It's an internet forum. Critique is implied.

We all love pinball. We love pinball so much we want machines and companies making them to succeed. Since we're also the consumers of these games, our input ultimately benefits the creators.

There's plenty of other posts about people making cool custom games (Lin's Haunted Cruise thread comes to mind), as well. I'm personally critical of the art because this is a theme I would really like to be done well, as I really love the Mythbusters.

Well first of all, it's just a stupid fallacy that if you're not making your own pinball machine you can't critique one.

Secondly, many of the people doing the critiquing (myself included) are graphic professionals in one way or another, with active day jobs, contributing our graphic talents publicly in one fashion or another. So not just armchair quarterbacks.

Thirdly, at least speaking for myself, I'm working on my third alt translite design right now for the community (I only sell them on Pinside) and so I'd like to think that I'm being some kind of "creative force" for pinball.

It's a cool idea for a theme but will be crippled by the art.

Art is the easiest thing to change/fix on a game.

But, but, my CC Web Design degree circa 2002 said that drop shadows are king!!!

I think two fair for us to give our opinion on an item we're going to be asked 5 grand+ for. This isn't a bag of potato chips.

Sorry Ben, the rolling stones translite is not acceptable. It truly is a shame.

And those letters you made can be made in paint by a 5 year old, not in 20 minutes but 5. Plus it does not fit the theme at all. I agree the EOD letters they used can be better readable, but it fits the theme better.

Oh thank God. Back to normalcy.

(Which is not to say I necessarily like benheck's title.)

I assume I'll get nothing but vile slung my way for this, but I fired up paint.net and did a couple tweaks to the backglass.
Since I am just editing the file SkitB posted here, it's hard to accomplish much, and like I said I'm not an artist. However, I think it's a little easier to read the title, and the "prefix" to the title. Also, be sure to click it and see the full sized one, since the shrink down makes it worse.
my minor tweaks

Once you see the fingers on the giant robot on the translite, you can't unsee them

Huey Lewis and the News was right... sometimes Bad is Bad.

i seriously can't look at this translite.

Agreed.. If i paid $500 for a game like this it would be to bang the ball around for a while and then sell it. No way I would have that thing in my house. It just that terrible.

Congrats on your Emmy in 2009. Also congrats to Charlie Sheen for his Emmy for Best Actor in "Two and a half men", and Matt LeBlanc for his Emmy as "outstanding lead actor" in Friends.

Sorry bro, I could not resist. Too tempting.

Look who's making it personal? I just don't think FG is a standard by which creativity and graphic design should be judged. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you don't have nice colors. I'm just saying, the series is boilerplate.

By the way, you know I don't dislike FG. I really enjoy a lot of the show. Again, you seem to have lost the ability to recognize shades of gray and not look at things as black/white, love/hate. FG is well done for what it is.

It's a shame Greg, that you are becoming like the people you used to loathe. You now become incredibly hostile when someone has the nerve to not agree with you. Just deal with it. Two people disagree. I'm not insulted that you don't agree with me, and you shouldn't be insulted that I don't agree with you (or feel that FG is a standard to which I would compare as the pinnacle of acceptable graphic design). We disagree.

Actually, it's not that we even disagree on the topic at hand. I have said I think some of the criticism is valid. I just think it's a bit harsh and premature in terms of declaring the artwork a complete failure.

Simple as that. Nothing personal.

I recognize there's a big contingent of people who seem to think pinball "has to be a certain way." Playfields have to be laid out a certain way. Displays have to be a certain way. Backglasses have to be a certain way, or else it's crap or "not pinball." That's fine. Me, however, I like to see different stuff. I like to see designers try something new, and I'd prefer to not grab my pitchfork and torch and run after them until they're at least been given a chance to try and fail.

Never said it was. You injected it into this conversation to invalidate my criticism.

Look in the mirror, hypocrite. I posted valid criticism of a poor art package. You brought my career into it. Now I'm loathesome for having a retort? YOU'RE becoming like the people YOU used to loathe on RGP.

