (if, if) You want to dig into "reading schematics": xsvtoys made an excellent "walkthrough" through his Bally Bon Voyage: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-schematic-fully-described-from-beginning-to-end-bally-bon-voyage --- Bally and Williams have the same logic --- Gottlieb is different in stepping through the players / balls. ONE thing: The Bon Voyage is an TRUE ONE-Player-ADD-A-BALL-Pin --- stepping the ball in an ADD-A-BALL-Pin is a bit different compared with ONE-Player-REPLAY-Pin(s) --- BUT I see in the Backglass of Your pin: Balls to play - same text as in Add-A-Ball-Pins. Of course: Add-A-Ball-Pins do not reward Replays - but when You read xsvtoys document: You will know A LOT about pinball-machines. Greetings Rolf

0Skylab-Work-05 (resized).jpg
#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Phat_Jay:

I switched mine over to 47’s from 44’s. To tell you the truth the new 47’s were brighter than the old burned 44’s. Its amazing what a complete swap out to fresh does for the appearance. Dont dismiss incandescent, they have the right look to them.

Thanks phat-jay, I agree I’m keeping this one all original. I’m going to get some 47s and swap them in!

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Pintor
welcome to the world of EM-Pins. 99% we can see in EM-Pins --- I wonder how people can repair SS-Pins ...
Two-prong 110VAC cord or three-prong cord ? I would like to discuss when Your pin is running. Imortant on any EM-Pin: Have the 110VAC main power cord unplugged when You just look-in / manually checking actuation on relays / steppers - only plug-in when You want to play - when You want to do a test and need electricity. Never touch solder-lugs / bare end of wires - wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stich when You manually want to activate an relay.
Lets practice a bit - in post-1, second JPG: I see the Replay-Counter - have the main power cord unplugged --- fumble on the two coils - see how one side (coil and plunger) does step down - and the other does step down. Please take out some strain off the the unit - do manually step the Replay-Counter down to about 6 to 9 Replays.
See my JPG - I believe this works: You plug-in the main power cord, toggle-on the main power switch - You then press the left Flipper-Button-Switch (my blue '1') so the Lock-Relay (blue 2) actuates - and it stays pulling because the relay pulling closes its so-called "Self-Hold-Switch blue 2a" - the relay stays pulling (((until You bang with Your fist upwards on a certain place on the bottom plywood - You bang upwards so "blue 2b" opens --- please lets forget about this for the moment))) - the relay stays pulling until You toggle-off the main power switch.
You have Crewdits on the Replay-Counter - You press the Replay-Button (blue 3) and the Coin-Relay (blue 4) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Coin-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 4a and blue question mark".
The pulling-in coin-Relay closes "blue 5" switch - the Reset-Relay (blue 6) should pull-in - when it does not: Take a wooden stick - press the armature on the Reset-Relay - it should stay for a while caused by "blue 6a 6b 6c 6d".
The pulling-in Reset-Relay closes its switch "blue7" and this should make the Score-Motor to run --- can You make it in Your pin to this "Score-Motor starts to run" ?
IF (if, if) You want to dig into "reading schematics": xsvtoys made an excellent "walkthrough" through his Bally Bon Voyage: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-schematic-fully-described-from-beginning-to-end-bally-bon-voyage --- Bally and Williams have the same logic --- Gottlieb is different in stepping through the players / balls. ONE thing: The Bon Voyage is an TRUE ONE-Player-ADD-A-BALL-Pin --- stepping the ball in an ADD-A-BALL-Pin is a bit different compared with ONE-Player-REPLAY-Pin(s) --- BUT I see in the Backglass of Your pin: Balls to play - same text as in Add-A-Ball-Pins. Of course: Add-A-Ball-Pins do not reward Replays - but when You read xsvtoys document: You will know A LOT about pinball-machines. Greetings Rolf

Wow thank you Rolf for that detailed guide! I’m going to read it over several times and try this out, it’s going to take me a few days just to figure out the switches.

I have a 2 prong plug in cord, I will definitely take your advice on safety. I must admit I’m a bit concerned it doesn’t have a ground, do you ever recommend converting it to have a ground wire (is that even possible?).

Thanks and I will post back with questions as I go through this guide (I’m sure I will lol).

#12 2 years ago

Hi Pintor
when we are logged-in and visit the EM-Tech-Section: The EM-Tech-Stickies (on top) are hidden - we can "click" on and there are three stickies --- I actually would like to see xsvtoys 's guide also as a stickie --- he has made an great document.

