I think that's the one I bought last year ...... it's gone now

There's no magnet, there's a spinner...also the awesome freethrow saucer that Space Jam didn't have. I wouldn't call NBA a re-theme of Space Jam, but Borg clearly took the Space Jam design and tweaked it into NBA. There are enough differences in design & rules to make them different games. Same with Austin Powers & Iron Man...same starting point, but different games. Family Guy to Shrek is a legit re-theme.

I have to go with the other poster that said Rolling Stones LE. That run ended so quick because it still had Mick on a stick. I bet it's true that only 150ish were made.

Thanks for the insight Keith. Always interesting to hear from insiders.

I wonder how many Pros were made ....we often hear "birdies" with approx numbers for most games....I feel like there haven't been any rumors of Stones Pro numbers...hmmm..

Strictly guessing. I think there were about 1k pros made. Stern really ramped up for the celebration launch (it appeared to me anyway). They really thought they had a hot title until it hit the community and bombed. My wife and I rushed to buy one when we learned an electronics place had one on hand near by. Once there we were disappointed and disgusted. Btw, my wife is a big stones fan. we have not missed a concert tour in our 25 years of marriage! Anyway, the game was awful and we walked. Then the LE rumors hit and we were patient and hoping that stick mick was gone or at least 3D. Did not happen so we passed.

I really believe the Stones LE is the most rare Stern pin.

Mick on a stick...isn't that one of ventriloquist Jeff Dunham's characters?

I have a Stones LE and it's far from an awful game. Sure it's not a technical wonder or anything, but the gameplay is fast and fun, rules are like IM/Tron/Avatar but a bit deeper, and the music rocks! Mick on a stick is conceptually stupid but in terms of gameplay - he's a moving target that makes things fun and random....there are solid rules logic behind his movement.

Never did I say,"awful" about LE. I never played LE.

I really liked RSLE.....but everytime I tried to play it at the arcade the ball would get stuck somewhere or some other malfunction would prevent me from finishing a game. I finally gave up and never put money in it again.

There are several other models with much lower runs, including most "The Pin" runs

But not to derail the thread, the OP was very specific: "Multiple models of the same game aggregate together: ACDC pro, premium, LE, Luci, and pro LED are all just ACDC for this discussion."

How about the "Avengers Pin"? Has anyone ever seen one of these outside of CES?

I have one local to me. It is hardly a terrible game, just a bad theme IMO. The shots are fun and the layout is pretty good. It's probably a low production number title, but not really as low as some of the others mentioned. I only say that because I've seen this one in the wild, never for a 24/CSI/BBH.

They had one at Arcade Expo a few weeks back. Really odd looking, but fun to play.

Wonder what the run was on those two "Pin" titles?

More than 400 in two runs.

http://www.ipsnd.net/View.aspx?id=5668

The top cluster shown is too big. LE numbers fall within that cluster. They built about 400 pros first, then the LE's, then a few more pros. 11 TRS' have sold on ebay (since 20011). Currently 3 pros on location in Portland and two pros and an LE out here in the bay area. I have the GC on the LE, last time I checked.

Only Gary Stern and his accountant know the real numbers, but you can take a decent educated guess using the tools out there. No rumors needed.

1. Pinside owner list
2. Serial number database
3. Boston pinball
4. Pinballmap.com (start in Portland)

I agree that only a handful of people really know production numbers like the Investors, Gary,Gomez, Jim, and maybe Shelly. I would not use 1-4 because they are limited to the overall sample of the population. If I were to guess what numbers exist I would use sales data. How many times do you see a particular title "up for sale" both domestic and international. I search all over the US everyday looking for deals (like many do). I have been observing craigslist and ebay pinball machines for sale constantly. I have began to learn where the most machines for sale are located and the prices that reflect the region. Based on my obsessive neurotic findings I would "guess" or estimate the following in terms of the rarest Sterns:

1. Batman Standard/ Iron Man Classic-Placed in limited retail locations as test market. They did not sale. My guess-50 or less for each title before they pulled the plug.
2. Avengers Premium-After distributors in US could not sell their LE inventory.My guess-100 were shipped to China and overseas.
3. NBA-My guess is 50 domestic-most ended up in Canada and 100-overseas.
4. NFL-My guess is 100 domestic and 100 overseas
5. Harley Davidson 3rd Edition-My guess less then 100, not sure on overseas?
6.Rolling Stones LE-My guess less than 100 domestic-not sure on overseas? Also Stern is known to use random numbers from a run on machines. Just because someone has 398 out of 400 does not mean that Stern made all 400.
7. Wheel Of Fortune-My guess 300 domestic, not sure on overseas-Many went on route and got trashed. HUO WOF's are rare.
8. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-My guess 200 domestic, and 100 overseas
9. CSI,24 all produced in the dog days of Stern. My guess is 500 total for each domestic and overseas.
10. The pin-both Transformers and Avengers-My guess 500 of each-many went overseas.
11. High Roller Casino-My guess 500 domestic, many went on route, not sure on overseas
12. BBH-My guess is several runs equal to 1000 total.
13. Iron Man-My guess is 1100 on initial runs then VE with two runs of 200.
14. Mustang-Not sure on this one because it is still too new. Who knows how many distributors are still sitting on them and how many Stern still has. They are available everywhere for sale, not sure if that reflects production numbers or just a title that people tend to unload?