FG has ZERO to do with this conversation. ZERO. Other than to "out me" as a shitty artist, therefore invalidating my critique. Do I get to bring up your music & audio career during conversations about pinball audio? It's irrelevant!

They showed us the art. It's terrible. It's a complete failure. Nothing premature about saying so. If they hire a new artist and redo it, we can re-evaluate.

Except that you made it 100% personal. Hypocrite.

I find enough room to agree with, and thumb up, both of you. Man I must be <edited> up.

_{Post edited by moderator: Vulgarity}

Welcome to the club!

Heading there...image-1.jpg

That stuff is hard to get!!

Just wanted to add: Family Guy is AWESOME! Easily one of my top 10 favorite shows of all time. So hilarious. Also, love the pin. A good friend of mine has one and I play it all the time.

Sorry if this is off topic, but someone brought it up for some reason, so I figured I'd share my opinion!

Just wow. Embarrassing. I hope you have an excuse like you were wasted or something. I would hate to think you were just being a jerk to be a jerk. Seriously not cool, but hey, you said all that in fun with a positive attitude right?

I don't think that Rarehero and Seth MacFarlane are the same person, so your opinion of the show he contributes to have no bearing on the work he does as a professional for Family Guy. It's like saying "I hate the Yankees therefore anybody who works for the Yankees in any capacity sucks and deserves to be mocked".

Transformers, the 2007 movie, was nominated for Oscars in visual effects and sound editing and mixing. I have many harsh things to say about that movie, but that doesn't mean I take a crap on the professionals who earned those oscar noms. Who would? Only trolls and idiots.

The majority of people think this art sucks, therefore it sucks.

The conversation we should be having is what sort of style they can fix it with.

As Aurich mentions, they used two different styles of shading, crosshatch and gradient. Which would we prefer?

It's pretty clear I think that Kevin digs comic book art. Hey, me too, sounds great. Here's my personal take: this is a modern machine, not a throwback like Predator. So bring the comic book art into the present.

This isn't a panel from a comic, this is the cover. The state of comic book art has been elevated since the Data East days. Why not find a comic cover artist, almost all of which do freelance illustration, and see what kind of rates they charge?

Just for example, in a super brief search I found this cover:

batgirl_no__33_by_alexgarner-d7fo0i9.jpg

I picked it just because the hand in the background reminded me of the dummy hands. It's by Alex Garner. He has a website:

http://www.alexgarner.com

He does freelance work, and has a contact form. Some really solid work, great motion and energy. Why not find out his rates? Or someone else, he was literally the first person I pulled out of a hat, the point is people are out there and you can find them. Rock that comic book vibe, but do it with a serious illustrator.

One of the most true statements ever out into words. Even if they were not celebs at all, such as fictional characters in an original theme I would want to be able to look at at and say "I get what these guys are about". In most cases I can just look at the old backglasses on ancient EMs and they tell a story. I don't have to have been around in their time or know who they were.

Way to go, Rarehero.

Yea, those hands are ... ug.

Hands (and a girl's face) are the hardest things for a non-established artist to draw (and for real artists as well).

Its funny when you see artwork with the character's hands in his pocket, or obstructed by something else.. you can see the artist gave up on the hands or didn't want to draw them. Find that all over the place.

Aurich, that guy does do some phenomenal work. Nice pick.

Dummies could be like this then.....

Batgirl_30_Cover.jpg

Rocafort...Great Comic Artist.
https://twitter.com/Mitografia
http://mitografia.tumblr.com/

deaf2ae841a5ee9099054de800b56bcf.jpg

The 90's called they want their drop shadows back LOL

Wow! Expert of Dangerous pinball package arrived today!

crash_01.JPG

Love the artwork.

That is what I thought the license was for about 3 seconds when watching their reveal video.

I asked here and in other threads. No answers.

Okay, that Alex Garner can draw. Real life-like on some of his pics. You want a good artist? Open just about any comic book.

That one with Jim's pistol on Barbara's back as she's taking off her mask is gorgeous.

Video of Adam at ComiCon.

I think if they renamed it Dangerous Science it would sound a lot better. The title sounds complete in just two words. People would know straight away what it is all about.