Here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/ to the EM-Games: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair --- good stuff to read.
Here http://www.pinrepair.com/ to "1930s to 1978 EM": http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm --- good stuff to read.
This (EM-Stickie): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic is good stuff. SteveFury starts with "general" and then he gets more and more into GOTTLIEB-Pins specific stuff. Williams and Bally have about the same logic (main difference is "Williams use 24VAC - Bally uses 48VAC") - they have +/- direct connection "one side of the coils have (+/-) direct connection to POWER-HOT" --- Gottlieb uses 24VAC and has "one side of the coils have (+/-) direct connection to Common- / Return- / Neutral-Side on the transformer". (Particularly 4-Player) Gottlieb pins do the stepping "Ball / Player" completely other than the Williams / Bally pins.

DC-Current, AC-Current --- please read https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-puzzle-why-did-williams-do-this-and-should-we-fix-it#post-4456765 and https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-puzzle-why-did-williams-do-this-and-should-we-fix-it#post-4456845 --- I like to think of "water flowing" when I think of electricity ---
DC-Current like water coming down from a reservoir - the pressure (water) I think of Volts (electricity) --- the mass / quantum / volume of the water coming down I think of Amperes (electricity).
AC-Current when I press water out of my mouth into an horizontal tube (as positive Volts) --- when I suck water out of the horizontal tube into my mouth (negative Volts) --- I "press - stop - suck - stop" and I do it again and again - rhythmically - 60 times in one second - so this is like 60 Hertz (electricity). The fuse always is mounted where the Pressure is (at the reservoir / at my mouth).

EM-Pins could be constructed to run on DC-Current - it was cheaper to simply use AC-Current. For us to understand an schematics: (((We know it is AC-Current))) We locate the fuse drawn near the transformer and we say "THERE (at the fuse) is the POWER-Side of DC-Current coming like "water coming out of the reservoir on the mointain" - wires - coils - wires / switches / wires - the flowing of electricity ends on the "Return-Side of the transformer".

Two-prong cords or three-prong chords (?) --- there are people who say "I want everything original - my pin came with a two-prong cord - so I let it as is". To add more safety / security: A three-prong cord is better. Look at the (ipdb) schematics to Your pin:
A wire "BLACK PL. (plastic insulation)" comes into the pin and is connected to the transformer - I call this "Return- / Common- / Neutral-Side".
A wire "YELLOW PL." comes into the pin to "110VAC 10 Amp. Fuse" - then wire "RED PL." runs to main toggle switch - then wire "PURPLE PL." runs to the transformer, I call "Power- / Hot- / Phasis-Side". The problem with an two-prong cord is: We can plug-in "this way" or "turned around / other". In one way the House-Outlet-POWER-HOT is connected (through fuse / toggle-switch) to Transformer-HOT. And the other way plugged-in the House-Outlet-POWER-HOT is connected (through fuse / toggle-switch) to Transformer- Return- / Common- / Neutral. All pins run "one way plugged-in" and also run "other way plugged-in" and when a short is made: The fuse will blow "plugged-in one way / plugged-in other way" --- I just would like / want "FUSE secures POWER- / HOT-Side so I prefer three-prong cords - there is only one way to plug-in. See the first JPG: In my living room I have a Toggle-Switch to turn on the lights (top of the JPG) - below is an House-Outlet - three-prong. In Switzerland we have 220VAC. "My A" is just a mounting screw, "my B" is "220VAC-POWER-HOT", "my C" is "connection to earth / ground / safety-connection", "my D" is "220VAC Return- / Common- / Neutral-Side". ((("My T" shows a little testing-goodie - a screwdriver with an built-in lamp - I plug in the tip of the screwdriver into "my B" - then I put my thumb onto the end of the screwdriver AND the built-in lamp lights up (very dim))))
Pins in Switzerland have transformers for our 220VAC - I can mount an new three-prong cord so "my B" is connected to --- (in the pin) fuse / toggle-switch / transformer-HOT and "my D" is connected (in the pin) to Transformer- Return- / Common- / Neutral.
And the Safety-connection ("my C") - see the second JPG - only look at "letter E" --- see an mounting screw on the transformer has a wire connected - THIS is for "connection to earth / ground / safety-connection".
I have seen pictures where the Legs and the Siderails and the Lockbar and the Coin-Door have wires running to here (second JPG, "My letter 'E' ").
When You can determine which side on Your House-Outlets are "POWER / HOT": You can mount such an three-prong wiring.