My guesses are based on daily searches for machines-nothing else. When I see a machine pop up that is rare-I take note. I really have no-idea what machines come up for sale in Europe and overseas. If anyone from overseas has an opinion based on sales and searches-please give us your opinion or "guesses" based on where you live and how often you see these rare titles pop up.

You are welcome. Keep in mind this is a single viewer's opinion - no inside information on imports:

- NBA: never seen.
- 24: very rare : seen it once (and liked it)
- CSI: rare.
- BBH: uncommon. played it several times
- WoF, Elvis: less uncommon
- most recent Sterns (including TWD, Mustang, ST, and likely WWE): decent number of games show up on location.
- Transformers, X-men, ACDC: frequent
- All LE: never seen on location - no op here would spend that amount of cash on a machine to be routed. Played a RSLE recently, fun game (but I could not master the double flipper buttons!)

The double flippers take some time to get used to. When you have learned to use two flipper buttons, it throws you off with four. It is all about timing as well. You have to time the pop ups and anticipate ball drains, which can be difficult at times because of the speed and flow of RSLE.

What about High Roller Casino? Where did that sit in production numbers (edit: nevermind, someone on here who actually might know got pissed and moved on since you guys started bashing him. Go figure). You don't see that one around very much. Heck, I just saw and played one in person about a year ago...

Jaz

here in New England I've sold a bbh, and a csi to operators to put on location. At some point I'll get them all back when they have made enough money on them. The betson here in New England had a nba I'm not sure where it went after leaving the show room floor but I know the guy who would know.

@pinmaster:
If you primarily look at "internet and local sales" for your estimates, there will often be duplicate machines sold. While I appreciate sharing of personal experience with how often you are encountering machines, limiting your assessment to only that, is a far less accurate way to get a real estimate on machines that are actually out there. What about the 50% of all the Stern machines (ever made) that are not currently in the US?

I'll say this. Selling my Csi to PMWOLF back in the day was a dumb move. Especially since I sold it for like 2700 bucks huo. Oh the 3600 nib shipped days *sigh*

Like I said they are purely guesses as is everyone else's opinion in this thread. There really is no accurate way to "guess" production numbers. Again I look all over the US not just local. I have also watched rare titles being sold and traded and yes there is duplication with for sale ads. I sold a HUO WOF last year and have watched it change owners three times now. I would like to know a more accurate way of trying to guess-please tell me. Also like I said I really have no idea on overseas sales and thus my guesses could be skewed. Another contradiction in comparing for sale ads is the collector who never sells. There could be considerably more out there that are fixtures on location and in homes. We are talking from 2001 to present so chances are there are many machines that still have original owner and never come up for sale.

Seems like the ipsnd is the only real way to estimate. Everything else is anecdotal.

For games with very low runs, like TRS LE and NFL, there isn't enough data at ipsnd.

Many here are suggesting CSI is the lowest run game. The Portland pinball map shows 6 CSI's and only two NBA's. So I think it's safe to assume there are more CSI's out there than there are NBA's. Boston pinball breaks out sales of NFL's by team. Ipsnd lists some teams, but not all, and not many serial numbers. Ipsnd also contains errors, like the cluster I mentioned earlier with overlapping LE numbers. Ipsnd is probably the best tool, but it's certainly not the only tool.

Stargazer

How does that support your theory? A distributor might have gotten 6 csi's but only ordered 2 nba's. One city's routed game is a very tiny dataset to draw a conclusion from.

Guarantee the new "winner" here will be WNBJM...less than 100 units.

Might be the only good thing about the show or him. I have met him several times and he is an idiot. I will not say any more. Also hates Hockey which is my favorite, big boring baseball fan for the most part.

I've played them all on route.
1 NBA was at Shorty's in Seattle when it came out,
NBA is big, maybe a good amount shipped over seas?
Not BBH
Not CSI
Doubt WOF bout I could be wrong...
Maybe 24

To me NFL doesn't could as it's a re-theme...

I've got one thing to say about Avengers Premium,
probably at this moment, there are more in dealers' inventories than in customers homes still.

Whatever I am looking to buy seems to be the rarest machine ever made (lol).

Stern Cue is < Stargazer. they made 6.

-c

I know that Rolling Stones LE is a pretty rare game, but I was wondering why isn't the normal version of Rolling Stones called Rolling Stones Pro? Instead it's just called "Rolling Stones" without being designated as "Pro". Why is this exactly? Didn't want to start a whole new thread topic to ask that question, so figured I would ask it here.

Because when they came out with the LE there wasn't a concept of a pro. That came later. Just like there is no LOTR Pro.

Why are so many people still suggesting games that had multiple versions. For the sake of this discussion, avengers pro, le and premium are all the same game. Just avengers.

Kinda like saying there is only a few mm or taf in your area so must be rarer than csi.

That's interesting, and I guess the same could be said of Spider-man and Avatar which both had LE versions. However, Rolling Stones was released in February 2011 and Tron: Legacy Pro came out in May 2011, so there was only 3 months separating them. Plus the LE versions of both those games came out in June 2011. So I guess the idea of naming the standard version of a game as "Pro" came about immediately after they were done with Rolling Stones. Also the "Pro" in Big Buck Hunter Pro from 2010 is simply part of the title of that game and not a designation as a "Pro" model I take it? That must be the case as there was no LE of that game, but it kind of adds to the confusion a bit.

It was in 2009, and for $3000 even.

(I had to look it up).

You were always hot to get the next NIB Stern, though....I don't think you hung on to any of them for very long.

Pete