Put some nice hand drawn graphics into the mix with lots of explosions and some busty women and they could be onto something.

You can call it anything you want but no one is going to care one bit until Predators hit homes !

I'm late to this and mostly skimmed the thread, but what they need to call it is Mythbusters.

When I saw the title in the thread (well, after reading it 4 times to try to wrap my head around the grammar), the connotation was something like No Fear. I think they need to just treat this whole thing from art to title as a swing and a miss and start it over.

The theme is solid, there is a ton of great stuff to pull from Mythbusters. They're always using cannon's and projectiles, which really lends itself to cool pinball tricks.

Wow. Too bad no one thought of that, huh?

lolll
-mof

Yea, it is. I guess I didn't read through enough of you getting nutty over other legit criticisms of this game.

Don't take it personally. The market is suddenly competitive, and hopefully they're open to objective opinions so they can get it on track before wasting too much time and money on what they currently have. Just paying a real artist to start over would be a 90% improvement.

Or "Experts in Danger".

"Experts in Dangerous" is a weak title.
"Dangerous Science" is a strong title.

Allow me to explain why...

Many of you have already criticized the grammar aspect of the title, and I can't agree more. I know it's 2014, and 'peepl are 2 fond of bad grammer lolllz' thanks to thumb-texting short messages, but that doesn't mean we have to give up on good grammar outside of texting, especially in the title of something great like a pinball game -- a permanent piece of american art history.

I have a problem with how this title makes me FEEL. I like when entertainment engages my imagination, especially when a TITLE can accomplish this on its own.

The word EXPERT doesn't engage my imagination. It's a very closed-door factual word, that feels like, "Here's someone who knows most everything about a topic" -- in fact, it's almost the opposite idea to me as "imagination" -- it's like "all knowing"

And so we have this "all knowing" word, "Expert" which is being juxtaposed with a word that actually *does* elicit my imagination, "dangerous". Dangerous is a nice adjective that makes me wonder... "How dangerous is it, actually?"

So to me it's putting hot with cold, and the result is luke-warm....

"Dangerous Science" on the other hand...

That put's two imagination-eliciting words together. I think that's the best suggestion I've heard so far.

-mof

Maybe they should just call it BUSTER
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/bios/mythbusters-meet-buster.htm

A better title for people who are experts in (solving difficult situations that may be dangerous) are what... ?

1. Men in Black: The Men in Black are mysteriously pushing back against a problem you don't want to deal with: Aliens. GREAT title, leaves your mind open to wonder who they are and what they are fighting against...

2. Ghostbusters: Not as mysterious as Men in Black, because now we are thinking about people "just busting" ghosts. Nothing more or less, just ... well ... busting them. Decent title, a bit cheesy, but it stuck with us over the years...

3. ? Can you think of more titles that imply experts solving tough situations ?

Now, if this title is about crash test dummies, then I can't see a good reason to not include that idea in the title somehow. Closer to a "Terminator: Rise of the Machines" -- something that implies zombies/robots/alien uprising that must be squelched by cops/armed forces/professionals...

-mof

Maybe they should call it D.O.A

Just thought I'd post an extract of the chat Kevin Kulek kindly gave us for Episode 8 of the Pinheadz PODcast.

https://soundcloud.com/pinheadz/pinheadz-podcast-8-kevin-kulek-eod-edit

Kevin gave us an in depth interview (36mins) where he discussed MYTHBUSTERS/EOD, FUNHOUSE 2.0 & PREDATOR. The extract above is part of the EOD segment...hope you can take a listen. Cheers Rod

There may be more to the Experts of Dangerous story than we know...

http://www.eonline.com/news/571864/mythbusters-stars-kari-byron-tory-belleci-and-grant-imahara-are-leaving-the-show

That's weird. It is known the production schedule for that show is intense, that is why they brought them on in the first place. I wonder if the episodes are being cut back? That is the only explanation of getting rid of the help.

I watched the show last night and was stunned to hear that. There's no official word on why (yet), but I'm guessing it's a cost cutting measure.