This post is long enough - I end here, more to come in another post. Greetings Rolf

0aGo-Go-House-01 (resized).JPGaGo-Go-Work-07 (resized).jpg
#13 2 years ago

Hi Pintor
this post is not about Your Skylab - it is about "older pins and the danger in these pins". See the schematics to Your pin - the only stuff operated by 110VAC is the Reset-Coil of the huge bank of relays. Older pins have a lot of stuff operated by 110VAC and so many switches / wires in these pins have 110VAC. When we have children and have such an old pin: We must close and lock the Coin-Door of the pin (and the Back-Box) and take away the key(s). See the JPG - Williams A-Go-Go - some relays are operated by 110VAC - one of the switches on the left flipper button handles 110VAC (!!!) - the Replay-Button-Switch handles 110VAC - the Coin-Chute-Switches handle 110VAC - many switches on many relays handle 110VAC. On A-Go-Go (and all the other old pins): Close and lock the Coin-Door and the Back-Box and take away the Keys ...

Your pin has an 110VAC main toggle-switch --- use it to toggle-on and toggle-off. Your pin has a "I call it 'a left over from the old times': 'Kick-off-Switch' " - we see this switch in the schematics at D-3/D-4. See here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64764 - above the "white rectangle in the picture": A milky-white round nylon plate with three mounting screws. In the center of this plate - below, standing upright, resting on the plywood below: A bolt. When we bang with the fist upwards on this place - upwards onto the plywood: The bolt jumps up and opens a switch - this cuts the Self-Hold-Circuitry of the Lock-Relay - and the Lights on the Playfield / Back-Box turn off (doe to switches opening on the quit-pulling Lock-Relay). But Your Skylab is not really / completely turned-off when You do this fist-procedure --- please: Always use the main power toggle-switch.

A "problem" with "110VAC-POWER-HOT comes into the pin - then:
AAA: to Fuse then Toggle-Switch then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
BBB: to Toggle-Switch then to Fuse then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
Your Skylab is an AAA-type of pin - (see it in the schematics) - I feel O.K. when AAA-type pins have the 110VAC-fuse mounted alone - mounted near the transformer - this https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2237&picno=10121&zoom=1 shows such an "110VAC-Fuse mounted near the transformer".
But when a AAA-type pin like https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2254&picno=45802&zoom=1 has a "stack of fuses" - and the 110VAC fuse is in this stack: My question is (and I doubt that all people know it): Do people always exercise extreme caution when they fumble on the fuses --- in such (AAA-type pin and a fuse-stack): The 110VAC-Fuse has POWER-HOT connected when the pin is plugged-in - no matter if we have toggle-on or toggled-off the main power-switch - as AAA-type is "First is fuse - then comes the toggle-switch".

The written above is why I like more the BBB-type of wiring - main toggle-switch encapsulated - with an paper-tag telling: "Switch has connection to House-Outlet-POWER-HOT when plugged-in".
The best way to work on pins is: "We always unplug the main power cord when we simply look into the pin / work on the pin not needing electricity." Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Write about problems in Your pin.

aGo-Go-Work-01 (resized).jpg
#14 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Pintor
this post is not about Your Skylab - it is about "older pins and the danger in these pins". See the schematics to Your pin - the only stuff operated by 110VAC is the Reset-Coil of the huge bank of relays. Older pins have a lot of stuff operated by 110VAC and so many switches / wires in these pins have 110VAC. When we have children and have such an old pin: We must close and lock the Coin-Door of the pin (and the Back-Box) and take away the key(s). See the JPG - Williams A-Go-Go - some relays are operated by 110VAC - one of the switches on the left flipper button handles 110VAC (!!!) - the Replay-Button-Switch handles 110VAC - the Coin-Chute-Switches handle 110VAC - many switches on many relays handle 110VAC. On A-Go-Go (and all the other old pins): Close and lock the Coin-Door and the Back-Box and take away the Keys ...
Your pin has an 110VAC main toggle-switch --- use it to toggle-on and toggle-off. Your pin has a "I call it 'a left over from the old times': 'Kick-off-Switch' " - we see this switch in the schematics at D-3/D-4. See here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64764 - above the "white rectangle in the picture": A milky-white round nylon plate with three mounting screws. In the center of this plate - below, standing upright, resting on the plywood below: A bolt. When we bang with the fist upwards on this place - upwards onto the plywood: The bolt jumps up and opens a switch - this cuts the Self-Hold-Circuitry of the Lock-Relay - and the Lights on the Playfield / Back-Box turn off (doe to switches opening on the quit-pulling Lock-Relay). But Your Skylab is not really / completely turned-off when You do this fist-procedure --- please: Always use the main power toggle-switch.
A "problem" with "110VAC-POWER-HOT comes into the pin - then:
AAA: to Fuse then Toggle-Switch then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
BBB: to Toggle-Switch then to Fuse then to Transformer-HOT-POWER
Your Skylab is an AAA-type of pin - (see it in the schematics) - I feel O.K. when AAA-type pins have the 110VAC-fuse mounted alone - mounted near the transformer - this https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2237&picno=10121&zoom=1 shows such an "110VAC-Fuse mounted near the transformer".
But when a AAA-type pin like https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2254&picno=45802&zoom=1 has a "stack of fuses" - and the 110VAC fuse is in this stack: My question is (and I doubt that all people know it): Do people always exercise extreme caution when they fumble on the fuses --- in such (AAA-type pin and a fuse-stack): The 110VAC-Fuse has POWER-HOT connected when the pin is plugged-in - no matter if we have toggle-on or toggled-off the main power-switch - as AAA-type is "First is fuse - then comes the toggle-switch".
The written above is why I like more the BBB-type of wiring - main toggle-switch encapsulated - with an paper-tag telling: "Switch has connection to House-Outlet-POWER-HOT when plugged-in".
The best way to work on pins is: "We always unplug the main power cord when we simply look into the pin / work on the pin not needing electricity." Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Write about problems in Your pin.

Thank you Rolf for putting the time and effort into those posts! I read them both and learned a lot! I had no idea about the fuses still being hot and connected to the wall electricity when the unit is plugged in. Seriously, you probably saved me from a shock. I will definitely unplug the unit anytime I work on it.

I definitely appreciate people who want to leave a pin in its original condition, but I have 4 kids under 6 years of age so I will probability air on the side of caution and hook up a ground to the coin door, lock bar, etc like you mentioned above.

I’m going to study the guides you mentioned and reread your posts as I work on this pin. Thank you again for the time and work you put into those posts and into educating me on this pin. I love to tinker and learn about these machines

Cheers, Sean

#15 2 years ago

Rolf,

You should consider writing a book about your knowledge of Mechanical Pinballs. In my area, (more than a million people living) there is only ONE person who is capable and willing to fix mechanical pinballs. There are a few collectors, but they will not provide help or advice. That person is the only one that I know who will come to your place and work on your machine. His prices are high, but when you have no choice....

A book or an online publication would be terrific as this skill will completely disappear in a few years.

Yves

#16 2 years ago

www.pinrepair.com was and still is a lot of help to me. All the knowledgeable EM gurus like Rolf on Pinside are a great asset also!!

#17 2 years ago

Hi Sean, Arcane, poppapin
thanks for the flowers. Many have the knowledge - some regularly help here in pinside - I am one of them.
Grizlyrig in post-2 posted the link to an SteveFury video - excellent for (rather) late Williams 4-Player-Pins (Start-up Sequence).
Here http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/emTips.html are some tips - some are good - some are "so - so". A good help for starting Gottlieb-Pins are the first couple of tips.
I have read in pinside about "Henk de Jager 's book" - it must be good - pbr sells it - see http://www.pbresource.com/royalf.html - scroll down about 80% - down to "Repair Guide - Pinball Machine Maintenance".

A true story: Some years ago I bought me an "new" Gottlieb pin - three-prong cord, main power fuse alone, near the transformer, encapsulated main power switch. I had the cord plugged-in, had the main power switch toggled-off, summer, hot, sweaty --- I was wearing a T-Shirt, naked arms, Playfield raised, I moved around in the pin --- boiiiiiiing, I flew through the room, banged my head on the raised playfield --- what was happening (?): (Use whatever words) Preowner has mounted an new three-prong cord - BUT WRONG - HOT and COMMON excanged (!!!) --- the main power switch (toggled-off) did cut the Return / Common wire and "House-Outlet-HOT was wired to 'Transformer lug' - and accidentally with my naked, sweaty elbow I have touched this transformer lug ...
Since then I do what I have and will suggest: UNPLUG the main power cord when You do not need electricity. Greetings Rolf

#18 2 years ago

Ouch..... that must have been terrible. Did the playfield fall on your head, too ?

Yves

#19 2 years ago

Hi Yves
No - (lucky me) the playfield stayed raised - but I had a wound on my head - on my "inner eye I have seen sparks / lightning" (I am german speaking I do not know the term in proper english) --- and by the way: In Switzerland the main power runs on 220VAC. Greetings Rolf

#20 2 years ago

pintor glad to see another EM person here on the board. I owned a Skylab but sold it to another pinsider out of Ohio. I do see that EM for sale often. Just wanting to say hello and welcome to the sub forum of EM.

#21 2 years ago

Pintor pm sent
-Mike

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Sean, Arcane, poppapin
thanks for the flowers.

Wait, you guys got Rolf flowers? I wish I could have contributed.

#23 2 years ago

grayman_em grizlyrig rolf_martin_062
Thank you!
With the help of a friend, we inspected and started cleaning the unit yesterday. The steppers were gummed up. 2 more to be cleaned before I tackle the score reels. I also have to change out a fried coil.

I also noticed a previous owner removed the chimes! I searched all of the pinball part distributors and I can’t find any that sell a Williams specific em chime box. I did find one for Chicago coin

ebay.com link » Chicago Coin Complete Chime Unit Pinball Parts Pinball Machines

Is that an acceptable substitute?

Also the play field is peeling I’m afraid waxing it will make It worse.

I’ve read other threads about removing all the playfield parts and spraying it with some kind of protective layer. Are there any other options? I didn’t see it mentioned in the guide grizzlyrig sent (I may have missed it).

I’d appreciate any tips you have.

Thank you,

Sean

3F30F627-1E34-40D0-ADAA-35C1EF6E8E6B (resized).jpeg77E8DEEB-6744-432A-9F9D-AA5359943D8E (resized).jpeg
#24 2 years ago

Hi Sean
"Chimes" - I would not buy the Chicago Coin Chimes. I live in Switzerland - do not know how often chimes are offered in EBay-USA --- how about trying here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-em-seeking-parts-thread ?

Many operators in Europe did not like chimes - they ordered the pins without chimes. So in Europe they are seldom offered means high priced --- I bought several chimes for 90 to 120 US-Dollars (I paid Swiss-Francs). Because they are rare: An american living in Germany started to make new chimes - see: https://www.chimeunit.com/chime-units --- but the price / shipment (?) ...

"Restoring a pin" - I never did. Your pictures are "close-up" - how does it looks when You are playing ? I would use a mild detergent (used in the kitchen / house) - then some wax - PLEASE: Search in the forum or start a new topic about "wax" (((I was using wax for cars))).
I could buy me the pins I played in my youth (some 40 years ago) --- I don't mind when they show signs of age - I also do --- maybe a bit of cosmetics / touch-ups. When You know "will keep the Skylab forever": Play it for half a year - then start thinking about restoring.
The title of this topic is "My first pin" --- may want to start a new topic "How to touch-up my Skylab ?".

Back to "Safety - grounding" - I am german speaking - electricity is dangerous - I fear to use wrong words --- I struggle with the meaning of the word "grounding" so I write in my posts "earthening - Safety-Connection to the earth" --- see the JPGs - the Ball-Count-Unit on my "Shangri La" --- see the green dots - wire-yellow is attached to the frame / housing of the unit - EVERYTHING metal of the unit / housing is part of "wire-yellow". See here https://www.ipdb.org/files/2648/Williams_1974_Triple_Action_Instruction_Manual.pdf on page-13 (ori-11) - in the drawing the text "grounded" (grounded wipers) - I am irritated - why the word "grounded" ? Wire-yellow in the Williams-Pins is "Return-Side of the transformer on the 24VAC-Side as well as 6VAC-Side - 'Common' " --- I very much would like to read in the manuals the text "connected to wire-yellow / common on secondary side of transformer".
(((I believe when we hook-on the 110VAC "hot and common exchanged": Then the 24VAC-Side also has it exchanged - means: With "exchanged" the wipers AND the housing of the Ball-Count-Unit are connected to 24VAC-HOT/POWER - we better do not touch ...))) Greetings Rolf

0Shangri-La-Ball-Count-Unit-01 (resized).jpg0Shangri-La-Ball-Count-Unit-02 (resized).jpg
#25 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Sean
"Chimes" - I would not buy the Chicago Coin Chimes. I live in Switzerland - do not know how often chimes are offered in EBay-USA --- how about trying here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-em-seeking-parts-thread ?
Many operators in Europe did not like chimes - they ordered the pins without chimes. So in Europe they are seldom offered means high priced --- I bought several chimes for 90 to 120 US-Dollars (I paid Swiss-Francs). Because they are rare: An american living in Germany started to make new chimes - see: https://www.chimeunit.com/chime-units --- but the price / shipment (?) ...
"Restoring a pin" - I never did. Your pictures are "close-up" - how does it looks when You are playing ? I would use a mild detergent (used in the kitchen / house) - then some wax - PLEASE: Search in the forum or start a new topic about "wax" (((I was using wax for cars))).
I could buy me the pins I played in my youth (some 40 years ago) --- I don't mind when they show signs of age - I also do --- maybe a bit of cosmetics / touch-ups. When You know "will keep the Skylab forever": Play it for half a year - then start thinking about restoring.
The title of this topic is "My first pin" --- may want to start a new topic "How to touch-up my Skylab ?".
Back to "Safety - grounding" - I am german speaking - electricity is dangerous - I fear to use wrong words --- I struggle with the meaning of the word "grounding" so I write in my posts "earthening - Safety-Connection to the earth" --- see the JPGs - the Ball-Count-Unit on my "Shangri La" --- see the green dots - wire-yellow is attached to the frame / housing of the unit - EVERYTHING metal of the unit / housing is part of "wire-yellow". See here https://www.ipdb.org/files/2648/Williams_1974_Triple_Action_Instruction_Manual.pdf on page-13 (ori-11) - in the drawing the text "grounded" (grounded wipers) - I am irritated - why the word "grounded" ? Wire-yellow in the Williams-Pins is "Return-Side of the transformer on the 24VAC-Side as well as 6VAC-Side - 'Common' " --- I very much would like to read in the manuals the text "connected to wire-yellow / common on secondary side of transformer".
(((I believe when we hook-on the 110VAC "hot and common exchanged": Then the 24VAC-Side also has it exchanged - means: With "exchanged" the wipers AND the housing of the Ball-Count-Unit are connected to 24VAC-HOT/POWER - we better do not touch ...))) Greetings Rolf

Thanks Rolf, I’ll take a look at the wiring again, the unit already came with what appeared to be factory installed green ground wiring throughout and after the experience you shared with me, I made sure there wasn’t any conductivity between the electrical complements and the side rails, lock bar, coin door, and metal back.

I’m actually a lot like you in that I don’t mind if the pin shows it’s age. I’m not the type of person to fully restore a pin, but rather get it clean and back to playing again. I just wanted to prevent that beautiful artwork on the PF from chipping away any further. I’ll clean it with some soap/cleaning wax first and coat it with car wax afterwards.

It’s not playing just yet, I still have to clean a couple more steppers and the playfield before it’ll likely be ready for play. I’ll post back once it’s fully operational.

Thanks for the advice! I just wanted to make sure I wouldn’t make anything worse on the PF if I cleaned and waxed it. Maybe I could preserve it longer by waxing more often?

Cheers, Sean

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Pintor:

I’m not the type of person to fully restore a pin, but rather get it clean and back to playing again. I just wanted to prevent that beautiful artwork on the PF from chipping away any further. I’ll clean it with some soap/cleaning wax first and coat it with car wax afterwards.

Use NO water based cleaner on the playfield, or you risk making the planking much worse.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Use NO water based cleaner on the playfield, or you risk making the planking much worse.

Got it thanks. I’ve used this product to clean my other pins

Mothers MOW:05500Mothers 05500 California Gold Brazilian Carnauba Cleaner Wax Paste - 12 oz amazon.com link »

#28 2 years ago

Alright so I did a little digging on pinside and several pinsiders recommended gottlieb chimes over Williams due to quality of sound. Since I couldn’t find one for Williams I purchased one for gottlieb from JT Amusements. I don’t see the wiring for it in my cab but I’ll look at the schematics and find them. I also ordered a new solenoid for the coin switch (the one in the cab looks toasted), some new rubbers, and a flipper rebuild kit. I’ve got some good Carruba wax coming in tomorrow and I found a few boxes of 47 bulbs laying around. All in all I should be in good shape by the end of the week. I’ll post back after the holiday with an update

#29 2 years ago

Update- my friend and I worked on this pin all day and actually got it to run, even put in a new chime box which sounds amazing. A full game was played and after the last ball in play drained down the outhole sevaral things stopped working.

Now when the Ball goes into the outhole, the score motor runs endlessly and the ball in play won’t count down.

Also when the game is turned on, the tilt light comes on and will stay on until I manually reset the relay coil.

We Traced out the circuit, confirmed ball release coil is good.

So I’m at this point I’m at a loss and don’t understand why it played so well for one game before breaking down again.

I’d appreciate any advice you have.

Thank you!

Sean

#30 2 years ago

I wanted to add some images for further detail and sequencing.

When I the unit on, the tilt light is on and the game over relay is set In “trip.” I have to manually push the game over relay into “latch” in order to get the score reels to reset and for power to be provided to the flipper. At that point the tilt light turns off. The “balls to play” light will also reset to zero before counting back up to 5 balls.

When I put pinball in the outhole, the score motor runs endlessly and the solenoid never engages or the ball into the shooter lane. Note: I’ve tested the outhole solenoid and it works.

If I grab the ball manually from the outhole and place it in the play field, I can play a game like I normally would, the score reel works and seems to display the scores correctly.

However, when the ball drains into the outhole, the “balls to play” does not count down and again the score motor spins endlessly.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I feel like we’re so close to getting this pin up and running again. It’s my first EM and I’m definitely learning a lot.

18575D9E-3F6C-4FE2-AD41-9A2F122415CB (resized).jpeg4F8D03D5-8C33-46FA-98AD-5B93B09A8DC6 (resized).png7D63D264-D6B0-4E57-8C78-C3A1BBBF9C92 (resized).jpeg8F17183B-426E-4A68-A37A-CC85AC7DD043 (resized).png91B768B5-AAF9-4021-9560-2FB1ECF89292 (resized).pngA6107899-73E2-4E34-90C8-A6B9424BD7BE (resized).pngC4074B94-80EB-4131-864C-DF82B7F7838D (resized).jpeg
#31 2 years ago

After looking at the schematics, it looks like the game over relay is supposed to trip instead of latch when the game is turned on (correct me if I’m wrong). Which means either some other relay isn’t in trip or latch at the same time like it’s supposed to be or that some other relay isn’t in trip or latch after the game over relay is on trip. Does that sound about right?

#32 2 years ago

Related to grounding your pin and restoring your playfield. Vid1900 has guides for both as well as other guides which are very helpful.

Good luck. It's a cool machine.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-line-cords-plugs-wall-sockets-vids-guide

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

#33 2 years ago

Thanks pinballfever I will check those guides out.

I’ve been studying the manual and the relay switches a little closer and I think I could be onto something (or not, lol).

First, what does M&B mean in the pics from the manual above? I noticed it’s only mentioned in the outhole and ball index when there’s a set of 3
Contact leafs instead of 2.

Also when I look at the outhole relay and the game relay (not the game over relay) I notice that some of the 3 stack leaf contacts may be a little close. I’ll habe to try adjusting them to see if that makes any difference.

The others ones look ok to me in terms of whether or not they are supposed to be closed or open.

As always any tips or advice is well appreciated! I feel like the problem lays somewhere in these relays...

1D87BEB4-A565-4F69-BA92-E7101A4B8F2C (resized).jpeg255E66E4-C3B1-4289-B539-F9919EF124C0 (resized).jpeg3CA4803B-73E5-4379-A467-B6CE24450F6E (resized).jpeg6B499DBA-EABA-4FEC-BFA0-DDD5664E5593 (resized).jpeg7672958F-9B85-4644-B77F-F89BD1859357 (resized).jpeg9B6221F1-06EB-490D-9493-2E0FFBA4A07B (resized).jpeg9F153933-FA2E-4681-977B-0811C36CA698 (resized).jpegB76D45D2-BDA3-4E40-9694-0CB0C714B367 (resized).jpeg
2 weeks later
#34 1 year ago

Resolved! Thanks everyone for the time you took to post and all of the advice you gave. I learned so much from it. It’s an amazing feeling to take something that sat in a garage unused for 20+ years and get it playing again.

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